Hybrid Core Proto
Moderator: Alex Luxat
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- Posts: 94
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Hybrid Core Proto
So here it is. The deck I wanted to build for a long time now.
I´s not super new in terms of shape and look but really different from the concept. [EDIT (especially for Donald)] different from what I did before![/EDIT]
It´s "core" consists of a single ply ash veneer (1.25 mm) and a 6mm Airex foamcore.
I wanted to build a deck that has the vibration dampening, flex and rebound (a little bit faster rebound) of our ashcore in combination with the lightness and fast response of our pure foamcore decks.
If I succeeded I´ll see when I have ridden the deck. (It´s raining hard at the moment but I´m quite optimistic so far.)
84cm x 21.5cm x 9mm / 33" x 8.5" X 0.35"
With 9mm overall thickness it´s now as thin as our ash-veneer decks.
Wheelbases (truckbases / inner holes): 54,5 / 56,5 / 58,5 cm (21.5"/22.25"/23") good for a wide range of hybrid and GS courses.
It weighs exactly 700g / 1.54 lb (yeah that´s light but 100-150g more than our pure foam decks).
I have just mounted it but not ridden it yet.
It has a nice flex but it eventually might need more torsion-control/-stiffness.
It´s flat when I´m standing on it and flexes down about 1-1.5" when "pumping" it while standing.
I might use triax-glass on the bottom as well. I have to ride this first and then decide.
I have not yet gripped it and am thinking about using bigger gritted sand and epoxy as a clear grip to preserve the wood look of the top.
Any advice/suggestions on what kind of sand/grit to use?
(and I REALLY want it grippy (like Edger) but don´t want to cut my fingers, so no glass splinters.)
People will go "WHA...?" when they see you riding and just see the "wood" and the 2mm edge.
Ash-veneer below triax glass.
Note the "stretch-cuts" I made to prevent tearing of the veneer when bent in the cambered and concave mold.
Texalium bottom, wider tail and overall shape
Camber and concave, 9mm overall thickness
I´s not super new in terms of shape and look but really different from the concept. [EDIT (especially for Donald)] different from what I did before![/EDIT]
It´s "core" consists of a single ply ash veneer (1.25 mm) and a 6mm Airex foamcore.
I wanted to build a deck that has the vibration dampening, flex and rebound (a little bit faster rebound) of our ashcore in combination with the lightness and fast response of our pure foamcore decks.
If I succeeded I´ll see when I have ridden the deck. (It´s raining hard at the moment but I´m quite optimistic so far.)
84cm x 21.5cm x 9mm / 33" x 8.5" X 0.35"
With 9mm overall thickness it´s now as thin as our ash-veneer decks.
Wheelbases (truckbases / inner holes): 54,5 / 56,5 / 58,5 cm (21.5"/22.25"/23") good for a wide range of hybrid and GS courses.
It weighs exactly 700g / 1.54 lb (yeah that´s light but 100-150g more than our pure foam decks).
I have just mounted it but not ridden it yet.
It has a nice flex but it eventually might need more torsion-control/-stiffness.
It´s flat when I´m standing on it and flexes down about 1-1.5" when "pumping" it while standing.
I might use triax-glass on the bottom as well. I have to ride this first and then decide.
I have not yet gripped it and am thinking about using bigger gritted sand and epoxy as a clear grip to preserve the wood look of the top.
Any advice/suggestions on what kind of sand/grit to use?
(and I REALLY want it grippy (like Edger) but don´t want to cut my fingers, so no glass splinters.)
People will go "WHA...?" when they see you riding and just see the "wood" and the 2mm edge.
Ash-veneer below triax glass.
Note the "stretch-cuts" I made to prevent tearing of the veneer when bent in the cambered and concave mold.
