New to snowboarding, need info

Rick Stanziale · Post by **Rick Stanziale** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 4:28 pm

Thanks.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 5:01 pm

Want to learn instantly? Without a single fall? It is possible. Contact Eric Brammer in VT. He can have you riding at a high intermediate to near expert level in hours. This is for Alpine snowboarding- the slalom equivalent.

After that come ride with me and a few other East Coast Carvers. In about 5 days....if your legs hold up...we'll have you looking like you have been doing this for years- and certainly you will be the best on the hill at nearly every mountain you go to.

The other option is try to figure it out yourself and feel like you got beaten with baseball bats. You'll be sore for weeks, and muscles you didn't even know you had will ache.

Wes Eastridge · Post by **Wes Eastridge** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:08 pm

John is correct. If you have the opportunity, go with someone that can teach you some skills to keep yourself from eating snow/ice. If you try to learn without any help: The techniques instilled on you from skateboarding will probably cause you to eat it hard for at least the first day. Contemplation of each mishap and keeping your spirits up will be the key to getting over the initial learning curve. It took me three days before I felt comfortable with it (though the switch to waterproof/insulated boots probably played a big part). That was on a 145 Burton Performer - a short, swallowtail board with a skeg. Equipment these days might be easier to learn with. Regardless, you will fall unexpectedly.
In the Mid-Atlantic area, John Dillon is a great instructor. The DC guys usually ride at Whitetail, a place that kinda sucks for learning to ride because it only has one slope for all of the beginning skiers in the DC area (long lift lines). Timberline, in WV is a great place to learn, as it has a large assortment of terrain that is fun for beginners and is far enough away from the city that the crowds are tolerable.

Noah Heinle · Post by **Noah Heinle** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:28 pm

stick with skis.

JG, didn't we make a deal for a snowboard in LA? Want my address?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:51 pm

if you want to be a real man telemark!

Oh ya and ride Indys too...

hahahaha!

(I had to, sorry)

PSR is an amazing teacher, well worth the effort to go up to stratotn and take a lesson or two with him, even for soft boot riding. I've personally seem him do wonders with complete beginners and having them linking turns by the end of the first day.

Rick Stanziale · Post by **Rick Stanziale** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:02 am

Slow down, don't forget - skiing where I live consists of being towed behind a boat.

What is "Alpine" snowboarding? Can it be done in the superpipe? That's where I want to ride.

Eric Brammer/PSR - I know I met him somewhere this year, how do I get in touch with him?

Gareth Roe · Post by **Gareth Roe** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 1:50 am

Rick-
What brings you to Seattle??? Lets hook-up for sure and go snowboarding - I know all the local spots! From the easiest hills to the ones that scare the poop out of me still - and everything in between. Make sure you bring your slalom boards as well. Winter in Seattle is prime Cyber-slalom training season.

I am "two-years new" to snowboarding. Having skied almost all of my life, I decided to try snowboarding because it looked a lot like the kind of riding I like to do on my skateboards! After a couple of hours, a bad headache, sore ass and lots of bruises - I wanted to quit for good. Glad I didn't!!! It comes pretty quickly and after a pretty steep learning curve, you will be tearing it up in no time. It truly is fun!

I have yet to try Alpine snowboarding. In the northwest, it is very rare. From what I have been told by the local shops is that Alpine snowboarding is popular on the east coast because they have relatively hard snow and ice - not a lot of powder. And that the hard boots and longer boards are more stable on the east coast ice. I can't even find any alpine gear for sale on the west coast! Of course we never have icey conditions here in the Cascades!

Anyways - please look me up and we can skate and go snowboarding!
Later-
Gareth

Troy Smart · Post by **Troy Smart** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:32 am

JG's high. I don't know anyone who's learned to snowboard at an "expert" level in a couple of hours without falling. Perhaps this happened to John but we are mere mortals.
Prepare for frustration and pain.
Do this and you won't be disappointed.

P.S. I believe JG was refering to Alpine snowboarding. What he said about being the best on the hill at nearly every mountain you go to is probably true as you'll be the only Alpine snowboarder there.

P.P.S. Being half lit before you start is the way to go. Bars will probably be closed so you will need to prepare the day before. Mini bottles are the snowboarders best friend. Rumplemintze and Jaggermeister are "de rigure" (whatever) at ski destinations around the globe.
Grand Mariner also works great at putting a silver lining around the fact that you just face planted for the 10th time.
If you have any questions please e-mail me as I am an expert.

Rick Stanziale · Post by **Rick Stanziale** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 12:50 pm

TS - prepare for frustration and pain? you mean like posting to NCDSA?

