DC Winter Outlaw Series
Moderators: Jonathan Harms, Ron Barbagallo, Maria Carrasco, Russel Cantor, Lynn Kramer, Brian Parsons
-
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Leesburg, Virginia
The weather looks good for the 2nd race of the DC Winter Outlaw Series this Saturday, December 7th.
The race location is the Park and Ride lot in Gaithersburg MD.
Longboard practice will start at 10am and racing will start at 10:30.
Traditional slalom practice will start at 12pm and racing at 1pm.
Spec class racing will start immediately after the traditional slalom.
No entry fee. Skate at your own risk.
Courses will be hybrid and easy enough for all ability levels. Everyone is welcome.
Directions to P&R:
Go north on 270 to exit 10 (Clopper Road). Turn right at second traffic light onto Quince Orchard rd. Go to 2nd traffic light and turn right into the P&R lot. We will be in the upper left corner.
The race location is the Park and Ride lot in Gaithersburg MD.
Longboard practice will start at 10am and racing will start at 10:30.
Traditional slalom practice will start at 12pm and racing at 1pm.
Spec class racing will start immediately after the traditional slalom.
No entry fee. Skate at your own risk.
Courses will be hybrid and easy enough for all ability levels. Everyone is welcome.
Directions to P&R:
Go north on 270 to exit 10 (Clopper Road). Turn right at second traffic light onto Quince Orchard rd. Go to 2nd traffic light and turn right into the P&R lot. We will be in the upper left corner.
-
- Moscow-Washington
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
Brian,
in addition to what’s cooking I’m going to try to set up (mark) a 100-cone course on the left side of the Park and Ride in the morning. Cones might wait till the last moment, so that we don’t attract attention more then usual. I propose a couple of practice runs and two timed runs for each interested participant. It’s safe to assume that most people would prefer to try it after the main race. Mitch said he’d test and bring his timer.
What do you think?
Vlad.
in addition to what’s cooking I’m going to try to set up (mark) a 100-cone course on the left side of the Park and Ride in the morning. Cones might wait till the last moment, so that we don’t attract attention more then usual. I propose a couple of practice runs and two timed runs for each interested participant. It’s safe to assume that most people would prefer to try it after the main race. Mitch said he’d test and bring his timer.
What do you think?
Vlad.
-
- 1961-2013 (RIP)
- Posts: 3279
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
I won't be there, but I will throw this out. When Vlad and I were running straight cones on that side of the parking lot in July, it was filthy! About a third of the way down it was covered in broken glass, pebbles, sand, etc. Seems that lane isn't tended to quite as much as the traditional side.
Unless something has changed dramatically in the past four months, I might suggest that someone bring a gas-powered blower. I have a feeling, though, that with the rain and weather this fall, more debris and trash has washed down on to that side of the lot off that embankment.
Unless something has changed dramatically in the past four months, I might suggest that someone bring a gas-powered blower. I have a feeling, though, that with the rain and weather this fall, more debris and trash has washed down on to that side of the lot off that embankment.
-
- Moscow-Washington
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2002 1:00 am
- Contact:
-
- Moscow-Washington
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
-
- WesE
- Posts: 566
- Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: northern Virginia, suburb of DC, USA
-
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Leesburg, Virginia
-
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Leesburg, Virginia
DC Winter Outlaw Series Pre-Party.
Im having a party at my place Friday Night the 6th. I want everyone to come out and get all worked up for the race that may or may not happen on Saturday.
Don't bring anything. I have all of the necessary refreshments.
Big portable halfpipe for the backyard. Redskins cheerleaders are offering massages for those that need a little workout before slalom racing. We will also have the 100 cone course set up in the street in front of my house. Slappy will be spinning Bobo's new CD, "Hair, it's not just for breakfast anymore". WesE will be modeling the latest in water storage devices. LBK will be....Well, he's a kook so you never know what he will be doing.
It will be a blast. Hope everyone can make it. Email me for directions.
Im having a party at my place Friday Night the 6th. I want everyone to come out and get all worked up for the race that may or may not happen on Saturday.
Don't bring anything. I have all of the necessary refreshments.
Big portable halfpipe for the backyard. Redskins cheerleaders are offering massages for those that need a little workout before slalom racing. We will also have the 100 cone course set up in the street in front of my house. Slappy will be spinning Bobo's new CD, "Hair, it's not just for breakfast anymore". WesE will be modeling the latest in water storage devices. LBK will be....Well, he's a kook so you never know what he will be doing.
It will be a blast. Hope everyone can make it. Email me for directions.
-
- Moscow-Washington
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
Where is Riordon? Dave Riordon? The very groovy Kook? Somebody draggim here or something. We’ve got to discuss our Virtual Slalom Deal at the Vans. I can bring a broom tomorrow and test the waters. Brian, can you bring the timer just in case?
We really need Dave to negotiate with the Vans Administration though. The sooner-the faster.
Slalom party? With Warsteiner? Ja! I’m Zooooh Zee-ah! Most Fridays before the race....no comment...it’s really foggy.
We really need Dave to negotiate with the Vans Administration though. The sooner-the faster.
Slalom party? With Warsteiner? Ja! I’m Zooooh Zee-ah! Most Fridays before the race....no comment...it’s really foggy.
-
- Noah
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: NJ
-
- 1961-2013 (RIP)
- Posts: 3279
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
Well, I won't be there (he says once again,) but here's my suggestion: perchance Mr. Bittner could ride by the P&R around sundown and give an update?
I'm assuming the problem is if melting snow around the asphalt will cause run off that will keep everything wet? Maybe Andy could take a look tonight and give an opinion of whether or not tomorrow will be decent?
I'm assuming the problem is if melting snow around the asphalt will cause run off that will keep everything wet? Maybe Andy could take a look tonight and give an opinion of whether or not tomorrow will be decent?
