UKSSA withdraw support

[Hans Koraeus]

Michael, in what sense do you think I'm talking down to you? Looking at your avatar might it not be that it is you talking up to me? Sorry, couldn't help that.

As of driving on left or right side it have never stopped me from going to the UK and would never stop me from going to a UK competition. But it sure have stopped me from driving or renting a car over there. If you think I'm mad because it scares the hell out of me driving on the left side you are free to do so but that's how I feel.

Seems strange that Jani has said that you can't parc near Trocadero. I can't think of any place in Paris where you couldn't parc nearby.

About the incident in the race between Chris Hart and Paul Price. Chris Hart is 1.7 cone distance ahead (3.4m) when Harts first cone flies into Price's course. This one passed by Price with no great disturbance. The second cone though hits one of Price's cones in front of him that with no dought did distract him. (This cone did not get counted as cone penalty for Price which of course is correct). Before this second cone he is still 1.7 cones behind. After this incident he is 2.2 cones behind. One could imagine that the 0.5 cone distance added was the effect of the cone disturbance. 0.5 cone distance equals 1m which equals about 0.1 sec. This is not much but since Harts win over Price was only 0.05 sec it could very well have been Price winning if that cone wouldn't have disturbed him. This is something I can sit and calculate in peace and quiet now afterwards but on the competition site it would have been impossible. The general rule used is that you don't rerun just because cones are popping in to your course. If those cones hits one of your own cones you shouldn't have a penalty for them but otherwise it's a part of the game. This time Price was the unlucky one. Next time it might very well be him popping cones into Harts course. I still agree though that there could be times where a rerun could be judged. To do this Paul Price should have entered a written protest according to the rules demanding a rerun.

About the offered fight. Having you Michael shouting and screaming and using faul language against organizers was the reason starting it all, remember. No one would fight you for complaining ever so hard but strong personal insults to any human being could though.

Conclusion: DQ for Stride for unsportive behaviour and with a written protest from Paul Price he could very well have been alowed a rerun. At least if I was in the judge comitee (which I wasn't).

About the Seyffarth incident against Strobel it was no DQ. It should have been a 6 cones penalty. Looking at the video Marcus time was approximatley 10.58 that would have given him a total time of 11.18.

I saw other cases when hitting many cones resulted in DQ instead of a massive cone penalty. I think the way to do in these cases in the future is to always register the time and count cones (when racer continues to race until the end) even if conejudges says it's a DQ. Then it's easy to correct if changed afterwards. But how the cone judge will show both number of cones hit and DQ (red sign) I don't know. Maybe first the red sign and then count cones and show number of cones.

Michael, if you have 29 Pro's which most of them having a very high caliber then many good pro's will only get 2 runs. The Pro field in Paris was one of the tuffest I have ever seen. Many good racers that normally places high had a hard time getting into top 8. I hope your own results doesn't decide weather it's a good race or not.

I think it's great that you have a big scene in UK. I would love to hear more about what is going on over there. Don't be surprised if you see a couple of Swedes showing up at Brands Hatch. The scene in Sweden is growing as well. What looked almost hopeless 2 years ago has turned into something really promising. I think the Swedes showed that very well in Paris. And you know what. There is more to come. Skateboard slalom seems to walk towards a new trend. You can see it on the kids. They think it's really cool. A good sign for the coming years.

About UK deserving some kind of weighting to make points distribution fair. I don't see it as so unfair as you want to picture it. Having 2 Primes is better than you think. Next year UK will certainly have a Main.

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Since there's so many things going on at the race I totally missed what happened with Paul vs Chris, what was it?

I looked in the PDF's to see if I could figure it out myself, and just found out that I DQ'd in my second run against Marus, hmm I remember losing, but not DQ'ing... Funny that, maybe you have a point...

I don't speak french at all, but managed to get some other complaints through when I spoke to Dan Gesmer. I realize I could have used the advantage of speaking swedish with Hans or Jani but didn't.

I think a race in the UK with higher status would be great, perhaps next year? When will Brands be this year is it decided yet? I'll be there if it's not the same date as the Swedish championships or Antibes...!

