no joke ?

[Vlad Popov]

===

[Etienne de Bary]

i absolutely agree with you

[Mike Johnson]

US cop "Welcome to Denver we hope you enjoy your stay"
Me in shocked silence "?????"

i would find it rather natural "- thank you sir",
however try it with a french passport, you might have a different experience, or not...

My experiences have been many and i've travelled all over the world practically and seen many different attitudes to my nationality, my point is that one expects a certain type of welcome from countries. I expected an unwelcome attitude in the USA for a number of reasons and was pleasantly surprised by Americans friendly nature, i would go back again. Try having a British passport and attempt to book a hotel room in French Quebec, that was fun.

[Etienne de Bary]

US cop "Welcome to Denver we hope you enjoy your stay"
Me in shocked silence "?????"

i would find it rather natural "- thank you sir",
however try it with a french passport, you might have a different experience, or not...

[Etienne de Bary]

When deciding whether or not to travel to a race (either from Europe to USA or vice-versa) I would think the least important factor that would enter most people's minds would be whether or not they will be treated well by the airport security.
I would guess that the following factors are what people consider when deciding whether to travel or not:
How expensive is it?
[...]

So you guys think that a charter ticket, then some dozen hours discussing important matters like one's hair color, previous baby-sitting jobs, or PC correct way to bash a stewardess, then back home on a regular ticket, makes cheap enjoyable holydays ?

Vlad, we do not need to enter political considerations in this topic, for only very few fanatics on this planet will take american individuals responsable for US policy, everybody knows one does not have a lot of influence on it, i believe US humanitarian is 0,1 gdp or something, (your question was probably about NATO defense charges burden ?).
In Europe we generally think our political and security systems are unperfect and mean, with the advantage that we have little bad surprises, we are suspicious to our governants and still at work with improving (and we never make ourselves ridiculous discribing how perfect they are.) So if you have informations about french cops mistreating a US teenager (or whatever his nationality, etc.), i'm interested.

[Mike Johnson]

In my experience airport and general cops in the US are some of the most friendly and courteous cops i've seen, theres a line though and dont cross it, smile and be friendly play the stoopid European and you'll even get help and info. Same goes with normal US cops. The place i'll never go back to is Canada where underhand anti-skate cop tactics are a real threat to health....and Turkish cops eeeek

Me "Why are you hitting me with your baton"
Turkish cop "Because you are an English"
Me "But i'm waiting for my baggage"
Turkish Cop "No talk"

US cop "Welcome to Denver we hope you enjoy your stay"
Me in shocked silence "?????" I wonder if that ignorant Euro attitude is honest bafflement at courteous refrains.

[Pat Chewning]

Let's come back to the real world, the subject of this post is: do you think a lot of riders will fly from Europe with the risk of being arbitrarily treated like **** by airport customs agents who think they are playing in "Texas Ranger", and then to fly back on their own charges, for leisure ?

When deciding whether or not to travel to a race (either from Europe to USA or vice-versa) I would think the least important factor that would enter most people's minds would be whether or not they will be treated well by the airport security.

I would guess that the following factors are what people consider when deciding whether to travel or not:

How expensive is it?
What is the likelyhood of good weather?
Does the timing of the event mesh well with family and job obligations?
Is the event location, surface, and organization worth the travel?
Is the anticipated competition level suitable?
Do I have enough vacation time, or would I rather go somewhere else (like paragliding in the Alps)?
Are there local races that can feed my racing hunger, so I don't have to travel?
Will there be other local activities to make the travel worthwhile?

Other than Etienne, my guess is that the quality of airport security doesn't even make it on people's list of decision factors, let alone be THE reason for traveling or not.

-- Pat

[Adam Trahan]

Let's come back to the real world, the subject of this post is: do you think a lot of riders will fly from Europe with the risk of being arbitrarily treated like **** by airport customs agents who think they are playing in "Texas Ranger", and then to fly back on their own charges, for leisure ?

If European enthusiasts want to race in the USA, they have three choices:

A: Fly
B: Take a boat
C: Drive

[Etienne de Bary]

It's really just a damned shame the French had to go and cut off Louis' head. I wonder if our debt died with him?

