7. PRO/AM
A PRO/AM separation of skaters is not necessary, and not recommended.
GR- 7. PRO/AM
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Jadranko Radovanovic
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Pat Chewning
- Pat C.
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PRO/AM division gives more points for World Ranking
If I am reading the rules for the World Ranking properly, a division of the racers into PRO/AM gives the PROS more points for World Ranking than if the event is run "open".
My specific recommended change to the rule would be:
7. PRO/AM
A PRO/AM separation of skaters is not necessary, but IS recommended for larger contests.
My specific recommended change to the rule would be:
7. PRO/AM
A PRO/AM separation of skaters is not necessary, but IS recommended for larger contests.
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Wesley Tucker
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Pat Chewning
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Steve Hinzen
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later!
Are we talking the PRO/AM-definitions of the current ranking system?
If so I think it's to early to decide on that.
It's all based on principal decisions to be made about the ranking system itself and the formats of future competitions.
If so I think it's to early to decide on that.
It's all based on principal decisions to be made about the ranking system itself and the formats of future competitions.
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John Gilmour
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I think Pro/Am designations should be made when you ahve novice and intermediate skaters present with advance skaters.
Lets say there are 15 guys capable of runnign a pro level course and 5 novices and 15 intermediates.
In this case it would be nice forhte intermediate guys to try and get podium.
Having 2 courses set on the same hill would aid in this.
The timing strips and start ramps need not be moved- but according to how the course is set you could have a pro course which is tighter and faster, adn a novice course which is slower and more offset with wider cone distances.
One thing I would like to reccommend is a course setting where the top o hte course is Intermediate level with some opportunity for double pumping and some offset- this runs into a technical tighter course at higher speed.
With a tape switch set at the transition between the two courses the am's can compare their times to the pros (Even though the Pro might run a shorter board for this section than if it were the only section).
The Pro then gets 2 times- his time for the top of the course and the combined time of the top + the Bottom of the course.
Thus you can run ams with pros on the same course. A second advantage is the ams runa bit quicker since hte course is shorter. For instance the Am section is 30 cones and the pro bottom section is 35-40 cones.
Since there are few pros- it doesn't take long to run the pros. Also no course resetting is needed.
Lets say there are 15 guys capable of runnign a pro level course and 5 novices and 15 intermediates.
In this case it would be nice forhte intermediate guys to try and get podium.
Having 2 courses set on the same hill would aid in this.
The timing strips and start ramps need not be moved- but according to how the course is set you could have a pro course which is tighter and faster, adn a novice course which is slower and more offset with wider cone distances.
One thing I would like to reccommend is a course setting where the top o hte course is Intermediate level with some opportunity for double pumping and some offset- this runs into a technical tighter course at higher speed.
With a tape switch set at the transition between the two courses the am's can compare their times to the pros (Even though the Pro might run a shorter board for this section than if it were the only section).
The Pro then gets 2 times- his time for the top of the course and the combined time of the top + the Bottom of the course.
Thus you can run ams with pros on the same course. A second advantage is the ams runa bit quicker since hte course is shorter. For instance the Am section is 30 cones and the pro bottom section is 35-40 cones.
Since there are few pros- it doesn't take long to run the pros. Also no course resetting is needed.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour
john gilmour
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Karl Floitgraf
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I was just curious, how do the points work in a contest like Dafarm or Dixie where everyone qualifies in groups of 16, you get fast amateurs racing in the top division and slower pros running in the B bracket. Does an Amateur in the A group get Pro points, and does the the Pro in the B group get AM points?
I found it interesting in 2006 I got to race in a lot of different place so I saw how the europeans do things in contrast to a couple big contests in the States.
In europe the racing is very much dependent on AM and PRO status. In Brixlegg it made easier because AMs would run in the morning, Pros in the Afternoon. The thing that kind of was rough was that with something like 40 Ams qualifying only the top 16 got to even race. I remember I qualified on my first run 18th or something so on my next run I got 14th, one of the biggest challenges was just to make it to the 16. Or else your day was kinda short.
