The winning runs of Kako Max are here

Slalom Skateboarding in Brasil

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Flavio Badenes
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The winning runs of Kako Max are here

Post by Flavio Badenes » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:24 pm


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Post by Flavio Badenes » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:29 pm

Galera falei com muita gente aqui. Todos concordam no mesmo ponto. Este percurso sucks big time. Se voces querem fazer algo a nivel internacional o primeiro passo e fazer um percurso que esteja a altura do slalom do seculo 21, este ai certamente nao esta. O Don da Pavel se ofereceu para dar dicas, mandem um email para ele se voces acham que eu nao estou sendo correto.
Nao vou mais me manifestar sobre este assunto.
Mudem o tipo de percurso. Mudem.
Abraco!
FB

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Post by Jonathan Harms » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:10 pm

Thanks for posting! That's a very interesting course--lots of BIG turns combined with a hybrid wiggle or two. Looks like fun! I'm sure Chicken and Jason Mitchell will be stoked to see what kind of board Kako Max was riding, too.

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Post by Flavio Badenes » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:59 pm

Jonathan Harms wrote:Thanks for posting! That's a very interesting course--lots of BIG turns combined with a hybrid wiggle or two. Looks like fun! I'm sure Chicken and Jason Mitchell will be stoked to see what kind of board Kako Max was riding, too.
Hi Jonathan, Your post comes at a very interresting moment. I was just complaining with my friends in Brazil about the...course :-)
I find it quite a slow one and I also think that the combination of BIG turns with the sort of tight sessions make the course quite an wicked one.

I think I am going to have all the brazilians coming down at me after they have read your posting :-)

Lets see what this will bring.

Please keep on provinding us with your input, this way we can improve the level of slalom skateboarding in Brazil.

I would also like to ask all the other skaters that eventually watch the video to tell us what they think about the course.

Thank you!!!!!
FB

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I like that kind of course.

Post by Pat Chewning » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:39 pm

I like this kind of course. It has big turns, small turns, everything. It looks possible to generate good speed. It is not a "wiggle fest" with cones spraying all over the place.

When will the next race be?

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Post by Flavio Badenes » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:43 pm

Thank you for your input Pat.

We are trying to have another race on November the 20th.
Please keep on checking this forum for more information.

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Post by Jonathan Harms » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:22 pm

OK, then, here's what I think about the course, based on the video. The surface looks nice and smooth, which is good. And it looks like a course where the rider does most of the work, so it is a good test of how well the rider can pump up to speed and maintain that speed around difficult turns.

But I agree with you, it's not particularly steep, so when you do those big turns across the hill, it won't be as fast as if you set something that runs more down the "fall line," i.e. the path that goes straight downhill.

In most of the races lately in the USA, at least the bigger ones, the trend is the opposite of that. They find a pretty steep hill, set a course with few, if any, large offsets, and the rider goes VERY fast and just tries to hang on. Sometimes I think the trend has gone TOO much in that direction. Particularly in GS races, there's been some complaining that the course it too easy, too straight. Even last weekend's world championship courses had very few difficult offsets. They were very fast, but their difficulty lay in wiggling very fast, not in negotiating challenging large turns.

Don't get me wrong: I like all kinds of courses and try to adapt to whatever is set in front of me. And I had a great time at the Worlds. I just think there's a happy medium between the two extremes, neither too straight and blindingly fast nor too widely offset and speed-killing.

If you want to increase the speed of the course while still keeping it challenging for the riders, I'd suggest pulling some of those ultra-wide offsets in a few feet, tightening up the straight cones in between, and also throwing in an occasional offset or two in the sections that have only straight cones.

But don't be TOO hard on the race organizers. It sounds like this was one of the first BIG races in Brazil in quite some time. Make your suggestions, or better yet, set a better course yourself and get some top riders to ride it. Once they have, they will likely lend their support as well.

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:31 am

I second Jonathans every comment. The only thing I would add is that ideally a GS (and hybrid) should be varied, thus, try as much as possible to avoid repetitive sections. The more varied it is the more challenging it'll be. Personally I don't see any need for straight sections in a GS, the only good they do is to vary the rate per second so to say, which of course is good too, but don't waste too much of the hill to it. As your hill was not so steep this may have been the only way to re-generate some speed after those big offsets.

Do keep big offsets, because some of the best experiences in GS is G-forces as you try to make a really difficult turn in high speed.

And what a spot you've got there. That is possibly one of the best places in the world for dual hybrid racing!

It is so cool to see the Brazilian scene developing. Good work!

