DC Winter Outlaw Series

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:12 pm

Tuck-

That was funny.

hey, good luck with that 100 cone thing.

[ This Message was edited by: matthew wilson on 2003-01-10 14:16 ]

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:32 pm

On 2003-01-10 12:23, matthew wilson wrote: You guys are my heroes!

Now there is no doubt a young man of diminuitive aspirations! :razz:

Y'all have fun tomorrow. I think I'm going to take my new supply of Turner cones and try this 100-cone thing. Should be a decent way to spend a winter's afternoon.

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:23 pm

Longboards?? How long??
My Comet is a whole 29" long and 7.5" wide.

Whatever, I don't go fast enough for it to make a difference anyway. I am there to simply mooch of all your mad skillz!

I am very excited to be hanging with most of the D.C. crowd this Saturday. You guys are my heroes!

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:40 pm

Tim, Fountainhead is dry. This Saturday is a go. Longboards start at 10am. See you there.

Tim Keasbey · Post by **Tim Keasbey** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:11 pm

Are we running this weekend? The roads are dry in my neighborhood. In a pinch we could run single lane small offset here if need be.

Timbobwei

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:16 am

I might not be in town till next week, so if there is any debate on whether to hold the second winter race or postpone it again, I’m voting PRO race. Hope the weather will be…well, just will be!

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:58 pm

Fortunate indeed!

Andy Bittner · Post by **Andy Bittner** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:25 am

Hmmm... that means Matt lucked his way into being in town on a race weekend, with a Saturday available. How fortunate.

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 8:20 pm

oooo...oooo!! I'll vonuteer, as long as I get some pointers on slalom before I am taken!!

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:11 pm

I hate to say it but it looks like another wet Outlaw race weekend. So we must move it back until the 11th.

I guess we need a human sacrifice to appease the Gods.... Any volunteers?

Slappy Maxwell · Post by **Slappy Maxwell** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:01 pm

The dances don't seem to be working.
The forecast is now 80% showers on Friday and 30% on Sat AM.

I've found another tunnel that could be useable. It's in Old Town Alexandria just off of Union Street. It's flat and kinda short about 25 cones.

Looks like snowboarding might be a better option.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:46 pm

Yeah! I got something to say to this rain! Get this, you, stupid rain, you!

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 7:50 pm

Guys, rain/snow is threatening again. I will post here as soon as I know for sure if it will be dry enough to race. Since Fountainhead is in a wooded area it could take longer than some of the surrounding spots. If Fountainhead is wet we will try the P&R at Occoquan. If the P&R is wet then this weekend is another bust.

I wonder if there will ever, until the end of time, be another dry weekend in the South East? I am open for alternatives. All of the garages we have ridden are to bust prone for a race. Vans is out due to the short notice and frankly, I am tired of pumping on flat.

I’m going go outside and do my “PLEASE DON’T RAIN DANCE”. If anyone else has any voodoo that might work I am not beyond sacrificing chickens, taking up serpents, or any other primitive rituals.

Mike Ohm · Post by **Mike Ohm** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:02 pm

Brian, one observation from last weekends session. There is alot of salt and debris along the edges of the hills. I know PA Dan has a gas powered leaf blower but I do not if he is coming. I will bring a couple of brooms. Otherwise the hill opposite the hill we ran last year is killer. Duals may be a little tight thought.

See ya

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:03 pm

DC OUTLAW SERIES RACE #2 - Fountainhead regional park.

Longboard will start at 10am. Traditional slalom at noon.

I have all of the boards for the spec class race. I think Noah and Tim have both got there own boards and I will have boards for everyone else. Since this will be the very first Bahne spec race I have a new Bahne T-shirt as a prize.

Anyone in the DC area who has not started slalom racing and would like to check it out this is a great opportunity. The couses are set fairly easy and the hill and surface are very forgiving. Everyone is welcome. And the DC Crew will have extra boards and pads for anyone who wants to give it a try. Drop me a line if you need more information.