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:33 pm

Noah- just secured your deck ; last night. :0 Now if you continue to ski where does that lead...Rollerblading, or parallel stance?

I can understand Noah and Troys hardcore bonding with Skiing.- they ride tele- in fact Troys email xxxpins@xxx.com shows that.

If I were riding tele equipment the thing I would hate the most is some grey hairded guy blasting by me at 40+ mph fully conpressed and laying it over on the snow- leaving a 3 inch wide 6 inch deep ski trap for me to mess up my line.

Noah- you've got an alpine deck...in a few days your skiing days will be essentially over. sniff.

I used to teach both skiing and snowboarding. I would kick the kids out of my ski class that said they wanted to learn both Alpine snowboarding and skiing. Why because it would be a waste of our time.
"But why, Mr. Gilmour, why should I not ski?" I reply "Well its like this. See that Girl over there?- lets imagine that you can only go out on the town with her or Britney Spears who would you pick? You can only pick one."

"Britney."

I continued, "And the next day, who would you pick?"

"Britney"

And the next day and the next day for the next year who would you pick?"

"Britney"

I looked at the kid "Now, Imagine you are tired from running around for the past two years having the time of your life with Britney, and you want to know what life was like before Britney, and you decide to stay home and watch TV who would you pick?"

"that girl?'"

"Okay fine", I said, now after spending one day with that girl and seeing that life isn't the same who would you go back outside with the next day?"

"Britney"

---------

You'll go to the resort, bringing both Skis and Snowboard for a few times. When you get there you'll make a choice...it will ALWAYS be the snowboard. You'll tell yourself you'll come back for your skis later in the day, but you won't.... after doing it a few times.

Eventually your skis will stay where they belong- forever, at home. The only reason to continue skiing is if you have super high end skis and a cheap snowboard.

_________

I've seen Brammer take good skiers and make them near experts in Alpine snowboarding less than 3 hours in good conditions. On many occassions. It takes people at least 4 long seasons to accomplish what he can teach in a few hours. If he tells you the snow is good and you should fly up for 2 days of instruction...you should. I would have avoided almost all my snowboard injuries if I had been taught by Eric. He has my highest reccomendation and respect on the hill.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 7:41 pm

Going back to skis after alpine snowboarding is possible but rather uninteresting. Carving on a snowboard might/should improve ski level significantly, but that will only help realize/feel the limits of the skis. Inline skating vs. slalom skateboard is a good parallel. I’ve tried going back on skis a couple of times, but it didn’t click. Therefore, alpine snowboarding sucks.

Troy Smart · Post by **Troy Smart** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:56 am

I resent being pigeon holed as a skiier. (I have no idea what pigeon holed actually refers to but other people say it so I will too).
I love to ski. Both Telemark and Alpine, and I love to snowboard.
I spent years doing pretty much only that. Year round even.
Ski's and snowboards are tools.
If you use the right tool for the right job it's a beautiful thing.
Using the wrong tool is stupid.
Try skiing bumps on your alpine snowboard, or 3 ft of cherry pow-pow.
Or try eating apple pie with it.
Skis, snowboard (regular), Fork. All tools.
And me? I'm a tool too.
And Vlad? What the hell are you talking about?

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:24 pm

I don’t know what I am talking about anymore. John says it’ll go away as soon as we can snowboard again.

No matter what I do before the first day on snow, it hurts like the first time. I’m looking forward to the winter season and am not at the same time. You know what I mean, Troy?

Alan Schroeder · Post by **Alan Schroeder** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:59 am

If you're coming to Stratton look me up, I'll be on the hill EVERY weekday morning!

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:10 am

Shaggy, look up Carve Master's little picture and send one in will you?

Jonathan Harms · Post by **Jonathan Harms** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 7:37 pm

Rick,
I don't know exactly where to tell you to look for good used equipment, but I can comment, based on my experience, on some of your other questions. I learned the hard way in 1985 or so, on my own, on a tiny, icy hill in St. Louis, also on a Burton Performer (sans skeg), so I can attest to the "beaten with baseball bats" feeling of learning on crappy equipment without instruction. It doesn't have to be that way for you.

Prepare to be slightly to tremendously humbled at first, depending on your expectations. It's not skateboarding. Your skate skills will help somewhat, though, as you're used to standing sideways, balancing and going fast. I can't explain more, briefly. You'll learn by doing. Once you get a few basics down, you can progress very quickly.