As far as the ranking system goes, I guess this is something that is not 100% set and could still be changed if many people feel the same way. After all it's there in order to make it more fun to travel and skate. And since no one else have proposed any other system, but merly complained about this, I guess this is what we'll use.

[Michael Stride]

Hans, your ignorance knows no bounds. Also you are sooooooooooooo condescending. (which means 'talking down to us' in case you dont know).

Driving on the right?? Are you mad? Why didnt i drive to Paris...well I asked Jani if I could park near or at the Troc. And was told no. Only to find the Airflow van their all weekend.

Also why would any UK rider want to go to a race where if you point out that a mistake has been made, which Bobby Mandarino, Paul Price, and I did, an 'official' who doesnt skate offers to fight me???? Frankly I'm shocked. Sure I will stand up for whats right, and you screwed up as far as Paul Prices runs against Chris Hart. But to be critisised for pointing out what you'd done and getting a tosser in an orange shirt offering to sort it out in the park is madness.

Likewise when a few competitors were DQ's by an inexperianced conehead I dont expect to be critisised for pointing that out too.

Frankly, if you want good races, go to the US. You wont be held up all day for a short practice session and 2 runs. Its a hell of a long way to go to a European race to be confronted by a tiny amount of runs, and crappy judging.

PLEASE get your head around the fact that the UK deserves some kind of weighting to make the points distribution fair. We have a bigger scene than you realise, and to be honest I cant reccomend to any UK racer that they should travel to a Euro race until you can organise the runs better and get good value from the entry fees, in terms of runs taken. Couple that with the fact that for a similar cost a UK racer can go to a US race then I'll reccomend that UK racers save their money and go stateside. At least then we'll be able to argue in our own language, and not have to put up with a French official muttering under his breath that the English always complain. Trouble is I speak French....and understood the tosser. I wont stand for it at any competition, and I will ALWAYS point out where the system is screwed. NOT correcting mistakes is an insult to racers and in PAul Prices case he had travelled especially from Trinidad...do us the courtesy of getting things right and I might be persuaded that French races are worth going to.

[John Gilmour]

As someone who promoted a race on the East Coast- I thought about what would make people on the West Coast come to travel to the East Coast to race.

Many USA East Coasters as percentage of East Coast racers have gone to the West Coast to participate in West Coast races. We've seen Paul Dunn (gathering 3), Bruce Brewington (July 4th 2002,2003,2004), Jack Smith (DC finale), M. Dong (Da farm 3), Chris Chaput (da farm 1, July 4th 2002, Gathering 1,2) come out to race. In Banked slalom we see much better West Coast representation- but we have found it hard to entice others to come to our races.

Certainly accommodations, airfare, prize money, organization all come into the mix. I think the more welcome the racers are- the more likely they are to come. One European organizer has added airport transfers to the mix- this surely will help increase participation.

I might add we do need a way to coordinate skaters at airports to make this sort of thing much easier.

In regards to the World ranking the points should be a draw. We can see that the UK skaters are concerned about points so likely we can expect other skaters will be concerned as well.

As the ranking system progresses we will be able to better gauge the racers.

In some ski races in the USA the total points value (similar to Main prime basic etc.) of the race is in part determined by the number of people attending and by the rank and skill level of the attendees.

While this ranking system does not take this into account this year- I don't see why this can not be used as the ranking system begins to flesh itself out. This is not without problems as if many high ranking skaters are from the same country and decide to boycott a race it can destroy the points value of the race. Also last minute some racers can attend a race to pump up its value and "shed" points to other team members in the know.



Given the huge geographical distance of California and the UK its a wonder travel occurs at all.

If the European racers want crowds, fanfare, prize money- then if that is not there I don't think they will come. They probably feel they can do steep hill courses during practice on their own.

The 1993 Jeux race- had all costs covered by the Olympic committees - Air, food , hotel, transfers etc. This is excessive. But if lodging were covered (even by UK racers hosting out of town racers) and transfers were covered so that all one would have to do is land at the airport (at a pre determined time)...I would expect much higher participation rates for UK races. Given the low airfares....it would quickly rise to the top of my slalom contest choices if it was no hassle. Certainly I would choose the UK over nearly every USA race requiring air travel if all I had to do was get to the airport.