-
- Moscow-Washington
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
Guys and Ilva-Dear,
it is very unlikely that we’re skating tomorrow. Most parking lots around here are a mess.
I can’t speak for the P&R, but similar lots around Langley and Burke are nothing but ice. And if there is no ice, it’s nothing but salt and sand.
Hopefully our administration will join soon and light the light (or whatever).
it is very unlikely that we’re skating tomorrow. Most parking lots around here are a mess.
I can’t speak for the P&R, but similar lots around Langley and Burke are nothing but ice. And if there is no ice, it’s nothing but salt and sand.
Hopefully our administration will join soon and light the light (or whatever).
-
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Yea, it is looking bad for a race tomorrow. We have two options.
1. Shovel the lot and race on the ice and snow pack.
2. Postpone until next weekend.
I have some new Avalons equiped with 1 inch spikes. So I am ready to race. But since everyone else would consider this an unfair advantage it is best to postpone the race until December 14th.
However if anyone wants to do a renegade session in a parking garage on Saturday I will be there.
Snowboarding Sunday with LBK and John D.
1. Shovel the lot and race on the ice and snow pack.
2. Postpone until next weekend.
I have some new Avalons equiped with 1 inch spikes. So I am ready to race. But since everyone else would consider this an unfair advantage it is best to postpone the race until December 14th.
However if anyone wants to do a renegade session in a parking garage on Saturday I will be there.
Snowboarding Sunday with LBK and John D.
-
- Noah
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: NJ
-
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Sydney, OZ
Bummer about the weather. i was looking forward to riding a slalom course again, it's been a while...
Don't think i can make it next weekend. I'll catch you all in the new year! i'm bringing my board and some cones back to norway for christmas, introduce some norskies to the joys of slalom!
peace,
haggy
Don't think i can make it next weekend. I'll catch you all in the new year! i'm bringing my board and some cones back to norway for christmas, introduce some norskies to the joys of slalom!
peace,
haggy
-
- 1961-2013 (RIP)
- Posts: 3279
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
-
- GBJ
- Posts: 394
- Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Yeah... I'm a little tardy getting back to you with the current ski conditions at the Park and Race, but I can assure you there's going to be no slalom skateboarding in that parking lot tomorrow. Frankly, everybody should be keeping there eyes open for any reasonable alternative. I will check the plow pattern they followed at the Park and Ride, but if they pushed much of it up to and off of the top of the lot, we're likely to be screwed for a while, melt-wise. I saw plowed piles of snow around parking lots that were between 10-15' tall. Right now, given the condition of the road outside of my home, I'd be stunned if the Park and Ride could even support a race NEXT week.
-
- GBJ
- Posts: 394
- Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Gaithersburg, MD
To my considerable amazement, I am very happy to report that it looks like the Park and Ride will be ready for racing next weekend. That is, barring any further winter weather. The race side of the lot is almost ready today, and the drainage from the snow piles finds its' way quickly to the gutter. The 100-cone side is going to be considerably more of a problem.
Hello my DC family.....well I'm here, I made it....my second post...see I'm shooting for a little photo....stoked to find you all, I've been out in left field, look'n for the ball...But now I'm home...I wish we had a B-More board...anyway the second of many post from me....lets see how long it takes for me to get into it with a kook....Just play'n positive vibrations.....
Hey how was the DC outlaw winter party series#1...? You didn't set up a ts course in BP's did ya????
Cabbage
Hey how was the DC outlaw winter party series#1...? You didn't set up a ts course in BP's did ya????
Cabbage
-
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Leesburg, Virginia
The forecast is for 80% rain today and 60% rain tomorrow morning. So it looks like another postponement of the #2 winter series race. Unfortunately several guys have other obligations that would prevent them from making a Sunday race. If enough of you guys want to race on Sunday let me know. I know that at least half of the guys will not be able to make it. Some are snow boarding, family obligation etc.
However if it is dry on Sunday and you guys who want to have a race that is not a point’s race I will be there to lay it down. I am sure that with all of the rain the snowboarding this weekend will also be a bust.
If anyone who is lurking on this board who wants to get into slalom racing. Show up at one of the races and see what it is all about.
Directions: 270N to exit 10 (Clopper Rd). Goto 2nd traffic light turn right onto Quince Orchard Rd, goto 2nd traffic light and turn right into the P&R lot. We will be in the upper right corner.
However if it is dry on Sunday and you guys who want to have a race that is not a point’s race I will be there to lay it down. I am sure that with all of the rain the snowboarding this weekend will also be a bust.
If anyone who is lurking on this board who wants to get into slalom racing. Show up at one of the races and see what it is all about.
Directions: 270N to exit 10 (Clopper Rd). Goto 2nd traffic light turn right onto Quince Orchard Rd, goto 2nd traffic light and turn right into the P&R lot. We will be in the upper right corner.
-
- Noah
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: NJ
-
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Leesburg, Virginia
-
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Denver
Since the cold weather has got the DC Outlaw Race on hold, can we HEAT THINGS UP by discussing a few topics?
1. What defines a longboard for longboard slalom? Brian what are the size rules this series? Keep in mind that there are some high-tech hybrid longboards out there now but are they really longboards or just “GS boards” the racers are trying to pawn off as longboards?
2. How about head-to-head longboard slalom racing? I would love to see the Team Known guys going head to head. Me & Steeb got things to settle.
3. Any thought on the start process for head-to-head racing? I still like the idea of using a rubber band like Jack did at his Cambria Race. Ur13, look at the video of that race because I would like to see your comments. Or does everyone want to let me keep on getting away with cheating on my starts?
4. Spec class racing update.
5. How about a "Rookie" class for all ages where you decide when it is time to graduate on out. That way the new inexperienced racers get more than just two qualifying runs and cone duty. The Rookie races could be seeded randomly in their own race just so it could be anybody winning the Rookie race that day.
