2010 Rules alteration: 9.2 Starting Ramp

general rules, special-tight-giant rules

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Neil Orta
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Post by Neil Orta » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:32 am

With talk of there being a BAR at Sizzler how and when will it be used?

Lou Statman
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Post by Lou Statman » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:15 pm

Only on the tight. *
Ha ha ha... I saw that.

Joe Iacovelli
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Sun Mar 14, 2010 5:36 pm

Neil,

I understand the BAR will be an option at the top of the GS hill.

Joe

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Post by Donald Campbell » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:08 pm

BARS at brixlegg
the BIG BOYZ use BARS at all the races.
why?
because they are BIG BOYZ

Joe Iacovelli
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:24 pm

Nice ramp

Image

Greg Stubbs
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Post by Greg Stubbs » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:07 pm

I believe Lou meant to state COPYING as opposed to COPPING in his text. He was probably thinking about COPING or something as he was writing it, knowing him. It's going to be a really good roll-in. It's either that or one of those bungee sling-shot thing-a-majiggys.

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Post by Neil Orta » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:27 pm

Lou Statman wrote:Only on the tight. *
Cancel plane tickets- $200.00
Cancel rental car-$0
Cancel Hotel- $0

Avoid all hassles that have come with the lack of current information on the Sizzler......
Priceless

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:44 pm

To be fair Neil, you are asking in an ISSA rules forum, not on the Sizzler thread

flipside of the coin?

Lou could have answered your question (like I tried to do), instead of being a punk.

Joe

Neil Orta
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Post by Neil Orta » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:57 pm

Joe Iacovelli wrote:To be fair Neil, you are asking in an ISSA rules forum, not on the Sizzler thread

flipside of the coin?

Lou could have answered your question (like I tried to do), instead of being a punk.

Joe
Fair???
Asking a question about Sizzler ramps in a thread where they are being discussed?

OR

Not asking the question in a thread (Sizzler thread) where where Outlaws were asked by another Outlaw NOT to answer questions about the Sizzler?

I met Lou in NC and he is a great guy, I know he was being "a punk".......

Touche. and back at ya Lou...

See Ya'll in Texas!
Last edited by Neil Orta on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rick Floyd
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Post by Rick Floyd » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:22 am

We should let Danny Way build us a start ramp. :-)

Pumped to go off the TOBAR...

Too bad there isn't a way to make these things out of fiberglass and aluminum and make it so they break down completely and ship in a box. Please send two BARs, thank you.
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T Whalen
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Post by T Whalen » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:49 am

Following up on Rick's train of thought on the idea of portability, do these BARs provide an opportunity to open up areas with smaller hills with the ability to put on a higher level race?

I guess what I am really asking, is a BAR a mechanism to get races held in more areas and help grow the sport by providing more challenging racing even where good hills are sparse?

Claude Regnier
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Big hills

Post by Claude Regnier » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:13 pm

You don't really need big hills or big ramps to have a really good event. If the event is fun competitors will come and make the event better.

You wouldn't want to build a BAR ramp just because you are hardly racing on a hill. Yes big ramp, bid hills are narly but slalom is about ones ability to propel and move a skateboard through a set course faster then his or her competitor.

Most skaters agree that as long as it is not flat they will travel for it. It is easy to ruin a big hill or a small hill with course setting and then there is making it better then ever......
Many Happy Pumps!

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Post by Donald Campbell » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:59 pm

#1:kids are more eager to embrace the sport when they see the gnar factor.when you reach the point where they have to accept that they can't skate through the course with their streetdecks,then you have achieved something-they start to respect what they see
#2 bars are a good way to catch the attention of the audience-they are stoked and also have respect for what they see
#3 the sport has to raise the bar as it has been done in the last years.bars definitely help to raise the bar again-waht a nice game of words.
#4 implemented properly for any course bars can really crank the whole level up.