[Jon Warburton]

bad move hans, you claim to have put me in a corner. too bad, next time we meet i will have to go right through you.

[Hans Koraeus]

Jon, I twist your words as much as you do mine. Twisters both of us we are.

I have nothing against courtesy or returning courtesy. This is normal. But using it to say that if you don't come you don't have the decency to return favors is going too far.

Anyways, I think we now wrestle just for the sake of wrestling. We probably think the same.

Whatever the case, I hope to see you and all the other English racers in Paris. I will meet you all with a smile and no hard feelings. That is my kind of courtesy. I'm now going over to the Paris frequency. Over and out.

[Jon Warburton]

just because all mackerel are fish does not mean all fish are mackerel. i hope you understand the analogy.

i didnt say those things, dont twist my words. how about you reread my post and edit yours.

why should we have to convince anyone to come here, no-one convinces us to travel we just get on with it and i think others should do the same as a common courtesy.
with that kind of attitude its a wonder you can even get out of bed in the morning. or maybe you dont, i dunno. maybe you have slalomers dial you early in the a.m. to give you your plan for the day.

its a well understood fact that slalom disciplines in many sports (ski, waterski, whitewater kayak) attract what some call techheads and others call geeks. i never expected to find the terminally unmotivated though.

i guess the bottom line is that if you dont think us travelling to you is a courtesy,or if you think returning a courtesy is too much to ask then we have different standards.

[Hans Koraeus]

Jon,

Hmmm, so it's harassment to ask a skate friend to come to a competition? Hmm.

And if they come it's beacuse they have the decency to return favors. Hmm.

So people that don't show up have no decency. And of course you can't ask them to come beacuse that would be harrassment. Hmm.

Hmm.

I see. You are cornered. Hmm.

I don't think people spend time and money to go to competition just to be decent to return favors. And even if it was so I think it wouldn't be decent to think that it was just for decency to return favors. You go there with your skate friends to have fun and get some good stories to take home. It's as simple as that for me. And of course if you could get some World Ranking points for the trouble it wouldn't hurt.

[Jon Warburton]

nobody has to call me up and bug me to go to their races. it has never happened. not once. except one race in australia that was invitational. instead i have used my own INITIATIVE and just rocked up to the show. i dont make them all but i do what i can.

nobody should have to harass you all to come here, you should have the decency to return the favours we have shown by travelling to you. i dont think that is asking too much.

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Australia is soooo very offshore that I rarly go there, no matter if they kick my little delicate ass or not.

See ya'll in parish!

[Hans Koraeus]

Jon,

I know it's long fetched and it wasn't intended to be the BEST reason for europeans not going to UK. It was just a funny thought. At least I gave you one. What do you think is the reason?

Here is a quote from myself to Stride I did just recently in another topic.

"... if you want people coming to UK competitions I don't know if "they will get their respective arses whipped" is the best way to go ahead. I would suggest a better way is to call up/e-mail all your skate friends out in Europe and talk to them. Convince them to come and explain how cool it would be if they came. I know for myself if you would have done that with me my summer plans would change and I would certainly convince some of my skate friends to come along. ..."

[Jon Warburton]

im sorry corky but .............driving .................on the wrong side of the road??????????????????????
is that the BEST reason you can give for people not coming here?

if you had said "stuff the UK that Tony Blair is a fekin war criminal" you might have garnered some support, but as it is you give the most pathetic excuse possible.
i do hope you never race in Australia or South Africa because they drive on the left too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hans Koraeus]

Jon,

Same as the Scandinavians say North vs South.
Same as Eastern countries says East vs West.
The map clearly shows this too.

An obvious disadvantage for UK vs rest of Europe though may be the driving. In UK you drive on the left side whilst rest of Europe drives on right side. This makes it much easier for a lot of people to travel by car in their own respective region. Where the disadvantage is, is hard to say. Maybe UK people who travel a lot have learned to handle both since they see this problem all the time. I know people driving on the right side hasn't. I know it scares me to death just riding along in a car in UK.

But London being so offshore I don't know anymore with the Tunnel between England and the Mainland.

[Jon Warburton]

hans,
i'll repeat, mainland vs offshore.
your map clearly shows this.
thanks for your help.