6. How to move things along faster at the races? Use computers? Assign permanent random bib numbers? Post a sheet of written rules at the race location.
7. How about giving away a donated prize each race via a “rally slalom” during practice? Closest time to a set moderate to slow time wins the prize? Anything could be given out as a prize such as T-shirts, second equipment, slightly used equipment, etc.
DC Crew, let the debates begin!
1. What defines a longboard for longboard slalom? Brian what are the size rules this series? Keep in mind that there are some high-tech hybrid longboards out there now but are they really longboards or just “GS boards” the racers are trying to pawn off as longboards?
2. How about head-to-head longboard slalom racing? I would love to see the Team Known guys going head to head. Me & Steeb got things to settle.
3. Any thought on the start process for head-to-head racing? I still like the idea of using a rubber band like Jack did at his Cambria Race. Ur13, look at the video of that race because I would like to see your comments. Or does everyone want to let me keep on getting away with cheating on my starts?
4. Spec class racing update.
5. How about a "Rookie" class for all ages where you decide when it is time to graduate on out. That way the new inexperienced racers get more than just two qualifying runs and cone duty. The Rookie races could be seeded randomly in their own race just so it could be anybody winning the Rookie race that day.
6. How to move things along faster at the races? Use computers? Assign permanent random bib numbers? Post a sheet of written rules at the race location.
7. How about giving away a donated prize each race via a “rally slalom” during practice? Closest time to a set moderate to slow time wins the prize? Anything could be given out as a prize such as T-shirts, second equipment, slightly used equipment, etc.
DC Crew, let the debates begin!
lbk
-
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Lima, Peru-G'burg MD
- Contact:
Hey I found the party! In response to LBK's post, how about a B-Class and a middle of the pack promotion relegation to determine which class the middle riders will race in. This way middle-aged middle of the pack guys could get more runs .
Haven't skated since WV but I tested my timer and it's up and running. I also have an old laptop up and running, the sun is coming out, no gas to drive to VA today but I'm up for some P&R mañana.
Ciao
Haven't skated since WV but I tested my timer and it's up and running. I also have an old laptop up and running, the sun is coming out, no gas to drive to VA today but I'm up for some P&R mañana.
Ciao
LBK...
1). I think the 30" axle to axle is a good starting point for longboards. Most of what people are calling longboards now-a-days are hybrid boards at best and things like the pocket pistol 36" or 42" are more slalom (SGS) boards than longboards....eitherway I don't race longboards (yet)...so that is my 2cents
2). Head to head longboard racing...well if the P&R can support it why not but I think youa re pushing it.
3). LBK...that rubber thing of yours is sketchy. I have seen the cambria video and talked to one or two people about it....anything like that (rubber) is sketchy. Not only is it distracting but it can get caught up in ones wheels at the start. Not good. I see no problem with the way it is done now. Maybe the add a second starter whose job is to watch the line and make sure no one jumps...
4). no comment
5). I like this rookie class. But also it is good for rookies to race the top guys in the series. I learned a ton racing Kimbal last winter...you see how it helped me in the summer series.
6). The biggest thing that would move the racers along faste ris HAVING PEOPLE READY IN THE PIT for their runs. No calling people from their cars, none of that....if you are coneheading your way up the hill make sure you get to the top before your runs!!!!!!!! Trying to find people for their runs has been the main problem in slowing down the races.
7). I don't understand this...but then again I am not a prize person either.....
Also...I'm with Ohm. The 21st is doable for me but will be a pain in the ass. I just assume scratch this race all together and go to the next one (and/or make it up in feb or march when the weather is better) or postpone it to January?
Noah...save me a seat for next weekend, if it happens I'll be there. My knee is feeling much better recently.
1). I think the 30" axle to axle is a good starting point for longboards. Most of what people are calling longboards now-a-days are hybrid boards at best and things like the pocket pistol 36" or 42" are more slalom (SGS) boards than longboards....eitherway I don't race longboards (yet)...so that is my 2cents
2). Head to head longboard racing...well if the P&R can support it why not but I think youa re pushing it.
3). LBK...that rubber thing of yours is sketchy. I have seen the cambria video and talked to one or two people about it....anything like that (rubber) is sketchy. Not only is it distracting but it can get caught up in ones wheels at the start. Not good. I see no problem with the way it is done now. Maybe the add a second starter whose job is to watch the line and make sure no one jumps...
4). no comment
5). I like this rookie class. But also it is good for rookies to race the top guys in the series. I learned a ton racing Kimbal last winter...you see how it helped me in the summer series.
6). The biggest thing that would move the racers along faste ris HAVING PEOPLE READY IN THE PIT for their runs. No calling people from their cars, none of that....if you are coneheading your way up the hill make sure you get to the top before your runs!!!!!!!! Trying to find people for their runs has been the main problem in slowing down the races.
7). I don't understand this...but then again I am not a prize person either.....
Also...I'm with Ohm. The 21st is doable for me but will be a pain in the ass. I just assume scratch this race all together and go to the next one (and/or make it up in feb or march when the weather is better) or postpone it to January?
Noah...save me a seat for next weekend, if it happens I'll be there. My knee is feeling much better recently.
-
- Stahlstown, PA
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:00 am
Dave,
1. As far as the longboard length spec, 30" minimum axle to axle is good. Manufacturers are specifically building to this spec already, so I think that it would be a bad idea to change the spec again.
6. I agree with UR13, that being ready to race when it is your turn would speed things up considerably. A time limit to be "in the box" could be instituted. If you're not ready to race, you forfeit your run. I think this rule would only need to be enforced a couple of times before the consistently guilty parties would "get the message".
All of the attempts (that I have observed) to incorporate computers have created more problems than they have solved. KISS. On the other hand, I believe that communications could greatly benefit from tech. More radios for timers, record keepers, and cone marshals would help to eliminate a LOT of confusion and wasted time between runs. Especially at locations such as the P&R where traffic noise is a problem.
