steal and fake a product

G.O.G. Skateboard Trucks

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Donald Campbell
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steal and fake a product

Post by Donald Campbell » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:28 pm

the czechs are the guys who finally did it
buying a homer and then copying it.
what a great way to show a noble character

here is a conversation i am having with a guy named miroslav bartos-he seems to be the man!

could somebody help me translate his text. i learned english and french in school,miroslav got short in learning other languages but he's good at copying things:

donald:
nice steal
i am surprised how little you change when you copy something that involves a lot of research and commitment without even asking.please don't try to tell me that all i say is not true.it's really sad to see how little respect you have towards people who spent years in developing a good product.and now you apporach the market with a way lower price than the original.
thank you so much for all your efforts in destroying a good product.

miroslav replies:
neni našim cílem někoho ničit a s označením krádež bych byl opatrnej, neboť základní systém trucku kopírujou všichni výrobci a že jich na světě je. Cena kterou jsme zveřejnili pouze na cz stránkách je zaváděcí (nižší než by měla bejt) a je pouze dočasná za účelem podpory českých slalomářů, jeichž mzdy sou nesrovnatelně nižší než tvoje. 90% slalomářů u nás si truck za 200 euro prostě nemůže dovolit a pokud si jej dovolí, je to z jejich strany investice, kterou vy těžko můžete pochopit.

don again:
miroslav
it's not about the price
why don't you guys come up with something different instead of copying a product
which took yoears to be developed?
you don't understand or want to understand it seems.
very sad and disrespectful behaviour for sure

miroslav again:
Donalde.
Cena byla zmíněna v tvém prvním psaní, jako jeden z hlavních bodů.
Tedy trochu k historii tohoto trucku. Pokusy s vývojem funkčně schopných slalomových trucků se v CZ zabývalo a zabývá od doby před pár lety, kdy se k nám po mnoha letech vrátil sk8slalom, spousta slalomářů. Tento výrobek není zdaleka pouze mojim dílem a vznikl na základě mnoha konzultací s českými jezdci a strojními specialisty. Já jsem pouze první kdo to dotáhl k výrobku a i přesto vím, že se o totéž stále pokouší i jiní a pokoušet budou.
Ohledně náklonu trucku a měnění tak úhlu a točivosti, jsme měli vymyšlený jiný, plošinkový systém, ale nakonec jsme pro jednoduchost použili tvůj, stejně jako tys použil spoustu jiných technologických a funkčních prvků, vyvíjených , na truckách již 30 let před tebou. To je prostě skutečnost. Stejně tak by se mohl cítit dotčený ten kdo vymyslel vůbec první sk8 truck, stejně tak by se mohl cítit dotčený ten kdo vymyslel první konkave na sk8 desce, že to dělá každý, včetně vás a tak dále. Mi jsme truck navíc vylepšili o posuvný systém, který tak zpohodlňuje jeho užití a není nutný pracně vyndávat šrouby z desky, což je úkon vždy složitější. Pokud jej někdo jiný začne dělat taky, nic s tím nenaděláme, protože tento systém patentovaný nikdo nemá. Tak to prostě je.
Nejsme lhostejní k tvojí (vaší práci) a pro rozvoj sk8 slalom.
I nás v první řadě baví skateboarding a velká část z nás jej dělá již od sedumdesátých let. Našim cílem je však mít ty nejlepší, stejný technický podmínky jako ostatní, protože jenom tak, je soutěž o kvalitě jezdce a né pouze o tom, kdo má víc peněz na kvalitnější výbavu.
Předpokládám že tě má odpověď asi neuspokojila, ale věz že není našim plánem ti cíleně škodit. Nedopustili jsme se ničeho, čeho ses nedopustil ty sám.
Truck bude stát od 189,- Euro.