The French, on the other hand, believes that we as Americans should feel honored and humbled that we were allowed to liberate France not once but twice in the 20th Century.

No Wes: we do not care a... bit. i never met Louis Capet that big butt, too bad he never thought of skateboarding instead of his locks hobby, you should have tought him Wes this is ridiculous, US troops liberated France because it was the way to Germany, and if they had not, i wouldn't be there, stupid enough to start this topic, and it would be a different world, without me cool ! Just like if Kennedy had not stepped back after Pig Bay...

THIS IS OFF TOPIC
WHO CARES ??? WHO CARES ???
**** LAFAYETTE, **** DE GAULLE, **** LE NAIN or whatever his name, founder of Washington city, and all their contemporaries whatever their nationality, gender or religion.
WE DON'T CARE

Let's come back to the real world, the subject of this post is: do you think a lot of riders will fly from Europe with the risk of being arbitrarily treated like **** by airport customs agents who think they are playing in "Texas Ranger", and then to fly back on their own charges, for leisure ?

[Etienne de Bary]

If I'd been on the French side of this discussion, I would've replied with something like, "Yeah, and all of you over there would be singing "God Save The Queen", if it weren't for we French winning you're little 'revolution' for you!"

you are not accepted on the french side, "God Save the Queen" Jones/Rotten/Matlock/Cook Virgin rcds 1977
however US participating WW2 was a quite unexpected decision of the late imperor Hiro-Hito, and i have absolutely no opinon about it what-so-ever

[Guillaume Olivieri]

even better!
if they manage to contract a huntington-like desease , they will be able to have lonesome (according to the viagra's effects) fun without ANY controlled movements...

[Slappy Maxwell]

There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra than on Alzheimer's research.

This means that by 2020, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs and huge erections and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.

On the bright side they will always have someplace to hang their wet towels after bathing.

Have you accepted Jesus as your personal toaster?

[Glenn S]

There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra than on Alzheimer's research.

This means that by 2020, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs and huge erections and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.

[Guillaume Olivieri]

I think it's USA but more precisely i would say: Marias River, Montana...

the "humanitarian aid" concept was not known at this time tough...

oooh that's so petty!

[Vlad Popov]

===

[Mike Johnson]

Americans didnt win the war of Independance......we English lost it but then again we did face the cream of English/Ulster Scots immigrants to the new land

[Slappy Maxwell]

I can bring the rapid decline of this thread back up in two moves...

1. Louis Pasteur was a really cool French dude. He made beer better.

Mmmm...beer....

2. My beer of the month is the Lithuanian Gubernijos Ekstra Castle Ale.


It is now my favorite Eastern European beer. Actually, I'll go a step further and include all of the Baltic countries.

[Brady Mitchell]

You guys should have seen tonight`s edition of the TV show JAG.

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jag/

And to that I toast with a fine puligny montrachet.

[Wesley Tucker]

The United States feels a sense of eternal gratitude and debt to Louis XIV and his subjects who came to the support and aid of our efforts in revolution against George III of England. It's really just a damned shame the French had to go and cut off Louis' head. I wonder if our debt died with him?

The French, on the other hand, believes that we as Americans should feel honored and humbled that we were allowed to liberate France not once but twice in the 20th Century.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

[Jack Quarantillo]

I can't get that damn penguin past 3500...
Q

[Andy Bittner]

Major props to Guillaume for giving the absolutely correct response to my statement about the U.S. bailing out France in WW2.

If I'd been on the French side of this discussion, I would've replied with something like, "Yeah, and all of you over there would be singing "God Save The Queen", if it weren't for we French winning you're little 'revolution' for you!"

Guillaume, Living where I do, near Washington D.C., originally laid out by a Frenchman, Pierre L'Enfant, and where there's a little park right across the street from the White House called Lafayette Square, after the Marquis de Lafayette, I am keenly aware of the major contributions of France and the French to the very existence of my country and my hometown. We Americans celebrate 1776 as the year of our independence from the British crown and, almost as an afterthought, note that we finished it by winning the American Revolution at Yorktown in 1781. The truth of the matter is, we weren't independent and we didn't win our revolution. In 1781, at Yorktown, Virginia, the French won the American Revolution for us.