I have attached the mapquest map for anyone who still needs directions.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?ad ... submit.y=9

Brian P.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:34 pm

Eric, it’s impossible to get a head count here, but you are not the only one who’ll be driving for 4 hours to get here.
So far, expect to see from 5 to 200 people, probably something in between.

Eric Moore · Post by **Eric Moore** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:26 pm

I was planning to come up for the race this weekend. Is it still worthwhile to drive 4+ hours for a practice race? Depends on how many racers are practicing. Can we get a head count?

Dave Sobel · Post by **Dave Sobel** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 7:55 am

Hey Brian,
I will probably come out on Sat.

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 8:40 pm

Well Andy, we can call it practice. But I'm gonna be faster than everyone, to prove that so there are no confusion, I will be recording times. Then I will post them to this forum so everyone will know how much faster I am than everyone else that shows up. I guess I call that a race. No Outlaw points awarded until January 4th.

Andy Bittner · Post by **Andy Bittner** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 4:01 pm

"Practice Race"?

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:45 pm

Cabbage, this Saturday will be a practice race. I have not ran cones since the day after the Banked Slalom race in NY. So I am really fired up to smoke the locals.

Vlad, LBK has my timer. Hopefully he will make it to Vans tonight.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:59 pm

boards longer then 40 inches are longboards. my 40 has a 22 inch wheel base. The longboard I rode for the last longboard race of the summer was 46 inches long with a 26 inch wheel base. I know what qualifies as a longboard seeing that I am a pro longboarder.

on another note, computers rock,

one more thing, what is up for this weekend? points race or practice?????????

cabbage

Michel Temoche · Post by **Michel Temoche** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:01 pm

I'm not saying to throw away the whiteboard. I'm saying to have a spreadsheet as well. I've got a ten year old laptop with a spresadshhet that I think would work without any glitches. I also sell modern laptops with long battery lives and all you need is a little spreadsheet knowledge to run a race. I know that they used computers at La Costa 01 to tabulate results and their probably using them at all the FCR races.

Kevin M. Gamble · Post by **Kevin M. Gamble** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 11:57 am

[quote]
On 2002-12-19 00:00, Michel Temoche wrote:
Computers make it more complicated? Huh? Forget the spreadsheet keep the abacus! Computers will allow you to easily record and calculate results and standings, give you a backup of the stuff written by hand, so you can check for errors in tabulation and computation. If you need a computer contact me

Mitch,
That's what you would think, but it hasn't worked out that way. Maybe you can take the results and plug them into the computer after the race, but during the race, something usually goes wrong with the spreadsheet, power, etc.

Plus, after you take a run and you want to know your time, you have to go hang around behind the computer operator to see how you did. The crowd that grows around the laptop interferes with the computer operator's ability to hear the times from the timer operator, and basically gets in the way. Brian's whiteboard helps everyone to see their times without getting in the way. The whiteboard works because it is large and easy to read from a distance. A large computer display attached to the laptop would do the same thing, but then there is the question of power. If you can come up with a computer setup that works better than the whiteboard, great. Good luck. My money's still on the whiteboard and a little easy math.

[ This Message was edited by: Kevin M. Gamble on 2002-12-19 06:50 ]

David Riordon · Post by **David Riordon** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:17 am

Dave, I must agree to disagree with you on the longboard slalom class. I like the idea that guys can come out with just about any board and compete. They don’t have to worry about different board lengths and wheelbases, IF it is 30 inches or greater axel to axel it is OK. This allows for the largest number of production boards to be used. You can have anything from a Roe Bonita to a Super Tanker. Its kind of like Tee-Ball everybody gets to play.

The Roe Bonita is only 36" long. My hybrid skatepark board is longer than that at 38”.

Chicken calls his 36” Pocket Pistols by its’ right name, the “Super G”. He doesn’t call it the “Pocket Pistol Longboard”. Sure Vlad, the Worlds at Morro Bay was won on a 36” board because 36” is small enough to make even typical slalom courses.