That said: If you can, take a lesson or two from SOMEONE. You can learn on your own, but as Gilmour said, it's WAY better to get expert instruction. I'm sure PSR is as good as Gilmour says (he was at Da Farm this year, BTW), but if he's in VT and you can't make it there, you're kind of screwed.

Since you slalom and longboard as well as ride ramps and pools, I think you'd probably enjoy both Alpine and non-Alpine styles of riding. But if you want to ride the pipe, you'll need a non-Alpine board. (Alpine, roughly defined, means doing fast carves, going forward only--no tricks. Often they are ridden using ski-type "hard" boots and "plate" bindings.) To get a general idea of what you need, picture the difference between slalom skateboards and new-school skateboards: some are meant for riding fast and carving turns, and others are meant for doing tricks, jumping, spinning, riding forward or switch, etc. The board you want will have an upturned nose and tail and have bindings with high backs and adjustable straps, and you'll use softer, more flexible boots. Luckily, such boards (freestyle/freeride) are everywhere. When most people think of snowboards, that's the kind they mean.

As far as "where to go," others can answer that question better than I. But it's definitely worth your while to give it a shot. Hope you're getting something out of this. Feel free to give me a call if you want to talk more about it.

Rich Stephens · Post by **Rich Stephens** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:29 am

I think John is very correct on this one. You can save yourself a lot of time and pain if you get instruction from someone. At the very least make your friends tell you what's going on.

Since I had skateboarded since I was a kid and surfed since 16 or so, I figured it would be a piece of cake to snowboard. I gave it a shot when I was about 23 and, damn. Who knew snow could be so hard?! I didn't try again until a few years ago when I was probably 33. That time I went with some friends who gave me some tips and by the end of the day I was riding down the hills without falling and even imagining I was looking smooth enough to chat with the chicks in the lift line and trust I wouldn't make a total fool of myself on the way down. If I hadn't got tips from my expert friends I probably would have killed myself again.

Here's the kicker for me: you can't move your feet. I move my feet so much when surfing and skating that having them locked in was bizarre. Also, a surfboard is turned with weight on the tail but, at least at my beginner level, snowboards appear to be turned by putting weight on the front foot and if you lean back out of surfing habit you just slide out and down you go. In that sense it may be like slalom skating (but quite unlike vert skating).

It's fun though and I hope to go this winter as well.

Dave Anderson · Post by **Dave Anderson** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:12 pm

I would get a All mountain deck, strap in bindings and
boots that don't hurt.

I learned to ski in the 70's, skid turns not carve. It was not
untill late into second season snowboarding that I started
carving a snowboard and stopped skid turns.

Dave

Hunter Singleton · Post by **Hunter Singleton** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:33 pm

Rick, get a freestlye snowboard. They are more versitile and are more fun. Not many people except downhill racers have true "alpine" boards. these are long, stiff, and are single tip. The bindings are for ski boots too... They aren't much use on the East Coast. Alpine snowboards don't do half pipes or parks, or jib.

Freestlye boards are twin tip, not really long(should be about neck height), and are fun to ride.

As for used stuff look on ebay or go to your local skate/snow/surf shop and they will usually have used snowboards. If not, put a wanted ad up on the counter or window or what ever.

Also, you are gonna spend a lot of time on your butt and fall a lot too, so most of you older guys should buy a butt pad (really) most ski shops (at resorts) will have them. They are like spandex bike shorts w/ pads that go under your ski pants

P.S. the closest and best place would be Sugarbush in N.C., or there are lots of good places in Tennesse and if you want a really good place(where i normally go) Try Snowshoe, WV.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:10 am

There are more riders on alpine snowboards then there are snowboard racers. Alpine is the closest snowboard style to slalom skateboarding/longboarding.

Wes Eastridge · Post by **Wes Eastridge** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:38 am

Hunter Singleton wrote:They (alpine boards) aren't much use on the East Coast.

I have to disagree with this statement. I tried an alpine setup during the most recent time I snowboarded at Whitetail and it was a great time. And after seeing how Vlad handles the slopes with his, I’d say he gets plenty of use out of them, here, on the East Coast. From what I’ve heard, the East Coast (Ice Coast) is where it’s at for alpine in the USA.

That said, I would not dispute that an alpine board is the wrong vehicle for a half-pipe. I’ve got an unused Type-A Roan Rodgers 144 deck (perfect for half-pipe) that I’d like to sell for $200.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:15 am

After trying an alpine setup just once Wes is selling his freestyle/ride board. The same thing happened to me years ago. And to CMC. And probably to many other peepl.

