Should The ISSA Address The Issue Of Racing And Weather?

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What Affect Should Bad Weather Have On Slalom Race Events?

Race No Matter What
3
13%
Suspend Until Weather Improves; Cancel If Weather Does Not Improve
21
88%
 
Total votes: 24

Wesley Tucker
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Should The ISSA Address The Issue Of Racing And Weather?

Post by Wesley Tucker » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:51 pm

I was looking through the 2008 rules and couldn't find anything about inclement weather. Shouldn't this be addressed by the ISSA?

I'm not arguing for or against racing in the rain. My point is the ISSA should say in its rules what a race organizer can and cannot do in case of rain and as such what racers CAN EXPECT traveling to an event.

The way I see it there are three options:

1. Racers know in advance the race will go on no matter the weather.
2. Racers know in advance the race will be suspended, postponed or cancelled in case of bad weather.
3. No race will get ISSA sanctioning without an indoor alternative.

Let me say off the bat option #3 is untenable and should not be codified. I put it on the list, however, because it needs to be addressed.

Option #1 means a racer will pay his registration fee and travel to an event knowing there will be a race no matter the conditions and prizes (including the possibility of prize money.) If a skater doesn't want to take the chance of spending a lot of money on the outside chance of being a spectator then that's their choice to stay home.

Option #2 means a skater knows going in everyone at the event is in the same boat if the rains (or snow, hail, frogs, fire) should come. The event won't turn into a death match between the few skaters who decide to go for it no matter what.

Let me say also that option #4 is what the ISSA and slalom skateboarding must avoid: organizers deciding on the fly while on the hill what to do next. I think this is one of the biggest TURNOFFS to skating there is. Skaters have a right (by virtue of paying a registration fee) of knowing in advance what to expect.

That's what this is all about.

Oh, one other question: what constitutes "rain?" Well, my rule of thumb is when enough water falls to change the color of asphalt or concrete then it's time for a decision.

And another thing. Racers pay registration fees to cover a lot of items: race costs, parties, prizes, insurance, etc. It's unrealistic to ask for a FULL refund if an event is cancelled. The organizer has many up front costs and in many cases the fees are spent long before the racers ever get to the venue. Prize money, though, is a different matter. If an event has an announced purse of $300 and 30 skaters show up to watch the heavens open, then everyone gets $10. Rain does not mean the organizer gets to pocket some cash not awarded to race winners.
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Doug Kadzban
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Post by Doug Kadzban » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:32 pm

i voted "suspend" simply because i know how easy it is to slide out a skateboard, namely a slalom rig. i was skating my pavel around one day, just cruising around campus; not pushing the board at all...i hit a wet spot, the back end slid out, and i nearly ate it. even just a small wet spot could increase the risk of injury to racers. so, just like many other outdoor sports, ISSA should suspend the race in the event of inclement weather

Pat Chewning
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Post by Pat Chewning » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:00 pm

Rule 8.2 specifies what happens if the race should be abandoned. Therefore, there is an implicit allowance for the race organizer to abandon the race for various reasons.

As a competitor, I would accept the following as reasons for the race being abandoned:

A) Weather
B) Disaster (riot, war, earthquake, civil unrest, etc)


I would understand the race being abandoned for these reasons, but would blame the organizer:
A) Inadequate permits or permission to use the road (shut-down by the law)
B) Timing equipment failure.
C) Not enough cones
D) Other lame-ass excuses


I would not accept the following as reasons for abandoning or cancelling a race
A) Not enough people signed up
B) Sponsors flaked out at the last minute

================================

I do not think the rules need adjustment in this area......

Wesley Tucker
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:21 pm

*********************************
8.2. ABANDONMENT OF RACE
If the race should be abandoned by the race officials, the following shall apply to determine the final placing of the racers:
• During Qualifying or Single-Lane Racing:
• If the entire field of racers has not completed their 1st run, the race is declared void and no final results posted.
• If the entire field of racers has completed their 1st run and the race is abandoned during the 2nd run, then only the results of the 1st run shall be used to determine the placing.
• During Head-to-Head Racing:
• Racers not entering the head-to-head rounds receive results as usual, based on the completed qualifying round.
• Racers eliminated during complete rounds receive placing as usual.
• Racers currently competing in an abandoned round (both runs have not been completed) will receive the remaining placing based on their qualifying times

********************************

Sorry, Pat. This doesn't say JACK to a racer traveling under what conditions a race will be canceled, postponed or suspended. It just says what will happen IF that occurs.