From what I recall, Chaput’s Rough Cut has a huge wheelbase but the board is not long at all and thus not a longboard.

I bet if you re-drill the Gary Cross Comet board, it might even make the wheelbase limit of 30”. Would that be a longboard? I think not.

To settle the longboard debate at the DC Winter Outlaw Series races, I am lobbying for changing the name of the longboard race to “Longboard/Hybrid Slalom Race”. That way Vlad and others can pretend they are riding a longboard in the Longboard/Hybrid Slalom race.

Maybe I will play Tee-Ball with my 60" longboard that will be almost twice as long as many of the "longboards" that will be there.

All is cool though and I will drop the longboard issue on this thread (DC Outlaw Serries thread).

Laters,
DR

Michel Temoche · Post by **Michel Temoche** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:00 am

Computers make it more complicated? Huh? Forget the spreadsheet keep the abacus! Computers will allow you to easily record and calculate results and standings, give you a backup of the stuff written by hand, so you can check for errors in tabulation and computation. If you need a computer contact me

For enforcing starts on time, have a seperate clock, with a max time between 2 starts of n seconds. Know your place in line.
How about a longboard race and a real longboard race. This is all jmho.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 10:19 pm

Dear Dave,
Tight Slalom Morro Bay Race was won on a 36-inch board.
In that context your concerns with a couple of inch difference in the longboard length and wheelbase don’t seem that significant. :razz:

Slappy, great ideas, but where one gets those rookies? :roll:

Brian, now that I can picture it

, I want a Gilmour model myself. I will talk to John in a couple of weeks in VT, take his picture and get busy.
It would also be great if the international slalom "porn star" could sign his model with “Image is the Essence”

This isn’t just a great forum. This is the greatest forum with the biggest number of hits per day. And Jack Smith “arguing” with Wes Tucker here - it’s the best! :lol:

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 9:37 pm

I agree that we should seriously consider a rookie class. And I like the relay idea. All three of our races are designed to make something available for everyone. I think the spec class is going to be fun for everyone, beginners and pros alike.

I can see having a rookie category for all of the race types (Open slalom, Longboard and Spec.) We can implement this immediately. Anyone can be a rookie but once you declare yourself open you must remain open.

Just to give an update on the spec class. We will be using Bahne Black Hill boards with Tracker trucks and Turner LaCosta Wheels 78A. We will race on the same course as the Open slalom. And that is about it. Same course rules as Open slalom. The only adjustment that can be made to the boards is bushings and no more than 6 degrees of wedge.

As for racing on Saturday. I have received several emails that guys want to push back the race until after the holidays. I think that this is probably a good idea.

So, the number 2 race will be on January 4th at Fountain Head Park.

However, I would still like to run cones on Saturday at the Park and Ride. I will be there around noon.

Dave, I must agree to disagree with you on the longboard slalom class. I like the idea that guys can come out with just about any board and compete. They don’t have to worry about different board lengths and wheelbases, IF it is 30 inches or greater axel to axel it is OK. This allows for the largest number of production boards to be used. You can have anything from a Roe Bonita to a Super Tanker. Its kind of like Tee-Ball everybody gets to play.

I want a picture of JG on the bottom of my slalom board. Vlad can you hook me up with a JG model Dalv board.

This forum is great.

Slappy Maxwell · Post by **Slappy Maxwell** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 8:04 pm

On 2002-12-14 00:17, David Riordon wrote:

How about a "Rookie" class for all ages where you decide when it is time to graduate on out. That way the new inexperienced racers get more than just two qualifying runs and cone duty. The Rookie races could be seeded randomly in their own race just so it could be anybody winning the Rookie race that day.

I think more energy and focus should be brought on recruting and Rookies than debating ramps and push starts.

I think the rookie class is a great idea. We saw it at Bob Swartz's race in Front Royal, Va. It would be more competitive and interesting for a rookie.

