2009 Rules Update - DQ for poor behaviour

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Jani Soderhall
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2009 Rules Update - DQ for poor behaviour

Post by Jani Soderhall » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:53 am

The old ISSA rules used to have a statement about the possibility to DQ someone for poor behaviour. If I'm not mistaken it was removed in the 2008 revision and I would suggest it is put back again.

Note, that it doesn't have to be in the rules to apply, but it'll give the authority to the organizer to act in the best interest of the sport by stating how such a sanction could be applied (and the consequences on the results). Ie a DQ for poor, harmful, or otherwise unsporty behaviour should lead to immediate DQ, ie moved to the bottom of the list of participants, or entirely removed from that that discipline, or from the whole race - to be discussed.

/Jani

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Post by Stefano Bellingeri » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:09 pm

I agree because it is time to behave correctly for the sport environment, but do not forget that when we were twenty years old we did all a lot of mistakes. Now that we are forty, we improved a bit...just a bit. Give to everybody the chance to make mistakes, but ruled!
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Unsporting behavior is already a DQ

Post by Pat Chewning » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:19 pm

5.4. DISQUALIFICATIONS
The racer is disqualified during the run for any of the following:
· Unsuccessfully passing through the course.
· Displacing more than 20% of the cones. (20% + 1 cone is a DQ)
· Displacing any cone by contact above the knees.
· Placing any part of the body (including hands and feet) onto the course surface during
the race.
· Unsporting conduct (interfering with a racer, damaging equipment, etc.)
Please read the current rules before proposing a new one.

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Post by Vincent Berruchon » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:33 am

Pat I think Jani is talking about more than just a DQ for a run.
When it comes to dangerous acts for the public, judges and/or equipment, how do you want to show this discipline in a good way!

Lot of people have been shocked about some totally inappropriate behaviors last week end.
I'm even feared that officials ask how this can happened soon... :( :(
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Post by Pat Chewning » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:26 am

I would support a "Red Card" (DQ for entire race or event) for major infractions.

I would support banning a racer FOR LIFE for certain actions (e.g. vandalism against property at the race, other crimes during a race). [e.g. What occured at the recent downhill event "Maryhill Festival of Speed"]

It will be difficult to write such a rule to outline what infractions lead to:
A) DQ for the run
B) DQ for the race or the event
C) Banishment for life

But if someone could write it well, I would support it.

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Re: Unsporting behavior is already a DQ

Post by Jani Soderhall » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:42 am

Pat Chewning wrote:Please read the current rules before proposing a new one.
I agree, my mistake (I was so sure I did not even check - I recalled people trying to ridicule this rule) but it's worthwhile having this discussion still.

I now think that it's not enough to DQ someone in that run. I want to have rules to DQ someone out the race entirely.

I had not yet thought of the situation where we had to ban someone for life. I hope we don't need that.

/Jani

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Post by Toby Warg » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:24 pm

A lifetime ban is crazy. How can you possibly tell a 50 year old that he/she can't race because of something he/she did when he/she was 10 or 15?
What if he/she didn't even do it, but just got the blame?

I think a ban for the rest of the season, or this plus the next season would make anyone think twice about acting bad, and get time to reflect on his/her behavior.

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Post by Martijn Nijs » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:42 pm

If Big Mac in tennis would have been sanctioned in accordance with what is being uttered here, he would have had a very short career.
Give the guy a break and accept that young racers will sometimes be a bit over emotional!

If I were to have been banned for every time I got over emotional on a forum or towards friends I would not be welcome anywhere and have no friends at all.

Someone wise once said, he who is without sin shall throw the first stone!

Martijn

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Post by Robert Gaisek » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:59 pm

I think there should be some sort of punishment to make the message very clear.
Act like you want others to act towards you.
Sure you can flip when you are angry and the whole world are against you, but there must be a limit of bad behaviour.

Maybe a yellow card first and if that´s not enough......red and out from the comp.
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Post by Martijn Nijs » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:06 pm

Sounds more constructive and less emotional from the perspective of the organiser....

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Post by Pat Chewning » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:41 pm

Toby Warg wrote:A lifetime ban is crazy. How can you possibly tell a 50 year old that he/she can't race because of something he/she did when he/she was 10 or 15?
.
The specific incident that I think would warrant a lifetime ban would be the one that recently happened at the Maryhill Festival of Speed (downhill racing, IGSA).

There were some racers who destroyed community property (the property of the community hosting the event). The community support has been lost. Future events may not be held at this location because of those actions.

For the good of the future of the sport, these types of actions should have a severe penalty. Losing a racer or two FOR LIFE is a small price to pay in order to be able to hold future events for the hundreds of racers who can behave themselves.

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Post by Martijn Nijs » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:51 pm

But, dear Pat,

This thread had nothing to do with what happend at the MHFOS!
It was related to something that occurred in France.....
Please lets be as accurate as one can in these kind of cases, this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with what took place in Maryhill!!!!!!!!