1. As far as the longboard length spec, 30" minimum axle to axle is good. Manufacturers are specifically building to this spec already, so I think that it would be a bad idea to change the spec again.
6. I agree with UR13, that being ready to race when it is your turn would speed things up considerably. A time limit to be "in the box" could be instituted. If you're not ready to race, you forfeit your run. I think this rule would only need to be enforced a couple of times before the consistently guilty parties would "get the message".
All of the attempts (that I have observed) to incorporate computers have created more problems than they have solved. KISS. On the other hand, I believe that communications could greatly benefit from tech. More radios for timers, record keepers, and cone marshals would help to eliminate a LOT of confusion and wasted time between runs. Especially at locations such as the P&R where traffic noise is a problem.
-
- Moscow-Washington
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
I have a 30-inch one and I like it! I can make it 36 if needed, but 30 is just fine.
The loosing-run-for-being-absent rule rules.
Ramp starts are the best. Push starts are Ok. No one likes rubber.
Instead of a second t-shirt, a dozen of stickers and a baseball cap, Brian received spec class boards from Bahne!
There will be only a couple of donated second-hand prizes. Most if not all them will come from LBK.
Con: permanent numbers.
Pro: Double Longboarding, space and time permitting.
Rabbi says I can’t race on Saturdays... Hard.
Vlad.
The loosing-run-for-being-absent rule rules.
Ramp starts are the best. Push starts are Ok. No one likes rubber.
Instead of a second t-shirt, a dozen of stickers and a baseball cap, Brian received spec class boards from Bahne!
There will be only a couple of donated second-hand prizes. Most if not all them will come from LBK.
Con: permanent numbers.
Pro: Double Longboarding, space and time permitting.
Rabbi says I can’t race on Saturdays... Hard.
Vlad.
-
- Moscow-Washington
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
Ramps could serve two purposes in DC.
Fist, and foremost, ramps could keep out-of-staters like Chris and Noah out of DC, letting the locals guys take the podium on a regular basis (I hope Noah hates ramps too).
In addition, there is an entirely different slalom world to the East of the East Coast. I heard guys there are good with ramps. It'd be good to be able to practice ramp starts.
We can help the "Launch Ramp Program" get off the ground. We have enough resources (Tim, Ohm, Slappy, LBK, BrianP and many others), hands (myself, Jeff Bozi and a few others) and brains (Eric Geezer-X, Curt Kimbel, KMG and….that's about it) to be able to build a couple of ramps to fool around.
Let's make Gathering III the absolute deadline for two wood/iron simple-construction ramps that could fit in a mid-size car. Assembly/disassembly is pain in the ass, but it just might be worth it.
I'm going to start working on prototypes in January. Anybody who's willing to help, please contact me and we'll collaborate. Ya know, like the old SU-US typo' deal.
Oh, almost forgot. Silly!
Fist, and foremost, ramps could keep out-of-staters like Chris and Noah out of DC, letting the locals guys take the podium on a regular basis (I hope Noah hates ramps too).
In addition, there is an entirely different slalom world to the East of the East Coast. I heard guys there are good with ramps. It'd be good to be able to practice ramp starts.
We can help the "Launch Ramp Program" get off the ground. We have enough resources (Tim, Ohm, Slappy, LBK, BrianP and many others), hands (myself, Jeff Bozi and a few others) and brains (Eric Geezer-X, Curt Kimbel, KMG and….that's about it) to be able to build a couple of ramps to fool around.
Let's make Gathering III the absolute deadline for two wood/iron simple-construction ramps that could fit in a mid-size car. Assembly/disassembly is pain in the ass, but it just might be worth it.
I'm going to start working on prototypes in January. Anybody who's willing to help, please contact me and we'll collaborate. Ya know, like the old SU-US typo' deal.
Oh, almost forgot. Silly!
-
- WesE
- Posts: 566
- Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: northern Virginia, suburb of DC, USA
Wes,
Please submit your full name to Mr. Trahan.
Vlad.
I like the thought of eliminating push-starts by using ramps, as the push-start is not a slalom technique. And I know how to build trasitioned ramps, though I’ve never built ones that could be set-up/taken-down quickly. But the problem I DO see with ramps is having to transport them to the race site. I’m certainly not going to be able to fit them in my tiny car. If someone can volunteer to transport them, we could build them specifically to fit in their vehicle.
To the comments about people not being at the start box when they’re supposed to be, I ask what you propose to change this. How would people know when their heat is coming up without having someone tell them about it? People need to be coneheading on the way back up the hill (right???). I don’t know of any instance when people acknowledged that they knew their heat was coming up and then wasted time getting in place.
Regarding longboard spec, I agree that 30” axle to axle is a far cry from being a longboard. I doubt that the people that the longboard class was designed for will be showing up with Roe Bonitas.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vlad Popov on 2002-12-17 16:40 ]</font>
Please submit your full name to Mr. Trahan.
Vlad.
I like the thought of eliminating push-starts by using ramps, as the push-start is not a slalom technique. And I know how to build trasitioned ramps, though I’ve never built ones that could be set-up/taken-down quickly. But the problem I DO see with ramps is having to transport them to the race site. I’m certainly not going to be able to fit them in my tiny car. If someone can volunteer to transport them, we could build them specifically to fit in their vehicle.
To the comments about people not being at the start box when they’re supposed to be, I ask what you propose to change this. How would people know when their heat is coming up without having someone tell them about it? People need to be coneheading on the way back up the hill (right???). I don’t know of any instance when people acknowledged that they knew their heat was coming up and then wasted time getting in place.