I think this would be more useful than spec. class racing. The only thing that will be accomplished from spec. class racing is the obvious. Great riders are good on anything they ride.

Another race format that could be a lot of fun that I haven't heard mentioned is a team relay race.
You could have say...three riders of various abilities (pro, open, rookie) to a team. After the first rider hits the finish line the second is able to go. The third rider goes after the second hits the finish.

I noticed they use it in ski racing. They had a 'battle of ski schools' competition on TV a few weeks ago that ran it.

Low tech: you could have someone at the bottom with a flag to raise when one rider crosses the line.

Higher tech: use a timer or timers with displays at the top of the hill. an official could then signal when the next rider can go.

Shooting holes in the idea: yes, the cone heads would have to be extra vigilant and quick. but an easier (loose cone placement, longer/shorter course) could be set to lessen the problem. it could be set so easy that one or two cones is a DQ.

yes, there could be a +/- in the amount time for signaling the next racer. false starts could be hard to judge for the subsequent racers. but i don't think it 's anything that couldn't be worked out.

the rookies (and 'open' riders) would benefit from getting lessons/tips from the other racers on their team and would feel more involved and part of the scene.

i think it would be interesting to try before it gets blasted to hell.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 3:00 pm

I posted at 5:11 EST
It looks like Jack posted at 5:47 PST

Jack, you're gonna have to get up a lot earlier to beat this rabbit! :razz:

[ This Message was edited by: Wesley Tucker on 2002-12-18 09:39 ]

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 2:47 pm

Thank you Mr. Webster...I mean Mr Wes. I was just giving you a hard time.
Back in the 70's Paul Dunn used to tape a picture of Bobby Piercy to the bottom of his Turner, below it he would write

"Speed is the essence".

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:11 am

"essence (n.) 1. The quality or QUALITIES of a thing that give it its identity; the intrinsic or indispensible PROPERTIES of a thing." (My emphaisis.)

In other words, the ESSENCE of anything is many parts, not just one specific element you can hang your hat on. Whether its push starts, turning or pumping, there are many intrinsic and indispensable qualities that make slalom skateboard racing. Wes' argument that push starts are not a slalom technique is wrong. My assertion that push starts are the essence of slalom racing is correct.

[ This Message was edited by: Wesley Tucker on 2002-12-18 05:14 ]

David Riordon · Post by **David Riordon** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 6:07 am

Here are my thoughts after reading your posts regarding my post. But first of all, I have to thank Brian Parsons for having the guts to put on the past and future DC Outlaw Races. In no way should any of my comments be taken negatively on what Brian has and is doing for the DC Slalom scene and slaloming in general. I don’t think anyone else could do a better job than Brian.

DR

My rants follow:

1. Longboards should be at least 42” long and the wheelbase should be 35” (I could compromise the wheelbase issue if needed but not the board length). Anything smaller than 42” long is not a longboard but a hybrid board. Even a tricked out 42” longboard with a 35” wheelbase will not perform as well as a 30” wheelbase slalom board that has a small amount of nose and tail. I’ll race my true longboard on the principle of things. Anybody else riding a hybrid board are times I ignore when looking at the results. I think hybrid boards take away the fun of longboard slaloming. Longboard slalom has been the best way to bring in new faces but not if they know they have no chance to win because of others racing unfair boards.

Brian how about this for a compromised Longboard size: Board length 42” Wheelbase 30”?

2. Maybe we should do a separate longboard head-to-head race separate from the DC Outlaw Series. Maybe we could do it once snowboard season is over with.

3. Rubber band starts and extra start judges would not be needed if we can get the electronic false start system up and running. Without an electronic false start indicator, I think there will be continued abuse of the verbal start method. BTW, I am familiar with the tape start that Ur13 is talking about. It is not the most professional looking thing but better than the rubber band start. I’m just not sure how stealthy two poles with a tape streamed across it would be at an Outlaw Race.

