anti sportive behaviour? see it all here

[John Gilmour]

I do think that the simplistic flatland courses are frankly boring for skilled slalomers. Very boring. and mind you I ran straight cones for years on end for about 70% of my slalom because we had rollerskaters and later inliners sharing courses.

I do however recall being thrilled watching a Pro slalom race in the NASSAU COLISEUM on long island NY. circa 1976

I didn't know much about slalom and we ran mostly straight cones (we were using ice cream sundae cups). Short courses under 10 seconds...because that was what we saw in the mags.

So I knew the rules and it was simple. I watched Henry Hester race Tom Sims and Chris Yandall. I think Steve Cathey entered. Russ Howell was there, Skitch Hitchcock, Desiree von Essen, Ellen Oneil, Ed Nadelin, Bruce Logan, maybe Tony Alva. Not sure if Chaput was there or Bobby Piercy. great freestylers, great slalomers, and Hitchcock riding a custom foam and glass deck for gorilla gripping.

But there it was. All these great skateboarders in one indoor place in the fall (after we had stopped skating from the cold) and it was a breath of warm air to us.

I was skating on a 24 inch Fibreflex kicktail with Road roder 4's and Bennetts. So was my other fast slalomer friend. Larry Marcus - our wealthy friend bought a Hester cutaway that day as well as 50 Sims slalom cones.

We now had real cones. We weighed 70lbs each and burnt through Pro keds and Pumas at a rate of a pair every 2 weeks.

If there had not have been a huge contest with all these disciplines Freestyle, slalom, barrel jumping, High jumping, we might not have gone just to watch a slalom race.

It was indoor on a huge wooden ramp- at least 1/3 of the cones were on the ramp. At the end the racers jumped off their boards into impact bags.

Henry Hester, my childhood skate hero, won that day. I wanted to buy everything that had his name on it and cones...but I didn't have enough cash.

Larry bought it ALL. So did his half brother Todd, and neither of them came for the slalom.

So money got pumped into slalom that day. I got to see my favorite racers. I even got to see Tom Sims try to stuff a 36 inch taper kick with Sims Comps (WOW what a huge board with giant wheels ...too big! LOL. Through the course hitting almost every cone with the tail...we thought "36 inch boards...wow those are way too large for slalom").

The freesytle got boring after a while - the lights were dimmed for the routines like ice skating, we kept falling asleep. Steve Cathey did like 70 twin board 360's, Russ Howell pulled off a lot of 360's , Skitch hitchcock gorilla gripped over a bunch of things and maybe Chris Chaput did a bunch of multiple baord handstands.. I'm not sure...

BUT the slalom- that was exciting! It was fast paced with bright lights. people cheering, clapping, people holding their breath while watching them race... we were wide awake for that.

So inspired by what we saw, we devoted more time from freestyle into slalom and downhill.


I don't think we could have convinced parents to stand outside in 55 degree weather for a slalom race or gotten out friends parents to drive for just slalom. So the indoor thing was good.

right now- if a skater can't drive... he can't go to a slalom contest unless his parents or older skaters take him.

These indoor arenas are always accessible by public transportation. No driver required.

So it is possible to expose kids to slalom when they are young in these arenas.

And to get slalom packaged with other forms of skateboarding that is held indoors. Banked slalom is a way to do this...but pure slalom using slalom gear made for the ground plane is what we want kids to buy so they will start slalom scenes in their neighborhoods. We did, .....the course I set up in NYC ran for 25 years.

So the answer might be to modify slalom indoors. Perhaps we could have a circuit that is circular. Skaters would have to skate the inside loop on the first lap and the outside on the second lap. It could have elevation and decline. It could encircle the ramps. A race might take 25-60 seconds.

And if you want to race a parellel course...why not? You could run that down the center.

My suggestion is not to force slalom on the masses and run some events concurrently instead of sequentially.


So the groms vert could run at the same time as the pro slalom.

That way people are not forced to watch slalom while waiting for an event.

So while I dislike flatland and as a racer have very little interest in entering flatland events.....

When faced with winter -
and being able to race indoors with spectators-
sign a few autgraphs-
win some big money-
and get some kids stoked-

... I can see lots of big hill pros accept racing 5-10% of their races indoors during a rainy season and they can feel confident that they can book airline tickets way in advance without fear of weather screwing things up and hanging around in a crappy hotel room waiting for a course to dry.