Regarding longboard spec, I agree that 30” axle to axle is a far cry from being a longboard. I doubt that the people that the longboard class was designed for will be showing up with Roe Bonitas.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vlad Popov on 2002-12-17 16:40 ]</font>
-
- 1961-2013 (RIP)
- Posts: 3279
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
[quote]
On 2002-12-17 16:12, WesE wrote:
I like the thought of eliminating push-starts by using ramps, as the push-start is not a slalom technique.>>
Wes,
Dan't take this the wrong way, but you are completely wrong. Trust me, I read Henry Hester's Skate Tip on Crow Hop starting so many times to know that push starts are the ESSENCE of slalom skateboarding.
Ramps and push starts are different, but just coming out and announcing that a push start isn't a part of slalom is too extreme not to be challenged. Right now my pump is weak, my equipment is tired and my physique is not up to the challenge of doing what it takes to win. My start, though, is one area of racing that has not only maintained over the years, I actually picked it up a notch this year racing duals.
Nope. Sorry. Anytime I read where the trend is starting that you got to have a ramp to have a race, I'm going to speak up . . . loudly.
On 2002-12-17 16:12, WesE wrote:
I like the thought of eliminating push-starts by using ramps, as the push-start is not a slalom technique.>>
Wes,
Dan't take this the wrong way, but you are completely wrong. Trust me, I read Henry Hester's Skate Tip on Crow Hop starting so many times to know that push starts are the ESSENCE of slalom skateboarding.
Ramps and push starts are different, but just coming out and announcing that a push start isn't a part of slalom is too extreme not to be challenged. Right now my pump is weak, my equipment is tired and my physique is not up to the challenge of doing what it takes to win. My start, though, is one area of racing that has not only maintained over the years, I actually picked it up a notch this year racing duals.
Nope. Sorry. Anytime I read where the trend is starting that you got to have a ramp to have a race, I'm going to speak up . . . loudly.
-
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Leesburg, Virginia
I think you guys that want to increase the wheelbase of the long board slalom are forgetting the reason why the wheelbase was set at a 30-inch minimum. A 30-inch minimum wheelbase allows for the largest number of production long boards to fit into the category. The primary reason for introducing long boards into the Outlaw Series races was to introduce slalom racing to guys that were primarily cruisers. I think I even used the comparison that there are 100 long boards sold to every 1 slalom board. Also, Kevin is correct in that Pocket Pistol and Roe have developed long slalom boards that fit nicely into this category. I believe that 30-inch minimum is a good standard.
UR13 is right about ramps. It is not even a consideration to have ramps at an Outlaw race. We have enough problems trying to find good race sites. All we need is to additional jeopardize our hills by bringing out a start ramp.
If you guys want to go legit and have legitimate racing venues, and everything that goes along with that, then I will certainly build start ramps. As for how our races are run now, (The Gathering (Seneca Creek) being the exception), we have no need for start ramps.
Penalties for not being in the box when it is your turn to race will be hard to enforce. I think that once we assigned numbers to each racer and added the scoreboard the races ran considerable smoother.
The only additional piece of electronic equipment I would like to see is an electronic tone start and a false start strip for the timer. I will try to work with Tway to get these enhancements to my existing timer. All of the computer and spreadsheet stuff, in my opinion is a big waist of time on the hill, If we had 70 racers I would feel different. But 20-30 is manageable without a spreadsheet, as long as we continue to run single elimination, FCR style bracketing.
These are only my opinions and I love it when you guys over-rule me. Also, these are only my opinions for our Outlaw races. If we ever decide to try to go legit, I will have a whole new set of opinions.
Guys email me and let me know what you want to do about this weekend. Several guys have requested that we push the next race back until after the holidays. I have no problem with this. However if it is dry on Saturday I will be running cones, race or no race. Sunday I’m snowboarding.
UR13 is right about ramps. It is not even a consideration to have ramps at an Outlaw race. We have enough problems trying to find good race sites. All we need is to additional jeopardize our hills by bringing out a start ramp.
If you guys want to go legit and have legitimate racing venues, and everything that goes along with that, then I will certainly build start ramps. As for how our races are run now, (The Gathering (Seneca Creek) being the exception), we have no need for start ramps.
Penalties for not being in the box when it is your turn to race will be hard to enforce. I think that once we assigned numbers to each racer and added the scoreboard the races ran considerable smoother.
The only additional piece of electronic equipment I would like to see is an electronic tone start and a false start strip for the timer. I will try to work with Tway to get these enhancements to my existing timer. All of the computer and spreadsheet stuff, in my opinion is a big waist of time on the hill, If we had 70 racers I would feel different. But 20-30 is manageable without a spreadsheet, as long as we continue to run single elimination, FCR style bracketing.
These are only my opinions and I love it when you guys over-rule me. Also, these are only my opinions for our Outlaw races. If we ever decide to try to go legit, I will have a whole new set of opinions.
Guys email me and let me know what you want to do about this weekend. Several guys have requested that we push the next race back until after the holidays. I have no problem with this. However if it is dry on Saturday I will be running cones, race or no race. Sunday I’m snowboarding.
-
- Noah
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: NJ
If someone was to be eliminated from his/her race because they were coneheading on their way back up the hill, that would be LAME. I'd bitch about that. But it ain't gonna happen.
We could define it more clearly: Anyone not ready to race because they're in their car with a wrench, drill, a large bag of wheels, and a bunch of wood should have no more than 30 seconds to get to the box once they are warned.
Smile Wes, we all love ya.
We could define it more clearly: Anyone not ready to race because they're in their car with a wrench, drill, a large bag of wheels, and a bunch of wood should have no more than 30 seconds to get to the box once they are warned.
Smile Wes, we all love ya.
-
- Moscow-Washington
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
Ahh.... posting on my favorite blue field. I hate gray! Blue "feels" so much better!
Everyone could critique the short long-board wheelbase, but have you any solutions?
A 36-inch long board can have a 23-inch wheelbase. I believe it is the case with the long Sexy Pistol board, but I might be wrong.