/Jani

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Post by Kako Max » Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:14 am

Grande Flavio, falei com o Bruno por telefone agora e nós gostaríamos que você continuasse a frente dos assuntos relacionados ao Slalon aqui no Brasil, pois você é nosso procurador ai na Europa, portanto estamos abertos as dicas porque precisamos e queremos evoluir e tenho certeza de que juntos chegaremos a um resultado satisfatório. Por favor transmita ao pessoal daí que queremos ouvi-los e voçê faça a tradução como sempre aconteceu.
Abraço.
Kako Max.
Nota: como faço pra colocar uma foto abaixo do meu nome no forum?

Kako leia o topico AVATAR no Brasil forum
Abraco!

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hm, yummie.

Post by Steve Hinzen » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:28 pm

Hello Braziliens! Thanks for posting this vid and please keep posting your upcoming events!
Great you pulled off such an event. You went for BIG. Big street! Big trophies! If you win one you're in trouble.

But hey, don't you guys have better things to do in Brazil than slalomskateboarding?
I mean you have beaches, waves and all these beautiful..............mmmmmm!

O.k., keep having fun on this and better never ever enter the world of official world record slalom....

Somebody tell me how steep that hill really is, please? Flavio?
I find it very hard to judge from the vid.

Congrats to Kako what a name Max for winning this one!

Thanks to Flavio for translating if needed (and see you in a few days I hope!).
http://www.pavel-skates.com/
raceboards with a soul!

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Post by Sammy Nogueira » Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:54 am

Hello Steve,
Thanks for your words,Us Brazilian we thanked your attention.
You Welcome when come to Brazil,We can go to the beach, to play soccer, to drink cachaça and play a lot of skateboard..
Keep in touch
best wishes
Sammy

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Post by Bruno Brown RIP » Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:29 am

clarifying a little;we set this course a night before the event with 20 or so skaters trying to set different ideas and lot of the top speed skaters from brazil slamming hard on not so makable and easy looking turns...finally after about an hour or so of stressing because the adding of the gate changed it all;we decided to build the course part by part starting with the first tight session and with skaters testing every part..in the video you can't really tell how was the true turn of making the wide distance between the"easy and slow" cones...this takes drawing a big carve line perfectly quickly in your mind in order not to slide or loose speed not only in the first cone but on the other 3 or 4 and when you think you got it here comes another tight section where you speed up;all the skaters agreed and tested the course before aprooving it and i think this is a very important issue in a contest;so everyone was happy with the course;but like i've said before you can only talk with certainty about a place when you skate it because only feeling it you'll be able to tell what to do or not, some cone positions can work only on determined street combinations of width and distance that's not mentioning angle of descent ,gate height and angle ;and that's what makes it iteresting ;every race should be a different race and a different challenge or we'll be skating the same half pipe in japan,china,hawaii,us and europe killind the adaptation factor...

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Post by Juarez Mascarello » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:03 am

Regarding the critics about the course , we would say that this one was much better than the first , and more than this I have to say that we had a lot of fun, and the course was good enough to reward the best skaters that day. The Hill is much better than us.I didn't made the cut,but I can say that among the ten finalists, everyone was slalom oriented, and equipped accordingly.I agree that we could do it better, and we hope we can setup a very nice course at Interlagos F1 Race Course. We accept all sugestions and constructive critics , but we did nothing to be ashamed off.Lets move for the next event.

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Post by Jonathan Harms » Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:13 am

I hope none of you thought I was criticizing the course or the organizers. I wasn't. As Bruno said, it would be boring if all courses were alike. And I'm glad the organizers listened to the riders and tried to set a course that most, if not all, the riders would enjoy.

Brazil is a huge country with lots of skaters. Like Steve (and many others, I'm sure), I would love to go there sometime. And I hope that more Brazilians will be able to participate in races outside Brazil someday soon. Congratulations again on a successful race, and thanks for sharing it on this forum.

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:21 am

Jonathan Harms wrote:I hope none of you thought I was criticizing the course or the organizers. I wasn't.
Me neither. I was just giving some advice (but I'm not an expert!) as to how to achieve (according to my liking) a nice GS course. I like the feeling you get in those long offsets, more of that, but I like varied courses.

Give us more info on what you're doing. It'll have us all dreaming!

/Jani

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Post by Bruno Brown RIP » Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:54 am

Jani and Jonathan;only with exchanging opinions and ideas we'll be able to reach evolution;we apreciate your's as well as all the others input and hope to see all of you guys next year here 'cause the museum event it's sure to happen next year around september and we intend to make 5 or 6 different events all in really good spots;this next one we're planning should happen november 20Th(to be confirmed)in the f1 racetrack and will be an awsome one;i'll keep everyone informed here at the forum...

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Post by Flavio Badenes » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:12 pm

Hi everybody.
I also want to add something:

I do understand Bruno´s point of view regarding the course, I also agree with what was said by the other skaters.