Peter Pletanek
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Post by Peter Pletanek » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:38 pm

Donald, my english is to bad to translate it, but Czech to German is ok. I hope, I can avoid some "war" between the Czechs and Germans through this.


donald:
nice steal
i am surprised how little you change when you copy something that involves a lot of research and commitment without even asking.please don't try to tell me that all i say is not true.it's really sad to see how little respect you have towards people who spent years in developing a good product.and now you apporach the market with a way lower price than the original.
thank you so much for all your efforts in destroying a good product.

miroslav replies: (my own translation to german)
Es ist nicht unser Ziel jemanden zu zerstören und jemanden als Dieb zu bezeichnen damit wäre ich vorsichtig, weil das Basissystem/Prinzip des Trucks kopieren alle Skatetruckhersteller und von denen gibt es auf der Welt jede Menge. Den Preis für den Truck den wir nur auf den Tschechischen Seiten bekanntgaben ist Einführungspreis (niedriger als es sein sollte) und ist nur vorübergehend mit dem Zweck der Unterstützung von Tschechischen Slalomskaters, da deren Einkommen unvergleichbar niedriger als dein Einkommen ist. 90% von unseren Slalomskater können sich ein Truck für 200 Euro schlicht und einfach nicht leisten und wenn ja, ist es von deren Seite aus gesehen eine Investition welche Ihr schwer verstehen könnt.

don again:
miroslav
it's not about the price
why don't you guys come up with something different instead of copying a product
which took yoears to be developed?
you don't understand or want to understand it seems.
very sad and disrespectful behaviour for sure

miroslav again: (my own translation to german)
Der Preis war in deinem ersten Schreiben als der Hauptpunkt erwähnt. Daher ein wenig zu der Truckhistorie. Versuche mit der Entwicklung eines funktional vernünftigen, slalomtrucks in CZ gibt es seit ein paar Jahren. Seitdem Slalomskateboarding bei uns wieder auferstanden ist und eine Menge von Slalomskateboarder zurückgehrt sind.. Diese Produkt stammt nicht nur von mir, es ist das Ergebnis von vielen Gesprächen mit Tschechischen Slalomskateboardern und Maschinenspezialisten. Ich bin nur der erste, der es in der Praxis umgesetzt hat und ich weiß das es auch andere versuchen und versuchen werden. Bezüglich des Winkels und der möglichen Änderung dieses Winkels und damit der Dreheigenschaft haben wir uns ein anderes System ausgedacht (durch Plattform), aber zum Schluss haben aus Gründen der Einfachheit dein übernommen, genauso wie du viele andere technologische und funktionale Elemente übernommen hast, die sich bei den Trucks seit dreißig Jahren vor dir entwickelt haben. Das sind einfach Tatsachen. Genauso betroffen wie du konnte sich Der fühlen der sich den allerersten sk8Truck ausgedacht hat, genauso der jenige der sich ein Konkavdeck ausgedacht hat. Das es jeder macht außer euch und so weiter. Wir haben den Truck zusätzlich durch das Schienensystem verbessert, dadurch wird die Handhabe einfacher und man braucht nicht mehr umständlich umschrauben. Wenn jemand das Schienensystem nachmacht, können wir nichts machen da dies niemand patentiert hat. So ist es nun mal. Uns ist deine (euere) Arbeit für die Entwicklung des Slalomskateboarding nicht gleichgültig. Auch uns macht in erste Reihe Skateboarding spaß und eine ganze Menge von uns macht es schon seit den Siebzigern. Unser Ziel ist aber die besten, technisch gleichen Bedingungen haben wie andere, weil nur so ein ausgeglichener Wettkampf stattfinden kann. Es soll nicht einer in Vorteil sein, nur weil er mehr Geld hat um sich besseres Equipment zu leisten. Ich vermute, dass dich meine Antwort nicht zufrieden gestellt hat, aber glaube mir, es ist nicht unser Vorhaben dir absichtlich irgendwie zu schaden. Wir haben nicht gemacht was du auch nicht gemacht hast. Der Truckpreis wird bei 189,- Euro anfangen.

Joe Iacovelli
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:52 pm

now somebody translate to English please, do we have pictures? How can we make sure they don't end up in the US as GOG trucks?