4. I think the Bahne Backhill is the Spec board, lets make it official so some of the DC Crew can order up a Spec board of their own.

5. Rookie class or B class could do wonders to build our local scene. I love to ride with the same old crew but it is not growing the sport to see the same old faces at each race. Sure I like to see an exciting run between Ur13 and Kimbel but it is just as exciting to see two rookies battling it out. Personally, I learn nothing by getting my ass kicked on the course by John Gilmour or Kenny Mollica. Traditional bracketing is purposely built to weed out the slowest riders by the fastest. At least a Rookie or B Class would even up some of the racing.

6. If we are NOT going to use the computing power of computers or pda’s, then at the very least there should be a standardized recording system developed. For example, in judging a surf competition, the judges record scores, wave violations and so forth on paper in a strict format. The same should be done for slalom skateboarding. Using accounting paper with columns there should be a complete documentation of each race. The headings on the columns should at least be “Name”, “Raw Time”, “Cones Hit”, “Cone Penalty”, “Adjusted Time”, “Advantage”.

7. The South Florida Surf Longboard club used to get 30 members show up for monthly meetings. Part of the reason was to hang with other longboarders, the other was for door prizes, raffles, and impromptu surf contests. Giving away some sort of prize at each DC Slalom race will help make it fun to show up (Cabbage has donated Gravity items at past races) but the prize should go to anyone not just the fastest guy. I know that I will never race for cash prize again. Why should I pay a $40.00 entry fee just so that John Gilmour gets all the money? I like the “Rally Slalom” idea because it worked out well at the last banked slalom race. Raffles are cool also.

Responses??????

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:12 am

so sitting on my ass on the couch resting my knee allows me to watch alot of TV. The cable company her ein the burbs of NYC just added the "speed" channel. So I was watching it today and they had this motorcycle racing, that I had never seen before. I think it is called "pole" racing. Basically it is motorcycles that look like Mountain bikes with engines on it racing a small oval track that is covered in wet mud....pretty gnarly

ANYWAY...what was interesting was their starts. They all line up on the track in a straight line with a dual tape in front of them. If they touch the tape they DQ their run and leave the course. On a start the tape lifts straight up and they are off. I like that tape idea for box starts in slalom.

Someone build a device that will string a nylon tape about waist high accross both boxes. Use the beeps that FCR uses...beep, beep, beep, beeeeep...the tape shoots up. I think this could be built failry low tech and light weight. Any of you DC gear heads have a clue what I am talking about? I can sketch it out if you like.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:05 am

I couldda, how will we know that? Need a ramp start with a gate to solve that...speaking of which...anyone wants to build a gate?

Good night.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:59 am

On 2002-12-17 22:54, Vlad Popov wrote:
Chris, I think I beat you with my post (sorry, the timer didn’t work this time). We got the same time 22:49.
Wanna re-run?

Didn't you DQ on the start vlad?

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:54 am

Chris, I think I beat you with my post (sorry, the timer didn’t work this time). We got the same time 22:49.
Wanna re-run?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:49 am

On 2002-12-17 13:31, Vlad Popov wrote:
Ramps could serve two purposes in DC.

Fist, and foremost, ramps could keep out-of-staters like Chris and Noah out of DC, letting the locals guys take the podium on a regular basis (I hope Noah hates ramps too).

In addition, there is an entirely different slalom world to the East of the East Coast. I heard guys there are good with ramps. It'd be good to be able to practice ramp starts.

We can help the "Launch Ramp Program" get off the ground. We have enough resources (Tim, Ohm, Slappy, LBK, BrianP and many others), hands (myself, Jeff Bozi and a few others) and brains (Eric Geezer-X, Curt Kimbel, KMG and….that's about it) to be able to build a couple of ramps to fool around.

Let's make Gathering III the absolute deadline for two wood/iron simple-construction ramps that could fit in a mid-size car. Assembly/disassembly is pain in the ass, but it just might be worth it.