I know all of this. This time I really do apologize for making that particular statement and also for the similar statement that accompanied my first, feeble attempt at apologizing. I stand by the rest of the conversation about terrorism, airline security, the power and sensitivity of words and language and the rest of it. I just should have left the whole WW2/D-Day thing out of it. I didn't and I'm sorry.

[Adam Trahan]

I wonder how many Iraqis complained when we invaded France to free the French from a tyrant ?

A similar point (less incoherent) has been answered before, when Arab was sharing your president's enthusiasm after "end of operations" in Irak, a bit more than one year ago...
Adam, do i consider that you want me to answer this ?
Adam do you want to lock this topic, and i ask you to remove the posts where my name is associated with the accusation, in case i would have the occasion to answer John and Vlad's invitations in the future.

???

Etienne,

I'm reading this thread because you guys have a common interest, skateboard slalom. I enjoy reading what you all have to say. I do not feel threatened by any of you nor do you make me feel like I am threatening you.

When it all said and done, this will just be some guys who like skateboard slalom talking about a off topic subject.

What is important to me are things like my family, my work, my immediate friends, my car, outside of that goes the state, government and global issues.

I think globally and act locally, that's about all I can do.

If you feel uncomfortable about something that you have written, edit it out. Think before you write or someone may quote you. I would ask that you do not make my job any harder by asking me to edit yours or someone elses posts. Just try to have fun and write about what you want.

Matters not to me if you agree or disagree with what I say or what ever, it isn't about that. What you write will speak for itself and your name on your words is about all that we stand for at this web site, this is not reality mind you.

Have fun and do as you please, just keep it respectful please.

adam

[Dave Gale]

The answer would be ... E , none of the below! I just care to be a bit more open/wise minded!! Sorry if that offends you!
Carry on.

[Wesley Tucker]

WOW!! I was under the impression that this was a slalom venue!! My bad! I really don't want to get hooked up in your terroristic/paranoid /Urbanistic ploys!!

Dave,

Which part of "Off Topic" eludes you?

[Guillaume Olivieri]

Oh c'mon Andy, aren't you tired of using perpetually the same arguments everytime you feel attacked by a poor little french guy who tries to jive you up?
"we saved you guys from the germans! we gave you guys a bunch of money to re-build up yer ol' europe!"
this is so lame dude, remember Lafayette then, you sorry-ass, he saved your asses from being kicked out by the Brits...
isn't it ridiculous?

I think both of you guys should find an outdoor activity to decrease that dangerously high hormonal level...or you'll soon be found dead in a pool of aldosterone

Shut up and skate you friggin' fruitbooters!


(Sorry for the rudeness)

[Etienne de Bary]

Perhaps you are having problems with English. I did not actually intend to "accuse" you of anything in the first or second post, other than being a loud mouth, over-reacting person, stating as fact information he couldn't possibly REALLY know in order to make an anti-U.S. point. You may have seen the word "threat" as an accusation, but I only use the term might likely be used by security-minded people to define someone or something that could need to be looked into further; just like language choice seems to have established Frank Moulet as a threat.

You "think that", you might "bet", or "guess", it's all as affirmative. To understand that terrorists do not go around shouting about bombs takes very little brain. Since France has been militarly occupied for some years, as you remember, and several people have lived and acted undercover in that era, performing all kinds of sabotages and other more or less dangerous acts, and this has become some kind of boring cheap TV folklore since then, and then it has happened again during the Algeria war with a different cards distribution, maybe for that reason some things are obvious for us when you just can't understand ?

So, to clear up the difference between what I wrote and your misunderstanding of what I meant: The first sentence in my initial post contains the phrase, "I think", clearly identifying it as a statement of OPINION, not of fact; and includes the word "maybe", which is similar to the word "possibly", but also implies "possibly NOT".