Peter Pletanek
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Post by Peter Pletanek » Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:21 am

Joe, the Czechs are not like Chinese
From my point of view, I don't belive that this Trucks will attack US Market.
By the way, I am not involved in this story, just to clarify this...
I am only a old pure skater :-)

Somebody should translate my german translation to english, I think this will be helpfull to understand the background...

here are some pics
http://mbcko.rajce.idnes.cz/truck_predn ... slalomare/

Lenny Poage
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Post by Lenny Poage » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:44 am

I took 4 semester of German in college, but forget the VAST majority of it. Had this all gone down back in '94, I'd be all over it. :)
HOSS

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Post by Robert Gaisek » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:52 am

Marcus...........are they "Race-yellow"?
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Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:13 pm

From my point of view, I don't belive that this Trucks will attack US Market.
Oh, thats all right then. I'll just bury my head in the sand. Its just plain wrong.

This makes me sad and angry. No creativity. No respect.

Dont get me wrong. I like Czech stuff. I just bought a 16 valve Skoda. Its got 4 in the engine and 12 more in the radio.
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Gary Saenz
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Post by Gary Saenz » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:03 pm

That is just wrong. Sorry to hear that Donald. Time to design something new to keep them one step behind...

Ramón Königshausen
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Re: steal and fake a product

Post by Ramón Königshausen » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:42 pm

Donald Campbell wrote: that involves a lot of research and commitment without even asking

I feel really upset right now. I consider myself one of the guys who spends hours doing research and testing.

Do you know what it means to devote one's time to a product like this? My concern with this product has always been to make it the best for the CUSTOMERS. Not to create blueprints for copy-cats.

I know the trucks are not cheap but what for did we come out with the Cheap-O-G?


Dunno what to say...this is just cheeky. I've always liked to go to races in Czech Republic and tried to support where I could...but I guess from now on I'm looking at this from a different perspective. I feel sorry for those who are not involved.


rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Donald Campbell
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Post by Donald Campbell » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:12 pm

the problem i see with the whole thing is that there are people involved who basically just steal something without understandning the full principle behind it.
the idea with the sled is something we also had but along with such a narrow sled comes the question of how stable is the truck when mounted to it regarding torsional forces involved.
we moved away from that idea.
what you all see here is a homer copied.
a homer is a very sharp turning truck and not recommended for everybody.
it totally differs from the foxy which offers a very stable and very predictable ride.


bottom line,again, is that all the hard groundwork involved by riders who did not get paid for their research and who did it for the love of the sport is completely ignored by just copying something which i guess the producers don't even understand in its basic functions.
there is a lot in the two replies i received which is wrong in its content,thank you peter p. for the translation into german.
i sincerely hope that anyody from the western world will get negative comments after the purchase of the czech product.

it lacks experience.
it lacks respect.


we never got rich doing the gog trucks,it was more a labour of love.
we do respect other manufacturers such as octane sports,who come out with their own interpretation of a product,which requires brainwork and testing.
i completely disrespect the czech effort-it's not even an effort-and it is very sad to see those things happen in such a small community we all have here.

Marcus Seyffarth
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Post by Marcus Seyffarth » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:39 pm

I don't know what to say.

Perhaps: I'm glad you liked the color?

Hopefully they suck, break and never get out of CZ.

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Post by Fabian Bjornstjerna » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:22 pm

Very sad to see. Shameless copying in an exceptionally ugly way!

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Not on!

Post by Rob Ashby » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:32 pm

This is just so wrong, wrong, wrong!

Michael spent considerable time developing the Virage with Sam (even with some input from myself in the testing stage), the Swedes have done their thing with the 161. (Did the Czechs copy the 161 colour too?) There's no excuse to copy - NONE!

This reminds me of all the copies that were floating around in the late 70's - fake Trackers were the thing to avoid then!
Copying superior product was way out of order then and it certainly is now!

Plagiarism is just another word for theft - show some f**king respect!
Last edited by Rob Ashby on Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:56 pm

Calm down.

its OK.


