General Grip

Slalom skateboard wheels

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Adam Daniels
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General Grip

Post by Adam Daniels » Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:01 am

Right now i am running avalons that i have trimmed 4mm off of by myself and i was wondering what sort of wheels have the most grip as far as slalom goes. i don't really care about speed or carry through, i just want to know what wheels stick like glue to the pavement. mostly i was wondering about the comparison between avalons, trimmed avalons, and grippins. manx would be cool to through into the mix as well. i would like to know how these wheels compare to each other on the exact same setup.

please, i would wish to have responses from people that have ridden most of these wheels. thanks in advance for your help.

i ask this question because i have had bad experiences with my rear end slipping out from various different reasons and i would like the get my board setup with the stickiest rear wheels as i can get my hands on. right now i am running 74a trimmed (only 4mm on the outside lip) 3dm avalons in the rear and 80a turner trimmed avalons in the front (trimmed 4mm on the outside lip again) but soon i will be replacing the front wheels because they are chunking.

thanks
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Post by Guest » Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:44 am

Some general rules, nothing that is a secret anywhere...


Grip level 10
In general a coned un-trimmed 3dm Avalon in will give the maximum grip one can get on a slalom board. 80a works for most adults but if you weight under 160'ish you might want to give 78a or under a try. The more coning in the wheel the more grip. However after a certian point (maybe a few mms on the inner edge) you start dropping straight-line speed quickly. Also the more the wheel is coned ther scarier slides become. When the wheel let's go the outer edge will start gripping and ungripping (skipping) which will throw you off the board. Best keep these puppies on the back of your board, they don't make good front wheels.

Grip level 9
A brand new un-trimmed 3dm Avalon will give you the next level of grip, slightly less than coned wheels but faster in a straight line. Take the shiney skin off them. Brand new out of the box wheels will always feel slippy until the skin is gone.

Grip level 7
Abec 11 Grippins will give you the next level of grip. Not as much as new 3dm Avalons and due to Abec 11's softer (sub 84a) urethane formulas they will be slower in a straight line that soft 3dm wheels. However Grippins slide nicely, they are easy to slide for braking and/or making the tail of the board slip around offsets. Also they are faster edge to edge than Avalons, even trimmed ones. Due to them being centerset coning doesn't change their grip level much. Also being center-set they narrow your truck width nicely making them pretty kick ass wheel for tight'ish or technical courses.

Grip level 5
Slightly Trimmed 3dm Avalons (under 5mm shaved off the outer lips) will be next in grip. They will slide and slide alot, however they are semi preditable and easy to catch. Stright line speed is very good, much better than full Avalons or Grippins. For what passes as TS courses now-a-days these are your best choice. Ok grip and good stright line speed. Trimmed wheels sacrifice grip for edge to edge quickness and better sliding. Depending on course tpe, truck width and rider's ability these wheels can be used front and back.

Grip level 4
Abec 11 Flashbacks. People don't use these much anymore for slalom...but they rock. They grip about the same as slightly trimmed Avalons but slide much nicer and hook up smoother. Riders that can make these work for slalom are few and far between but when they work they work well. See note below about Abec 11 urethane. On a super hot day on a decent surface in direct sun on fairly open hybrid course with minmal offsets nothing is faster than hard flashbacks (92a/88a) under a good rider's feet.

Grip level 3
Very Trimmed 3dm Avalons (over 5mm). They don't offer much in the way of grip but they slide well, catch back up well and are fast in a straight line. On a TS deck, where you are over the trucks you can make up for the grip problem with shifting your weight around on the board. Trimmed wheels sacrifice grip for edge to edge quickness and better sliding. Best used for front wheels only.


I don't ride Manx, never had much use for them...however those I know who do and what I know about how they grip I would put their grip level somewhere around a 8, however their slides are a bit sketchy and they don't seem to carry as much speed as Avalons.

And...
3dm urethane is far superior in softer duros (sub 85a)
Abec 11 urethane is far superior in harder duros (over 88a)

These are just general rules, know that truck choice, axles, bearing spacers, truck width, wheelbase length, wedging, flex of the deck and rider skill level all play important roles. As does course type, offsets, and surface condition/temperature. Also Avilas, Gumballs, Cambrias and Stradas can factor in and have their uses...but in general if you don't want to fuss with wheels much 3dm avalons are the way to go.
Last edited by Guest on Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:05 am, edited 7 times in total.