My 30-inch wheelbase board is 33 inches long, so it’s no good for 36-inch longboard class in some competitions. Make 36-inch long with 30-inches wheelbase a rule, and no one will be able to find a board like that. Planker will cash on it, because they can make anything happen in just two hours. But there is no point.
Why even bother arguing about the small things like that when the large picture here is a tremendous difference in set-ups.
It is possible to make a 40-inch (wheelbase) board turn tighter, and be more responsive then a 30-inch one. Make the board stiffer, set it up with taller slalom trucks, and it’ll be turnier.
The real problem Wes, LBK and others are facing is not the longer wheelbases, but cruiser boards with a plush easy-rider truck set-up. There is no way that a “Cadillac” can outperform a long slalom board.
There are long boards and there are slalom longboards. Slalom longboards are going to win longboard slalom. No matter what the limits are.
The only quick-fix solution I see is getting a slalom truck set-up for one’s “cruiser” longboard. Slalom trucks and slalom bushings. $50 could make a set-up $50 more competitive.
Or just don’t worry about it at all. Worry about your traditional slalom instead.
Hope nobody else is getting an impression of SUBSTITUTING push starts in DC.
Wes, I was and am thinking about building the kind of ramp that we can use for practice and be able to fit in my/your car. Otherwise we’d be truck-dependant.
Vlad.
Everyone could critique the short long-board wheelbase, but have you any solutions?
A 36-inch long board can have a 23-inch wheelbase. I believe it is the case with the long Sexy Pistol board, but I might be wrong.
My 30-inch wheelbase board is 33 inches long, so it’s no good for 36-inch longboard class in some competitions. Make 36-inch long with 30-inches wheelbase a rule, and no one will be able to find a board like that. Planker will cash on it, because they can make anything happen in just two hours. But there is no point.
Why even bother arguing about the small things like that when the large picture here is a tremendous difference in set-ups.
It is possible to make a 40-inch (wheelbase) board turn tighter, and be more responsive then a 30-inch one. Make the board stiffer, set it up with taller slalom trucks, and it’ll be turnier.
The real problem Wes, LBK and others are facing is not the longer wheelbases, but cruiser boards with a plush easy-rider truck set-up. There is no way that a “Cadillac” can outperform a long slalom board.
There are long boards and there are slalom longboards. Slalom longboards are going to win longboard slalom. No matter what the limits are.
The only quick-fix solution I see is getting a slalom truck set-up for one’s “cruiser” longboard. Slalom trucks and slalom bushings. $50 could make a set-up $50 more competitive.
Or just don’t worry about it at all. Worry about your traditional slalom instead.
Hope nobody else is getting an impression of SUBSTITUTING push starts in DC.
Wes, I was and am thinking about building the kind of ramp that we can use for practice and be able to fit in my/your car. Otherwise we’d be truck-dependant.
Vlad.
-
- Stahlstown, PA
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:00 am
I think that Brian has the right idea about ramps at outlaw events. What do you think Officer Troup would do if he saw ramps at the Park & Ride? Might as well paint them flourescent orange so that he can't miss them.
I also believe that push starts are part of slalom skateboarding. Foot pushing has always been an integral part of skateboarding. There are many different types of push starts; all of them having their strong and weak points. And I need to practice all of them. Give me the dimensions, distances, and start rules, and I can lay it out in chalk, and practice my starts.
If ramps are to become used more and more, shouldn't the design be standardized so that all of us can build and then practice on the standard ramp? I don't think I'll be holding my breath waiting on this one........
But, what if someone was in their car with some wood and a drill, but they were building a ramp when they were supposed to be ready to race? Why are there 10 hot dogs in a package, but only 8 hot dog buns in a package? I need answers.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kevin M. Gamble on 2002-12-17 21:01 ]</font>
I also believe that push starts are part of slalom skateboarding. Foot pushing has always been an integral part of skateboarding. There are many different types of push starts; all of them having their strong and weak points. And I need to practice all of them. Give me the dimensions, distances, and start rules, and I can lay it out in chalk, and practice my starts.
If ramps are to become used more and more, shouldn't the design be standardized so that all of us can build and then practice on the standard ramp? I don't think I'll be holding my breath waiting on this one........
But, what if someone was in their car with some wood and a drill, but they were building a ramp when they were supposed to be ready to race? Why are there 10 hot dogs in a package, but only 8 hot dog buns in a package? I need answers.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kevin M. Gamble on 2002-12-17 21:01 ]</font>
-
- Morro Bay Skate legend
- Posts: 736
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Morro Bay, California
- Contact:
-
- GBJ
- Posts: 394
- Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Gaithersburg, MD
I've gotta agree with Jack there... I think turning is the essence of slalom skateboarding. Personally, I like boxed lunge-type starts (crow hops) AND multiple push starts AND ramp starts (big, small or in-between). My fear is that standardization can kill variety, and the loss of variety will lead to repetitious boredom and a very narrow and esoteric definition for our sport.
I think I've got a better idea than the limitations imposed by standardization. How 'bout we all just be skilled skateboarders and be able to handle it all well.
While I routinely preach variety, I must also say that to make it work, what I think needs to be standardized is the proper, timely, advance notification of potential competitors of important race information.
I think I've got a better idea than the limitations imposed by standardization. How 'bout we all just be skilled skateboarders and be able to handle it all well.
While I routinely preach variety, I must also say that to make it work, what I think needs to be standardized is the proper, timely, advance notification of potential competitors of important race information.
-
- Moscow-Washington
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
Imposing ramps on out-of-staters in order to scare them off is a joke.
A need to practice Ramp Starts around the DC area is not.
If anyone wants to be involved in building ramps FOR PRACTICE and would like to collaborate, I’d like to hear from you via e-mail.
To refresh the recent past from this very page:
First post: Ramp starts are the best. Push starts are Ok. Rubber is no good.
Here, I’m putting a proposed “rubber” idea at the end of what I think are the best-worst string of starts.