Yes you "think", means it is your "OPINION", and that is affirmative, not a question at all.

The second sentence asks a question that you've answered. The reason you "know" how efficient terrorists think is a presumption based on very reasonable logic, at which even a small child could arrive. You don't actually know anything about what trained terrorists think. You THINK you know what a trained terrorist would think, I don't.

Yes i can be very affirmative, i do think, and it is for sure, commonsense, that Frank Moulet is a big mouth like me and therefore not a terrorist. Terrorists have the capacity of shuting their mouth.

The third sentence begins with the word "Either", which means I'll be presenting more than one potential point of view; and the "or" included in that sentence means I've included both of the points of view that I think pertain.

I do have another question for you though, if you'd answer it. You wrote...

Terrorists do not "shed light on themselves", a child over 3 of age would understand that, or is that specific to european children ?

How are "efficient" terrorists trained to react if they become concerned that light has already been shed on them, and they want to deflect the attention in order to attempt to continue the mission to completion? You don't know that. Just like you don't know what you THINK you knew before. A very well though out, very logical guess is still a guess, not knowledge.

So the guy goes "- Hey arrest me, hey, Bomb, baaahhhh, bouuhhhh", then he expects the cops will think "-ha ha it's a fake." and they let him go. and then he really kills everybody by spitting his shirtbuttons all over the place "-tacatacatacatac".
Well you ARE smart, for sure !

Lastly, I apologize for pointing out, once again, that the French are indebted to hundreds of thousands of U.S. servicemen for the fact that they are not slaves in a German state.
It is no secret that there is a strong, self-righteous, anti-American streak in France, particularly in the younger generations, and I admit it makes me mad. I know the slang word "Riccan" or "Riccain", and I know that when it is used in France it is used as a derogatory term more often than not. This I learned from a young, French skater, with whom I worked for several months, after he had realized how unfairly generalizing he'd been in his opinion of people from the U.S.A.
Tell us this, etienne, when was the first time you used the word "Riccan" as a label for people specifically from the U.S., and did you really intend it as a friendly or neutral term?

i do not use "ricain" that is slang from the 50's/60's, and it always was very average, it's ugly. Sometimes i use "yanki" as mexicans do, i like it, i don't think you did read this topic before turning it into a trashcan, but i've had very close friends and a "fiancée" to call by that, tricky and fondly.
There is a lot of american people who live here in Paris, and they like it very much, they only hear of french "rising anti-americanism" when they use their cable TV. The french, and particularly the parisians, are very protective with "their americans". We have the feeling that the crème of the american people live here with us, and we are very proud of it.
(french opinion in general is surprised a man who claimed that iraki would welcome the US troops with open arms (meaning embrace), and does not seem to have plans to change his mind can be a very popular president. But OK, who cares about that ? it's just the typical negative humor. We knew it was a Vietnam from the start, but who cares our opinion ? Maybe we do not take ourselves as seriously as you do. Well, to be honest, several french wanted to go anyway)
Yes we liberately diffuse our opinions, including very negative ones, and we intend it as an act of love. This is far from modest (and wise), but in "- i'll give you my opinion..." there is the word "give", and we mean it.
My dad was in a tank of the division Leclerc for the second episode of the war, he is now more than 80 years old... Trying to guess what it would be if WW2 had ended differently is like trying to imagine i was born in Africa two centuries ago... i'll just try to live this life now. "- What if your father was dead twenty year before you were born ?" hard to guess...

[Dave Gale]

The lack of "intellegence qoutient" that appears here, surely and sorely overrules any "expert's" opinion Was diagnosed and tested to be far higher (top 1.5 percentile) And can't find a sense of any knowledge, merely opinion here!!

[Andy Bittner]

Since everyone in my immediate family have what "experts" call "genius-level" or "high-funtioning genius-level" IQs, we must have plenty of brains to spare. Why, etienne? Is there a shortage of brains in France? Haven't we helped you French enough?

[Etienne de Bary]

"Nice Andy, any brain donnor in your first degrees ?"


Can anyone translate that into English?
Thanks.

