6 wheelers

[Claude Regnier]

I posted this on NCDSA.COM to show support for those organizers that made there own decisions on the subject as we recommended.


The ISSA board revised some of the old rules and made a decision to let race promoters make their own judgment to allow or disallow the use of six-wheelers. Not everyone on the board agreed and that is why that choice was made. You can ask ISSA for a directive but if the board cannot decide, then leaving options open, for now, is the outcome of the question. This is a new matter and very few people actually raced on them. Why legalize them or ban them totally globally? The choice to ban them in big events is a good one for now.

Sure, for event organizers it would have taken some of the heat off and put it on ISSA. Some can handle it; some can’t. We invited everyone to participate in the rule debates and some did, some did not. What exists stands for the duration of the 2007 race schedule.

We are not amending the rules for anyone. Actually the rules we would likely want to amend is the front wheel lifting at the start of a race. The Paris race deemed it a DQ after day 1 of racing and it was outlawed for Germany. As I stated before in one of the early books I read on Slalom in the rules section was “ All four wheels must remain in contact with the ground”. It will remain as is unless there is a push to mandate this rule in a 2007 rules revision; if not, sorry to stir the pot even more.

So, for those who favor of 6 wheel use, you can make sure you vote on it when we open things up for the 2008 revision. Race organizers are not free to make their own rules and decisions on existing ISSA rules and guidelines, however. Gary opened up a poll and it will likely lead to an unfavorable result for 6 wheelers.

ISSA respects and backs the DHB & the COSS crews in their decision on the subject of 6 wheeled skateboard use at their events. Remember the entire board may not agree on this statement but must back it as well.

Sincerely,

Claude Regnier
President
International Slalom Skateboard Association

[Wesley Tucker]

I've got a six-wheeler. I have no aversion to six-wheelers. But I would have to ask this one question:

Is a Six-wheeled skateboard just another skateboard?

No, it is not. It is a six-wheeled skateboard.

Comparing six wheeled skateboards to improved trucks, bearings or deck materials is a non-sequitir. Improving a vehicle with better handling, better traction or better speed with improved components is not the same as a radical alteration of the vehicle's design parameters.

Now, though, comes the big question: should a skateboard with an extra set of wheels and one more truck be allowed to race against a board with two trucks and two wheels?

That is the whole argument.

My take on it is this: we have allowed boards to compete with radical alterations to the vehicle's design parameters in the past:

Toe Stops (alteration)
Foam concave blocks (Big alteration)
Added rib supports (Alteration. Remeber Plankk Rs?)

Those are a few from the past four years. Each one is a complete alteration to the slalom skateboard's design parameters.

Adding toe stops radically improves forward thrust with the pump down the hill (ask Dave Pirnack.)
Adding concave blocks increases pump leverage and thus also improves TRACTION
Adding rib supports reduces or completely eliminates flex better than any other engineered accessory.

Why are these devices added to a skateboard different than drilling four holes and adding another truck and two wheels?

Is it traction? Nothing improves a board's traction more than down force . . . accentuated by levered foam blocks.

It is speed? What's the speed advantage CBark, Pirnack and others have with custom toe blocks transferring pumping thrust more effectively into the board as opposed to lost torque energy from the foot sliding forward on the board?

Maybe someone could make the argument another truck and two wheels is different because it's so much more expensive and heavier than other accessories? Well, if that's the case, someone more clever than me, Albert Einstein and Oliver Wendell Holmes all together would have to create an acceptable accessory standard based on cost and mass.

If YOU can do it and make it work, power to you.

Some of these accessories have gone by the way side (Vlad's Plankk R for one) but there was never any discussion at the time of telling him he couldn't ride it. The same is true with toe block and Foam block modifications. I guess, though, they are only modifications until manufacturers start shipping board with such amenities already installed? Concave and nose curls are already doing it to a certain degree.

In summation and forthwith hertofore and in conclusion, here's my reasoning concerning six-wheeled skateboards: we've never banned anything before, why are we starting now?

So, for 2008 as a board member and as an ISSA voting member, my position is this:

Skateboards with another set of trucks and two more wheels are just skateboards with one more accessory. Therefore, as accessories have not been banned in the past, such an exception for this accessory would not be reasonable for the future.

P.S. Before some clever jail house lawyer asks, I believe motors, brakes and other powered mechanical devices are addressed in rules elsewhere. So, no, an Exkskate for GS would not be must another accessory alteration.

[Wesley Tucker]

Oh, one other thing:

Please note I haven't attacked anyone or cast aspersions on anyone who disagrees with me. I've just said as clear as I can my reasoning why skateboards with an extra truck and two wheels should be allowed to race.

[Joe Iacovelli]

Wow, I wholeheartedly agree with you Wes. My only caveat is if at the end of 2008 it proves that you NEED to ride a 6 to win GS, it honestly may change my opinion.

So allow me to ask for your distillation. ISSA votes to allow 6 wheels. Do we deny sanction to any race that snubs them?

Joe

[Wesley Tucker]

Joe,

I don't think we have to allow anything. All we need is a rule qualifying what is not permtted:

Only accessories enhancing or improving the racing skateboard's natural gravity-dependent acceleration and deceleration are permitted. This excludes powered motors, braking accessories and tow-ins (sorry Gilmour).