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Post by Rick Stanziale » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:28 am

Donald Campbell wrote:#1:kids are more eager to embrace the sport when they see the gnar factor.when you reach the point where they have to accept that they can't skate through the course with their streetdecks,then you have achieved something-they start to respect what they see
#2 bars are a good way to catch the attention of the audience-they are stoked and also have respect for what they see
#3 the sport has to raise the bar as it has been done in the last years.bars definitely help to raise the bar again-waht a nice game of words.
#4 implemented properly for any course bars can really crank the whole level up.
#5 intentionally left blank
#6 big start ramps eliminate people who can't really ride skateboards

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Post by Lou Statman » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:42 pm

http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e155/ ... H00240.flv

I agree with Claude slalom is about ones ability to propel and move a skateboard through a set course faster then his or her competitor. The BAR just gives you another way to do just that.

If the timing strip is placed on ground at the top of the course it wouldn't matter if you went off the BAR, a regular start ramp, or push started the timer would start the same for everyone.

If you don't want to use the BAR no one's going to laugh at you... Well Okay someone will laugh at you, but that guy's a dick. the rest of us will understand.
Ha ha ha... I saw that.

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Post by Marcos Soulsby-Monroy » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:25 pm

Lou Statman wrote:http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e155/ ... H00240.flv

I agree with Claude slalom is about ones ability to propel and move a skateboard through a set course faster then his or her competitor. The BAR just gives you another way to do just that.

If the timing strip is placed on ground at the top of the course it wouldn't matter if you went off the BAR, a regular start ramp, or push started the timer would start the same for everyone.

If you don't want to use the BAR no one's going to laugh at you... Well Okay someone will laugh at you, but that guy's a dick. the rest of us will understand.
I'm with Claude and 66 on this one too. Don't get me wrong big hills are fun too, but it is hard to get people to try slalom on venues like those, huge ramps are the same thing. I like Lou's idea as well that way people can choose a start that is comfortable to them.
As Luck would have it . . .

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Post by Greg Stubbs » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:03 pm

Image

Image

Eddy Martinez
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Post by Eddy Martinez » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:09 pm

Just Lurking. Talk amoungst yourselves. Damm Lou Lou Bear looks like you are racing the B. A. R. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws. Was up Rick and Neil: ) Hey Donny.


Image

willy demis
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Post by willy demis » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:59 pm

MAN I wish I had a shop that large! Excellent looking ramp, gents. I'm brand new to the sport and would happily go down that ramp. Looks REALLY big, but rather mellow in its transitions. Nice idea on the hand-holds to help move around each section, by the way...

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Post by Donald Campbell » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:43 pm

texas guys are spot on what the sport needs
by the way:on our ramp we see beginner kids go down with ease,beginner kids!!!!!!
and we have a brutal roll-in.
that ramp is so mellow and predictable,congrats on such an awesome job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by Lou Statman » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:07 am

Thanks Donald. I took a few runs down the ramp today. It's lots of fun. If you can ride a normal rollin you should have no problem with this one. Stubbs hit it on his tight / hybrid board with no problem.

Looking forward to seeing everyone at the Sizzler.
Ha ha ha... I saw that.

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Post by Donald Campbell » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:48 am

lou:that is the best and easiest bar i have seen so far.
rolling in on such a ramp is in most cases easier and way smoother than on the average height starting ramps.
to the few scared folks:if you can make it on any smaller ramp,this bar makes only one difference:more predictable and a way smoother entry into the course,as a matter of fact this baby is smooth as butter.the roll-in section is also way easier to make than any small ramp.
you are looking at a way easier start than any small ramp can offer.

i am really unbiased giving this statement,i am talking out of experience.

this bar is more than perfect and should be wonderful to ride at any race.
since it is in texas,go for it.
anybody who goes down there will walk away with a big smile on his face.

on the other hand:fear is something you have to make out with yourself,if you are too afraid you miss out on a super experience!