We can pay with these:















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Wesley Tucker
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:23 pm

Those bills are only good on January 8.
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Post by Marcus Seyffarth » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:31 pm

Joe Iacovelli wrote:now somebody translate to English please, do we have pictures? How can we make sure they don't end up in the US as GOG trucks?
My german is not so good but basically this is what is said:

"Hello cousin Donny long time no see! This here is a sample of your fine trucks in the new color that we made from the sample you sent. As agreed we sell them to you for 200 euros. It is the best quality you will ever find, I promise. What was it that you wanted to have on the sticker, we are printing them tomorrow"

And then the next reply is:
"Ok if it is too expensive we can say 189, but one penny less and I'll sell them to my swedish nephew."

Robert Gaisek
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Post by Robert Gaisek » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:56 pm

BWAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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Rob Ashby
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Post by Rob Ashby » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:27 pm

OK Michael, I'll raise you, and there is only one genuine currency to use here!

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Skate Bucks....don't accept imitations!

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:37 pm

Thanks Rob. Here is your change:

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Re: steal and fake a product

Post by Gareth Fitzgerald » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:40 pm

This what I could decifer using an online translator.
I've put it into context.

My opinion,
mimicry is the highest form of flattery
As far as I recall there was a huge uproar about the gog trucks copying radikal, and even though everybody kicked up a stink production went on. Kingpins breaking, mass recalls etc.
However my hat goes off to you Donald for rising to the top and going above and beyond taking the plunge of a new developement.
I own a radikal and a gog. I love them both for their own little quirks.
After reading Miroslavs replies and without even seeing his forged copies I can't help but give him a chance first before I write him off. I'm no fan on plagurism however if he has made improvements on the base product I see no harm in his work.
Donald Campbell wrote:the czechs are the guys who finally did it
buying a homer and then copying it.
what a great way to show a noble character

here is a conversation i am having with a guy named miroslav bartos-he seems to be the man!

could somebody help me translate his text. i learned english and french in school,miroslav got short in learning other languages but he's good at copying things:

donald:
nice steal
i am surprised how little you change when you copy something that involves a lot of research and commitment without even asking.please don't try to tell me that all i say is not true.it's really sad to see how little respect you have towards people who spent years in developing a good product.and now you apporach the market with a way lower price than the original.
thank you so much for all your efforts in destroying a good product.

miroslav replies:
our goal is not to destroy anyone and I would sign theft careful, because the basic system copy all truck manufacturers and that many in the world. Price we published only on the com site is bootable (less than would be Beth) and is only temporary in order to promote Czech slalom, jeichž salaries sou incomparably lower than yours. 90% of the slalom in our truck for a 200 euro simply can not afford it and if you let it, it's from them an investment that you can hardly understand.

don again:
miroslav
it's not about the price
why don't you guys come up with something different instead of copying a product
which took yoears to be developed?
you don't understand or want to understand it seems.
very sad and disrespectful behaviour for sure

miroslav again:
Donalde.
Price was mentioned in your first writing, as one of the main points.
Then a bit of the history of the truck. Experiments on the development of functionally capable slalom trucks in CZ addressed and addressed since a few years ago, when to us after many years back sk8slalom, a lot of slalom. This product is not only far from my work and was based on extensive consultations with Czech drivers and machinery specialists. I am only the first who was dragged to the product even though I know he still tries to do the same and others and try to be.
Concerning the tilt truck and changing the angle točivosti, we have invented another, plošinkový system, but we for simplicity use yours, like you used a lot of other technological and functional elements, developed at truckách for 30 years before you. That's just reality. Similarly, the issue could feel the one who invented the first sk8 truck, just might feel concerned the one who invented the first Konkav sk8 board, it makes everyone, including you, and so on. I have also improved the truck sliding system, which thus zpohodlňuje its use and does not need elaborate vyndávat screws from the board, which is always more difficult task. If you someone else will do, too, can do about anything with it, because this system has a patented one. So it is.
We are not indifferent to your (your work) and for the development sk8 slalom.
And our first fun skateboarding and much of it makes us since sedumdesátých years. Our aim is to have the best, the same technical conditions as others, because only in this way, the competition is the quality of riders and not just about who has more money for better equipment.
I assume you have probably not satisfied with the answer, but then know that it is not our plan, you purposefully harm. We have not committed to anything, what you did not commit yourself.
Truck will cost from 189, - Euro.