[Hans Koraeus]

John,

I don't know if it would work to mirror forum topics as you say. Sounds complicated. Easier to use the two forums independently. Concerning the two forums (this and ncdsa) someone said very early on that they have two very different styles. Ncdsa is more like a bar and this site is more like a library. They have both their advantages. I use the Swedish forum att the 161 site for local chit chat. That is also using the bar style. I use this site for international contacts and info. Also here things are more topic dependent which is useful somtimes. I have no problem using the two. But using 3 or 4 forums starts to be little bit too much for my taste.

Maybe it can be frustrating that your type of slalom is not represented in other competitions even if I think that frustrating is a little bit to strong. I like flatland slalom. Didn't see much of that the previous season. But I can't force other organizers to do my thing. They will mostly do the main stream thing. That's logical to try and get as many skaters as possible interested. But I also think it's fun when they also add less main stream disciplines like the cross at the worlds in Morro Bay last year.


Jon,

Ok, I see what you mean. It's the people in the Europe world ranking region that is Euro centric. I agree on that from my Swedish perspective. But I can't see how UK thinks so.

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Just for fun I have marked up the four competitions that people have talked about as Mains and Primes in Europe. Circles for Mains (Paris, Grüningen, Köln and Antibes). Rectangles for Primes (2 in UK, Stockholm, Riga). Stockholm and Riga is the only places that doesn't look euro centric to me.


Dan,

The world ranking is not built to be only an accurate reflection of performance. The world ranking is a mix of performance, attendance and travel.


Adam,

Don't worry about me. I have not taken this history very personally since I see right through it. I'm actually more concerned about the image of Chris himself. Trying to start a "terror e-mail campaign" against me on such loose grounds doesn't look very good. Luckily for me though it seems like that the English or any other skater at ncdsa have seen through the fog too.

[Adam Trahan]

i think you will find he DOES speak for the UKSSA though.

Absolutely!

Chris is a talented skateboarder, a slalom skateboard racer who is a keen racer. I've enjoyed watching vids of him at Brands and I have great respect for his abilities. He is absolutely not approaching the "problem" he has identified in an appropriate mannor. In short, he demands apologies from people who have worked hard on taking skateboard slalom to a more respectable level.

It is like Dan says, it is not perfect and the people who are making the WRS will admit it first hand.

It's that bible verse, "...he who is without sin cast the first stone."

I do NOT wish to disgrace him not one bit, but I have no problem making a choice considering what he has written with his "terror e-mail campaign" and "destroying the scheme" is such bullshit. He wrote his words, I did not.

Jon, I appreciate your participation here. I want to read what you have to say, I want to know what people think, I want to see skateboard slalom in the Olympics and on Television with big crowds supporting our sport. I do not want to see a video game where slalomers are dodging "homeless people"

*grin*

Thanks again for your words, I hear what you are saying.

This can all be fixed quite easily.

Apologies are honorable.

I apologize to anyone in the UK if they have not been represented fairly. I have made an open forum for the UK skateboard slalom racers to speak about their treatment if that is what they wish. The UK can "ignore" us and that is cool too, everyone can do as they please but your words here, well, you will be held accountable for them because they are attached to your name.

Have fun racing, that is what matters.

[Jon Warburton]

i think you will find he DOES speak for the UKSSA though.

[Adam Trahan]

As we are not recognised as a slalom series organiser and points system we withdraw all support for this project.

I can see no benefit for a UK or East coast US skater in this system.
I have worked hard on this for a lomg time and our exclusion hurts alot.

I wish any other series well. let this die a death.

Chris

How ridiculous your words seem to me.

I've begged YOU for your participation at this web site so that YOU could "ring the bell" about the organization YOU represent.

I speak for NO ONE except myself here, just me.

YOU were given a forum, you were given the duties as a moderator, the table has an open spot for you and you turn your back on it.

I will remove you from the moderator position at the UKSSA forum but I will NOT remove that forum, I don't believe you speak for everyone there.

Have fun.

As we are not recognised a slalom association and what we do we withdraw all support from this process.

I request that all UKSSA data is withdrawn from this site and we will activity try to distroy the scheme until recognition is paid and an applogy is sent to the second largest slalom series in the world.