No suggestion to have ramp starts.
Second post: Ramp starts are not going to happen, but I (UR13) prefer push starts
My reply in that context:
Aha, you don’t like ramp starts?, Good!, Let’s have ramp starts! GRIN.
Followed by a serious proposition to build ramps “to fool around” because DC slalomers are not used to ramp starts. I was scared sh*tless of the ramp in Georgia a couple of months ago. And I’ve witnessed how much a good start is actually worth right there. One guy was an experienced ramp rider, but an average slalomer, still Bob Mandaino and I wanted to trade his starts for 50% of our speed, because we were quite sure this deal would still work in our favor. Even though there are many experienced park riders in the area, I’m sure there is some space for improvement on their ramp starts. C’mon!- I can’t be the only one who feels the need!
Summery of the next couple of posts:
Ramp Starts are the best, push starts suck!
No, push starts are the best!
We can’t have push starts at Park and Ride. Standardize.
They are both good.
They are good, but don’t standardize.
Ok, agreed. We can’t. They are both good, and serve their purpose quite well. Standards would be nice, but, sorry, impossible.
Anyone interested in building a couple of ramps? Just for practice?
Vlad.
A need to practice Ramp Starts around the DC area is not.
If anyone wants to be involved in building ramps FOR PRACTICE and would like to collaborate, I’d like to hear from you via e-mail.
To refresh the recent past from this very page:
First post: Ramp starts are the best. Push starts are Ok. Rubber is no good.
Here, I’m putting a proposed “rubber” idea at the end of what I think are the best-worst string of starts.
No suggestion to have ramp starts.
Second post: Ramp starts are not going to happen, but I (UR13) prefer push starts
My reply in that context:
Aha, you don’t like ramp starts?, Good!, Let’s have ramp starts! GRIN.
Followed by a serious proposition to build ramps “to fool around” because DC slalomers are not used to ramp starts. I was scared sh*tless of the ramp in Georgia a couple of months ago. And I’ve witnessed how much a good start is actually worth right there. One guy was an experienced ramp rider, but an average slalomer, still Bob Mandaino and I wanted to trade his starts for 50% of our speed, because we were quite sure this deal would still work in our favor. Even though there are many experienced park riders in the area, I’m sure there is some space for improvement on their ramp starts. C’mon!- I can’t be the only one who feels the need!
Summery of the next couple of posts:
Ramp Starts are the best, push starts suck!
No, push starts are the best!
We can’t have push starts at Park and Ride. Standardize.
They are both good.
They are good, but don’t standardize.
Ok, agreed. We can’t. They are both good, and serve their purpose quite well. Standards would be nice, but, sorry, impossible.
Anyone interested in building a couple of ramps? Just for practice?
Vlad.
Vlad...I'll never stay out of DC, I can't speak for Noah, but i like beating you too much... :razz: hahahahaha.On 2002-12-17 13:31, Vlad Popov wrote:
Ramps could serve two purposes in DC.
Fist, and foremost, ramps could keep out-of-staters like Chris and Noah out of DC, letting the locals guys take the podium on a regular basis (I hope Noah hates ramps too).
In addition, there is an entirely different slalom world to the East of the East Coast. I heard guys there are good with ramps. It'd be good to be able to practice ramp starts.
We can help the "Launch Ramp Program" get off the ground. We have enough resources (Tim, Ohm, Slappy, LBK, BrianP and many others), hands (myself, Jeff Bozi and a few others) and brains (Eric Geezer-X, Curt Kimbel, KMG and….that's about it) to be able to build a couple of ramps to fool around.
Let's make Gathering III the absolute deadline for two wood/iron simple-construction ramps that could fit in a mid-size car. Assembly/disassembly is pain in the ass, but it just might be worth it.
I'm going to start working on prototypes in January. Anybody who's willing to help, please contact me and we'll collaborate. Ya know, like the old SU-US typo' deal.
Oh, almost forgot. Silly!
If we are going to build ramps, we might as well get the plans from hester Or whoever has them) and build the same ones FCR uses so we get practice on those.....
but like Brian P said you guys need to find legitimate race sites to use ramps, they won't fly at the park and ride.
WesE...push starts are a very valid "slalom" technique. How are they not? While not the essence of slalom they are part of it.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2002-12-17 22:57 ]</font>
-
- Moscow-Washington
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
-
- Moscow-Washington
- Posts: 1543
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
so sitting on my ass on the couch resting my knee allows me to watch alot of TV. The cable company her ein the burbs of NYC just added the "speed" channel. So I was watching it today and they had this motorcycle racing, that I had never seen before. I think it is called "pole" racing. Basically it is motorcycles that look like Mountain bikes with engines on it racing a small oval track that is covered in wet mud....pretty gnarly
ANYWAY...what was interesting was their starts. They all line up on the track in a straight line with a dual tape in front of them. If they touch the tape they DQ their run and leave the course. On a start the tape lifts straight up and they are off. I like that tape idea for box starts in slalom.
Someone build a device that will string a nylon tape about waist high accross both boxes. Use the beeps that FCR uses...beep, beep, beep, beeeeep...the tape shoots up. I think this could be built failry low tech and light weight. Any of you DC gear heads have a clue what I am talking about? I can sketch it out if you like.
ANYWAY...what was interesting was their starts. They all line up on the track in a straight line with a dual tape in front of them. If they touch the tape they DQ their run and leave the course. On a start the tape lifts straight up and they are off. I like that tape idea for box starts in slalom.
Someone build a device that will string a nylon tape about waist high accross both boxes. Use the beeps that FCR uses...beep, beep, beep, beeeeep...the tape shoots up. I think this could be built failry low tech and light weight. Any of you DC gear heads have a clue what I am talking about? I can sketch it out if you like.