Gareth Fitzgerald
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Post by Gareth Fitzgerald » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:56 pm

Just found the links,
Seems Cletus oops I meant the guy in the checkered top and overalls is happy with the outcome.
If I were to copy the adjustable interlock I'd taper it to eliminate side slop rather than straight up copy. Try and get the click click sound out everytime it turns. Evolve the principle rather than just add fries to the meal deal.

Well cats out the bag and those of us with morals will understand the blantant copy. The rest will just get and the bandwagon. Life goes on...................

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MY REPLY

Post by Miroslav Bartoš » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:01 pm

I’ll try to respond on Donald’s story here on ISSA forum.

For Donald :
I’m just an ordinary guy who loves skateboarding ever since i first saw it in deep totality here in Czech. I made my first skateboard when i was 13 years old which is 33 years ago in 1976. In those days we had nothing to skate on and communists didn’t let anyone to the west part of Europe. Even if they did, we wouldn’t have the money to afford it. So we were used to make our own stuff. Running your own business was illegal. So we did make trucks, decks and wheels on our own. You had to be very lucky to get for example wheels from western Europe. I was, so in the early 80’s i got Kryptonics wheels that were worth 3 months wage. This is just for your imagination but i could go on and on.
To your dismissive comment on my lack of language education. Evidently you are very clever guy when you were able to learn English and French at school. When i was in school the only foreign language we could learn was Russian. I can’t compete with you in languages. Man, I‘m not even high school educated and to be honest it doesn’t bother me at all.
When you first contacted me i didn’t even know that some Donald Campbel exists.
You wrote something in English i respond in Czech. I don’t see a problem.

Here is a copy of our facebook conversation :

donald:
nice steal
i am surprised how little you change when you copy something that involves a lot of research and commitment without even asking.please don't try to tell me that all i say is not true.it's really sad to see how little respect you have towards people who spent years in developing a good product.and now you apporach the market with a way lower price than the original.
thank you so much for all your efforts in destroying a good product.

miroslav replies:
neni našim cílem někoho ničit a s označením krádež bych byl opatrnej, neboť základní systém trucku kopírujou všichni výrobci a že jich na světě je. Cena kterou jsme zveřejnili pouze na cz stránkách je zaváděcí (nižší než by měla bejt) a je pouze dočasná za účelem podpory českých slalomářů, jeichž mzdy sou nesrovnatelně nižší než tvoje. 90% slalomářů u nás si truck za 200 euro prostě nemůže dovolit a pokud si jej dovolí, je to z jejich strany investice, kterou vy těžko
můžete pochopit.

Translation: It is not our aim to destroy somebody or something and I would be more careful with a word steal, because the basic system of the truck copy all manufacturers and how many of them exist! The price we introduced only on the Czech pages is an initial price /lower than it should be/ and is only temporary to benefit Czech slalomers whose wages are beyond comparation with yours. 90% of the Czech slalomers are not able to spend 200 Euros and if they do, it is an investment for them which you can hardly underestand.

don again:
miroslav
it's not about the price
why don't you guys come up with something different instead of copying a product
which took yoears to be developed?
you don't understand or want to understand it seems.
very sad and disrespectful behaviour for sure