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Post by Greg Stubbs » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:52 pm


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Post by Rick Floyd » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:02 pm

Looks way mellower than the Dixie BARs - and most people rode those just fine...the DBARs are a rush!

Image
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Post by Greg Stubbs » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:35 pm

This BAR is way mellow. You just have to hold for a sec before you get to the thrust at the bottom. First time I rolled it I got back on my tail a bit because I was expecting the tranistion to end a bit quicker than it did. So it's roll, hold it, thrust out.

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Post by Rick Floyd » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:32 am

Greg Stubbs wrote:So it's roll, hold it, thrust out.
That's what I keep telling her.
"All the money in the world can not buy sharing the excitement of life with other people. Nothing else matters."

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John Gilmour
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Big ramps promote racing that looks as gay as speed suits.

Post by John Gilmour » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:21 am

Big ramps just mean we will end up racing on pussy hills. There is no thrill to racing on pussy hills with some bigger ramp to try to make up for the lack of hill speed.

I don't care how big the ramp is... I want to race down a hill that most ordinary people would not even think of skating down.. A big ramp onto a gentle hills is weak... it just means you lose speed throughout the course until you trickle down to a speed just above pumping speed or worse if there is a head wind.

LAME LAME LAME.

Injury... you can go off the side of a big ramp (who ever heard of rolling straight off the edge of the hill?)- and as they get bigger they should be wider----- with that comes complexity , race delays, issues with rain, condensation etc... hassles... cost.. transport, assembly mistakes, structural problems...liability forget it. It's a freaking losing battle. It also allows unpracticed dorks to try and race thinking if they just survive the ramp they can race on the gentle hill....well guess what??? The Dorks will not survive the ramp...they will get injured. I remember a kid breaking his leg on the Red Bull Urban Waves ramp in Brooklyn. If that same kid saw a huge hill... he probably would say to himself....."Hmmm from my experience..that hill looks a big too hairy for me...I better sit this one out and practice at home" But a ramp...well kids think if they can survive the 3 seconds of acceleration they will be fine..

Some won't survive.

The big ramps are stupid.

(If the hill is too steep... a kid can run it out... if a ramp is too steep.... the kid gets to eat it face first)

Promoters.... Find a bigger hill. Spend the 3 weekends you would spend building ramps, annoying your neighbors with construction, and spending your beer money on 2 huge ramps no one wants to store in their cluttered garages-----spend those hours of effort a different way.

1. Borrow or buy an Ipad with 3G or use a regular one with MIFI pocket internet router (the iPhone is too small to be useful- and laptops aren't very good either). Just buy the iPad..... it will be cheaper than the ramps.
2. Click google maps
3. Switch to topographical view (bottom left corner)
4. Start driving around to find good hills, the touch screen interface and large size is IDEAL for locating hills. You can look at the topographical concentric lines and still read street names like - "Summit Ave. Look out point, Hill Street, Overlook Ave, City View, Mountain High, Peak Ave, Signal Hill, Clear View, xxxxxx canyon , xxxx ridge, etc....

If the hill is so big that you wouldn't even consider using a ramp higher than 2-3 feet.

Well.

You have found the right hill.


Big ramps will suck the speed out of our finishes. The speed doesn't last on a gentle grade.

Real hills for real men.

Small Ramps are lame...but still OK. Big ramps are way lamer. (don't get me wrong if I am presented with a big ramp on a pussy hill...yes it makes it better for me...but big ramps will lead to more and more pussy lame hills.)

The only time I ever considered building ramps..and that was to launch off of the top of a van was because we had a lame hill that was not race worthy...and adding the big ramp...would not have made it any more race worthy....just a little less boring.

IF you have a longish flatter section on top of a hill followed be a steep section which is short and then a longer fairly steep section... then a ramp could make the top of the hill usable to extend your course.....this is the only time I could see a large ramp having any value.... other than that...