I'm going to start working on prototypes in January. Anybody who's willing to help, please contact me and we'll collaborate. Ya know, like the old SU-US typo' deal.

Oh, almost forgot. Silly!

Vlad...I'll never stay out of DC, I can't speak for Noah, but i like beating you too much... :razz: hahahahaha.

If we are going to build ramps, we might as well get the plans from hester Or whoever has them) and build the same ones FCR uses so we get practice on those.....

but like Brian P said you guys need to find legitimate race sites to use ramps, they won't fly at the park and ride.

WesE...push starts are a very valid "slalom" technique. How are they not? While not the essence of slalom they are part of it.

[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2002-12-17 22:57 ]

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:49 am

Imposing ramps on out-of-staters in order to scare them off is a joke.
A need to practice Ramp Starts around the DC area is not.

If anyone wants to be involved in building ramps FOR PRACTICE and would like to collaborate, I’d like to hear from you via e-mail.

To refresh the recent past from this very page:

First post: Ramp starts are the best. Push starts are Ok. Rubber is no good.
Here, I’m putting a proposed “rubber” idea at the end of what I think are the best-worst string of starts.
No suggestion to have ramp starts.

Second post: Ramp starts are not going to happen, but I (UR13) prefer push starts
My reply in that context:
Aha, you don’t like ramp starts?, Good!, Let’s have ramp starts! GRIN.
Followed by a serious proposition to build ramps “to fool around” because DC slalomers are not used to ramp starts. I was scared sh*tless of the ramp in Georgia a couple of months ago. And I’ve witnessed how much a good start is actually worth right there. One guy was an experienced ramp rider, but an average slalomer, still Bob Mandaino and I wanted to trade his starts for 50% of our speed, because we were quite sure this deal would still work in our favor. Even though there are many experienced park riders in the area, I’m sure there is some space for improvement on their ramp starts. C’mon!- I can’t be the only one who feels the need!

Summery of the next couple of posts:

Ramp Starts are the best, push starts suck!
No, push starts are the best!
We can’t have push starts at Park and Ride. Standardize.
They are both good.
They are good, but don’t standardize.

Ok, agreed. We can’t. They are both good, and serve their purpose quite well. Standards would be nice, but, sorry, impossible.

Anyone interested in building a couple of ramps? Just for practice?

Vlad.

Andy Bittner · Post by **Andy Bittner** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 4:28 am

I've gotta agree with Jack there... I think turning is the essence of slalom skateboarding. Personally, I like boxed lunge-type starts (crow hops) AND multiple push starts AND ramp starts (big, small or in-between). My fear is that standardization can kill variety, and the loss of variety will lead to repetitious boredom and a very narrow and esoteric definition for our sport.

I think I've got a better idea than the limitations imposed by standardization. How 'bout we all just be skilled skateboarders and be able to handle it all well.

While I routinely preach variety, I must also say that to make it work, what I think needs to be standardized is the proper, timely, advance notification of potential competitors of important race information.

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 3:19 am

"push starts are the ESSENCE of slalom..."
gee, I thought it was turning.

All types of starts are fun and have their own required skill set.

Kevin M. Gamble · Post by **Kevin M. Gamble** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 2:53 am

I think that Brian has the right idea about ramps at outlaw events. What do you think Officer Troup would do if he saw ramps at the Park & Ride? Might as well paint them flourescent orange so that he can't miss them.

I also believe that push starts are part of slalom skateboarding. Foot pushing has always been an integral part of skateboarding. There are many different types of push starts; all of them having their strong and weak points. And I need to practice all of them. Give me the dimensions, distances, and start rules, and I can lay it out in chalk, and practice my starts.

If ramps are to become used more and more, shouldn't the design be standardized so that all of us can build and then practice on the standard ramp? I don't think I'll be holding my breath waiting on this one........

But, what if someone was in their car with some wood and a drill, but they were building a ramp when they were supposed to be ready to race? Why are there 10 hot dogs in a package, but only 8 hot dog buns in a package? I need answers.