"Andy, is there brain donors in your relatives ?"

[Andy Bittner]

etienne,

No need for a brain donor, I'm quite happy with my IQ, which is quite high.

Perhaps you are having problems with English. I did not actually intend to "accuse" you of anything in the first or second post, other than being a loud mouth, over-reacting person, stating as fact information he couldn't possibly REALLY know in order to make an anti-U.S. point. You may have seen the word "threat" as an accusation, but I only use the term might likely be used by security-minded people to define someone or something that could need to be looked into further; just like language choice seems to have established Frank Moulet as a threat.

So, to clear up the difference between what I wrote and your misunderstanding of what I meant: The first sentence in my initial post contains the phrase, "I think", clearly identifying it as a statement of OPINION, not of fact; and includes the word "maybe", which is similar to the word "possibly", but also implies "possibly NOT".

The second sentence asks a question that you've answered. The reason you "know" how efficient terrorists think is a presumption based on very reasonable logic, at which even a small child could arrive. You don't actually know anything about what trained terrorists think. You THINK you know what a trained terrorist would think, I don't.

The third sentence begins with the word "Either", which means I'll be presenting more than one potential point of view; and the "or" included in that sentence means I've included both of the points of view that I think pertain.

I do have another question for you though, if you'd answer it. You wrote...

Terrorists do not "shed light on themselves", a child over 3 of age would understand that, or is that specific to european children ?

How are "efficient" terrorists trained to react if they become concerned that light has already been shed on them, and they want to deflect the attention in order to attempt to continue the mission to completion? You don't know that. Just like you don't know what you THINK you knew before. A very well though out, very logical guess is still a guess, not knowledge.

Lastly, I apologize for pointing out, once again, that the French are indebted to hundreds of thousands of U.S. servicemen for the fact that they are not slaves in a German state.

It is no secret that there is a strong, self-righteous, anti-American streak in France, particularly in the younger generations, and I admit it makes me mad. I know the slang word "Riccan" or "Riccain", and I know that when it is used in France it is used as a derogatory term more often than not. This I learned from a young, French skater, with whom I worked for several months, after he had realized how unfairly generalizing he'd been in his opinion of people from the U.S.A.

Tell us this, etienne, when was the first time you used the word "Riccan" as a label for people specifically from the U.S., and did you really intend it as a friendly or neutral term?

[Dan Mitchell]

"Nice Andy, any brain donnor in your first degrees ?"


Can anyone translate that into English?
Thanks.

[Etienne de Bary]

I wonder how many Iraqis complained when we invaded France to free the French from a tyrant ?

A similar point (less incoherent) has been answered before, when Arab was sharing your president's enthusiasm after "end of operations" in Irak, a bit more than one year ago...
Adam, do i consider that you want me to answer this ?
Adam do you want to lock this topic, and i ask you to remove the posts where my name is associated with the accusation, in case i would have the occasion to answer John and Vlad's invitations in the future.

[Dave Gale]

WOW!! I was under the impression that this was a slalom venue!! My bad! I really don't want to get hooked up in your terroristic/paranoid /Urbanistic ploys!!
Wanna take a long walk in the woods?? Where peace and tranquility prevail??

[Etienne de Bary]

To be clear, I do NOT actually suspect that edB is a terrorist, has ever considered being a terrorist or even consciously knows any terrorists.

Now I think maybe Etienne should stay in France. Exactly how does he know what "efficient terrorists" do or do not avoid? Either he's been attending terrorist meetings or he's claiming to know something that he couldn't possibly know. Either way he's now shed light on himself as a threat.

Nice Andy, any brain donnor in your first degrees ?

[Mike Johnson]

here you go bud

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shro ... 462045.stm

[Andy Bittner]

Actually, Mike, I'm curious about the story of the Englishwoman that you've referenced. Any links or additional data you could provide would be appreciated.

I don't like blatant injustice any more than the next guy and would be curious to know just how similar the two situations were.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder how many Iraqis complained when we invaded France to free the French from a tyrant?