Martijn

PS. I'm saddened by the vandalism that took place at Maryhill, let that be beyond any doubt, disgusting!!!!

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Post by Toby Warg » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:47 pm

I'm from Sweden. I don't believe in lifetime bans.
I can kill someone and be out in 15 years. Here, we call it rehabilitation.
Sorry if I believe that people can change, and that you can resolve any situation.

I have no doubt in my mind that there will be another race at Maryhill in 2009. If there is a will, there is a way.

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Post by Pat Chewning » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:13 am

Martijn Nijs wrote:But, dear Pat,

This thread had nothing to do with what happend at the MHFOS!
It was related to something that occurred in France.....
Please lets be as accurate as one can in these kind of cases, this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with what took place in Maryhill!!!!!!!!

Martijn
Well, there was bad behavior at Maryhill.
It was a skateboard race.
This thread is about bad behavior and what to do about it at skateboard races.
I'm closer to Maryhill than I am to France.....

Shouldn't our ISSA rules be applicable to the whole spectrum of possible bad behavior, and be applied equally to events around the world?

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:27 am

Pat Chewning wrote:Shouldn't our ISSA rules be applicable to the whole spectrum of possible bad behavior, and be applied equally to events around the world?
Agree, that's why I posted this topic - for future events and for all types of bad behaviour. My idea is to give better guidance to the organizers who all of a sudden are confronted with this problem. Let's help them make take the appropriate action.

And a final note. For those who want to take stronger action than the ISSA rules suggests, I would let them. The race organizer has the final word on any such matter.

/Jani

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Post by Lenny Poage » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:09 pm

I just stumbled on this thread, but find myself in agreement with this. Bottom line, we don't want to be, and shouldn't be overly uptight, BUT we are at a stage where many slalom scenes aren't very big and the occasional race is the biggest glimpse people get of us. If someone's REALLY out of line we, race organizers, should have the ability to DQ the individual. I can only speak from doing the KFCF, but an extremely out of line individual, especially with no appropriate reaction from me, could VERY easily spoil the good thing we've got going, cause the race to be cancelled in the future, and, in short, throw everything we've spent years building up.
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:45 pm

What happened at Maryhill? Stop tap dancing around it and say it. Was there a fight, a theft, a verbal assault or did someone throw a skateboard at someone else in a tuck going 50 miles an hour?
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:48 pm

And just for the record -

Every race organizer has always had the right to withhold service to someone acting like a jerk. If a racer gets out of hand and stays that way, they are outta' here.

What I would add, though, is a simple clause to the rule that says, "Continued unsportsmanlike or CRIMINAL behavior WILL results in expulsion from the event with no refund of fees."
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Post by Pat Chewning » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:37 am

Wesley Tucker wrote:What happened at Maryhill? Stop tap dancing around it and say it. Was there a fight, a theft, a verbal assault or did someone throw a skateboard at someone else in a tuck going 50 miles an hour?
The specific incident that I think would warrant a lifetime ban would be the one that recently happened at the Maryhill Festival of Speed (downhill racing, IGSA).

There were some racers who destroyed community property (the property of the community hosting the event). The community support has been lost. Future events may not be held at this location because of those actions.


http://www.silverfishlongboarding.com/f ... alism.html

Does that answer your question?

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Post by Donald Campbell » Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:58 am

to make this short and sweet:
its always up to the organizer of any race to cast this decision to dq a racer for misbehaviour.
banning any racer for lifetime sounds ridiculous at the moment.
who is eligible to oveerule any organizers interest in having a certain racer at his contest?
we all have never seen anything really gross happen during the last few years which makes this discussion worthy enough to be held at all.
bringing incidents from a dh race to the plate is not the way to discuss about slalom in general either

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Post by Martijn Nijs » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:37 pm

Pat Chewning wrote:
Martijn Nijs wrote:But, dear Pat,

This thread had nothing to do with what happend at the MHFOS!
It was related to something that occurred in France.....
Please lets be as accurate as one can in these kind of cases, this thread has nothing whatsoever to do with what took place in Maryhill!!!!!!!!

Martijn
Well, there was bad behavior at Maryhill.
It was a skateboard race.
This thread is about bad behavior and what to do about it at skateboard races.
I'm closer to Maryhill than I am to France.....

Shouldn't our ISSA rules be applicable to the whole spectrum of possible bad behavior, and be applied equally to events around the world?
Pat,

That's like comparing American football to soccer or even Rugby to soccer, no way that kite's gonna fly.....
Shit will always be drawn to the fan, especially when the top of the sport is involved. Ego's flare up, commitment is questioned and the will to score is involved!!!!
Be subtle about the rule setting, this is undoubtedly something that needs to be looked at on a case by case basis!

Martijn

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