Texalium bottom, wider tail and overall shape
Camber and concave, 9mm overall thickness
Last edited by Alex Luxat on Sun May 08, 2005 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Pavel
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it is good to see that you are "evolving" a bit in construction and shape,alex.
here are a few hints from the guy who brought up the topic of hybrid constructions 8 months ago.(that's when i started mixing wood with foam and glass.we went through at least 50 of those decks before we came to terms with what we wanted.
first off i would suggest that you use a different wood as top-layer.
i would recommend canadian hard-rock maple,the strongest wood for skateboards out there.
ash doesn't give you the desired result in performance.
you don't have to cut the wood in any places for the mould you are using,trust my experience!!!
the foam-airex- is very soft and you can dent it easily,thats why you use wooden inserts.i would make sure that the foam and the inserts are sanded down to the same height,everything else looks disturbing.also those wooden inlays limit you camber in the truck positions.you have to make sure that those areas are absolutely straight,or else you run into problems.
we use a different high-density foam which outperforms airex easily and the best thing about it is,that you don't have the need for any kind of insert in the truck area.
your truck holes are not running straight.check <our front truck holes,they are off.
best thing to use is a drill-guide for that.
putting so much camber into the deck seems to me abit oldschoolish.
that's deinitely no raceboard you wanted to build,am i right?
you know that all our friends took a step away from the cambered boards and that they like em flat,concave,rockered.
you should try the board by racing it and you will notice that aggressive pumping will lower the deck way more than pumping on the carpet.maybe hand the board to a few experienced riders and listen to what they say regarding the performance,that might come in quite handy from time to time.i do all my research with my riders and their feedback to create the utmost in performance and shape.
i did a deck which weighs only 500 g just for the fun of building it.actually that board is still alive and out there in your neighbourhood.
your shape needs a bit more work too,you finally realized that wider tails deliver better performance than narrow tails.i would tend to add a bit more "flesh" to the nose-section,so that there's more pressure on the front-truck during turns and pumps.
maybe you have the chance to meet one of our team-riders in cologne and you can take a peek at modern,efficient board construction.or maybe we'll meet at one of the next races.
you can find us all at paris,grueningen,stockholm,hannover,morro.
all in all your approach to hybrid material construction is a very nice start into a very complicated subject.
here are a few hints from the guy who brought up the topic of hybrid constructions 8 months ago.(that's when i started mixing wood with foam and glass.we went through at least 50 of those decks before we came to terms with what we wanted.
first off i would suggest that you use a different wood as top-layer.
i would recommend canadian hard-rock maple,the strongest wood for skateboards out there.
ash doesn't give you the desired result in performance.
you don't have to cut the wood in any places for the mould you are using,trust my experience!!!
the foam-airex- is very soft and you can dent it easily,thats why you use wooden inserts.i would make sure that the foam and the inserts are sanded down to the same height,everything else looks disturbing.also those wooden inlays limit you camber in the truck positions.you have to make sure that those areas are absolutely straight,or else you run into problems.
we use a different high-density foam which outperforms airex easily and the best thing about it is,that you don't have the need for any kind of insert in the truck area.
your truck holes are not running straight.check <our front truck holes,they are off.
best thing to use is a drill-guide for that.
putting so much camber into the deck seems to me abit oldschoolish.
that's deinitely no raceboard you wanted to build,am i right?
you know that all our friends took a step away from the cambered boards and that they like em flat,concave,rockered.
you should try the board by racing it and you will notice that aggressive pumping will lower the deck way more than pumping on the carpet.maybe hand the board to a few experienced riders and listen to what they say regarding the performance,that might come in quite handy from time to time.i do all my research with my riders and their feedback to create the utmost in performance and shape.
i did a deck which weighs only 500 g just for the fun of building it.actually that board is still alive and out there in your neighbourhood.
your shape needs a bit more work too,you finally realized that wider tails deliver better performance than narrow tails.i would tend to add a bit more "flesh" to the nose-section,so that there's more pressure on the front-truck during turns and pumps.
maybe you have the chance to meet one of our team-riders in cologne and you can take a peek at modern,efficient board construction.or maybe we'll meet at one of the next races.
you can find us all at paris,grueningen,stockholm,hannover,morro.
all in all your approach to hybrid material construction is a very nice start into a very complicated subject.