Maybe among everybody else I was the one to get down on my fellow country men regarding the course. My reasons are that I want to see Brazilian slalom moving forward. The latest races in Europe and in the States showed that the trend is to go fast. Skaters are going so fast these days. That is due to technique, equipment and demanding courses.

Would we have set up one of today´s courses 25 years ago people would call us crazy. Set one of today's courses up 25 years from now and they will call it slow. The tendency is to get faster. Regarding Bruno´s analogy with the half-pipes, I entirely disagree with, since the location of the half pipe has absolutely nothing to do with the half pipe, and by this I mean that a half pipe built to the same specifications in Brazil will work exactly the same as one built in Japan and a 4 % hill is a 4 % hill anywhere in the world. Leave the surface type out of it for now.

How would I know the Museu do Ipiranga is about 4%? Well I lived 6 years 500 meters away from that hill. In Europe we race very often on 4% hills so I know as a matter of fact that the course could have been a lot better than that one.

I don´t want at all to put down any of my friends in Brazil. However I do want to pin point that Brazil is new to the scene, we had 2 races so far while Europe and the USA have had hundreds and hundreds in the last 20 years. So I think that although we are a skateboarding nation we are still very new to the sport of slalom skateboarding. The course could have been a lot better. And hey what is wrong with me saying that? What is it? Is it so that we as Brazilians are so fucking great that we can not take any criticism?
I can improve a lot as a slalom skater, and improving will come from listening to people with more experience. Simple, not big deal about it.

Qual e gente?

Are we making a lot progress in a very fast tempo?
YES you guys are doing a GREAT JOB!!!.

Can the quality of the courses be improved?
Definitely YES. And there is nothing to be ashamed of!

Hey my country fellows:

Let´s get our act where our mouth is!! We can do it!

The first step is to improve the courses!! :-)

I love you all
Your brother Flavio

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Post by Flavio Badenes » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:18 pm

Steve it is very similar to the bottom part of the hill Hannover 2007 was held at. Maybe a little bit less steep.

I will be in Essen this weekend, lets discuss the possibilities of going to Brazil?

:-)

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Post by Donald Campbell » Tue Oct 09, 2007 4:16 pm

having seen the video and having also talked to a few friends about my impressions,here comes the lowdown:

the course really sucked.
why?
because it did not generate any flow,only brakes,brakes,brakes.
all that on a 4% hill?
insane
the us and euro guys would find it annyoing to skate such a course.

any kind of course should generate speed,your course is not set to perform.

it really doesn't help when people tell you all is cool and stuff.
take flavios advice or you will get burnt he first time you come to compete against other
countries.
kako max is ok but he's not killing it,he would drown in any other race.

hard words?
maybe
but don't you brasilians think it's better to wake up now than to get lectured by other racers?
this would be too bitter.
if you want to have such aces as burnquist and all the countless street guys which are top notch in the world in slalom,then you have to open your ears now and you have to listen now.

flavio has seen some stuff and you should be glad to have his knowledge you can put to great use.
just ask him about hannover f.e.
walk this way....

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Post by Steve Hinzen » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:44 pm

Steve it is very similar to the bottom part of the hill Hannover 2007 was held at. Maybe a little bit less steep.
Thank you for your info, Flavio.
I will be in Essen this weekend, lets discuss the possibilities of going to Brazil?
Give me time and money and I will go (and get a tan).

Everybody who hasn't been there should be careful about judging the course and the speed involved from watching the video. I don't see KM braking or loosing his flow. Instead I'm wondering how he holds his speed on a 4% slope on these kind of offsets.

Brazilian slalomers, you can feel lucky to have access to such a great road whatever course you chose to ride on it.

I find it very hard to give any input from our side of the atlantic.
Fantasy and diversification is the key to a challenging and sucessful race.
To me it looks like the Brazilians got their act together. I am shure they will be good contenders in no time at all.
I have to say that we had a lot of fun, and the course was good enough to reward the best skaters that day
Mission acomplished.

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Post by Flavio Badenes » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:13 pm

Watch this other video, made during day light, and see why the course sucks and sucks big time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUUSNx6qiUQ

I will not discuss this any further, if you guys there in Brazil want to insist on doing it this way. Do it.

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The course seems to achieve the goals for the race.....

Post by Pat Chewning » Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:30 pm

If I'm not mistaken, the goals of this course were:

A) To re-introduce slalom in Brazil
B) To be skated by all entrants (some who are beginners)
C) To be held in a nice location with spectator exposure

I saw people having fun skating the course. People running slalom who appear not to have run before. Spectators enjoying the show. It appears to have met the goals of the race organizers.

Not every course should aspire to be World Championship caliber in skill and speed. Less challenging courses have their place for introductory races, kids, lower skill levels, etc.

It looks like a reasonable starting point and a fun location with lots of exposure.