Adam Daniels
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Post by Adam Daniels » Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:55 am

so i trimmed my 74a's for nothing? that stinks.

hm....guess i will try them a little longer after my setup is the way i want it and i'll touch base

and BTW-awesome information right there. thanks a bunch
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Steve Collins
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Post by Steve Collins » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:59 pm

Adam, if you really want to know what grips best, take a close look at the wheels that the guys who are winning races are riding. Different riders have different results with different wheels. Results are what matter. Grippier usually means faster, at least as far as slalom goes. Look at what the faster racers ride. An individual could be predisposed for or against certain wheels for reasons other than performance. Look at the results.

Tod Oles
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Post by Tod Oles » Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:44 am

Adam,

I see by your avitar that you are a young gun and probably on the lighter side...If so,

A larger diameter wheel like an Avalon in softer durometers will not grip as well as a small diameter wheel such as a Cambria given the same durometer....

Obviously roll speed (inertia) will be less with the smaller wheel, but, my point is, you may be "floating" on to much urethane when using larger wheels and roll speed may be a trait in a wheel you'll have to give up for sheer grip....remember, you can't fool physical laws......

Try a set of Cambrias in the softer range just on the back and see how that works.......

Later, Tod
Last edited by Tod Oles on Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Marty Schaub
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E.F. Oles?

Post by Marty Schaub » Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:56 pm

Adam,

When Lemonboy speaks, people listen.

You've gotten some good advice here. Now you have to practically apply it, as Lemonboy states, to your racing style. Get the gear and Practice, Practice, Practice.

Oh and I am sure that Tod likes your pic as you wear the same gloves as he does.
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Adam Daniels
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Post by Adam Daniels » Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:35 pm

great advice. what duros are cambrias available in?

and my weight is about 92lbs at the moment and i really like to get all the grip in the rear as i can because on toeside turns it seems that i really push the rear end with my back foot A LOT....

and where is the best place to get cambrias? anyone have any for cheap?

thanks

one more question-does the turner brand of cambrias/avalons/avilas tend to chunk more? because i noticed that my 80a turner avalons chunk a lot on the lip

thanks again
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Tod Oles
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Post by Tod Oles » Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:10 pm

Yo, Old Lacosta Boy

Adam and I are styleee Gods with the hand warmers.....Getcha sum bro..... :-)

BTW, the lemon neckerchief is quite the accessory with the gloves and considering your attire
at the Farm retro race, you'd love the look......


As for you Adam,

Cambrias come in a 78a that is really fast, and I've had good luck teaching some younger
(lighter weight riders) on them. Also 74a is available....I think Asphaltplayground.com has them...

Good luck with your skating, Tod
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Marty Schaub
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Tod as Steve

Post by Marty Schaub » Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:10 pm

Tod,

I did not want to do the hankerchief/neckerchief thang as people might mistake me for Steve Cathey.
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Post by Tod Oles » Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:15 pm

You have a valid point.......nuff said
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Adam Daniels
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Post by Adam Daniels » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:08 am

Here's an interesting question, since coned wheels grip more. why don't companies offer pre-coned wheels?
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Wesley Tucker
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:21 am

Adam,

Because wheels cone out in reaction to a rider's style. Many things affect the way a wheel will get deformed: rider weight, the truck, the way it's trimmed before it cones, the wheelbase and flex of the board, and on and on. Every imaginable variable will then lead to every imaginable variation in the wheels. So a coned wheel performs well after a rider has "broken it in."

Just getting a "pre-coned" wheel would not necessarily give you the results you want. You'd still have to ride it all to hell and back to get it where you want it. Plus, there's no guarantee the wheel that is already deformed will continue to reshape itself to the degree you want for the best performace.

And don't forget: the same can be said of buying used wheels that are alread coned. You're a definite middle weight. What if you buy coned-out wheels from a guy 25, 30 or 50 pounds heavier than you? You might end up with a wheel that your riding weight would not be able to deform and you'd just be riding on the edges of the wheel and get even less traction. Bummer.

Not everything has a short cut. Sometimes you just gotta work hard to make it work better.
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Adam Daniels
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Post by Adam Daniels » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:29 am

It all makes sense now. Thanks for the info.

So I am guessing it takes a very, very long time to cone a wheel?
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HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric
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Post by HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric » Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:34 am

Adam Daniels wrote: So I am guessing it takes a very, very long time to cone a wheel?
Only if you use it....
Podium or pavement... but PAVEL !

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Adam Daniels
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Post by Adam Daniels » Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:11 pm

well i have good news.......

no i didn't go to geico and blah blah blah, but i did notice that my rear 74a avalons have indeed started to cone! seems like i have been doing something right....


Thanks for the help guys
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Ramón Königshausen
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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:33 pm

Some can't await the coning of their wheels and I would love they never did!

haha

rmn
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Post by Mike Cividino » Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:05 pm

Ramón Königshausen wrote:Some can't await the coning of their wheels and I would love they never did!

haha

rmn
im with you.

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