[ This Message was edited by: Kevin M. Gamble on 2002-12-17 21:01 ]

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 11:45 pm

Ahh.... posting on my favorite blue field. I hate gray! Blue "feels" so much better!

Everyone could critique the short long-board wheelbase, but have you any solutions?

A 36-inch long board can have a 23-inch wheelbase. I believe it is the case with the long Sexy Pistol board, but I might be wrong.
My 30-inch wheelbase board is 33 inches long, so it’s no good for 36-inch longboard class in some competitions. Make 36-inch long with 30-inches wheelbase a rule, and no one will be able to find a board like that. Planker will cash on it, because they can make anything happen in just two hours. But there is no point.
Why even bother arguing about the small things like that when the large picture here is a tremendous difference in set-ups.
It is possible to make a 40-inch (wheelbase) board turn tighter, and be more responsive then a 30-inch one. Make the board stiffer, set it up with taller slalom trucks, and it’ll be turnier.
The real problem Wes, LBK and others are facing is not the longer wheelbases, but cruiser boards with a plush easy-rider truck set-up. There is no way that a “Cadillac” can outperform a long slalom board.

There are long boards and there are slalom longboards. Slalom longboards are going to win longboard slalom. No matter what the limits are.

The only quick-fix solution I see is getting a slalom truck set-up for one’s “cruiser” longboard. Slalom trucks and slalom bushings. $50 could make a set-up $50 more competitive.
Or just don’t worry about it at all. Worry about your traditional slalom instead.

Hope nobody else is getting an impression of SUBSTITUTING push starts in DC.

Wes, I was and am thinking about building the kind of ramp that we can use for practice and be able to fit in my/your car. Otherwise we’d be truck-dependant.

Vlad.

Noah Heinle · Post by **Noah Heinle** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 11:32 pm

If someone was to be eliminated from his/her race because they were coneheading on their way back up the hill, that would be LAME. I'd bitch about that. But it ain't gonna happen.

We could define it more clearly: Anyone not ready to race because they're in their car with a wrench, drill, a large bag of wheels, and a bunch of wood should have no more than 30 seconds to get to the box once they are warned.

Smile Wes, we all love ya.

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 11:32 pm

I think you guys that want to increase the wheelbase of the long board slalom are forgetting the reason why the wheelbase was set at a 30-inch minimum. A 30-inch minimum wheelbase allows for the largest number of production long boards to fit into the category. The primary reason for introducing long boards into the Outlaw Series races was to introduce slalom racing to guys that were primarily cruisers. I think I even used the comparison that there are 100 long boards sold to every 1 slalom board. Also, Kevin is correct in that Pocket Pistol and Roe have developed long slalom boards that fit nicely into this category. I believe that 30-inch minimum is a good standard.

UR13 is right about ramps. It is not even a consideration to have ramps at an Outlaw race. We have enough problems trying to find good race sites. All we need is to additional jeopardize our hills by bringing out a start ramp.

If you guys want to go legit and have legitimate racing venues, and everything that goes along with that, then I will certainly build start ramps. As for how our races are run now, (The Gathering (Seneca Creek) being the exception), we have no need for start ramps.

Penalties for not being in the box when it is your turn to race will be hard to enforce. I think that once we assigned numbers to each racer and added the scoreboard the races ran considerable smoother.

The only additional piece of electronic equipment I would like to see is an electronic tone start and a false start strip for the timer. I will try to work with Tway to get these enhancements to my existing timer. All of the computer and spreadsheet stuff, in my opinion is a big waist of time on the hill, If we had 70 racers I would feel different. But 20-30 is manageable without a spreadsheet, as long as we continue to run single elimination, FCR style bracketing.

These are only my opinions and I love it when you guys over-rule me. Also, these are only my opinions for our Outlaw races. If we ever decide to try to go legit, I will have a whole new set of opinions.

