ISSA - International Slalom Skateboarding Association

OK:

The Phase One(on the Tracker RT-X baseplate) was made to be a rear truck but if positive wedged 15 degrees it makes a good front end, especially for flat ground tight slalom, it actually produces the sensation of "pulling" you similar to a Radikal front especially if you have developed good front foot technique in a surf stance. This is my ALL TIME FAVORITE REAR TRUCK FOR TIGHT AND TIGHT HYBRID/GENERAL courses. I own 2 and I LOVE them, Just like I LOVE WAX AND GARY. Ok, so that was over the top but I had to do it.

The Phase Two and Three changed geometry and used a new hanger that fit onto both a Randall II baseplate for use as a front truck or Randall Downhill baseplate for a more dampened rear truck. Good trucks, good traction, very stable at high speed but I just couldn't get the front to turn as much as I wanted for Tight courses but great for bigger courses.

The "Pro(?)" was a Phase Three with the addtion of a ball-bushing or knuckle-bearing built into the hanger to interface with the kingpin to remove all slack and slop and make for an immediate precise response similar to the Radikal. I never owned or rode one since I posess plenty of trucks already, but everyone I've talked to likes them.

In Comparison, the Airflow OS is very similar to the Splitfire Phase One and one of my slalom buddies we will call Pat Chewning is bigger than he used to be and his Airflow OS's have held up spectacularly and since Splitfires are currently not being made, I would get and Airflow OS if I wanted a good simple reliable rear truck. I don't know what the pivot screw is like, but if it's an allen-key hex screw and not rounded, just fill the hex-hole with JB Weld brand metal epoxy, bake it for one or two hours at 200 degrees to make it harder and cure faster, then put it in an electric drill or lathe and use a fine toothed metal file to round it to a sphere and polish it off with some emery cloth.

That's my story and I'm sticking too it. Wax or Gary can correct any incorrect details of my post. Good Luck - Paul

Ok good. We know there are several other good products out there that have their own topics too. So would you please be so kind and discuss those issues in a topic they belong to and return to the original topic:

Lenny Poage wrote:I saw that Sk8kings is now offering Airflow trucks. I've heard of them, but haven't heard any reviews, good, bad, or otherwise, about these trucks. I'm curious. What're people saying?

thanks,
rmn

expect s.th. adjustable for the front from G.O.G ! I only don't know exactly when !
Protos are doing well !

No wedging anymore !

Brains been active for a while in that department. I cant understand why dudes keep making trucks that you have to wedge to no end just to get them to turn well. Its been 40 years and no one has worked it out yet. They all seem to be taking the same design and making it more fancy and tecnical. Its diabolical!
Forget the lathe, I have access to 2 jet cutters. I have a thousand things going on right now but as soon as i get the time, im on it!

Greg Ambler wrote:Hmmm interesting.

So in reality there are only 2 trucks of pro status for the front, Racetrack - X and GOG? Without modification of course. I am leaving out Seismic, it takes a core Seismic enthusiast to ride these.

Sounds like you have the sketch pad out Greg?
Do you have access to a lathe?

Hmmm interesting.

So in reality there are only 2 trucks of pro status for the front, Racetrack - X and GOG? Without modification of course. I am leaving out Seismic, it takes a core Seismic enthusiast to ride these.

Wesley Tucker wrote:

Malcolm Stooke wrote:i was never a fan of a split on the front. mabey for faster gs it would work but for anything else it turned too slow, it felt like using an rts as a front. imo one truck design cant do both jobs in slalom.

The DHBs who ride front Splits (Evan, Marion, etc.,) did a modification they say exponentially improved performance: substitute a longer kingpin and add a THIRD bushing - one between the hanger and baseplate and two between the hanger and locknut.

Worked for me.

Malcolm Stooke wrote:i was never a fan of a split on the front. mabey for faster gs it would work but for anything else it turned too slow, it felt like using an rts as a front. imo one truck design cant do both jobs in slalom.

The DHBs who ride front Splits (Evan, Marion, etc.,) did a modification they say exponentially improved performance: substitute a longer kingpin and add a THIRD bushing - one between the hanger and baseplate and two between the hanger and locknut.

i was never a fan of a split on the front. mabey for faster gs it would work but for anything else it turned too slow, it felt like using an rts as a front. imo one truck design cant do both jobs in slalom.

*Borat voice* VERY NICE! *Borat voice*

Yeh the thought has crossed my mind a few times Adrian, dont you worry. But a Splitfire on the front? Ive heard plenty a good rave with them as a back truck. Just how do the perform as a front?

Tim,

how many you want? With or without hanger bearing?

Cheers mate

Adrian

PS. still need that 129 RTX?