You just have to keep the mix right. For indoors not only straight courses, not only a single ramp to flat, not only a 7 second course....but also have another event using slalom skills. I think a discussion might bear out a good event.

Now,,,who can get footage of that Nassau Collesium race? I remember it like yesterday. Hester vs Yandall in the finals. Hester got the crow hop start and won.

We all wanted to buy his stuff.

oh... I didn't forget Chris Yandall. I bought his Chris Yandall Pro Rolls that day. The worlds grippiest wheel ever made and slow enough to use on super steeps... I wish I never sold them. cool wheel CY.



BTW I have "tubesock" which allows me to download and save youtube vids in case anyone wants a copy pm me.

Someone....toss it up on Youtube... it has to be there.

[Steve Hinzen]

we might better discuss flat or slope under this topic:
viewtopic.php?t=4547

Flat courses are excluding slalomers with little developed pumping-skills (high ramps don't really help here). (Not to steep) slope courses give more chances to beginners as long as they bring some turning skills.



In the end it all comes to the need of some very primal guidelines or a vision the ISSA has to come up with before craeting any rules. Then rules will follow and a certain flexibility will be automatically at hand.

I wonder where the ISSA wants to go.

Is it about promoting what we do?
If yes, how?

Is it all about "grassroots" and having fun?
At the EUROs and WORLDS I attended so far there has always been a big number of "sort of beginners" (me included) participating.

Is it about big structures and the big show-down in front of many spectators?
Than the ISSA should think about having only qualified racers at a MAJOR-Event.

The ISSA hasn't developed "the big picture" so far, I think.
That is why some racers have trouble to identify with what is happening under the name ISSA. And it is definitely the reason for many controversial and endless discussions.

[Jani Soderhall]

Donald,

I just noticed your long post above from the 30:th. I had not seen that before. (Good post by the way.) I absolutely agree that slalom is changing and that the trend towards steeper hills is fun and probably also good for the sport (history will tell). But it doesn't mean that we can't have variety. It doesn't all have to be the same. If someone wants to do an uphill course, let's do it. If someone wants to do an obstacle slalom course, let's do it. In the end it's participants that decide if it was fun and if it's worth re-doing it. Anything that is lame will die out on itself.

I think that any kind of slalom is fun as long as the course is right for the place, you have the equipment needed and that the surface is good (meaning very good). Poor surface is about the worst that can happen to a slalom race. Then it doesn't matter if it's downhill or flat.

Hmm, I better get back to work. Now that we're done with this debate. You've said yours, I've said mine. Probably we're waisting everybody's time here.

/Jani

[Jani Soderhall]

janis,go and check your pm's

Oops, Donald, someone has accurate, biting arguments. I understand you need to take that discussion offstage now. Better not bring anything up here which tells truths that hurts your agenda.

/Jani

[Donald Campbell]

janis,go and check your pm's

[Janis kuzmins]

Coments about eruos 07 are in a lot of topics (now in mowies too), but usualy sounds not objective.Thats looks like a hourting about loose.
Brix first two ewents was on 1.5% -2%, that the same as flat.
Thats now mater to race straight and tight on slope or flat, beter on slope , but if its a big start ramp the speed from the midle of course its the same. Most important quality of organizatin and spectators. And ofcourse we need a new places for growing up.Main that so important competition do not have 5 spectators and some animals like ...

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Later this year, I want to organize an open short-wheelbase slalom comp in Moscow, where skateboards with over 50-cm wheelbase will not be allowed in any of the slalom disciplines including Parallel Slalom, Special Slalom, and GS.

Axle to axle or innerholes?

[Vlad Popov]

As part of the European Skateboard Racing Tour, we want to hold a carbon copy of this competition in Moscow in April 2007; not exactly “20 years after”, but close. It’s a good way for one of the sponsors - the only shop in Moscow that sells slalom-related product - to promote itself and its stuff at the Russian Spring EXPO, and the only way to skate in Moscow while snow’s still on the ground. The indoor arena is being checked.

Later this year, I want to organize an open short-wheelbase slalom comp in Moscow, where skateboards with over 50-cm wheelbase will not be allowed in any of the slalom disciplines including Parallel Slalom, Special Slalom, and GS.