Rick Stanziale · Post by **Rick Stanziale** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 12:33 pm

thanks everyone for the suggestions

I'm not buying a snowboard at this time, but I will be renting one in Breckenridge a few weeks from now, and perhaps I'll buy one at the end of the season this year.

Wes Eastridge · Post by **Wes Eastridge** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:06 pm

Sorry for using this topic as a Buy-Sell forum. I think you will do well with your plan of renting. Breckenridge sounds awesome. Probably better than anyplace I've EVER snowboarded. Remember this topic and post your first-day experience.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:28 am

Hunter Singleton wrote:Rick, get a freestlye snowboard. They are more versitile and are more fun. Not many people except downhill racers have true "alpine" boards. these are long, stiff, and are single tip. The bindings are for ski boots too... They aren't much use on the East Coast. Alpine snowboards don't do half pipes or parks, or jib.

Actually the majority of Alpine carvers in the USA that frequent the Bomberonline.com forum are from the East coast. I was saddened to see this because I was always hoping that there was a mecca of alpiners I didn't know about.

All this being said....alpine works best on snow that isn't 100% artifical in WV I would think there might be more artifical snow than in say Vermont.

I rode on 100% Artifical snow today- it was alright but difficult. Articfical snow doesn't pack like regular snow- tends to be more sticky (hence slower) and doesn't hold together as well in a sustained carve (washout) . If you are a good rider you can make artifical snow work, but it would be harder to become proficient in artifical snow.

Riding a boardercross deck would likely give you more of a slalom skateboard like feel than a freestyle board, and an alpine board would be much closer. Riding a sub 160cm Alpine board feels a lot like longboard skateboarding to me.

But 66 here's the deal. Come up North and I'll take the time to help get you going. I only teach one person per year that doesn't pay me- it's all the patience I have. Here are the deals.

Midweek $129 for three days of lifts and lodging in NH. $159 for weekends lifts and lodging based on double occupancy. add $29 for a single person ina room. Place has a Jacuzzi and pool.

parkersmotel.com

You can ride at Cannon, Loon, or Waterville valley. Loon is good for learning, Waterville is a good high speed cruiser, Cannon is icy but very "New England". Bretton woods which is close by has the ideal snow is wind protected from North East winds and moderate even pitch for learning alpine quickly- actually Bretton woods has the best snow in the east.

Come up and ride and I will give you a prize for your efforts.

Rick Stanziale · Post by **Rick Stanziale** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 pm

John Gilmour wrote: here's the deal. Come up North and I'll take the time to help get you going. I only teach one person per year that doesn't pay me- it's all the patience I have.

You're on. Unfortunately it will probably be early February before I can find another hole in my schedule, I'll let you know ASAP.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:50 am

I just shoveled 2 feet of snow- come on up now- before it rains.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:53 pm

Troy became the first skateboard slalomer this season to step onto the slopes. Troy already has plenty of snowboard experience and was carving on his first run despite not having the appropriate cants for his bindings. He rode a Rossignol 165 with bombers and 123 Raichle's.

As a prize for being the first he was chaufeured in a Mercedes to and from the slopes and he was sent home with a catered meal for his family.

Killington conditions were great. Full coverage- no lines, and rare for killington- sunny.

I'm working on getting one of the New Mercedes Maybach's the $300,000 + 62 chassis as a loaner. The trunk is so big we don't need ski racks- the car has a twin turbo V12 with 600hp and over 500 ftlbs of torque. It has a built in champagne cooler in the back and twin rear massage chairs. Sounds like a trip to Canada in that one.

Who's next?

Curt DeBartolo · Post by **Curt DeBartolo** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:54 pm

I need a lesson, and some food catering.

Troy Smart · Post by **Troy Smart** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:16 pm

I highly recommend a day boarding with Gilmour.
A fully catered lesson on the sunny slopes of Killington.
Limo ride to and fro.
Free wax job from Out of Bounds (the owner is one of Gilmours "peeps").
And 10 pounds of marinated chicken to go.
Fabulous.

Alpine snowboarding on the other hand.....is difficult.

See buy/sell/trade forum.

Wes Eastridge · Post by **Wes Eastridge** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:30 pm

Troy, what was so difficult about it compared to your 'normal' snowboarding experiences?

Curt DeBartolo · Post by **Curt DeBartolo** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 7:38 pm

I just want the free chicken!

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:26 am

Curt- am I right in expecting huge racks of lamb from you at the Expression session- it is all you eat every night isn't it? Not all of us have girlfriends who own restaurants.