[Mike Johnson]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiipppppppppppp

[Andy Bittner]

Yeah... actually, that IS funny.

[Mike Johnson]

Funny how the French dude gets jailed and by all accounts the English rose that got busted in Florida for the exact same crime gets a slap on the wrist and real good treatment from Florida law enforcement agencies.

[Andy Bittner]

In the first place, I am not one of the people who shut themselves in during the Washington D.C. sniper incident, even though the first five shots taken in the sniper spree were in the neighborhood where I was raised and at places where I can be found with considerable frequency. However, that's not what we're discussing here...

To be clear, I do NOT actually suspect that edB is a terrorist, has ever considered being a terrorist or even consciously knows any terrorists. My point was to illustrate just how complicated the whole situation can be, when we have to consider the words that people choose... and we HAVE TO consider the words people use. (Considering the words I used in my first post: I did NOT call etienne a terrorist. The whole statement began with "I think" and "maybe", and was chock full of "either-or"s. I'm not paranoid and I'm definitely not stupid.)

Etienne de Barry made a definitive, very confident statement about the proper behavior of "efficient terrorists".

I think that etienne's statement didn't come from any actual knowledge or experience of what a real, trained terrorist thinks, does or says, but is rather made on logical presumption. Right now, I'm going to make a similar presumption. I don't know etienne or have any real knowledge or experience of what the real etienne de Barry thinks, does or says, but the logic in my head says that he's just puffing up, trying to sound convincing and otherwise blowing smoke and making pronouncements to try to make his point about a frenchman, who is being held for making a false scare (or whatever the charge is). Frankly, if this guy got dirty looks from a flight attendant after an extended use of the lavatory, and used his self-righteous indignation over that as an excuse to stand up and proclaim at the end of the flight, "I guess the bomb I placed in the bathroom didn't go off!", he deserves to be detained. Much the same thing would happen to any red-blooded citizen of the U.S., if he acted in such a manner.

My point is that etienne used a statement of fact about the behavior of efficient terrorists to exonerate someone he doesn't even know, just so he can remain an indignant, self-righteous, angry, poor, put-upon Frenchman. In my own mind I have exonerated etienne's statement of fact about the behavior of efficient terrorists, based on a similar presumption. So... what do we have? Two presumptions. I would be VERY distressed if I found that those truly responsible for our national security felt free to make similar presumptions, and I would now feel partially culpable if etienne did turn out to be a terrorist. When does it all stop?! When all the FACTS are in.

Let some terrorist crash a jet into the Champs Elysee on Bastille Day, and then let someone make airborne comments about bombs on jets over France, and etienne'll probably end up being glad that people like that are detained, fully investigated and only released when every party is completely convinced that there is NO threat, and etienne might even possibly agree that anyone who commits such an act has opened themselves up to whatever happens to them as a result. Frankly, the guy who made the statement is lucky the rest of the people on the airplane didn't just get up and beat the crap out of him.

[Etienne de Bary]

Well Adam, i do not share your enthusiasm on any point:
- i do not think this topic could go very much lower, nor more off topic (it wasn't meant to be about WTC), and i am a bit concerned about being accused here, since must of security work is actually done by search robots... ... ... no i will not comment it again
So since Frank Moulet's case seems to have ended its ubuesque course we could end this topic too.
- religion, you're not talking about Frank Moulet's religion, ... so you are talking about another religion that may actually be a bit unfamiliar to you, maybe...
How many pure wasp terrorists do you think i could find ? There has been terrorists in all the countries in this world, wanna bet ? And i wouldn't say all religions, because i'm not sure, but all monotheist religions, for sure.
There is no religious or "national" specificity to make one a terrorist, terrorism results from specific political situations, when those situations are set up they emerge, and, like the Hydra, the harder you beat them the faster they grow and multiply.

Let's end this here, OK ?

[Pat Chewning]

And that explain the case we are talking about (putting a young guy in jail because he was irritated being hasseld by a stupid stewardess).

Actually, he is not in jail because he was irritated. He is in jail because he chose to use a bomb threat (or a joke about a bomb) as his method of expressing his irritation. Had he chosen some other means (e.g. telling the stewardess she was stupid), he might not be in jail.