miroslav again:
Donalde.
Cena byla zmíněna v tvém prvním psaní, jako jeden z hlavních bodů.
Tedy trochu k historii tohoto trucku. Pokusy s vývojem funkčně schopných slalomových trucků se v CZ zabývalo a zabývá od doby před pár lety, kdy se k nám po mnoha letech vrátil sk8slalom, spousta slalomářů. Tento výrobek není zdaleka pouze mojim dílem a vznikl na základě mnoha konzultací s českými jezdci a strojními specialisty. Já jsem pouze první kdo to dotáhl k výrobku a i přesto vím, že se o totéž stále pokouší i jiní a pokoušet budou.
Ohledně náklonu trucku a měnění tak úhlu a točivosti, jsme měli vymyšlený jiný, plošinkový systém, ale nakonec jsme pro jednoduchost použili tvůj, stejně jako tys použil spoustu jiných technologických a funkčních prvků, vyvíjených , na truckách již 30 let před tebou. To je prostě skutečnost. Stejně tak by se mohl cítit dotčený ten kdo vymyslel vůbec první sk8 truck, stejně tak by se mohl cítit dotčený ten kdo vymyslel první konkave na sk8 desce, že to dělá každý, včetně vás a tak dále. Mi jsme truck navíc vylepšili o posuvný systém, který tak zpohodlňuje jeho užití a není nutný pracně vyndávat šrouby z desky, což je úkon vždy složitější. Pokud jej někdo jiný začne dělat taky, nic s tím nenaděláme, protože tento systém patentovaný nikdo nemá. Tak to prostě je.
Nejsme lhostejní k tvojí (vaší práci) a pro rozvoj sk8 slalom.
I nás v první řadě baví skateboarding a velká část z nás jej dělá již od sedumdesátých let. Našim cílem je však mít ty nejlepší, stejný technický podmínky jako ostatní, protože jenom tak, je soutěž o kvalitě jezdce a né pouze o tom, kdo má víc peněz na kvalitnější výbavu.
Předpokládám že tě má odpověď asi neuspokojila, ale věz že není našim plánem ti cíleně škodit. Nedopustili jsme se ničeho, čeho ses nedopustil ty sám.
Truck bude stát od 189,- Euro.

Translation:
Donald, the price was mentioned in your first reactions as one of the main points.
So little about a history of the trucks. Numerous CZ slalomers were concerned in attempts of a development of the functionally capable slalom truck few years ago from the moment when sk8slalom came back. This product is not by far only my idea and was created on a base of many consultations with Czech riders and engineers. I am only the first one who finished the whole thing to the final product and I know that the others stilll try to continue working on their own.
Regarding the angle of the truck and changing so the turning of the truck we developed different system with polygon but finally we used your rounded system as it is simplier, the same way you used to use many various technological and functional details developed on trucks during 30 past years before your truck. This is simple a reality. That is the same as the man who developed the first skate truck can feel injured or the man who developed then first skate deck concave can feel injured that everybody copies their inventions etc. We also improved the truck with the sliding system which make its use more comfortable and there is no need to unmount the bolts from the deck which is always more difficult. If somebody else will start to do it, we cannot do anything against it as nobody has patented this systém. That is a reality. We are not indoletnt to your work and your addition to the development of the sk8 slalom.
First of all we enjoy skateboarding and big part of us skate from the seventies. Our aim is to have the best technical conditions as the others, because only then the competition is about the skaters quality and not about who have more money for a better equipment.
I suppose that my answer did not satisfy you, but be sure that our plan is not to damage you. We did not commit anything else you did.
Truck price will start at 189 Euros.


Then there is couple of short comments and i see no reason to respond separately
Anyway i have to and i want to react on Ramon Königshausen’s comment that mentions Czech Republic. I guess most of you feels that way. I would like to ask all of you not to put those two matters together. If you feel that we are more guilty than any other manufacturer who copy (in your words „steal“) base form of trucks, except those who were first to invent it. Then blame me, not Czech Republic. This is not collective fault. Other skaters from Czech Rep. has no business with this so please don’t boycott Czech races and competitions.
If i made you feel angry and sad, same way like G.O.G when RADIKAL was created, don’t let this spoil your love for skateboarding. And don’t blame Czech skaters who again, has no business with this.
Donald said that we don't even understand its basic functions. I’d like to mention our motivation to create this truck.
As slalom (that has great tradition here) got back to Czech, there was a big demand for slalom skate hardware. Not only its functionality made most of czech riders buy GOG trucks and PAVEL decks. The main reason is because we are close to Germany. Another reason is that among old skate crew is lot of people who moved to Germany. They became unofficial distributors and propagators of brands i’ve mentioned. That made relatively good availability for the rest of us. I said „relatively“ because as i know, one company here in Czech wanted to be official distributor. It doesn’t work today despite big demand for G.O.G trucks because you’d had to wait long time and you were never sure if you’re gonna get them in 14 days or in one year.
That’s why people here started to be a little pissed off. They saved up money to buy expensive truck, that wasn’t available so they had no other option but to keep using their inappropriate equipment (for example street and U ramp trucks). So they had a handicap which wasn’t because of their lack of skills or riding technic. This was one of the problems that made us think : „if we can’t buy them, we will have to make them on our own. There is no other way“. Another thing that made us do it, with all respect to GOG’s ideas and development is its certain imperfection. If you manage to save up enough money (when you consider our wages is very hard). Thinking that you’re buying HI-TEC product in all its details, you spend weeks waiting for delivery and in the end you realize that you can’t put bearings on it, so you have to take piece of sanding paper and finish that product by yourself. After that you have a right to be little frustrated and disapointed.
Another issue is contact area in truck bolster. Almost every owner of these trucks can hear unpleasant „click, click“ sound because opposite circular areas just don’t fit perfectly. It doesn’t make good impresion during the ride and also if there is a gap, then there is bigger material stress. In Czech GOG users fix this by filling the gap with pieces of papers and stuff. I’m aware of huge technical intensity of this matter. We know the reason and i can asure you that we’ve almost eliminated this problem. Also you don’t have to use sand paper when you want to put bearings on our axes.
These are just details that we’ve wanted to use and move the product a little further. Same way like many people did before us. Above all we’ve developed (according do Donald we don't even understand its basic functions) adjustable baseplate that Donald thought about and mentioned in the end of discussion.
I found some hints in your comments about quality of our product. Marcus Seyffarth hopes that our trucks will suck, break and never get out of Czech Republic.
Here you can find couple of technical properties.