"IF' the race should be abandoned."

So, if it's raining cats and dogs and the race IS NOT abandoned then carry on.

And it doesn't say that if two races experience the exact same conditions then both are managed in the same manner. Skaters at one race in a deluge can watch it from the motel room while skaters at another better get an aerodynamic poncho because qualifying starts at 9:00.

That's not what I addressed

So the question remains: should the ISSA determine what an organizer MUST do in the event of incliment weather?
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Pat Chewning
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Should ISSA rules specify race closure due to weather?

Post by Pat Chewning » Mon Jan 21, 2008 10:02 pm

Wesley Tucker wrote:
Sorry, Pat. This doesn't say JACK to a racer traveling under what conditions a race will be canceled, postponed or suspended. It just says what will happen IF that occurs.

"IF' the race should be abandoned."

....
So the question remains: should the ISSA determine what an organizer MUST do in the event of incliment weather?
I agree that rule 8.2 does not say what an organizer MUST do in the event of bad weather.

I do not think that the ISSA should dictate this, because it depends on so many things. This should be left to the race organizer's discretion.

A) Reliability of local weather predictions
B) Availability of shelter near the race course
C) Ability to contact the racers to let them know if the race is "ON" or "OFF"
D) Local weather and race surface conditions (will it dry out quickly after the rain).
E) And other stuff.....

Do you have particularly good or bad examples that might illustrate what you are trying to accomplish?

Vincent Berruchon
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Post by Vincent Berruchon » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:41 pm

So no guarantee that an organizer ask the racers to race no matter how bad the weather is.
Violent rain or even little rain, slalom racing under the rain is not really something I realy want to practice too much with usual slalom skateboards. It does just mean nothing!

Longboarding under the rain or on wet road can be an option if security measures are excellent (at least speed downhill qualifications under the rain is usually OK, but for multiple racers together it is another story).

To come back to slalom I'm not even sure that asking to the racer to vote or listen to the racers representatives is a good solution.

Is there some people that really think we should race under bad weather or wet roads?
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Weather Stand!

Post by Claude Regnier » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:41 pm

I think the only thing here that needs to be addressed in this topic is whether or not ISSA sanctions events run in the rain if not advertised as such!

Having participated in such an event I personally do not think they are a good idea to have included in any santioned events by ISSA.

I can't believe I had to post in another one Wesley's (damn, don't even know what to call them)?
Last edited by Claude Regnier on Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Many Happy Pumps!

Wesley Tucker
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Re: Should ISSA rules specify race closure due to weather?

Post by Wesley Tucker » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:43 pm

Pat Chewning wrote:I agree that rule 8.2 does not say what an organizer MUST do in the event of bad weather.

I do not think that the ISSA should dictate this, because it depends on so many things. This should be left to the race organizer's discretion.

A) Reliability of local weather predictions
B) Availability of shelter near the race course
C) Ability to contact the racers to let them know if the race is "ON" or "OFF"
D) Local weather and race surface conditions (will it dry out quickly after the rain).
E) And other stuff.....

Do you have particularly good or bad examples that might illustrate what you are trying to accomplish?
Pat,

I'm referring to RACE DAY decisions. This has nothing to do with a promoter making the call the week or the day before the event.

On the hill.
It starts raining.

Does the ISSA say the race must be stopped or does it say the show must go on?
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Post by Kevin Dunne » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:49 am

Just for the record, I am AGAINST inclement weather...It should be sunny every day. I don't give a shit if it rains at night, as long as it is dry during the day.

Vincent Berruchon
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Post by Vincent Berruchon » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:07 am

I wrote: Is there some people that really think we should race on wet roads?
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Cyril Schardijn
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Post by Cyril Schardijn » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:20 pm

Vincent Berruchon wrote:
I wrote:Is there some people that really think we should race on wet roads?
Tried it once and didn't like the kiss I got from the road....