Race on a better hill.

This is a thread which IMHO isn't worth discussing.

I can understand a 4 foot high ramp so spectators can see you... (But for gods sake... just find a steep enough hill so that when a skater is 20 feet up the hill he is 4 feet higher than everyone else- and only let those 2 starting skaters go that high up.

and given most races personally....because they are held on gentle hills a 5 year kid on a Big Wheel Trike could roll down... a bigger ramp would be marginally better on such a lame hill. But a great hill is way better than a big ramp on a gentle hill.

If you only have a lame hill..... DO NOT BUILD A BIG RAMP AND HOST A RACE. Go to someone else's race that has a good hill instead.


** Stubbs...no offense... that ramp you built is a work of art and looks solid and well designed.. but you can not depend on others to build something as structurally sound. I've raced on some flimsy ramps in Japan that were death traps waiting to collapse. I've seen people punch right through ramps' bottoms, fall off ramps (yes even tiny 2 foot high ramps).

It is hard/impossible to execute a safe roll or knee slide on a skinny ramp.

For instance..what if your wheels fall off on top of a huge ramp? (think that is impossible??? It has happened- and resulted in an injury to a significant/skilled/experienced racer who has WON races before which IMHO would likely just been a knee slide on a steep hill without a ramp). So what if this were to happen to a lesser skilled/experienced racer? Let's just not go there.

If you guys are hell bent on woodshop...make a great timer grandstand, some bracing for inflatable impact bags for stopping, and some tall platforms for videographers.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour

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Post by Rick Floyd » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:50 pm

"This is a thread which IMHO isn't worth discussing."

Fooled me. ;-)

PS - I LOVE the big ramps and not one time have I launched off one on to a "pussy hill"...right Texas/NC?
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Joe Iacovelli
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:03 pm

Wouldn't it be great to live in a world where you could just drive around, find a big hill, and have the town agree to close it?

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Texas...everything is bigger in Texas.

Post by John Gilmour » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:24 pm

In Texas ...that is one race I would like to go to. But in past experience often big ramps are used on sub par hills.


So in that regard..go for it... Big hill with an even bigger ramp...I am all for it.

I just object to big ramp + lame hill.

Joe.... borrow an Ipad... go hill hunting.. its pretty amazing and easy with it.

You don't have to be a cartographer like PSR to find a hill.. this makes it remarkably easy.

I tend to look for hills with lots of concentric lines in housing developments (dense roadways so people have alternative routes)

Also the satellite view is very helpful
One good turn deserves another
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Joe Iacovelli
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:16 pm

My point John is we've got big hills all over. Closing them to traffic is the issue. In Austin it cost almost $1000 to do so. Other places its just not possible. I'm glad you are involved and interested, but am not sure about where you are expending your efforts.

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Try to tack onto other events.. I think they make for the be

Post by John Gilmour » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:13 am

for instance Joe your work with the Antrim race...

The roads are already closed. We just added a race.

Same with my July 4th skateboard slalom races. And my beginner slalom course at Tavern on the Green in NYC which ran for 20 years and my memorial Drive slalom course in Cambridge MA which still runs every Sunday.

These roads are closed on a regular basis and made for good slalom. No ramps required. The July 4th road Storrow Drive is closed to cars every 4th of July, the Memorial Drive course is road is closed to cars every Sunday. NYC's Central Park is closed to cars on Weekends.

Here is another event.

http://www.nwsource.com/shopping/blog/g ... cmpid=2336

-again another tacked on skateboard race to a grouping of events.. where the porta potties, police coverage and road closure is already done .

Anyway before you got on this topic we were discussing changing ramp rules. I would like to see the ramps stay small SO THAT the hills HAVE to stay large (Texas is of course and exception with big hills and ramps).

I'd like to make an exception that big ramps can ONLY be used on hills faster than 25mph.

Hey... it just my 2 cents..

Bigger faster BETTER.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour

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