[Daniel Gesmer]

Gentlemen -

The new World Ranking is obviously not perfect, and the people who created it would be the first to admit so. Statistical analysis of race results around the world is challenging stuff!

The ranking was a sincere attempt to create a useful tool. There's no conspiracy afoot!

I know that Jani and Corky would like the ranking to be a highly accurate reflection of real performance. So let's try to focus our energies on constructive feedback for improving the system.

Hope to see a lot of you in Paris next weekend!

[Jon Warburton]

hi
i think chris is using the term "eurocentric" in the context of mainland europe as opposed to the offshore islands. in fact i'm certain of it. you can rule the rest of the world out of your considerations.

("eurocentric" is a term the british press often use to describe EC policies not favourable to the UK)

with this in mind many of the points made above would require reviewing.

[John Gilmour]

I do see it a problem if we have different forums. So is it possible to Mirror a thread at both forums?

Basically participants can add to the thread from either the Uk site or the ss site- and it is exactly the same thread on each site.

Like I wrote earlier it can be frustrating if your type of slalom is not represented. Certainly Americans coming to race 1 meter flatland straight slalom in Russia in the 1990's would have been just as frustrated as UK skaters trying to run a loose course.

I think some accommodations would need to be made for Tight UK style courses. Likely since controlled entry speed is important- either a ramp start would have to be abandoned or the ramp would have to be moved way back from the first cone.. (even if the ramp were moved back top skaters might not get the entry speed they want or need to run the course- some sections are easier to run at speed if you have the speed to allow for more body angulation).

I would like Chris to post a few canned courses up (send a PM to WEsley Tucker to get an idea of how to do this- slalomspot.com will host the images for you)....only the course will help us to run through them and have an understanding of the tighter UK slalom- also a suggested gear set up would be good.

I realize that there are likely only a handful of the skilled super TS Uk skaters left- but I would hate to see any of the more interesting skill sets lost.

So I'm really more interested in the UK's formats and inputs. Its a wide cross section of skills out there- from racing Japans condensed slalom to La Costa....it's whatever turns you on.

[Hans Koraeus]

Chris,

I don't think you are fair. You where one of the very few people I sent my early personal e-mails to about the current World Ranking proposal. I think I tried very much to involve you.

My personal e-mail to you recently was to explain that you cannot just decide to put world ranking statuses on your own UK series competitions like you have done by yourself. I thought it was just a simple misunderstanding of how you had interpreted the World Ranking rules of how statuses is to be set and decided. You have apparently taken that as an attack on your UK events. That was of course not my intention. Your events may very well be worth high statuses but it should be discussed openly. That way others can have your opinion and you can get informed of theirs.

I don't know why you where so quick in turning this into a "UK against rest of Europe" thing. I get the feeling it must have been something boiling inside of you already. Maybe you are not over the 80's as much as you thought.

About the European championships it's for me very clear that it shouldn't be Antibes again. Paris, too early. Grüningen, too early. Only Köln left. Unless of course if Brands Hatch take over the Main status from Antibes or Köln. End of August could be a good date for a Euro Championships. Maybe Brands Hatch suddenly then is the Euro Champ and a Major. What a turn-around that would be. All is still possible. Don't throw in the towel just yet. Join the discussion instead.

About UK not using this site. Well if that is indeed true we do have a problem since I have put all World ranking forums here. I just wanted one place to have it all and I did choose this site because it is international and the structure of the forum here is very good. Many are using other local forums as their main forums but hopefully they will look in here and elsewhere now and then also for a broader view of the international slalom scene.

[Chris Linford]

I was not involved in the decisions of the World rankings, although I contributed to the organisation. With this regard and the fact that I was mailed that our events are not applicable we have now withdrawn from the scheme and our events will not count towards rankings.
Unfortunately this will mean that Euro skaters will now find it difficult to get a good ranking. If I was involved maybe this would change.

However the regions are a waste of time, why have them, every event counts and you get rating for each.

If the scheme get revisited I may consider, or who ever runs the UKSSA, joining. Until then you will all suffer.

Stinks of 1980, I though we were over that.

This is the first we have heard of Koln being the euro champoinships. We all planned to go to Nice.