Any race promoter arbitratily banning a gravity enhancing accessory like an extra truck and two wheels would have to come up with a pretty strong argument. I might even read one here and change my mind.

Now, I'm no fool. I know we'll hear arguments boiled down to "it ain't traditional." Traditional to whom? The Ancient And Accepted Order Of Noble Skateboarders dating back to . . . 1974? Puh-leeze. I live in Charleston. If it didn't happen before Andrew Jackson's Presidency it's new fangled and subject to anyone's discretion.

I think the ISSA can state categorically what is not allowed and leave everything else open to the skater's whim. If they screw it on or use two sided tape to make it stick, have at it. As long as there are no batteries, hydrocarbons fuels, other flammable liquids, ignition sources, pistons, ropes, pulleys or levers involved, I think it's cool.

Then, if a race promoter bans ARBITRARILY such an accessory, then it would be the same as banning left-handed skateboarders who listen to FAIR WARNING* while riding their Ick Sticks (personal sore spot with me.) The ISSA would say the race does not meet ISSA guidelines and no status will be awarded and no world ranking points will be earned by the participants.

So, to answer your question the ISSA does not need a rule specifically about skateboards with extra trucks and more wheels. Just enforcement of the rules now about specific accessories.


*Lawd, strike that poor boy down!

[Wesley Tucker]

The more I think the more I need to qualify my position.

IF the ISSA wants to make a policy, rule, commandment, decree, decision or whatever stating:

A skateboard is four wheels, two trucks, a deck, grip tape and mounting hardware

That's fine. Then, however, it would have to address anything NOT on the list and start banning all kinds of goodies skaters use to go fast including toe stops and C-blocks. We know that won't go over well.

So, the definition of two trucks and four wheels is valid. Believe it or not, LOGICALLY a six wheeled skateboard has two trucks and four wheels . . . plus another truck and two more wheels as an accessory. Just like the rule says. I can clearly show anyone the two trucks and four wheel on my Ick RetroFlattie with an extra truck and two more wheels.

So, some clever legal eagle would change the definition to:

A skateboard is LIMITED four wheels, two trucks, a deck, grip tape and mounting hardware . . .

then start listing the acceptable accessories. And every accessory from now on would have to be discussed, argued and voted on to add to the list of what's legal. Very complicated.

The more I think about skateboards with an extra truck and two more wheels the more I'm convinced there is no way to LOGICALLY and REASONABLY ban their use in races while at the same time allowing anything else someone wants to slap on the board so they can go faster.

[Ramón Königshausen]

Six-Wheelers are time-eaters. There are too many possibilities to set them up. I'd rather have an extra training session than spend time on setting up a six wheeler properly. Has a convenient side-effect: it benefits your physical health/strength.

rmn

[Eric Brammer]

Thank You Mr. Tucker, you hit one of the big nails firmly on the head, and brought the other flush with one strike!
Six wheeled board certainly should be allowed, by Definition. Either that, or Sims made really Fat rollerskates with the Lonnie Toft model!
Pandora's box need not be opened,, and since the 'accessories' list that distinguishes a current Racing board from a 'normal' skateboard is pretty long, I'd hate to see where one percieved 'advantage' would be illogically plucked out to make 'the playing field level'.

As for ISSA's stand on things, and currently planned '4 wheels only' ruled races, no, ISSA should continue lending support for this season. I feel that the current plans were made with the idea that this ruling somehow simplified the specifications of what should be run in a slalom course (example: A Flowlab board is a skateboard, albeit using rollerblade wheels. Many, many wheels.[Too many wheels.] But, rollerskate wheels have been used on a Slalomboard by anyone here who has used Stradas, Kryptonics Cruise or Project wheels, and I think that'd include about anyone on the ruling board now? Should we ban Them for once using non-skateboarding equipment?).
I don't think anyone on a Flowlab would do very well, [and actually may be even slower than a kickflipper set-up] but who cares, they're Banned, so we'll probably not know. In any case, I wouldn't want to run a big-time race and also accomodate 3-4 Flowlab racers, so therein, ruling for 4 wheels makes a small bit of sense. Besides, these currently set contests announced their intentions early enough for racers to prepare their own equipment. No suprises, which is a good thing.

Which means the Slalom community needs to truely decide on the rules for upcoming years. This needs to be thought through, with the ramifications of setting a precedent honestly discussed without predisposed bias or irrational 'definitions' of just what a skateboard is, or rather, what it might be in 5 years. This sport, in all of it's varied disciplines, has Progressed Continuously, likely due to freedom of thought, expressionism, and Not having Knee-Jerk reactionary rules in place. 6 years back, I'd have been hard-pressed to envision Slalomboards with kicktails and the rear truck stuck under that tail, let alone hand-held braking controls that, yikes, Work! Rules we put in place need to fit safety criteria, make the sport uncomplicated, and provide the Racers with a sense of fairness, while still allowing for future progression to flourish.

I see none of that spirit or intent in the current '4-wheel only' rulings, even if I emphasize with race organizers on just how they could've brought such a rule into play to begin with.
I guess the thing though that ticks me off the most is the sheer Illogic of such a rule. That, and the ugly precedent(s) it might leave in it's wake.

[Hans Koraeus]

Beware! The sixwheelers are coming http://www.freebords.se/index.html