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Donald, we all know how outperforming great and top-notch advanced your decks are.
I know that you just constantly try to help with your paternal advice.
I also know that there is not a bit malevolence in it.
So thank you for your kind advice but I prefer to keep on building the way I do now.
I like to explore the possibilities of different materials for myself.
It´s called research and developement.
(even if it seems "oldschoolish" compared to your fast products)
I also like diversity and there is an audience for my decks.
(have you checked: Longboarddirectory.com Excellence Awards?)
Why should I build your way?
Is your way the only "true" one?
Anyway: If you have read the Headline of the topic you would have noticed that it says "Proto" (as in work in progress). You have never seen the deck besides on the pics.
I would be happy if I would find one sharp pic of your decks anywhere on the web.
(At the moment here on ISSA is one (1) pic of Paul holding his sig.-model and showing some griptape. The other pics which were hosted on cruisin.de are gone since you left us. I would fix that!)
Of course I am really astounded on how experienced you are on the matter of composite construction after the few months you practice it now.
I think it´s good for the sport to have diversity in shapes and construction.
I wish you luck with your approach and hope that you get your finishes right by now.
PS: I first thought about simply deleting your post cause I know exactly how it is meant. But I think it´s the same game as on www.cruisin.de - where you are no longer a member - it shows exactly your character and as long I have a chance to react I´ll just do that.
I would much prefer if you would keep your kind advice for yourself and not abuse my category for your propaganda.
Have a nice day!
(Weren´t Ick and PPS the guys who brought up hybrid constructions YEARS ago?)
I know that you just constantly try to help with your paternal advice.
I also know that there is not a bit malevolence in it.
So thank you for your kind advice but I prefer to keep on building the way I do now.
I like to explore the possibilities of different materials for myself.
It´s called research and developement.
(even if it seems "oldschoolish" compared to your fast products)
I also like diversity and there is an audience for my decks.
(have you checked: Longboarddirectory.com Excellence Awards?)
Why should I build your way?
Is your way the only "true" one?
Anyway: If you have read the Headline of the topic you would have noticed that it says "Proto" (as in work in progress). You have never seen the deck besides on the pics.
I would be happy if I would find one sharp pic of your decks anywhere on the web.
(At the moment here on ISSA is one (1) pic of Paul holding his sig.-model and showing some griptape. The other pics which were hosted on cruisin.de are gone since you left us. I would fix that!)
Of course I am really astounded on how experienced you are on the matter of composite construction after the few months you practice it now.
I think it´s good for the sport to have diversity in shapes and construction.
I wish you luck with your approach and hope that you get your finishes right by now.
PS: I first thought about simply deleting your post cause I know exactly how it is meant. But I think it´s the same game as on www.cruisin.de - where you are no longer a member - it shows exactly your character and as long I have a chance to react I´ll just do that.
I would much prefer if you would keep your kind advice for yourself and not abuse my category for your propaganda.
Have a nice day!
(Weren´t Ick and PPS the guys who brought up hybrid constructions YEARS ago?)
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Thanks Frank!
Today, between the rain I had the chance to take it for a pumping run around some blocks in the city. I´m quite pleased with the result (flex, torsion, vibration dampening) but can´t wait to compare it with the stiffer one I took out of vacuum today.
I decided to plain-grip it for now and maybe will do the clear grip on the next one.
Enjoy the pics!
Today, between the rain I had the chance to take it for a pumping run around some blocks in the city. I´m quite pleased with the result (flex, torsion, vibration dampening) but can´t wait to compare it with the stiffer one I took out of vacuum today.
I decided to plain-grip it for now and maybe will do the clear grip on the next one.
