Alternative Cyber Slalom

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:24 pm

In regards to the Virtual slalom but CMC TK and I did run a format of it in the Boston Common to try and kick it off. There was discussion about a format like this many many years ago- mostly since the slalomers were so separated, not only by driving distances, but some by geographical boundries (Oceans) and others Politically seaprated (the former Iron Curtain)etc.

This format has been going on for a while as there have been flatland competitions with the Parallel slalom format in the past. Often there was slight grade- but in some cases it was flat.

Also the original Parallel slalom format used separate timers for each lane- so the times are comparable for true flatland- though of course the course was not run in each direction- and in most cases ramps were used. Later a common start was adopted so for the sake of comparison...the times became useless- even if a very fast time was posted with a slower start in the other lane.

One thing I hope is that this format will make people experiment with their gear more..in hopes of posting better times.

Henry Julier · Post by **Henry Julier** » Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:01 am

I would call it a sprint, as someone suggested above.

My personal idea is the gauntlet.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 10:45 pm

How about this?

InterNETional Slalom Challenge.

1 m by 50 cm start box with one foot inside the box, unlimited number of pushes, enter any side.
5 m to the first cone.
30 cones straight at 1.7 m center-to-center
mid-Last cone = finish line
Total distance Start-Finish=56m=183.727ft, which is only 5 ft something more then the Cyber Slalom format.

Advantages: 30 cones instead of 25, using the standard distance developed during the brightest slalom years and agreed upon by many countries. Statistically the same amount of space (less then 5% difference) then the current standard course. Ability to use Slalom as opposed to Giant Slalom boards, trucks and wheels.

Metric System, agreed upon the vast majority of countries involved in slalom racing.

Disadvantages: Metric System.
However, it takes the same amount of time to do all the conversions as it took me to type this post.

I think the InterNETional Slalom Challenge is the best title should this discipline be promoted online. Where most of us meet anyway. Bravo, Leo!

If I have time, I’ll give it a go this week and post the results here (I mean up there, in the other CS field)

Vlad.

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:44 pm

Wow Kim,

Thanks for registering and becoming a part of this community. I like the idea of a "standard" that people like us (alone in Arizona) can measure their performance against. Now that the road is clear to go ahead with this idea, we can impliment it into this web site.

Yes, this little spot is a bit more tame than the http://www.ncdsa.com It get's a little ragged around the edges every once and a while like at this topic "The Dark Side of the Cone" and some other spots here and there. What you will find is a lot less "party" and a bit more content. I like a party too, not all the time.

So, please do continue to be a part of "us" and let us know how you are coming along. Use the [Search] feature for specifics.

Anyway, best regards to you and I hope to see you at the next FCR event.

adam

On 2003-02-28 10:31, Kim Gould wrote:
Total newbie here. I would love to participate in this forum. It allows for a practice exercise with feedback coming from other people's times. While I love to watch GS, it'll be a long time before I waste everyone else's time with me competing in one. This way I can "compete" and only have the world hear about the good parts - great confidence builder for us newbies. By the way, slalomskateboarder.com is a wonderful site and much more newbie friendly than the other brand. Thanks to EVERYONE involved!!

Pierre Gravel · Post by **Pierre Gravel** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 8:03 pm

Or call it:
Virtual Racing

Slappy Maxwell · Post by **Slappy Maxwell** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 7:49 pm

why not call it what it really is?

A slalom sprint.

Even 100 cone distances would be considered a sprint in track and field.

Kim Gould · Post by **Kim Gould** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:31 pm

Total newbie here. I would love to participate in this forum. It allows for a practice exercise with feedback coming from other people's times. While I love to watch GS, it'll be a long time before I waste everyone else's time with me competing in one. This way I can "compete" and only have the world hear about the good parts - great confidence builder for us newbies. By the way, slalomskateboarder.com is a wonderful site and much more newbie friendly than the other brand. Thanks to EVERYONE involved!!

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:51 pm

Hold on please.

Try not to make more work for me than is necessary.

Let me build the forum first.

I want a couple of things before this is going to happen.

1. I want to know what you guys are going to call this FIRST. I need a name for the FORUM and I want to know as much about this as possible.

[Please PM your discussions to me. Private Messages are easier for me to draw information from and reference to in regards to site request]

2. I need the set of measurements (course description) and a draft of the "rules" that you are going forth with. The METRIC measurements are an excellent idea and I will make this forum based on this presentation. I did not think there was going to be the interest BUT, the METRIC measurements go along with our international theme. This alone will make the grade.