Toby Warg wrote:

Tim Robinson wrote: Toby if you read my post I said we also still make them.
I have no idea if they are metric though as I haven't been near a Holden with a spanner since about 1978. I think it is Toyota who are number 1 in Australia.
I know they have 19mm wheel nuts as they fit on my Alfa

I still think it's funny that you think that Sweden is a part of the USA..

Toby , I was only having a go at the Yanks. I'm on your side.

Tim Robinson wrote: Toby if you read my post I said we also still make them.
I have no idea if they are metric though as I haven't been near a Holden with a spanner since about 1978. I think it is Toyota who are number 1 in Australia.
I know they have 19mm wheel nuts as they fit on my Alfa

I still think it's funny that you think that Sweden is a part of the USA..

Thought about that but not made any more.
I'm setting up a 36inch Ick Stick. Probably with Cortech 77mm or Avilas.

Tim,

what about a Splitfire Front?

Cheers

Adrian

No mate , do you?? I'm looking for 1 RTX 129mm. I thought there may be a few sets of Radikals going up for sale , and there are but at almost full price. I think the Fyre trucks will be the go or Geezers Sputnik if he ever builds it. I was looking at my Airflow and thinking if only somewon would make a front hanger along those lines. That way we can still pump around town on them without fear of breaking a king pin. The Geezer Bennett looks nice for a slalom front. The Fyre should be at a more afordable price and with many baseplate options will be easy to tune to your preferences. How do you like your Rads?

Hey Tim,
Got anything front truck wise that you want to part with?

Greg
BTS

Toby Warg wrote:

Tim Robinson wrote:Your skate tool will fit both.

1 day when you guys finally go metric you will wonder why it took you soooo long.
You are so far behind ,still making gas guzzling push rod engines even!
Move into this century.

ok ok , thats a bit harsh...sorry

My skate tool does not fit both. I know, because I tried it.

Sorry to say it, but Sweden has been metric for a long time. And what about Holden? Get your facts straight.

Toby if you read my post I said we also still make them.
I have no idea if they are metric though as I haven't been near a Holden with a spanner since about 1978. I think it is Toyota who are number 1 in Australia.
I know they have 19mm wheel nuts as they fit on my Alfa

Steve Collins wrote:BTW, my skate tool works on my Airflow's metric nuts, sort of. It's an odd tight fit, but it does work.

Well, actually my Fixstix works, but not my Alpha Microtool, which is made with more precision.
Interesting though that the truck is all SAE and the wheels/bearings all metric.

Well, without having checked on their availabilty in Europe, I guess we would have to import those threads or produce them on custom request, which would only increase the price of the truck. - Is it worth paying more just for that it is not metric?

The tool issue: I'm using the Tracker skatetool on all of my trucks with metric nuts (Maguns and G.O.G. as well) - trouble-free.

rmn

I've had an Airflow truck for a few years and, strangely, have never lost a nut.

I wonder if it would be worthwhile for Airflow to produce a 5/16"x24 thread option. It would really only be those little axle bits that would be different.

BTW, my skate tool works on my Airflow's metric nuts, sort of. It's an odd tight fit, but it does work.

Ramón Königshausen wrote:do there exist bearings with SAE specs at all?

I've seen bearings made to fit on a 5/16" axle/shaft. They also had the same outer diameter as a 608 bearing, but they were "thicker" than a 608 bearing and thus part of the bearing would've extended, unsupported, beyond the wheel core. The only way they'd really work would be in a wheel with an extended bearing seat. I seem to recall some old '80s park wheels that were like that. It seemed to take half an hour to get bearings in and out of them! All in all, too much hassle, IMO.

Lenny Poage wrote:Here's a random but relevant question. How wide-spread are Trackers, Indies, Radikal, Randall, Bennett (or any number of other) trucks that have SAE specs outside of the U.S.? And do you guys outside the U.S. have the trouble with them that evidently U.S. skaters have with Airflow?

We have troubles insofar as the bearing sit is not as precise as it could be. So sometimes you cannot fully tighten the nut, and even if you fully tighten the nut there's still some play. (metric bearing vs. SAE axle)

Since you allegedly have the same bearings as we have, do there exist bearings with SAE specs at all?

rmn

Tim Robinson wrote:Your skate tool will fit both.

1 day when you guys finally go metric you will wonder why it took you soooo long.
You are so far behind ,still making gas guzzling push rod engines even!
Move into this century.

ok ok , thats a bit harsh...sorry

My skate tool does not fit both. I know, because I tried it.

Sorry to say it, but Sweden has been metric for a long time. And what about Holden? Get your facts straight.

Lenny Poage wrote:Here's a random but relevant question. How wide-spread are Trackers, Indies, Radikal, Randall, Bennett (or any number of other) trucks that have SAE specs outside of the U.S.? And do you guys outside the U.S. have the trouble with them that evidently U.S. skaters have with Airflow?

By the way, I came to work today in my Japanese gas sipping car. We're not all driving '57 Chevys with baby seal skin seat covers, you know.