Enjoy the pics!
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- Heiko
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Nice deck Alex. Like all your decks this one looks perfect as usual. Can´t await to test it in the next sessions...Maybe on Wednesday the weather is better so we can kick some cones before we drive to Paris!!!
WWW.CONCRETEWAVE.DE
100% Skateshop and no fucking fashion store. GOG homebase.
WWW.PAVEL-SKATES.COM
Pavel über alles
ASSA = Anti Skateboard Slalom Association
100% Skateshop and no fucking fashion store. GOG homebase.
WWW.PAVEL-SKATES.COM
Pavel über alles
ASSA = Anti Skateboard Slalom Association
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Thanks!
Sure, wednesday and thursday are expected to be better.
Where - Volksgarten or ESC? ESC, I think.
Could you please bring me some more 1.25" and 1.75" hardware (one pack each)?!
I´m not quite sure if I´m going to Paris. I think I´ll decide that last second depending on the weather. (You know that I´m a very "fun" oriented rider.)
Sure, wednesday and thursday are expected to be better.
Where - Volksgarten or ESC? ESC, I think.
Could you please bring me some more 1.25" and 1.75" hardware (one pack each)?!
I´m not quite sure if I´m going to Paris. I think I´ll decide that last second depending on the weather. (You know that I´m a very "fun" oriented rider.)
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- Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:57 pm
Keep up the good work!!!
Hello,
I think your deck looks great !!
It's guys like you that progress equipment for all of us. Keep going building lot's of prototypes.
Maybe soon we all might be riding your boards.
That Donald guy is a total JERK OFF.
I think your deck looks great !!
It's guys like you that progress equipment for all of us. Keep going building lot's of prototypes.
Maybe soon we all might be riding your boards.
That Donald guy is a total JERK OFF.
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- Fatboy
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Wow, who pi$$ed in Donald's Cheerios?
Alex, I think the deck looks beautiful........as usual! That ash is pretty, nice grain - and I dig the stretch cuts.
Keep doin' what you're doin'! I love your stuff.
Oh, and I'm no rocket science NASA board guy (like Donald), I'm a consumer - I buy things!
Alex, I think the deck looks beautiful........as usual! That ash is pretty, nice grain - and I dig the stretch cuts.
Keep doin' what you're doin'! I love your stuff.
Oh, and I'm no rocket science NASA board guy (like Donald), I'm a consumer - I buy things!
Evil Potentate
Team Fatboy - all hopped up on goofballs!
Still douchebags, but CLASSY douchebags
UNDISPUTED WORLD CATAMARAN CHAMPS!
Team Fatboy - all hopped up on goofballs!
Still douchebags, but CLASSY douchebags
UNDISPUTED WORLD CATAMARAN CHAMPS!
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Greg, Ron, and all
thanks for the kind comments on my new decks. I appreciate that very much.
The acknoldgement and fun of building is more reason for me to build decks than any money which isn´t in it anyway.
It would be great to discuss the decks only.
I´m glad about your support but I don´t want this to become a Donald-topic.
Thanks again!
thanks for the kind comments on my new decks. I appreciate that very much.
The acknoldgement and fun of building is more reason for me to build decks than any money which isn´t in it anyway.
It would be great to discuss the decks only.
I´m glad about your support but I don´t want this to become a Donald-topic.
Thanks again!
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- Airflow - Skateboards
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Yes, the shape is basically very similar to the last GS shape I made.
But you are not right concerning tail and camber:
- I changed the overall width (more)
- I made the Tail wider
- I made the whole deck longer
- The new deck is - as said above - a new construction and goes back to more flex
(of course I can also build a deck as stiff as a slab of granite, but I didn´t want to)
Since the new deck has more flex, the progressive camber is just right to make the deck flat when standing on it. When you pump it the deck slightly rockers as most flexing decks do.
With the use of more or less and different weights of glass I can trim the flex to the riders weight.