In Texas and at the Dixie cup it was open qualification: which is a more true form of competition because the fastest guys, AM and Pro alike race each other. My only observation about that is there's no Amateur Podium. Noah and Mandarino (both pros, right) were on the podium of the B group. The fast amateurs don't get to race eachother.
So it does kind of come down to whether you want to prop up the Amateur class which isn't entirely always slower than all the pros. In order for Ams to race eachother they don't get a chance to take out the Pros. Just look at Dominik Kowalski and Cividino, 6 months ago on the podium of the amatuer class: now they take out racers such as Richy Carrasco.
So in my opinion before we make up rules about amatuers and pros at contests we need a deffinition of each class. Prizes questions like should Open riders not get cash? After all what does really make a PRO or an AM?
I found it interesting in 2006 I got to race in a lot of different place so I saw how the europeans do things in contrast to a couple big contests in the States.
In europe the racing is very much dependent on AM and PRO status. In Brixlegg it made easier because AMs would run in the morning, Pros in the Afternoon. The thing that kind of was rough was that with something like 40 Ams qualifying only the top 16 got to even race. I remember I qualified on my first run 18th or something so on my next run I got 14th, one of the biggest challenges was just to make it to the 16. Or else your day was kinda short.
In Texas and at the Dixie cup it was open qualification: which is a more true form of competition because the fastest guys, AM and Pro alike race each other. My only observation about that is there's no Amateur Podium. Noah and Mandarino (both pros, right) were on the podium of the B group. The fast amateurs don't get to race eachother.
So it does kind of come down to whether you want to prop up the Amateur class which isn't entirely always slower than all the pros. In order for Ams to race eachother they don't get a chance to take out the Pros. Just look at Dominik Kowalski and Cividino, 6 months ago on the podium of the amatuer class: now they take out racers such as Richy Carrasco.
So in my opinion before we make up rules about amatuers and pros at contests we need a deffinition of each class. Prizes questions like should Open riders not get cash? After all what does really make a PRO or an AM?
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Pat Chewning
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From the Slalomranking web page:Karl Floitgraf wrote:I was just curious, how do the points work in a contest like Dafarm or Dixie where everyone qualifies in groups of 16, you get fast amateurs racing in the top division and slower pros running in the B bracket. Does an Amateur in the A group get Pro points, and does the the Pro in the B group get AM points?
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Step 4 – Pro and Am classes
To be at the very top of some World Rankings (Total and Pro) you will need to compete as Pro. It’s important due to ranking points to be aware of Pro and Am classes. An Open class will count less than a Pro Class but more than an Amateur class. If there are 8 or more Pros in an Open class it will be counted as a Pro-Open (Pro/Am) in the world ranking. Pros will get Pro points and Ams will get Am points.
Conclusion 4: For Pro racers it’s important to race as pro in Pro Class competitions. For Pro’s it may be important to check out if there is a separate Pro class or not at a competition. Also important is if it’s an Open competition to check out if 8 or more pros are attending.
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Hans Koraeus
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I don't think we need to tell the organizer what is preferred more or less. Both can be good and the organizer knows propably best what best suits their event.
If there are enough pro's expected it may be more of a challenge to give them their own course which can be set much harder. An easy course does not filter out the pros well enough.
For the moment there is no official rule of what makes you a pro or am. It's much up to yourself to decide. One day in the future we will probably have to set up more precise rules around this and how you qualify to even be able to come and compete on the highest World Ranking status events. There should never be any restrictions o Pros I think. But we are at the point where we need it on the Am group. Something we need to deal with very quickly. For the Worlds there are a lot of European coming this year. What will be the limit of racers they accept? People need to be sure if they book there flights.
If there are enough pro's expected it may be more of a challenge to give them their own course which can be set much harder. An easy course does not filter out the pros well enough.
For the moment there is no official rule of what makes you a pro or am. It's much up to yourself to decide. One day in the future we will probably have to set up more precise rules around this and how you qualify to even be able to come and compete on the highest World Ranking status events. There should never be any restrictions o Pros I think. But we are at the point where we need it on the Am group. Something we need to deal with very quickly. For the Worlds there are a lot of European coming this year. What will be the limit of racers they accept? People need to be sure if they book there flights.