If you do not involve us we are not interested in involving ourselves.

NOTE: UK does not use this site.

Chris

[Hans Koraeus]

John, Antibes will not be the European championships this year since it had it last year. It is Köln this year and this is why Köln seemed logical as having Main status.

I don't know why this idea of UKSSA events being excluded from the World Ranking is being spread around. This is nonsens. I say it again. All events should be included into the World Ranking. No events should be excluded. And even if UKSSA or any other organisation don't like the world ranking project or even say they will work against it doesn't change this. Their events will be included anyway. If there is something about how the World Ranking works that you don't like it's more constructive to try and discuss those problems.

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Of course UKSSA should be in the WRS, everything else is stupid.

Sooooo...

I just wonder when the Brands Hatch event will be run. The calender on this site says june 5-6, and UKSSA says july 28-30. Which one is it? I won't go to Grüningen but still want 4 events, and the way you put it Brands are the shit... Let me know so that if needed the Stockholm event can be moved.

[John Gilmour]

I can't really consider The statuses confered as Eurocentric for a number of reasons.

1. More prime status competitions are confered to the USA (5 total vs 4 for Europe- and if you count Russia for Europe ...well then you may as well count Canada for the USA (no offense Claude, Pierre).
2. More Main status as well are confered to the USA.

So IMHO I don't see how this can be called Eurocentric.

As an East Coast slalomer, I realize that the Eastern USA does not get the same status as the Western USA . I don't have hard numbers for the total number of Western USA slalom skaters vs Eastern USA slalom skaters (though growth in the East has been good) I would say that there are more Western USA slalom skaters- and that the overall total skill level of the pool is greater in the West currently than the East (cough....tight slalom Morro Bay..cough..) so the decision to allot more points for the Western USA conference has a basis.

I would say that it seems that the UK is not the largest slalom region in the Eastern Altantic . IMHO Likely there are more Latvian skaters than UK skaters. BUT the UK likely consumes a lot of kit per capita.

I do believe that Brands should be conferred a Mains status and perhaps for one very important reason. Inexpensive airfares (NYC $98, Dallas $98,) exist to the UK (plus you have train service -chunnel) and based on this alone- economically it becomes a region that is desireable...much in the same way conventions are held in Vegas....Costs are lower. Brands also is an excellent hill (from what I see in photos), has historical significance, and a decent racing surface.

Regarding other statuses- my personal opinions-mostly on second hand information.

- Paris, France, May 29-31st (been there- It should be a main)
- Gruningen, Switzerland, June 20-21st (surface quality, Pitch???, I don't know much about the organization, I do long for the old Hombrechtikon comps ...and would hope a Swiss Main status comp would be of similar or better caliber than Hombrechtikon comps. Which had- good surface, good courses, accommodations provided, excellent organization for the 2nd and 3rd years, lots of spectators. Perhaps Switzerland should save its mains status for another Swiss comp...or be willing to transfer status should another superior contest venue arise.

- Köln, Germany, July 31st-August 1st ( The sheer number of participants makes this a great candidate for Prime status...as we can only hope it becomes larger and will attract highly skilled racers with a large cash purse- I don't know about the pitch surface or organization. As for the top racer skill level of the local racers... even if they aren't there yet... in a few years they will be.


- Antibes, France, September 11-12th (As the current European Championships- this certainly gets Mains status...I would hope that the Location of the European Championships will change from time to time.

Prime
- Brands Hatch, UK June 5-6th (With good skill levels and a great location...should this be upgraded?- What is missing from the mix. Cash purse? Accommodations, organization?)
- Bude and Hayle, UK July 3-4th (I have no info)
- Latvia, autumn? (not confirmed) (Certainly Latvia with its loyal following deserves at the very least high status. (I assume there are still a good sized core group of skaters?)..I would hope in subsequent years they would be upgraded or selected for a European championship and given Mains status for that comp.)
- Stockholm, Sweden Aug 28 (I have no info- but those Swedish women will entice me to fly there even if they aren't conferred "basic" status) Hopefully I can find my own accommodations on the fly.

How much are my opinions worth? Not much since I have only gone to Paris of the existing Eastern Atlantic competitions- I certainly expect disagreement.