Troy Smart · Post by **Troy Smart** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:27 pm

Well Wes, my normal snowboarding experience is probably not normal.
I lived in a ski town in Utah for about 10 years. I became a proficient skiier then got more and more invovled with backcountry skiing until eventually that's all I did.
Then eventually I got into snowboarding and that's all I did. (backcountry).
I have minimal experience snowboarding on hardpack.
The biggest difference I found was in balancing. The movement restriction caused by the stiff boots and the narrow, front facing stance made it hard for me to even stand up.
Alpine snowboarding and backcountry boarding are probably as different as slalom and inline skateing.
I think someone with a lot of waterskiing experience (one ski) would find it more similar than I found it.
I was very surprised at how difficult it was.
By the way, Gilmour just might be a better snowboarder than he is a skater if you can believe that.
Amazing.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:11 pm

Welcome the next lemmings.

Elisa and Lisa were snowboarding at Wachusett today. We took Elisa's bindings on a Joyride freestyle deck and cranked them forward to give a little taste of what carving could be like.
Elisa tore it up.

Lisa was newer to snowboarding as was happy just getting down the hill.

Elisa will soon have a F2 Roadster Carving deck with Bomber Bindings, she already has the boots. Elisa is a far better snowboarder than a skateboarder- certainly one of the best women on the hill on any given day. She rode most of the day until her legs gave out.

One thing I do notice is that most people find the physical exertion of hard boot carving is nothing like skateboarding because the G forces are so much higher.

One thing is for sure Elisa will be a much faster slalom skater next year as a result of her Alpine riding.

Curt DeBartolo · Post by **Curt DeBartolo** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:55 pm

That first feel of the stiff hardboots can cause such a reaction...wow these are restricting me to no end. It gets better..much better. With more time put in, the boots will start to feel like they are not even there, just like a normal shoe. Just have to break that initial part.

JG, I had lamb last night..holy shit ..it was tasty. Before that I had some Italian Piave cheese and some Explorator cheese...washed it all down with the Rock Rabbit wine. My gut hurts...Im going to take a nap.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:42 pm

At first for some women the stiffer feel may be painful- but after a while it is comfortable- though I have seen some women grab their calves in pain from the intial shock of the stiffness.

After a few times the discomfort does go away, as CMC points out, and it gets much more enjoyable. Most women who take the time to get through the inital pain find themselves addicted.

Jack Quarantillo · Post by **Jack Quarantillo** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:04 pm

John Gilmour wrote:At first for some women the stiffer feel may be painful- but after a while it is comfortable- though I have seen some women grab their calves in pain from the intial shock of the stiffness.

After a few times the discomfort does go away, as CMC points out, and it gets much more enjoyable. Most women who take the time to get through the inital pain find themselves addicted.

Exercising all sorts of restraint to keep myself from having a "Beavis and Butthead" moment after reading JG's post.

-must get mind out of gutter... we are talking about snowboarding, right?

Q

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 6:02 pm

If You are already on the internet- and looking for porn here, you probably need a new search engine.. or you have an extremely rare skateboard fetish.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:47 pm

First, it was Troy. Today Terence put his Volkl for sale on BoL.

Is it what riding with Gilmour does to people?

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:06 pm

People with children can't deal with the loud cutting noise of the edge on the hard snow- They need quiet.

Also they buy the carving decks and then find out how hard it is to get out of the driveway.

After an inch of dust- all things should hit ebay.

Troy Smart · Post by **Troy Smart** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 10:36 pm

I'm back.
No one bought my board.
It is a sign from God.

It sucks learning to slide on snow all over again, compounded by arthritis, missing ligaments, and balls made of paper mache.
However...
I WILL be digging trenches by the end of the season.
I need another lesson.

I'm going the weekend of Jan 4th. Somewhere in Vermont.
JG? Anyone else up for that?

P.S. Nice Avatar Vlad.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:14 pm

I think we should hit the stratton $10 plan- not bad really. I'm already signed up

Rick Stanziale · Post by **Rick Stanziale** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:48 am

</center>

<center><b>7 year old Dominick Stanziale</b></center>

I'll post my "confessions of a 39 year old first time snowboarder" later

Alan Schroeder · Post by **Alan Schroeder** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:01 am

Rick, when you're ready to come North to ride let me know, we'll help you out!

Join the ISSA 25 cone series. One cyber race every second month!

Regular sessions allow newbies to join our community and discover slalom racing.

New to snowboarding, need info

New to snowboarding, need info

Snowboarding- painlessly

Seattle

His Highness

agree with Gilmour... Again!

Tools

coming to Stratton?

Who's riding this year?

Re: Who's riding this year?

Im next

I dont need a lesson

reason for living

come North Rick