-
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Denver
Here are my thoughts after reading your posts regarding my post. But first of all, I have to thank Brian Parsons for having the guts to put on the past and future DC Outlaw Races. In no way should any of my comments be taken negatively on what Brian has and is doing for the DC Slalom scene and slaloming in general. I don’t think anyone else could do a better job than Brian.
DR
My rants follow:
1. Longboards should be at least 42” long and the wheelbase should be 35” (I could compromise the wheelbase issue if needed but not the board length). Anything smaller than 42” long is not a longboard but a hybrid board. Even a tricked out 42” longboard with a 35” wheelbase will not perform as well as a 30” wheelbase slalom board that has a small amount of nose and tail. I’ll race my true longboard on the principle of things. Anybody else riding a hybrid board are times I ignore when looking at the results. I think hybrid boards take away the fun of longboard slaloming. Longboard slalom has been the best way to bring in new faces but not if they know they have no chance to win because of others racing unfair boards.
Brian how about this for a compromised Longboard size: Board length 42” Wheelbase 30”?
2. Maybe we should do a separate longboard head-to-head race separate from the DC Outlaw Series. Maybe we could do it once snowboard season is over with.
3. Rubber band starts and extra start judges would not be needed if we can get the electronic false start system up and running. Without an electronic false start indicator, I think there will be continued abuse of the verbal start method. BTW, I am familiar with the tape start that Ur13 is talking about. It is not the most professional looking thing but better than the rubber band start. I’m just not sure how stealthy two poles with a tape streamed across it would be at an Outlaw Race.
4. I think the Bahne Backhill is the Spec board, lets make it official so some of the DC Crew can order up a Spec board of their own.
5. Rookie class or B class could do wonders to build our local scene. I love to ride with the same old crew but it is not growing the sport to see the same old faces at each race. Sure I like to see an exciting run between Ur13 and Kimbel but it is just as exciting to see two rookies battling it out. Personally, I learn nothing by getting my ass kicked on the course by John Gilmour or Kenny Mollica. Traditional bracketing is purposely built to weed out the slowest riders by the fastest. At least a Rookie or B Class would even up some of the racing.
6. If we are NOT going to use the computing power of computers or pda’s, then at the very least there should be a standardized recording system developed. For example, in judging a surf competition, the judges record scores, wave violations and so forth on paper in a strict format. The same should be done for slalom skateboarding. Using accounting paper with columns there should be a complete documentation of each race. The headings on the columns should at least be “Name”, “Raw Time”, “Cones Hit”, “Cone Penalty”, “Adjusted Time”, “Advantage”.
7. The South Florida Surf Longboard club used to get 30 members show up for monthly meetings. Part of the reason was to hang with other longboarders, the other was for door prizes, raffles, and impromptu surf contests. Giving away some sort of prize at each DC Slalom race will help make it fun to show up (Cabbage has donated Gravity items at past races) but the prize should go to anyone not just the fastest guy. I know that I will never race for cash prize again. Why should I pay a $40.00 entry fee just so that John Gilmour gets all the money? I like the “Rally Slalom” idea because it worked out well at the last banked slalom race. Raffles are cool also.
Responses??????
DR
My rants follow:
1. Longboards should be at least 42” long and the wheelbase should be 35” (I could compromise the wheelbase issue if needed but not the board length). Anything smaller than 42” long is not a longboard but a hybrid board. Even a tricked out 42” longboard with a 35” wheelbase will not perform as well as a 30” wheelbase slalom board that has a small amount of nose and tail. I’ll race my true longboard on the principle of things. Anybody else riding a hybrid board are times I ignore when looking at the results. I think hybrid boards take away the fun of longboard slaloming. Longboard slalom has been the best way to bring in new faces but not if they know they have no chance to win because of others racing unfair boards.
Brian how about this for a compromised Longboard size: Board length 42” Wheelbase 30”?
2. Maybe we should do a separate longboard head-to-head race separate from the DC Outlaw Series. Maybe we could do it once snowboard season is over with.
3. Rubber band starts and extra start judges would not be needed if we can get the electronic false start system up and running. Without an electronic false start indicator, I think there will be continued abuse of the verbal start method. BTW, I am familiar with the tape start that Ur13 is talking about. It is not the most professional looking thing but better than the rubber band start. I’m just not sure how stealthy two poles with a tape streamed across it would be at an Outlaw Race.
4. I think the Bahne Backhill is the Spec board, lets make it official so some of the DC Crew can order up a Spec board of their own.
5. Rookie class or B class could do wonders to build our local scene. I love to ride with the same old crew but it is not growing the sport to see the same old faces at each race. Sure I like to see an exciting run between Ur13 and Kimbel but it is just as exciting to see two rookies battling it out. Personally, I learn nothing by getting my ass kicked on the course by John Gilmour or Kenny Mollica. Traditional bracketing is purposely built to weed out the slowest riders by the fastest. At least a Rookie or B Class would even up some of the racing.
6. If we are NOT going to use the computing power of computers or pda’s, then at the very least there should be a standardized recording system developed. For example, in judging a surf competition, the judges record scores, wave violations and so forth on paper in a strict format. The same should be done for slalom skateboarding. Using accounting paper with columns there should be a complete documentation of each race. The headings on the columns should at least be “Name”, “Raw Time”, “Cones Hit”, “Cone Penalty”, “Adjusted Time”, “Advantage”.
7. The South Florida Surf Longboard club used to get 30 members show up for monthly meetings. Part of the reason was to hang with other longboarders, the other was for door prizes, raffles, and impromptu surf contests. Giving away some sort of prize at each DC Slalom race will help make it fun to show up (Cabbage has donated Gravity items at past races) but the prize should go to anyone not just the fastest guy. I know that I will never race for cash prize again. Why should I pay a $40.00 entry fee just so that John Gilmour gets all the money? I like the “Rally Slalom” idea because it worked out well at the last banked slalom race. Raffles are cool also.
Responses??????