Certainly anyone who has attended most of these comps is in a much better position to make a judgement than I am.

One other thing...

The UK slalomers have set a fine example of making the effort to attend competitions... especially -especially - because they are attending competitions featuring courses that are not like the ones they prefer to run. I prefer to look at the UK slalomers as being "good sportsman" in this regard- and this effort should not go unoticed. I do think that they should be able to host an event and that UK style slalom should be included into the points system for one of their Prime or Main status races.

Even as only a spectator I enjoy watching fast technical UK slalom- like what Simon Levene demonstrated at Cambria practice during Morro Bay 2001.

[Glenn S]

Corky,
I was just looking over your list of Major, Mains, and Primes. The UK is listed many times over many other countries.

Main
- Paris, France, May 29-31st
- Gruningen, Switzerland, June 20-21st
- Köln, Germany, July 31st-August 1st
- Antibes, France, September 11-12th

Prime
- Brands Hatch, UK June 5-6th
- Bude and Hayle, UK July 3-4th
- Latvia, autumn? (not confirmed)
- Stockholm, Sweden Aug 28

Basic
- MonacoCone, Germany, April 24th
- Valberg Slalom, France, May 9th
- St Germain slalom and downhill, France, June 19-20th
- Eastbourne, UK, July 25th
- Swedish cup's

Your list seems very fair to ALL the European countries, as many are listed and none overly more than others for what they offer. Is it easier for Europeans to travel within the Mainland over going out to the island? Is this why turnout seems to be better at Mainland events?

There were races in the UK last year that I never heard about till they happened and not much posted after they happened. Were they posted at ncdsa or something? I was pretty sure I looked there but did not see any. Are they listed there now. How do people find out what is happening in the UK? I see much posted about the other Euro events here, but not much about the UK events. Brands Hatch looks like a place that should hold a World Class event. Who from other countries attended Brands Hatch last year besides Dong and Carrasco, and why?

I realize that these decisions are still a work in progress. And that you are very open to discussion on the matter still.

It almost seems that many of the decisions that constitute what should be Major or Primes should be the actually turnout after the fact.

[Hans Koraeus]

Chris,

Who is not recognising you as a slalom series organiser?

I'm not the best man to judge your slalom series since I have not been over there but anyone working for slalom skateboarding and in your case setting up the UKSSA slalom series have my greatest respect.

I think you are over reacting.

This is how it is:
All competitions are included in the World Ranking. We don't exclude anyone. The world have been divided into different regions. Every region has a predefined number of statuses to use. It's up to the skaters and organizers in each region to speak for their cause. For the European region we have the following statuses to give out...
1 Major
3 Mains
4 Primes
Unlimited Basics

There have been 6 competitions in the discussion for Mains in Europe.

May 29 Paris
Jun 05 Brands Hatch
Jun 10 Rimini
Jun 19 Grüningen
Jul 31 Köln
Sep 11 Antibes

Rimini is now cancelled. So far voices have been raised mainly for Paris, Grüningen, Köln and Antibes as Mains before Brands Hatch (and Rimini).

Have a look at the European region forum and make up your own view on the subject.

The way you play your cards is up to you Chris. But I get the feeling you think that the battle is already lost instead of trying to convince people of the good reasons why UK should have a Main competition. I think you have good reasons so let people hear them.

I also don't see the connection between "Is ISSA euro centric?" and the possibility that UK will not have a Main status competition for the world ranking. I don't know why you bring up ISSA at all. ISSA does not exist and function as it did 9 years ago. ISSA is today only a flagship for projects done with an international view rather then a local view. I can only think of three such living projects today that could partly be linked to ISSA and what it stands for, i.e. international slalom skateboarding.

1. This site (stands for international slalom skateboarding)
2. The World Ranking proposal (international slalom ranking)
3. The latest Slalom! #24 magazine (dedicated purely to slalom skateboarding and the international scene surrounding it)

Now you decide if the above points are euro centric or not.

[Chris Linford]

As we are not recognised as a slalom series organiser and points system we withdraw all support for this project.

I can see no benefit for a UK or East coast US skater in this system.
I have worked hard on this for a lomg time and our exclusion hurts alot.

I wish any other series well. let this die a death.

Chris