3. I would only ask that you guys support this if we are going to make one here.

I am surprised. I thought this was going to fade away...

adam

Neil Gendzwill · Post by **Neil Gendzwill** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:41 pm

When we discussed it originally, the 50-cone course was ditched for the simple reason that nobody but me had access to that much flat asphalt. I live in the Canadian prairies, it's really flat here. Everyone else was reduced to finding tennis courts or other artificially flat surfaces. So the course was reduced to 25 cones and the pushing zone was shortened up as well.

Gareth Roe · Post by **Gareth Roe** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:16 am

I propose we set something up exactly as what Neil G. suggested back in 2000. Metric measurements and all! (See above posts)

We will try and set up this "Virtual Slalom Course" this weekend if the weather permits and start posting some times right here! What do you think Michael?

I suggest anyone else who wants to do it give it a try! It sure helps with the pump and is a great workout.

Later-
Gareh

Claude Regnier · Post by **Claude Regnier** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:02 am

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 10:39 pm

I only have two things to say:

and

, people!
Where's Gilli?

Neil Gendzwill · Post by **Neil Gendzwill** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:19 pm

Adam, I don't feel any particular ownership of the idea, just wanted to set the history straight. If you want to run any variation of it that you like, go ahead. Personally I think the original flat course of 25 cones should be left at ncdsa, as there is already a mechanism for posting times and a history there. If you want to do a similar honour system competition with a different format, I think that would be a fine idea.

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:12 pm

Questions:

1. Do I have the owner of the idea's permission?

2. Should I do this?

3. Can I get a show of hands?

4. Is there interest?

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:39 pm

Finding the person who -officially, online- came up with the idea is the easy part. His name appears in this sentace: “Credit goes to Neil G, who as near as we can tell was the first to propose this idea on ncdsa.com way back on Sept 11, 2000. Neil's First Annual World Wide Web Slalom Challenge eventually morphed into the Cyber Slalom Challenge, but the idea is essentially the same. “

The hard/er part is coming up with an idea that will further promote cyber racing.

Andy Bittner · Post by **Andy Bittner** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:11 pm

That's the way I remember it.

Neil Gendzwill · Post by **Neil Gendzwill** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 6:35 pm

Actually unless John was talking about it before I did, I first proposed the idea in September, 2000. Mainly because there isn't another slalomer within 600 km of me.

On 9/11/2000 Neil G wrote in from 198.169.xxx.xxx:
All this talk has my competitive juices up. Unfortunately, there's no one to compete against here. Soooo.... I propose the First Annual World Wide Web slalom challenge.

Set up a course as follows: on completely flat smooth asphalt, 50 cones in a straight line at 2 meter spacing, start line 5 meters before the 1st cone, finish line 5 meters after the last cone. Rules are: standing start, front wheels and push foot behind the line at the start, one push allowed behind the line, as many pushes as you like between the start line and the first cone. Timed from when the starter says "go" until the front wheels hit the finish line.

Submit your best clean (no cones touched) time to this forum. Let us know what equipment you were running, too, as we're all pretty much equipment junkies. Honour system in effect. In all likelihood the times will be too close to counter all the variables, but it should be fun just to see what shakes out.

Neil

PS I used metric as this is an international forum. For you Americans, 2 meters is 6'7", 5 meters is 16'5"

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:53 pm

Adam,

Here's a lil idea that could be implemented-into/modified/used/whatever with the existing forum format.

Forum Forum title, like "Discipline": "Flatland Standard Slalom at 6 ft." Or/and "Flatland Standard Slalom at 5.5 ft.", or/and "Flatland Standard Slalom at 6 ft with .5 ft offsets".

Topic: Names with the best times. The times (and the names for that matter) could be edited anytime. Times should be posted fist, followed by the names, so that it's easy to compare the times with each other (same position in the column).
Have one topic in which the very first post explains the rules and the following posts argue/question/fight/find loopholes in the rules

Posts: Here a person could share his stories on how he posted his time, on what surface, under what conditions, share set-up secrets with the community, and answer questions. So, there is going to be many "individual" sub-forums, with the discussions, questions, and answers. These sub-forums will have a natural tendency to be "clean", because only the interested parties will ask questions and (possibly) get some answers.
_______________________________________

And because we're allowed to disagree with Adam T. -since he's nothing but a member of this community and stuff- I disagree with you, Adam! Don't underestimate your role and impact, dude! There are "idea generators", and there "doers". It takes two to…I forgot…rap, tap dance, sing (?)
_____________________________________

I wish CMC is back on the board soon. He's made quite an impact on both- the East Coast alpine AND slalom world. Not too many people visit the NCDSA archives, but I think CMC has been a part of the online slalom scene since 1999 (or 8?) along with JG, before the separate slalom forum even excised on that site. Oh, and those two were bugging everyone on an alpine board to get into slalom for cross training. For years. They still do.

