Pros should race first

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Steve Pederson
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Pros should race first

Post by Steve Pederson » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:09 pm

Does anyone agree that that Pros should race first at the larger races? At MAIN - MAJOR races. If a race doesn't have a Pro section, then Class A can run first - Before Classes B and C.

At the large races with news coverage, the reporters/photographers are usually at the race early in the day. If there's an audience at a race, It's usually in the morning. If Pros ran their qualifying and eliminations first, the news and audience would have a much better chance of seeing some pro racing. I don't think it's like standing all day at an outdoor concert watching a bunch of warm up bands waiting for Led Zeppelin to play last. People just don't stick around at slalom races.

Typically Kids run first, then Women or Masters then AM/Open then Pros last. I've never seen audiences or news crews stick around to watch the pros run last.

Pros tend to be the ones who train/practice and travel to races the most. They should be given priority to encourage them to continue attending races.

Right now, when the Pros run last, Often time runs out. Or the road permit is about to expire. Then the pros don't get practice runs like all the other classes got earlier in the day. Or they have their finals in the dark. - Like this race which used car headlights to light the course. The cone judges were about the only ones left to watch the final brackets.

Image

Here's a good tv report. Good that the young, future racers got coverage, - but no Pros. And this was a World Championship race. You'd think it was a casual kids event from the report. Let's make things easier the news crews - Run Pros earlier.

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C ... OttawaHome

Organizers can arrive before racers and make sure the timers are working during the morning practice session. Then run the Pros.

Or set a time --- something like Noon. Start the day running another class. and then at noon. run the Pros no matter how far along the other class is. then everyone knows when the best racing will be.

The Pro class should take less time to run - they hit less cones - and they are faster!.

When extra classes are added with local racers starting at half-way down the hill (at their first ever race) - Let them run last. Let the serious racers who train hard and travel, race first. Thanks!!!!!

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Re: Pros should race first

Post by Richy Carrasco » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:30 pm

I will have to second this Idea! The time is now for better racing! Yes if anyone complains about this they can turn pro and run first also!

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Re: Pros should race first

Post by Jani Soderhall » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:24 pm

Steve Pederson wrote:Or set a time --- something like Noon. Start the day running another class. and then at noon. run the Pros no matter how far along the other class is. then everyone knows when the best racing will be.

The Pro class should take less time to run - they hit less cones - and they are faster!
Good thoughts Steve. We've had this problem numerous times, so I fully agree. I think the ideal time is mid afternoon for the Pro races, but that depends also upon the location. Mid afternoon in Texas or south of France may not be the best time of the day. But for the Paris races in late May, that's a good time.

This is not something we can regulate within the ISSA, but we can inform the organizers that this should be the rule.

You're right also about the journalists/photographers, they are always there early in the morning, and at that time the only ones out are the ams... It takes a lot for them to return later in the day, something we may still have to deal with. If at least we could tell them that the pro class will start at 1PM, then they know exactly when to get there.

/Jani

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Re: Pros should race first

Post by Hans Koraeus » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:49 pm

Yes, I think we have had some tries in the past to set up a guide line for how to run a slalom event. A guide line that is flexible and that takes into account all the knowledge we have. Because we a have a lot of knowledge with all the event that has been done out there. It's also good for racers and organizers to have this done about the same on the big events so you know what to expect on race day. Same as for rules. It's easy to get confused when rules and race day organisation is different on every event. That is why rules are needed. And maybe why a "event race day guide line" would help to.

It's only a problem with bigger events with a large field of racer and classes. And it does not have to be one single guide line. It could be a couple of different ones depending on the situation and type of event. But all well thought through and tested.

Unfortunately slalom events have not the reputation of being able to follow specific times that are setup before hand. But this is really important if we want to invite audience/press or a webcast where we want to show off the best racing. At the Flatland Freestyle World Champs in Sweden this year that was the case. The webcast was officially announced and you just had to be ready to go with the event at a precise time. And you had to make sure it was finished before the end of the setup time.

In another similar topic just recently this was brought up again. There I had this idea of a compressed two-hour "audience/media" spectacle.
Hans Koraeus wrote:I tend to agree that events are too long and can be made shorter. And so also the courses. ;-) Max 40-50 cones. You want the audience to be able to easily follow the whole run. And it takes too much time with long courses and more complex cone admin.
But I don't see the problem for the audience because they should only be invited for the finishing main spectable anyway. And the main spectacle should be max 2 hours long including price cermoney.

Example counting 3 min/race including dead time...