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Post by Flavio Badenes » Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:48 am

Juarez apos ler os seus ultimos posts so posso me reservar o direito de deleta-los. Mais uma vez lhe comunico que o intento deste forum e discutir o slalom skate, comentarios como os dos seus ultimo dois posts nao serao mais aceitos.

Estamos prontos a ler seus comentarios em relacao ao esporte. Estes sim sao bem vindos.

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Post by Juarez Mascarello » Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:23 pm

I was not involved with the event, and personally I hated the course, really sucked big time, I was not able to handle the huge offsets.breaking all the time. Was a big challenge to keep up the speed,no matter how hard I tried.I m sure I need to spend more time learning how to slalom this kind of courses.

Kako was OK, but he was not charging the course, due to back pain and a big crash in the training runs.He spent Sunday at the hospital to check his injured left arm.He only managed to win. But we cannot judge him by this video ,he have good skills as you can see is this video, in a blue shirt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVpAaUTt45g

Old guys in silly costumes was also fun.People you don't see for decades appears from who knows where.

But more than anything I have to pay my respect to the huge efforts done by the organizers to handle all the difficulties ,to get sponsors, new asphalt layer from the city mayor, run a night slalom champ.
Good Vibes

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Post by Donald Campbell » Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:37 pm

juarez
my post was in no way meant to disrespect the superb efforts of the brazilian crew.
maybe you reread it again and keep in mind that i sound harsh since i am very direct
in approach.

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Post by Juarez Mascarello » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:33 pm

Donald
I'm kind of direct guy to, and as we get some exposure we know , we will get some feedback about what is going on here. We really appreciate the inputs from other regions, and I'm really sorry if I sound agressive to other fellows.
But dont patronize us , were a bunch of 40's years old dogs, with 3 decades of skate , that are really excited about slalom skateboarding, and we have access to Slalom foruns , videos ,equipment like in ISSA,Silverfish, ...
We are sure we will set up better courses, to avoid annoying the visitors,but after the course is set , and thats the beauty of slalom skatebording, there is no space to judgment, only the clock will define who is killing the place.Faster ,Slow....And always people will disagree... Its human.
The videos posts , done by Flavio and yours sounded more like a prosecutor showing a evidence in a court, to proof his point, and , unfortnatelly he didnt get sattelite images to support (LOL) , instead to promote the event,an this was the point that makes me stand up in behalf of the promoters., after they finished the best slalom contest so far in Brasil.That s not World level, for sure but we are learning fast.
Looking foward to see you here soon!!

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Last edited by Juarez Mascarello on Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Robert Gaisek » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:28 pm

I think you did good!
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Post by Donald Campbell » Thu Oct 11, 2007 5:29 pm

juarez
forget about world level
the brasil crew kicks ass big time
from what i was able to see so far this is insane.
but...flavio wants to do you good so do i,sometimes it sounds harsh.
but being honest is better than avoiding problems.
continue and soon enough the best in the world will also be located in brasil!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by Cat Young » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:16 am

I think the course looked fun AND challenging.

The challenging part is being able to pump hard enough to keep speed throughout the entire course.

I saw smiles on everyone's faces!
That's important!

It's nice every-once-in-awhile to have a "chill" contest.

I have been "instant messaging" with a new slalom friend from Brazil who is STOKED about slalom in Brazil !!

I think that is so cool. I love listening to his enthusiasm about slalom.
He sends me videos faster than I can watch them!

I say, nice job Brazil !

I'm looking forward to seeing more from your country!
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Post by Marcus Rietema » Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:50 am

All I saw were positives in those videos. I saw more spectators and sponsors at that contest than I saw at the Nationals and the Worlds combined! The street was nice and wide with perfect looking pavement. There was a start ramp and even nice barricades lining the entire course for crowd control. I think the rest of the world can learn something from the Brazilians!!!

Sure the course setting wasn't world class but are there any ISSA guidelines to show these guys how to set one? That looked like a nice race! Why don't we give them some proper guidelines, award them "Major" event status for a big race next year and have a bunch of top pros descend on Brazil. I'm sure if a bunch of top slalom skaters went there it would really stoke up the locals and you would see the entire scene explode! That is how we will grow slalom around the world.

Brazil loves skateboarding and the people are among the best in the entire world!
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Post by Márcio Benevides » Fri Oct 12, 2007 4:47 am

Cat Young wrote:I have been "instant messaging" with a new slalom friend from Brazil who is STOKED about slalom in Brazil !!

I think that is so cool. I love listening to his enthusiasm about slalom.
He sends me videos faster than I can watch them!
Hi Cat... It is nice to see you here in Brasil's Forum.
Here is Márcio the guy who sends you more videos than you can watch... Hehehehe!!
I like to see you challenging the courses. You got great style.

Our snakerun is waiting for you. I noticed we loved that place. Come and ride with us...

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