Here I made a comparision of the "evolution" of my GS shape outlines:
I don´t see any wrong in keeping a design-idea and just modifying it.
As far as I know (and I could be wrong) your sponsor Airflow didn´t change his Race Line and Freeride line neither shape- nor construction-wise for more than 4 years now. (new graphics don´t count) ... And the widest deck of the Race Line is 18,7 cm wide with a tail as slim as a pack of cigs.
Also the C-81 is unchanged in the 2nd year now.
I don´t say or think this is bad cause I believe a proven design (like the C-81) doesn´t need to be changed, especially not if it works so well for racers like you.
So as you can see I didn´t use the same shape but a similar one and now it has a tail at least as wide as the one of the C-81.
Yes, I keep my eyes open and adapt specs if I see and understand that they work well for a majority of riders.
I´m just not willing to hop on any trend and deny my ideas of how a skateboard should look like.
But you are not right concerning tail and camber:
- I changed the overall width (more)
- I made the Tail wider
- I made the whole deck longer
- The new deck is - as said above - a new construction and goes back to more flex
(of course I can also build a deck as stiff as a slab of granite, but I didn´t want to)
Since the new deck has more flex, the progressive camber is just right to make the deck flat when standing on it. When you pump it the deck slightly rockers as most flexing decks do.
With the use of more or less and different weights of glass I can trim the flex to the riders weight.
Here I made a comparision of the "evolution" of my GS shape outlines:
I don´t see any wrong in keeping a design-idea and just modifying it.
As far as I know (and I could be wrong) your sponsor Airflow didn´t change his Race Line and Freeride line neither shape- nor construction-wise for more than 4 years now. (new graphics don´t count) ... And the widest deck of the Race Line is 18,7 cm wide with a tail as slim as a pack of cigs.
Also the C-81 is unchanged in the 2nd year now.
I don´t say or think this is bad cause I believe a proven design (like the C-81) doesn´t need to be changed, especially not if it works so well for racers like you.
So as you can see I didn´t use the same shape but a similar one and now it has a tail at least as wide as the one of the C-81.
Yes, I keep my eyes open and adapt specs if I see and understand that they work well for a majority of riders.
I´m just not willing to hop on any trend and deny my ideas of how a skateboard should look like.
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- Airflow - Skateboards
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The shapes of the Airflow "Race Line" and Airflow Freerides are designed for the Swiss public-scene and equal their conceptions. Not for racing, even when one line is called "Race Line" we don't use them for racing any more. You have to differentiate these two sorts of requirement.
But your deck is made for racing and should contain a certain experience in racing.
I think your own experience isn't not enough but it can improve from competition to competition.
Width: It seemed narrow, sorry...
You see?
rmn
But your deck is made for racing and should contain a certain experience in racing.
I think your own experience isn't not enough but it can improve from competition to competition.
Width: It seemed narrow, sorry...
You see?
rmn
Last edited by Ramón Königshausen on Tue May 10, 2005 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards
Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11
Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks
Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11
Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks
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Ramon,
I didn´t understand your question as an attack and neither was my answer meant to be one.
I think I have shown and explained that I AM changing the dimension of the shape constantly BECAUSE I´m learning from races and try to see what works for some.
Even if some shapes seem to work for some others doesn´t mean that that is what I have to make for all.
I´m custom building. So if you want to buy another shape just ask me!
(And if you want an old Santa Cruz Henry Hester shape of course I´ll build you one!)
I know that both Race Line and Freeride line are really good selling decks in europes scene.
I wouldn´t change them neither.
I just wanted to make my point that generally a DESIGN hasn´t neccessarily to be changed from year to year.
I didn´t understand your question as an attack and neither was my answer meant to be one.
I think I have shown and explained that I AM changing the dimension of the shape constantly BECAUSE I´m learning from races and try to see what works for some.
Even if some shapes seem to work for some others doesn´t mean that that is what I have to make for all.
