New to GS

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Justin Readings
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:36 am

New to GS

Post by Justin Readings » Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:09 am

Well im going to buckeye this year and i will be making a gs board soon. I was looking for some hints on setting it up.

I have one front radikal and rt-s and rt-x trucks, and a good selection of wheels. At the moment i'm looking at running my bigzags.

How loose are most people running there back trucks? I've seen a couple peoples setups and they seem to have looser (compared to the back of a ts board) backs so its easier to grip the longer turns.

any hints and tricks appreciated, i don't have a real good GS hill in Toronto.

Justin

Eric Brammer
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:48 am

G.S. stuff

Post by Eric Brammer » Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:07 pm

Justin, your back truck should be set-up stiff enough to prevent wobbles, but still let you pump fairly deep. If you prefer a stiffer tail set-up, be sure you can feel if/when the rear end would want to 'step out' or start to lose traction. Keep in mind that in G.S., there's more lateral pressure than in T.S., and you're pushing the pump a bit longer (more of a press, Vs. a jab type pump) on longer turns or deeper offsets. I hope that RTS of your has an 8mm axle. I'd set the steering at around -12* for that truck (this aligns the kingpin almost perfect vertically). I'd also recommend a fat lower bushing (Jim Z, Stim, or Radikal) in combo with barrel top bushing. Run the top bushing a few duro points stiffer than the fatter lower. A good combo would be Green Rad, with a black or yellow Khiro on top, as a possible example.

Up front, the RTX is fine, usually. Wedge it a little, like 10*, tune it with fairly soft front bushings (orange Khiros, maybe mixed with a blue or white. Soft Powell bushings do well as a top bushing), and add a dab of silicon spray to the pivot cup. The RTX is a reasonably stable front with it still being nimble enough to dice the cones. It can be set up with wedges as steep as 15*, but for G.S., I don't think you'll need that much steering input.
Watch though that the BigZigs don't rub on baseplate with the inner lip of the wheel on really deep turns. If that happens, you've got two solutions; Trim the Zig's back lip a bit; or run the next-stiffer bushing up front (provided that dosen't prevent you from making 7 ft. cones). This is an issue, btw, with Radikals, unless you've got the front axles wide enough. So, with the Rads, not only look at the bushings you're using, watch the axle width, too. Try to run as narrow as the Zigs will allow, but watch that wheel/baseplate contact potential.
Rads won't require much wedging, and will get 'nervous' if you go up past 13* up front. Let them flow, don't push for 'twitchy' steering. *8 to 11* should be fine for G.S.. With bushings, pay attention to the hanger's fit on some bushings, as the ball-knuckle sticks out a little. With Rad bushings, the curved face of the bushing fits against the hanger with very little slop. With barrels like Khiro, I trim the bushing near the center hole on one side (takes 5 min. with a roundfile) to make a space for that ball-knuckle to settle into. This means the bushing is always touching the hanger, no 'slop' to solicit the wobs with. That 'slop' btw has likely been a culprit in earlier kingpin failures on Radikals imho. Otherwise, pick your bushings to suit. The Radikal can be run pretty loose without it feeling like it'll 'wander' or wobble. Hint; I often trim Radikal bushing into conical shapes to get the exact steering feel I want. This can be done with a powerdrill,chuck the kingpin, wrap once w/ double-stick tape, put the bushing on the kingpin, use a flat bastard file to trim with..

I know, too much info. Sorry. ;-)
"Surfin' these Old Hills since back in The Day"

Justin Readings
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:36 am

Post by Justin Readings » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:34 am

haha no not to much info, the more the better.

i run a pretty stiff back truck for my weight, i think (140pounds black rad hardest stim(83a?))

so would i run looser than this for gs? I did not understand what you were getting at with the jab pump to a longer pump.

I will be running Rt x Rt s (no i don't have modified 8mm axles). I may have to do that myself if i can find true 8mm rod. Best i can ensure is facing it.

i think this question really depends on style and preference but would a stiffer board be better for gs? i usually run as stiff as i can get, but i think it would be more important in GS because if your board drifts out and the flex springs back you drift to far. Am i correct?

This questions kind of off topic but...

will mounting a truck further back on the tail of a board give it more or less grip? i can really decide, because i haven't been able to judge it fairly.

Eric Brammer
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:48 am

G.S. stuff II

Post by Eric Brammer » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:18 am

Justin, the difference in pump timing, the 'Jab' being a quick motion where you put a lot of force to the board in very little time, where the 'press' metes the pressure applied to the board out over a few tenth's of a second. Jabs will create a quick change of direction, quick excelleration, but can overpower your available traction, where the wheels 'squirm', or even chirp, which is usually a loss in time within a run. Using a longer, smoother pump, you can get good excelleration, but stay well within your traction limits, and make a rounder turn apex a cone with almost as much speed as a quick-turn does. There's less 'coasting' between cones this way, more flow from cone-to-cone. This also prevents messing up your timing with ill-planned double-pumps. Double pumps are great, if there's enough distance between cones, but really ugly if mis-timed.

Board flex is personal choice, but usually, stiffer works better, simply because it transmits power better. However, No Flex isn't good if Pumping is something you're good at. Pumping actually uses your timing of pressuring at the feet, and pushes your torso forward down the hill. The board then unweights and catches up with you. When I use an Alpine Snowboard, the excess energy is enough to get the board not only just ahead of me, but Airborne during the unweighting phase as well. On moderate terrain, I can easily be 3 ft. in the air, just from 'pumping' my turns. So, too stiff of a deck may actually slow you a bit, even though Skateboards don't have metal 'plate' bindings on them, the physics are pretty similar. Toeblocks, and/or Pocket-Pistol's foam wedges (kicktailed decks in some cases) will help in power transmission. Take your time in placing items like that on a board. Get it right, stanced just for you. It'll make your ride faster.

Rear truck placement is touchy, also. However, putting the truck further rearward will make the deck flex a bit more, and lengthen the arc the truck's axles track through in a turn. This may mean that tighter cone sets will be, um, challenging, but long-spaced cones should be fine, and security at speed should increase a bit. Traction may get better or worse, depends not only on the deck's build, but your foot placement. Having your foot lead the rear axle will keep traction 'flex regulated'. Having the rear foot directly over the axle is best for traction, but takes away a smidge of board flex and thus a bit of excelleration is lost, though that can be mitigated by the traction increase. Putting the foot behind the rear axle takes away from flex pumping, turns it instead into decambering, thus deceleration(or worse, front-end Lift). This decambering also makes the rear truck lose a bit (a few degrees of negative wedging) of steering if the deck flexes enough. In keeping the rear truck on a shorter wheelbase, pay attention to your back-foot placement, be just over the axle, not behind it. The shorter wheelbase will take a tighter arc with a given truck-tension/wedge kit, so watch for oversteering on longer cone placements. Again, this is all personal preference type stuff. If you can run a 'squirrelly' loose, tight-turning board at a good G.S. type clip, do it. Likewise, if you can make a more stable, long-turning set-up slice+dice at will, run that. Usually, somewhere inbetween is the right compromise.
"Surfin' these Old Hills since back in The Day"

Justin Readings
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:36 am

Post by Justin Readings » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:24 pm

thanks for all the help.

im drilling the holes on this board in the same place as the last couple i have done to keep it consistant. My board has a tiny bit of flex (im not skillful enough to control that when building a board yet)

Alan James Powell
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:12 am
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Post by Alan James Powell » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:11 am

This is a great thread, thx!
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