Guys email me and let me know what you want to do about this weekend. Several guys have requested that we push the next race back until after the holidays. I have no problem with this. However if it is dry on Saturday I will be running cones, race or no race. Sunday I’m snowboarding.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 10:56 pm

[quote]
On 2002-12-17 16:12, WesE wrote:
I like the thought of eliminating push-starts by using ramps, as the push-start is not a slalom technique.>>

Wes,

Dan't take this the wrong way, but you are completely wrong. Trust me, I read Henry Hester's Skate Tip on Crow Hop starting so many times to know that push starts are the ESSENCE of slalom skateboarding.

Ramps and push starts are different, but just coming out and announcing that a push start isn't a part of slalom is too extreme not to be challenged. Right now my pump is weak, my equipment is tired and my physique is not up to the challenge of doing what it takes to win. My start, though, is one area of racing that has not only maintained over the years, I actually picked it up a notch this year racing duals.

Nope. Sorry. Anytime I read where the trend is starting that you got to have a ramp to have a race, I'm going to speak up . . . loudly.

Wes Eastridge · Post by **Wes Eastridge** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 10:12 pm

Wes,
Please submit your full name to Mr. Trahan.
Vlad.

I like the thought of eliminating push-starts by using ramps, as the push-start is not a slalom technique. And I know how to build trasitioned ramps, though I’ve never built ones that could be set-up/taken-down quickly. But the problem I DO see with ramps is having to transport them to the race site. I’m certainly not going to be able to fit them in my tiny car. If someone can volunteer to transport them, we could build them specifically to fit in their vehicle.

To the comments about people not being at the start box when they’re supposed to be, I ask what you propose to change this. How would people know when their heat is coming up without having someone tell them about it? People need to be coneheading on the way back up the hill (right???). I don’t know of any instance when people acknowledged that they knew their heat was coming up and then wasted time getting in place.

Regarding longboard spec, I agree that 30” axle to axle is a far cry from being a longboard. I doubt that the people that the longboard class was designed for will be showing up with Roe Bonitas.

[ This Message was edited by: Vlad Popov on 2002-12-17 16:40 ]

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 7:31 pm

Ramps could serve two purposes in DC.

Fist, and foremost, ramps could keep out-of-staters like Chris and Noah out of DC, letting the locals guys take the podium on a regular basis (I hope Noah hates ramps too).

In addition, there is an entirely different slalom world to the East of the East Coast. I heard guys there are good with ramps. It'd be good to be able to practice ramp starts.

We can help the "Launch Ramp Program" get off the ground. We have enough resources (Tim, Ohm, Slappy, LBK, BrianP and many others), hands (myself, Jeff Bozi and a few others) and brains (Eric Geezer-X, Curt Kimbel, KMG and….that's about it) to be able to build a couple of ramps to fool around.

Let's make Gathering III the absolute deadline for two wood/iron simple-construction ramps that could fit in a mid-size car. Assembly/disassembly is pain in the ass, but it just might be worth it.

I'm going to start working on prototypes in January. Anybody who's willing to help, please contact me and we'll collaborate. Ya know, like the old SU-US typo' deal.

Oh, almost forgot. Silly!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 6:27 pm

call me silly but pulling ramps out for an outlaw race ain't going to happen. Plus I seem to be the only one who likes puch starts. One of the things I like about racing in DC is not having to dick aroudn with ramps...

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Tue Dec 17, 2002 5:47 pm

I have a 30-inch one and I like it! I can make it 36 if needed, but 30 is just fine.
The loosing-run-for-being-absent rule rules.
Ramp starts are the best. Push starts are Ok. No one likes rubber.
Instead of a second t-shirt, a dozen of stickers and a baseball cap, Brian received spec class boards from Bahne!
There will be only a couple of donated second-hand prizes. Most if not all them will come from LBK.

Con: permanent numbers.
Pro: Double Longboarding, space and time permitting.

Rabbi says I can’t race on Saturdays... Hard.
Vlad.

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