No Lenny , but your still making them!
So are we though.......


I think most Ausies would have non metric tools around and most of our Marine stuff is still in the old fashioned sizes.
Personally I wish we (here in Aus) could just go full metric for everything.
its as easy as 1,2,3........literally.

Oh by the way.......re the Airflows , I like my set more than my Radikal rear. The Rad turns more and so the Airflow feels a little less whippy. I always feel like I'm about to loose the back end on the Rad. I de wedge it to take some of the turn out..............But I am far from an expert. I just like riding nice equipment and know what feels good under my feet. They feel light years better than a very de wedged RTS.

Here's a random but relevant question. How wide-spread are Trackers, Indies, Radikal, Randall, Bennett (or any number of other) trucks that have SAE specs outside of the U.S.? And do you guys outside the U.S. have the trouble with them that evidently U.S. skaters have with Airflow?

By the way, I came to work today in my Japanese gas sipping car. We're not all driving '57 Chevys with baby seal skin seat covers, you know.

Toby Warg wrote:I say stick to what's been working for quite a few years now.
Ok, if truck companies would send me a metric skatetool with the metric trucks, I'd be happy, but they don't, so I have to get regular tools for them. Now, this is not a problem in metric Sweden, but I bet it's as difficult is the US, as it is for me to get SAE tools here.

You can always do as Kahalani though. SAE kingpin and metric wheel nuts/threads. Try to find a skatetool that does that trick!

Your skate tool will fit both.

1 day when you guys finally go metric you will wonder why it took you soooo long.
You are so far behind ,still making gas guzzling push rod engines even!
Move into this century.

ok ok , thats a bit harsh...sorry

Adrian Alderson wrote:Stupid suggestion here from me but why not just keep to the standard that is adopted worldwide?

Cheers

Adrian from metric Oz

Ditto.


rmn

I say stick to what's been working for quite a few years now.
Ok, if truck companies would send me a metric skatetool with the metric trucks, I'd be happy, but they don't, so I have to get regular tools for them. Now, this is not a problem in metric Sweden, but I bet it's as difficult is the US, as it is for me to get SAE tools here.

You can always do as Kahalani though. SAE kingpin and metric wheel nuts/threads. Try to find a skatetool that does that trick!

Adrian Alderson wrote:Stupid suggestion here from me but why not just keep to the standard that is adopted worldwide?

Cheers

Adrian from metric Oz

Cause we don't want to.

Stupid suggestion here from me but why not just keep to the standard that is adopted worldwide?

Cheers

Adrian from metric Oz

I guess the answer is "how big are Crail and Force? Are they more able to absorb the cost of making and marketing two seperate versions of the same truck?"

One of the big drawbacks to being a slalom manufacturer today is the market is so small. Hell, there's only 1000 of us max. If all the manufacturers in the world get all the slalomers to buy one of their products, that's a total of a 1000 units.

The cost of just one special run of a differently threaded axle or king bolt might be prohibitive. It's easy to say, "just make two versions," but if it drives up the per unit cost of already very expensive component then it's probably not a good idea.

Dave Gale wrote:Wesley, Dan's math is correct. Abec 101's are 4". I spoke with Chris years ago after I broke his code os 11 ie: used to be all of his wheels mm measurements added up to 11...65mm 74mm 83mm 92mm and 101mm ...The downhill rules stated that 4" was the maximum allowed size for wheels in sanctioned races. Chris made the wheels 101 to max out the scale, he luckily also created another math equation equaling 11 .

Uhhhhh,

What's that got to do with FOUR INCH road riders, park riders and UFOs? (which I believer were 2.25")

I'm hassling you, Poindexter. Don't change the subject.

Wesley, Dan's math is correct. Abec 101's are 4". I spoke with Chris years ago after I broke his code os 11 ie: used to be all of his wheels mm measurements added up to 11...65mm 74mm 83mm 92mm and 101mm ...The downhill rules stated that 4" was the maximum allowed size for wheels in sanctioned races. Chris made the wheels 101 to max out the scale, he luckily also created another math equation equaling 11 .

Wesley Tucker wrote:

Dave Gale wrote:I own 4" Roadriders and 4"Parkriders as well as 4"U.F.Os .

Dan Mitchell wrote:we in the US were much too concerned with converting metric to SAE and vice versa. Who cares how many litres makes a gallon. A litre is a litre! Get used to it!

I wanna know how BIG those FOUR INCH ROAD RIDERS are in metric!

They'd be 10.16cm, that's as big as the biggest of ABEC11's Flywheels.
(Btw. Macintosh's Dashboard's got a nice converting gadget)

rmn

PS: Seems like this has become a pretty interesting off-topic discussion.

Dave Gale wrote:I own 4" Roadriders and 4"Parkriders as well as 4"U.F.Os .