[Donald Campbell]

skateboarding evolved through the last few decades,so did slalom in general too.
bigger boards,more concave,stiff decks,offset trucks in all variations,better urethane formulas and wider wheels.

i think slalom also evolved a lot when it comes to the actual competition.
flatland races are pretty much dead-no denying that fact.
only the europeans manage to create contests that actually involve flatland racing,only some,to be exact.
now,for me,that's a big catastrophe.
but when i look around the catastrophe is even bigger than that contest.

jani,in all honesty and with no bad intentions behind it:do you really believe in what you just said?

that was a very cocky reply to any racer out there.
is slalom such a big sport that you can actually ask people to stay home?

we all know that it's not!

right now it is growing and to keep it growing the sport in i´tself has to be appealing for the audicence watching.

from experiences made in the past we all know that the old standard flatland racing was bound to fail.
it really doesn't matter indoor or outdoor.
these races are especially in the lower am classes more than boring to watch.

right now i see the situation with the euros this year as an"is as it is" situation.

so let's make the best out of it,of course.
but,again,flatland is not the future.
especially not in a city surrounded by mountains,especially not in a deserted old ice-rink stadium,which played a sideshow at the olympics that day.

maybe you think i'm wrong,well that's ok and it doesn't hurt me that much.
but i really think we need more races which involve more thrills,speed,suspense,again,also for the spectators.this really helps grow the sport.

it is a known fact to me that certain people will not show up at grenoble,including myself,because of the frustrating outlook at the event itself.
i am not willing to have travel expenses for such a flat show.
and yes,i will stay at home and skate on slopes or in the pool.
that's fun.
my friends will do the same,not only here in my area,but also at other locations in europe.
besides that i'm really looking forward to the worlds,that's a place we all will visit then to have our fun.

where's the difference you want to ask?

the biggest difference i see is the organizer of the race who FOLLOWS the wishes of the racers to make his event happening and attractive in any way.
i've been in contact with marion the last few months on several occasions and my resumee of his work is more than an a+++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
when you follow discussions about hobby hill f.e. where racers were unhappy with the location and then see how marion comes up with a satisfying solution,that's how it has to be done.it's not the organizer who can dictate what's happening.

in grenoble i only see organizers who select the tracks themselves(or were forced to) and then they tell people that this is the deal.

i've been there,jani,i've been there before you were there,i've seen it fall apart before you were there.
i learned and i am still learning from mistakes other people made and that is good so.
otherwise the scene would be dead sooner or later.

please note that these observations come from me and are not meant to attack anybody.

i am reflecting peacefully,bringing my arguments into the discussion.

i hope everybody else can reflect the same way,so that we keep this discussion evolving in an orderly and constructive manner.

[Steve Hinzen]

Jani wrote:

If it doesn't suit your style or skills, just stay at home.

That's exactly what I am going to do, Jani.

[Jani Soderhall]

Thank God we don't have to skate these dumb straight FLAT courses anymore

Thank God we don't have to skate THOSE dumb straight flat courses anymore.

Those races in Munster in the late 80's was the beginning of the end (of that epoque). When slalom is just a sideshow in an event of "real skateboarding" you can't expect more than 40m of flat wooden surface. That's why the ISSA broke away from "real skateboarding". Those guys never cared about us, why continue to accept 7 second courses indoors and just feeling that we're stealing too much of their precious time in the spotlight? The ISSA started the trend of ONLY slalom events which is what kept our stoke going for so much longer.

Skating outdoors on smooth flat surface can be an excellent experience. Working your way through the course, feeling the wheels adhere and help your propulsion. Nothing beats it. Whether it's flat, or downhill, it's the same nice feeling. Adapt your equipment and style and just do it!

We should all be damned grateful that there are people out there ready to put in a lot of effort into putting together any event. If it doesn't suit your style or skills, just stay at home.

/Jani

[Steve Hinzen]

Thank God we don't have to skate these dumb straight FLAT courses anymore, do we?

flat is flat.

[Sven Lippert]

... nice research donald - i need to watch all the other stuff at home, not in between a few phonecalls here in the office. oh my god youtube has nice stuff in storage. skateboarding yes .... but also lots of surprises when you look out for old bands stuff !!!!

anyway berlin made it but the "handshake" is missed

cheers ....

svenne

[HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric]

Indoor slalom and signing autograph ?! looks like slalom made a step back, I heard some good stories from Vincent Langlade, when the french fédération paid everything for the racers.... long time ago....

Nice vidéo Don'

[Donald Campbell]

no handshake at the end of the run,eh?
hahahahahaha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYhzyPGWH0s


classic stuff from muenster 88 flashback

berlin takes it all and jani walks away contemplated

just kidding enjoy that classic stuff anyway