[Adam Trahan]

...you guys are definately getting somewhere.

I don't look at it like "French and or American" attitude when thinking about terror.

I look at the problem as a global citizen. What you say, I don't apply the whole of France to what you say nor should you apply the whole of America by what I say and certainly when we voice our opinion over again about a subject we do allow people to see what we think.

We are pretty free here in America to do as we please, our country is definately progressive in those liberties that we are afforded.

If you look at the nationalities of the terrorists of the last 20 years, you will see that almost all of them come from 3 countries and their religion? Well, I don't think that all people from that religion are bad and the same goes from their nationality. But as a security person, I would definately use that information.

This is informative reading to me. I like seeing what you guys have to say and I urge you to keep balanced.

[Etienne de Bary]

Had some of those 15 that flew the planes into the WTC said something before they boarded their flights, maybe all of this could have been avoided?

There was actually warnings but actually no-one would want to hear them. Read Robert Baer: even the public dept is, or was, financed by Saoudian money

[Etienne de Bary]

Andy's post actually brings us back to the point : fear from the words "bomb" "terrorist" etc. comes because these things are pure abstractions, one is afraid of the names of things while they have no idea what the actual thing is. And that explain the case we are talking about (putting a young guy in jail because he was irritated being hasseld by a stupid stewardess). Of course if one of the actors in this had had any idea what these words exactly mean, nothing of that would have happened.

So i propose a reading list, so those who are interested can understand how a person undercover behaves, and a bit of things about a "batlle in the shades".

- Of course the basic, the whole corpus of the master between the masters: John le Carré, anyone should have read it, starting from the most recents, then going back to the classics. Recent "the Constant Garder" is a jewel, "the Tailor of Panama" is of personal interest to any US citisen. there is no weak point in the corpus except early "Black Candles". hours and hours of pure pleasure.
- Philip Roth "Operation Shylock" is great too
that's all in english
i'll add the french Maurice G. Dantec "Babylon Babies" which precisely points how secret intelligence and the real world constantly slip into one another, resulting in violence, and lots of other things too actually.

Fiction lets one show a theatre that could not be told as real, on the documentary side Robert Baer stuff is rather stupefying too, but he's not a writer the way the previous are.
If you need more, come back to me

[Etienne de Bary]

etienne de Bary wrote:

if there was a bomb, he wouldn't tell, efficient terrorists, like efficient customs agents, avoid all kind of show off.

Either way he's now shed light on himself as a threat.

This really brings a new light to understand the problem, for sure.
Andy, be certain i have compassion for you.
Terrorists do not "shed light on themselves", a child over 3 of age would understand that, or is that specific to european children ?

[Etienne de Bary]

etienne de Bary wrote:

if there was a bomb, he wouldn't tell, efficient terrorists, like efficient customs agents, avoid all kind of show off.

Now I think maybe Etienne should stay in France. Exactly how does he know what "efficient terrorists" do or do not avoid? Either he's been attending terrorist meetings or he's claiming to know something that he couldn't possibly know. Either way he's now shed light on himself as a threat.

WAOW !
watch out ! the reds are coming ! arrrhhgg

[Slappy Maxwell]

Did somebody say BOMB?

[Dave Gale]

GBJ was one who "shuttered" himself into home when the sniper stuff hit DC! Ain't nobody gonna torment "our little town" Give GBJ the right to be terrorized!!!
Sorry Andy..gotta be real tho!

[Brady Mitchell]

Now I think maybe Etienne should stay in France. Exactly how does he know what "efficient terrorists" do or do not avoid? Either he's been attending terrorist meetings or he's claiming to know something that he couldn't possibly know. Either way he's now shed light on himself as a threat.

Did you really mean that Andy?

I can see myself assuming the same thing. Had some of those 15 that flew the planes into the WTC said something before they boarded their flights, maybe all of this could have been avoided? Or maybe it was his grammar and it didn't come out quite right but in so and so terms, you just called etienne a terrorist?