Dan Mitchell wrote:we in the US were much too concerned with converting metric to SAE and vice versa. Who cares how many litres makes a gallon. A litre is a litre! Get used to it!

I wanna know how BIG those FOUR INCH ROAD RIDERS are in metric!

Maybe a bit off topic....
Many years ago I heard a guy on the radio discussing the US trying to adapt to metric.

His point was that we in the US were much too concerned with converting metric to SAE and vice versa. Who cares how many litres makes a gallon. A litre is a litre! Get used to it!

I think that if the US had taken this approach back in the '70's we'd have been using the metric standard for a long time and could have avoided the silly confusion.

Jim Weatherwax wrote: Main problem for most still is if their front truck is standard, and the back is metric problems can occour if not being cautious during wheel swaps (ie: too many smoke breaks!). ...

Agreed.

It would truly be simplistic if the standard was metric all around! Fact is ..it aint! I remember the rumors of the U.S.A going metric in the 70's..it fizzled. I own 4" Roadriders and 4"Parkriders as well as 4"U.F.Os . The "standard mounting holes are S.A.E. the bearings are 608 "metric" the spacers are 10mm(unless you convert to the 3rd decimal S.A.E )Wheelbase is in inches, as well as deck length speeds are mostly recorded in M.P.H ...I Land survey, and measure in poles, rods and links(converted to ..tenths of feet) But the only true standard is ....time! 24 hours, 60 minutes and 60 seconds.
They problem still lies in the availability and ease of acquiring metric hardware of good qaulity..That being said, Grade (8) king pins are another standard.

Ramon wrote "Yeah Wax, that sounds pretty reasonable. Would it be more confortable if the trucks came along with 2 spare nuts already? (rhetoric question)

rmn"

Main problem for most still is if their front truck is standard, and the back is metric problems can occour if not being cautious during wheel swaps (ie: too many smoke breaks!). I am in nut and bolt suppliers every day, so getting spares for anything isnt a problem for me

Martin Siegrist wrote:sorry if it sounded a bit harsh. you're right!

but why are wheel sizes in mm?

Wheels were measured in metric about the same time as "608" bearing were installed in 1975. Before we had "big 2 and half inch Stobies," "little 2 inch DaKines." Then with Kryptonics we started getting "C-65s" and "C-62s" and everything's been metric since.

I've always thought it was because the wheel makers didn't want to mix and match measurements. Wheels measured in inches and cores measured in millimeters didn't make a whole lot of sense.

Of course we never did figure out why the entire industry went with 8 mm bearing discs and stuck with 5/16" axles. Even today it's considered a "modification" or "special feature" to get a treaded rod matching the bearings.

Martin Siegrist wrote:sorry if it sounded a bit harsh. you're right!

but why are wheel sizes in mm?

Maybe because people hate fractions and decimals even more than the metric system?

Yeah Wax, that sounds pretty reasonable. Would it be more confortable if the trucks came along with 2 spare nuts already? (rhetoric question)

rmn

Jim Weatherwax wrote: Its just so much simpler for US riders to get SAE hardware at local skateshops or hardware store, thats all, no performance difference

Good point. I love going to Lowe's when I need to work on my board. It's pretty cheap and I feel like a macho man. LOL Any hope of some airflow mods that have US standard sizes?

It looks like this turned out to be a pretty lively discussion.

nothing against Metric, hell, 50% of the machines that I work on have metric nuts/bolts/bearings/shafts etc

Its just so much simpler for US riders to get SAE hardware at local skateshops or hardware store, thats all, no performance difference

sorry if it sounded a bit harsh. you're right!

but why are wheel sizes in mm?

For whatever reason, in general, certain standards do exist in the world of skateboarding .
Boards are measured in inches, wheels in mm's, duro's using the shore A scale, etc. It grew up a mixed standard and it really hasn't been a problem. I hate it when a company gives board specs in cms because i can't make the instant mental comparison to all the other boards i have.

Axel nuts are such a trivial thing, its no innovation to use a metric one, just an inconvenience. I have an Airflow rear, the only thing i didn't like about it was the nut, and i live in Europe. Sure my skate tool fits, but not the same as on a standard S.A.E. nut.

Its no big deal, for reasons of convenience or pride you chose to use a non-standard metric axle nut. As a manufacturer its at your discretion, i respect that.

I don't think that means its OK to slag off everyone who has your truck a thinks for good reason, 'why doesn't my wrench fit right?' or 'i lost a nut and none of my spares fit'.

I think you know we are going to have this natural reaction, we just expect you to have a little humility toward us regarding this.

SI base units

Name Symbol Quantity
metre m Length
kilogram kg Mass
second s Time
ampere A Electrical Current
kelvin K Thermodynamic temperature
mole mol Amount of substance
candela cd Luminous intensity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_Unit

rmn