-Main material is peak aluminium alloy with great quality „DURAL EN AW 7075“. Which is also used in production of highly stressed mechanic parts and it’s also used by defence industry. It’s breaking point is at 540-480 MPa.

-Extreme stress also apply on broaches and axle shafts. In our case 42CrMoS4 and the magnitude of tension strenght according to certification is 1046 MPa kingpin has 1174 MPa.
Regarding to axel shaft bend, tension strenght of material that we used is 1174 MPa. We used material which endurance exceed theoretical breakdown point.
Screws used in adjustable baseplate have bearing force of 6720 N.
Questioning breaking limit is nonesense. In first place screws that we’ve used have much better properties than ordinary screws, that all of us use to fix our trucks with decks. Secondly sideward compression is eliminated by heavy rail.


- We used high strenght anaerobic adhesive LOXEAL 83-05 to interlock screws, screw binds and axle shafts. It can stand extreme temperature, rust, vibrations, water, fluid, oil, carbohydrides and lots of other chemicals.

- Also we have certificates on every material used, all strenght properties are backed and we can ilustrate all the calculations.

- That is all for your imagination what we did to make sure that our trucks will not suck and break as Marcus hopes. We gave away enough about materials, so hopefully someone finds it useful. For your information we haven’t register adjustable baseplate yet.

In the end i would like to say that i deeply respect guys who first came up with truck bolster we used. Perhaps time will show that we’ve also helped to improve and progress in trucks manufacturing. I pay tribute to those who made first functional skateboard (that all of us copy) truck and wheels. They should be the ones angry that hundreds or thousands of companies across the world copy and improve their ideas. I guess that they are just happy to see how many people fell for skateboarding on this planete today

Marcus Seyffarth
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Post by Marcus Seyffarth » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:44 pm

Miroslav, I'm glad you got all the excuses for making your own truck and I don't blame you for making one or two copies to yourself. The problem is that they are VERY closely looking to the GOG Homers and that you make more than a few. Also I think that if you are aware of the problems with the GOG's and claim not to copy them, why is it that most of the weak points of the GOGs are in your trucks as well?