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 5:46 pm

On 2003-02-24 21:20, Michael Dong wrote:

-snipped for brievity-

Adam, thank you for putting the massive time and effort to implement and maintain slalomskateboarder.com. I can only imagine the time involved.

Michael and others:

I appreciate that you are thanking me, really I do. Just let me be a part of this group and no more thanks are necessary. I simply want to be a part of the community and blend in. No birthday shtuff or anything else. If you dis-agree with me, that's cool too. Simply put, I want the same status as any user here. If I need to take editorial liberty, I promise, everyone will know about it before hand and know how to treat it as such.

Now, let's get down to it. I think this is a good idea. http://www.slalomskateboarder.com would not exist without John Gilmour. He is a part of the recipe. His involvement with my slalom interest over the years has helped me generate this site along with Jani Soderhall and Lillis and many others.

From John Gilmour: Actually if you go way back in NCDSA.com history you'll see that the first virtual slalom course was discussed with myself and CMC. We set the first on in the Boston Common and later we went to the tennis court format. I tried a moving crow hop start for one of the runs- not the single push start.

Virtual slalom isn't trademarked AFAIK-

We originally were discussing how people could compete without "gathering" - a High School Swim team in Hawaii has most of its meets in a virtual format.

From CMC

On 11/7/2000 cmc wrote in from 172.155.xxx.xxx:
The starting line was 10 feet from the center of the first cone. Using that starting line a box was chalked 3 ft back given us a chalked 2'x3ft box. The course must be started with the board inside of the chalked box. John's time was done with a running crow hop onto the board which remained in the 'box.' Prior to that we had done a one push start only from within the box and no further touch down of the feet. We literally only ran this "virtual course" about twice each before the police asked us nicely to leave. I actuallty forgot Terence and my times but the time to beat for now is John's. Hopefully we can get together to have a better run at it without getting the boot. While Terence and I set the course up John stated that he had to go get a bite to eat. He was full of shi*. He was hiding behind the brick wall drinking a can of whoop ass! Because of the little time and the big boot, no video was taken of the virtual course. But I will post clips from the longer courses we set up in a different spot which were sweet. I just have to back to Vermont to my computer. I will also post the exact course settings in a day as my notes are elsewhere. The stop watch was stopped as soon as the last cone was reached or the last cone which was the 25th was the finish line/time stop,nose of the board. I will also post pictures of Silverado's downhill Turner. According to Bobby, it was the only one of its kind ever made and is a real gem! Will post clips tommorrow.

From Me

On 11/8/2000 John Gilmour wrote in from 63.214.xxx.xxx:
CMC's last post is the accurate one.

I agree it will only get a ball park figure. We could ship a line to line timing system...etc... but still competition really should be head to head. One interesting note. University of Hawaii has swim meets which are always with other schools in a virtual format. They only get one run.

Real competitions involve pressure, which does not exist for this virtual format. I think the best use of this format is to give people a ball park figure of where they are now and what is possible.

So if you trace the posts before this one- you'll figure out the concept-

It's 22 degrees out- I ain't slaloming.

But when it warms up- I might make a canned course with offsets to run in virtual format.

--------------------

Should we make a Forum or something here at http://www.slalomskateboarder.com for a "virtual or cyber" slalom time report baseline standard?

Phew!

Tell us what you want.

We will try to make it happen.

Brady Mitchell · Post by **Brady Mitchell** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 5:07 am

Two valid points were brought up here...

The confusing name, and Adam`s statement about not infringing on what`s already been done (ncdsa cyber challenge)

Possible name change.... "Street Standard Slalom" The "Street" is already used for new skool skating on the flats, why not use that name and draw in some younger blood.

As for something differant from ncdsa`s thing, and to draw young bloods into it, why not go 7' on center so the newschoolers might have a chance at posting a time? Cone count differant too. And unlimited push as well?

Glenn S · Post by **Glenn S** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:41 am

I like the idea of having other challenges too.

How about something like this:

Slalomskateboarder 6'straight Challenge
Slalomskateboarder 5.5' straight Challenge
Slalomskateboarder 100 cone Challenge
Slalomskateboarder TS flat course Challenge

Or if you don't want to call it a "Challenge", call it a "Showdown" or "Shootout" or something like that.

What I'm getting at is breaking the 6' mold, or JUST having a 6' challenge.

I hear people saying the they can pump 20mph on flat. What kind of courses and gear would let you do that?