Top 4 Am head to head (8 races=24 min) (Semi, 3:rd place, Final)
Final Jun (2 races=6 min)
Final Wom (2 races=6 min)
Top 8 Pro head to head (16 races=48 min) (Quarter, Semi, 3:rd place, Final)
Top 3 Price cermony Jun, Am, Wom, Pro (4x6=24 min)
_________________________
Total 108 min + 12 min extra dead time included

A two hour spectacle. One could push in the Am, Jun and Women finals in between the Pro final races. All the "boring" qualifications done in the morning. Am show up early 9:00. Then Jun and women 12:00. Pro show up for qualification at 13:00.
Then 15:00-17:00 the main spectable for the audience with all the finals (as above). Neatly put inbetween lunch and dinner. ;-)

Would this ever be possible? With an efficiant event organisation maybe it could one day... and if this is what poeple want. I think an audience sure would like it like that. But maybe racers want more racing for the buck and time spent to come to an event. But looking at other sports this is how it works. Most just would get 2 runs per day and they are done. And happy. I would be. But maybe that is because I'm old and 4 practice runs and 2 event runs is just what a doctor would order for a racer of my age. :-D
So everything is setup around the published time for Audience and Press. In this case 15:00-17:00. It could be 16:00-18:00 also or whatever you think is the prime time.

You just have to be able to run qualification to have...
Top 4 AM
Top 2 Jun
Top 2 Wom
Top 8 Pro
...ready for the main spectacle.

The problem in general is that the AM group can be very big. In this case you could run the AM's according to ranking as many as you may fit into the time frame you have. If you have too many AM riders you will not have time to run all the head to head from the start to be ready in time. So I can see two options here.

1. You just take the top AM riders from the top of qualification directly into the finals.
The rest will continue after the main event. Finish the rest of the qualifications. And finish the head to head "semi finals" for AM place 5- and up.

2. You try and finish top 8 or top 16 from the top of qualification and run head to head until you have your top 4 AMs.
You then take them directly into the Main event AM finals.
The rest will continue after the main event. Finish the rest of the qualifications. And finish the head to head "semi finals" for AM place 5- and up.

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Re: Pros should race first

Post by Richy Carrasco » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:31 am

Thanks Corky ....Pros first! Oi!

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Re: Pros should race first

Post by Hans Koraeus » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:38 pm

Actually it just strikes me that this is exactly what the Alpine slalom riders are doing. Even though for them it is done also because of the course getting worse after a while. So they want to run the better racers first. But it is also perfect for audience/media.

I don't know how they actually set up start order in the first qualification run. Probably they go after the cup standings.
In the second run they go after result in the first run.

The second run start with place 15 and goes down to place 1. This is what I would call the main spectacle. And something they have control over when in starts and how long it will take. Which is necessary for TV. Then after racer with place 1 has finished the top 3 is 99% decided and they have a quick price ceremony for TV and its over. Well at least for TV viewers because now the rest of the racers from 16 and up continues to finish their second run.

It's this principle that I wanted to try and incorporate into our big slalom events also.

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Re: Pros should race first

Post by Marcos Soulsby-Monroy » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:11 pm

As one of the organizers of slalom races, I would not have a problem with letting the Pro's run 1st . . . as long as they stick around to help less experienced racers after that.



Steve Pederson wrote:Does anyone agree that that Pros should race first at the larger races? At MAIN - MAJOR races. If a race doesn't have a Pro section, then Class A can run first - Before Classes B and C.

At the large races with news coverage, the reporters/photographers are usually at the race early in the day. If there's an audience at a race, It's usually in the morning. If Pros ran their qualifying and eliminations first, the news and audience would have a much better chance of seeing some pro racing. I don't think it's like standing all day at an outdoor concert watching a bunch of warm up bands waiting for Led Zeppelin to play last. People just don't stick around at slalom races.

Typically Kids run first, then Women or Masters then AM/Open then Pros last. I've never seen audiences or news crews stick around to watch the pros run last.

Pros tend to be the ones who train/practice and travel to races the most. They should be given priority to encourage them to continue attending races.

Right now, when the Pros run last, Often time runs out. Or the road permit is about to expire. Then the pros don't get practice runs like all the other classes got earlier in the day. Or they have their finals in the dark. - Like this race which used car headlights to light the course. The cone judges were about the only ones left to watch the final brackets.

Image

Here's a good tv report. Good that the young, future racers got coverage, - but no Pros. And this was a World Championship race. You'd think it was a casual kids event from the report. Let's make things easier the news crews - Run Pros earlier.

http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/C ... OttawaHome

Organizers can arrive before racers and make sure the timers are working during the morning practice session. Then run the Pros.

Or set a time --- something like Noon. Start the day running another class. and then at noon. run the Pros no matter how far along the other class is. then everyone knows when the best racing will be.

The Pro class should take less time to run - they hit less cones - and they are faster!.

When extra classes are added with local racers starting at half-way down the hill (at their first ever race) - Let them run last. Let the serious racers who train hard and travel, race first. Thanks!!!!!
As Luck would have it . . .

Image

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Re: Pros should race first

Post by Richy Carrasco » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:34 pm

My Guys will be there, we have racers in all divisions!

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