My main issue though is that out of all the colors of the rainbow you choose pretty much exact the same as 161. Why?
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The sliding thing works great, at least if you put it in the board. Its hard to get the toestopper in the right place when you move the truck like you do. This is how 161 does it, its ok to copy it if you feel like building a few boards as well.
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Peter Pletanek
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Post by Peter Pletanek » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:24 pm

From my point of view...
Thats all here is the normal evolution. The whole nature, flora and fauna copies and make further development on good things (some times also on bad things).
The main point is, that we all receive better and better stuff for skateboarding and have more fun :-)

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Post by Miroslav Bartoš » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:58 pm

Marcus,
first of all about the gold color - we manufacture the trucks in a small town, the company who did the color finishing offered me black, blue and gold for the mini order we did with them.The color was decided by one moment as we liked it but for the future we will have a bigger spectrum. I had no idea about 161 trucks in that moment.The adjustable toestopper is another small product for the near future.I feel a bit of sarcasm in your "offer", but we have our own solution which you can use for every truck and deck. The weak points you mentioned should be corrected in our truck by the precission of the production. If you would try it then let me know your opinion, please.

Donald Campbell
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Post by Donald Campbell » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:26 pm

one thing i really wonder about after having read your post completely,misroslav:
if our trucks have so many flaws and you seem to know everything aout the whole deal,why did you have to buy and copy a g.o.g. truck in order to produce clones?

reading what you say about alloys cromos,it's not that we don't know what we use and it's not that you use something better than we do,as a matter of fact we never went into detail on those topics since no customer will understand these material specs anyway or draw his conclusions regarding used material.
well,nothing new on the eastern front,to say so...

if any customer has any problem with his truck he should feel free to contact us and ask for a solution.
since we never heard anything from the czech side we are under the impression that the trucks we sold wrok and are ok.so i cannot comment on the lack of quality you described in your previous post.
it doesn't help me or you anyway to carry on with this senseless debate,just know this:
you are not welcome with your way of doing things.
i guess marcus and michael are in the same boat with me about your way of inventing things.

have a nice day and keep up the good,positive work!

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:40 pm

Thats all here is the normal evolution.
Peter, shall I explain the difference between 'evolution' and 'cloning'.

Perhaps 'borrowing' and 'stealing' might be easier concepts for you to grasp.
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Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:00 pm

Miraslav wrote:
That’s why people here started to be a little pissed off. They saved up money to buy expensive truck, that wasn’t available so they had no other option but to keep using their inappropriate equipment
You have a choice. You can buy the GOG front hanger system as well. You can buy Radikals. You can Buy Ettsetsetts. You can buy Virage. You can buy modified Bennetts from Sk8kings, or Galac/Grennet/GriffinSk8, or Speedealer in Canada. You can buy GUS trucks in places too. You can contact PVD and licence his design.

Or buy Bennetts. Find some Lazers. Get an Indy 101.

You do not need a GOG to win a race. They may help. They work. They are great trucks.

If you are telling me that Czech racers would rather copy the hard work and development put into GOGs than actually develop their own then that tells me you really dont give a XXXX.

But no. You COPIED GOGS instead. You copied ETtsetetsttts colour. The only colour they come in.....As I have said copying is easy. If you were unaware of Ettttsettttesttttt where have you been? Or did you not have any to copy?

Winning races is harder. And you have shown that you wont put the work in. You claim you have made improvements but that is for GOG to do. Not you. Its NOT YOUR TRUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOG have done a few changes over the production runs of them are made, the result of racer and customer feedback. What you do is ride on the back of that work for free.

As a truck builder myself I find what you did depressing. It makes me wonder why I bother if there are people like you about.

You mention your years under the tyranny of communism. Well I was always scared that communism stopped people thinking for themselves. You have just proved my worries. Break free! Your allowed to now. Be creative. Design your OWN trucks.

By the way. I see you watch says midnight on it in the pictures.. Get some sleep. You might dream up your own ideas.
Last edited by Michael Stride on Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Fabian Bjornstjerna
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Post by Fabian Bjornstjerna » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:18 pm

It´s spelled ettsexett i think... or just plain 161
1=ett
6=sex
1=ett

The trick is to put it all together i one word. Ett-Sex-Ett.
In CZ i don´t know but i imagen we all will in a short time.....

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:23 pm

Sorry Fabian its just my little joke.

I will use any vowels I have left over and send them to the Czech Republic. They need some more than I do.
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Fabian Bjornstjerna
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Post by Fabian Bjornstjerna » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:29 pm

Hahahaha i know, just messing about ;-)

Heard u got an asian order for some Village trucks..

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:43 pm

Its spelt V I A G R A.

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