Hans Koraeus
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Post by Hans Koraeus » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:16 pm

So far there has never been a big race in Europe that has been canceled due to bad wheather. I only know of one in the States (was it Breckenridge 2006?). But it has been damn close many times and often the race has not been finished in the way it was supposed to be.

I think there should always be an indoor alternative for the higher status events. It does not have to be good but somwhere you can get the results you are missing. This will not always be perfect since it will often be under conditions that you don't train for and I can understand those who think it is not fair.

My view is: "Better to get a result in a 25 cone course on flat in a garage than no result at all". We should always favor those who do travel to events and give them their competition and their ranking points.

The rule normally used is that it is up to the racer if he wants to race or not and when he thinks it is too wet. Or the organizer. It's enough that one racer or the organizer doesn't think it is ok and the race will be on hold.

ISSA ranking points MUST be given out according to what was promised. Even if this means a 25 cone garage course. This is not good but it should happen so rarley that we could live with it if it happens once every second year.

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Post by Brian Parsons » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:45 am

Racing in wet conditions is clearly not optimal. However if it can be done safely, like the WV race several years ago, then the organizer should be allowed to make that decision.

I don’t usually participate in these types of discussions. However, it is my observation that the ISSA is currently hurting slalom racing by limiting new ideas and innovation. The reality is that modern skateboard racing is still emerging any attempt to limit the scope of a skater/racers imagination is unhealthy.

If the ISSA is to be relevant, expanding the realm of skateboard racing should be the primary focus. From the outside looking in I have only seen roadblocks.

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Post by Karl Floitgraf » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:13 am

We ran a race in the rain in Needham last year. Basic status and it only got dry enough for one complete round of runs. Before we started I told everyone that this was a bad idea and skate at your own risk. Still lots of fun!

It was still a good event Bryan Werner and my times were .1 apart.

I also got to take a run on the trocadaro in the rain last year on the GS... it was awesome as it was just to make the results count. I was sliding the whole way down.


I think if it is questionable weather but racers and organizers want to continue then they should. BUT if enough of the skaters choose not to race or if some skaters(top of the order or something) have a big advantage like a dry course, then maybe they should run the event for fun but it shouldn't count for points or overall event standings.
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Erik Basil
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Post by Erik Basil » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:52 pm

I think that, if there's a chance of rain, it's the responsibility of the race organizer to announce what the plan is for rain and when the drop-dead will be. Speedboarding in the rain is one thing, but slalom racing that way is just nuts.
I ride fast boards, slowly.

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:21 pm

Erik Basil wrote:I think that, if there's a chance of rain, it's the responsibility of the race organizer to announce what the plan is for rain and when the drop-dead will be. Speedboarding in the rain is one thing, but slalom racing that way is just nuts.
It's not the organizer that will drop dead so better leave it up to the racer that puts his a..s on the line. But if the organizer stops the race before any racer complain then it is ok. But if a racer says stop before the organizer that should certainly count as well.

Erik Basil
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Post by Erik Basil » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:22 pm

When skaters may be driving for hours to the race, I think it's appropriate and considerate to set a drop-dead date/time at which point the race organizer will call the race as on, or cancelled for rain/snow/sleet/riots/volcanic activity, etc... The situation can and does dictate how far in advance the cutoff needs to be.
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Zack Levitt
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Post by Zack Levitt » Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:33 am

Erik,

Mother nature is funny. I dont think you can call a race days in advance for weather. It seems like the weather guys are off. I think a racer needs to decide, for him or her self. On the hill, well if it is wet you dont race. However, I believe in st louis last year they dried the hill. I made the decision not to fly there at the last min because of the weather, but it went on. Oh well I am rambling and probably off topic, but a race should only be called if the hill is determined to be to wet, day of.

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Post by Erik Basil » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:15 pm

Zack,
I think you're right on at least some level, which is why I think it's appropriate for races to be called off when we wake up and it's raining, or just stopped, for example. In some cases, though, when people are traveling a long way and there's a chance of bad weather, I think it's fair to announce a go/no-go cutoff. Time and money to travel, etc...
I ride fast boards, slowly.

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