I´m custom building. So if you want to buy another shape just ask me!
(And if you want an old Santa Cruz Henry Hester shape of course I´ll build you one!)
I know that both Race Line and Freeride line are really good selling decks in europes scene.
I wouldn´t change them neither.
I just wanted to make my point that generally a DESIGN hasn´t neccessarily to be changed from year to year.
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- Airflow - Skateboards
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Oh, really the same as I thought: Paris is THIS chance to meet and talk to nearly EVERYBODY who's got a name in the scene!
Go for it Alex!
rmn
EDIT: Now it my post lost a bit sense. In a deleted post donald suggested Alex to show up in Paris.
Go for it Alex!
rmn
EDIT: Now it my post lost a bit sense. In a deleted post donald suggested Alex to show up in Paris.
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards
Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11
Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks
Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11
Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks
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I deleted some posts (of Joachim Leonhardt, Donald and myself) cause it really went out of hand.
Sorry, if also some of my words were kind of harsh but I´m really bored to play the same games with the same people all over again.
Ramon,
I really hope to be in Paris. It´s 99% sure I´ll be there.
Especially to promote my stuff.
Yes, of course I´ll race then also.
(in answer to a deleted post:)
As a hobby AM racer I do it for fun and surely will give my best. (otherwise it would be senseless)
I think even if I won´t be among the fastest in my class that that has nothing to do with my ability to build a good skateboard.
Sorry, if also some of my words were kind of harsh but I´m really bored to play the same games with the same people all over again.
Ramon,
I really hope to be in Paris. It´s 99% sure I´ll be there.
Especially to promote my stuff.
Yes, of course I´ll race then also.
(in answer to a deleted post:)
As a hobby AM racer I do it for fun and surely will give my best. (otherwise it would be senseless)
I think even if I won´t be among the fastest in my class that that has nothing to do with my ability to build a good skateboard.
Last edited by Alex Luxat on Wed May 11, 2005 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Airflow-Skateboards
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optimize!
airflow optimized the raceline and freeride shapes almost one/two years ago. the decks were narrower before. the first C81 looked veryvery different from what it looks now, and so was the production different too. the jani söderhäll s shape was remade a bit more than a year ago.
personally I like the idea concentrating on one shape. changing (optimizing) details will definately improve the board and that's (in my opinion) one of the basic goals!
late night, going to bed now!
personally I like the idea concentrating on one shape. changing (optimizing) details will definately improve the board and that's (in my opinion) one of the basic goals!
late night, going to bed now!
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- Posts: 94
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It now is 100% sure that I´ll be in Paris.
Everybody is invited to testride the two hybridcore GS (with hard or medium flex) and my TS Foamy.
I´ll also bring a freshly shaped "Hornet" carver that is not mounted cause it is already sold but a good example for our quality in glassed woodcore construction.
Happy to meet you in Paris to get some constructive criticism.
(I messed up and typed the wrong month - should say: 05/2005)
Everybody is invited to testride the two hybridcore GS (with hard or medium flex) and my TS Foamy.
I´ll also bring a freshly shaped "Hornet" carver that is not mounted cause it is already sold but a good example for our quality in glassed woodcore construction.
Happy to meet you in Paris to get some constructive criticism.
(I messed up and typed the wrong month - should say: 05/2005)
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- Pelle
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- Location: Sweden
shape!
is it possible to get this wonderfule board in a "s-camber" shape also? Thanx from pelleplast
pelleplast2@hotmail.com
pelleplast2@hotmail.com
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- Slalomspot.com
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- Pelle
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board
can you make it in following size?
Length: 31” Width: 8 7/8” Wheel Base: 18.75” & 19.75” and in the shape i send the pic on to you on your mail? Thanx pelle
Length: 31” Width: 8 7/8” Wheel Base: 18.75” & 19.75” and in the shape i send the pic on to you on your mail? Thanx pelle