I also think that maybe a flat TS course with features like offsets and stuff ought to be included that is ran both ways.

But I'd also like to see tighter 5.5 like Vlad suggests.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 3:34 am

Why not the "Standard Slalom Challenge?"
Not dorky, gay, confusing or misleading.

Michael Dong · Post by **Michael Dong** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 3:20 am

I agree, "cyberslalom" is a great idea for many reasons. Here are just some random thoughts on possible improvements or modifications.

1. First off, the name is very confusing for people to understand. When I mention the name and begin explaining, they get it in their heads that you are not really skating, thinking it is some video game put out to run on Xbox or some armchair thing like fantasy football. What we are really doing is "remote" slalom on compulsory courses, where people in different locations can race each other on similar courses even though they live in different parts of the world. Remoteslalom sounds dorky and Compulsory Slalom sounds gay. Can't think of a good name yet. It is indeed flatland slalom - maybe "flatland challenge" or something more appealing.

2. After Vlad posted the idea of a 5.5 straight, tight flatland course, I was thinking this was really cool to mix it up a bit. Now I'm thinking, why not have a set of basic courses like straight 6ft centers, straight 5.5ft center, 6ft centers with 6" offsets, 7ft centers with 9" offsets, etc... These times could be entered by a racer and kept at a designated website by some fine individual. http://www.flatlandslalom.com?

3. Why flat? This will eliminate the need for having everyone racing on the same slope (impossible). It makes a relatively uniform venue for everyone and it is always possible to find a decently flat spot to run on.

4. Now you can take if a step further and have a different course setter (from a different country each time lets say) provide a course that would stay up for maybe every 3 months or so. These courses could be fully described with distances and offset so that a racer in any location could set it. They would be easy to refer to - "The Swedish 2003 course", "The Argentinian 2005 course", etc...

5. Course length? I think that the cyberslalom setup is about ideal for length. Any shorter and its over too soon. Any longer and it would be to difficult for everyone to find a long enough venue.

6. Push length? I think it should be a minimum of 15ft or only a VERY few people will continue to run it. People already get really frustrated with the 15 ft push start. If it is a similar push distance for each course, racers wouldn't need to practice the push start for different distances, and the start would be less and less frustrating as they practiced more and more.

7. If there are any non-flat push-start races, a racer practicing these courses will be more than up to the task. All of this flatland stuff will develop pumping power needed to run fast downhill slalom or gs courses.

8. The possibilities are wonderful for promoting and running slalom, and thats what this is all about.

9. Adam, thank you for putting the massive time and effort to implement and maintain slalomskateboarder.com. I can only imagine the time involved.

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:22 am

The http://www.ncdsa.com cyber slalom is just that.

I am unable to actually promote it here due to said reasons.

Would there be a movement for a http://www.slalomskateboarder.com honor system timed slalom event? I thought adopting the 100 cone challenge would be a good idea. Not quite as quick and easy to set up, but no less a good idea.

I don't want to "start" something that is trivial or not needed.

What do you guys think?

No slalom war.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 10:20 pm

“Is there any revisions and or a different format or something of that nature that we here at the site could adopt and or promote? Do you have any ideas?”

Adam,
I’m actually PRO adding a different running format to the existing one. I had a 5.5ft on flat idea a while back. I guess you’re asking for a different thing. Sorry.
Vlad.

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 10:03 pm

Link to the Seattle Cyber Slalom Post by Michael Dong

What is the post here?
Is it a simple statement?
I am curious?

On 2003-02-24 15:49, Vlad Popov wrote:
I just read Adam T’s post in the Seattle Cyber Slalom forum.

Cyber Slalom is a GS on flat. It requires 19-21 inch wheelbase boards and GS wheels.

“Virtual Slalom” at 5.5 ft is another alternative. Hopefully, Cambrias and 18-inch (and under) wheelbase boards can be used for that one. Make start box 3 feet, 5 ft before the first cone and 5 ft after, call it “Virtual Slalom” or whatever, and hope there is no issue with that.

I might start running this thing soon along with the standard CS format. Like Michael said, it’s a great pumping exercise.

Vlad.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Mon Feb 24, 2003 9:49 pm

I just read Adam T’s post in the Seattle Cyber Slalom forum.

Cyber Slalom is a GS on flat. It requires 19-21 inch wheelbase boards and GS wheels.

“Virtual Slalom” at 5.5 ft is another alternative. Hopefully, Cambrias and 18-inch (and under) wheelbase boards can be used for that one. Make start box 3 feet, 5 ft before the first cone and 5 ft after, call it “Virtual Slalom” or whatever, and hope there is no issue with that.

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