Photo needed for cover of ISSA rulebook

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:00 am

Hans Koraeus wrote:Skating has nothing to do with rules.

Rules are only for competitions where you want to select a winner.

In my rules the winner is the one having most fun.

Not fair...in that case Mig would win every time.

Martin Drayton · Post by **Martin Drayton** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:26 pm

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2158/191 ... 31aa_o.jpg

Marcos Soulsby-Monroy · Post by **Marcos Soulsby-Monroy** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:45 pm

Heres some

Ramón Königshausen · Post by **Ramón Königshausen** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:23 pm

"First rule of Fight Club is nobody talks about Fight Club."

Ehm, sorry...

First rule of Slalomskateboardracing is...damn...what's the first rule?

Now seriously. How about a sign saying something like "Skateboarding Restriction" instead of/according to "Skateboarding prohibited"?

rmn

Cat Young · Post by **Cat Young** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:10 pm

Here's my choice.....

Nobody wants to EVER see this one:

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:09 pm

The cover picture should be Kenny slalom skating naked.

That way there will be no question as to the need for rules.

Jonathan Harms · Post by **Jonathan Harms** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:54 pm

I vote for the photo of Julie or the last one of Louis--both are simple, clear and dynamic and striking.

Ramón Königshausen · Post by **Ramón Königshausen** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:30 pm

Looking at all those magnificent photographs I've come to think about writing some sort of "Sport Portfolio" for the public where we can "sell" our sport to the sponsors/public...

Just my spontaneous idea...
...keep it up!

rmn

Vincent Berruchon · Post by **Vincent Berruchon** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:41 pm

This one show a race, that's what we want to deal with isn't it?
Would need more public but something like that would be explicit, no?

by Motz, official RIDERZ.net photographer

Eric Brammer · Post by **Eric Brammer** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:19 am

It's not that Skateboarding and 'rules' are incompatible (though they Are disseperate concepts!).... It's really about whether these 'Rules' come from a sense of fair play, on an uneven playing field.

Skateboarding may indeed break rules (old, bad habit, but one that's kept it and it's participants, - Young!).

The creative edge comes from finding a format of contestance that allows skaters to, for the moment, on that day, Race Day, conform to a few, simple, rules to see who's got it figured out best. Form follows Function in machines we ride, even in biomechanics, until Talent and Willpower take over and blow minds!

:-o

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:00 am

Skating has nothing to do with rules.

Rules are only for competitions where you want to select a winner.

In my rules the winner is the one having most fun. The problem is though it's quite hard measuring fun...

But the "fun rule" is more used than any other rule in skateboarding.

Miguel Marco · Post by **Miguel Marco** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:23 pm

Erik, rules are boring so might as well make the cover fun to make you pick it up...

I know we absolutly need the rules for racing (particularly the bigger races) but there's some kind of alarm that goes off in the back of my head everytime I hear the words "rules" and "skateboarding" in the same sentence. That freedom feeling and the lack of rules is what kept me skating all these years...

Erik Basil · Post by **Erik Basil** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:45 pm

Heh heh heh! You guys oughta figure what the cover photo on a rules book is selling. There are some really nice photos in here...

HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric · Post by **HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:17 am

Very nice shots Mig, especially the black and white one !

A few shots from our last "pirate race" by Benoit Mothes...

Miguel Marco · Post by **Miguel Marco** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:42 am

Jason is definitely more than worthy, but just in case here are more choices.
Even if there not World Champs, the pics are good and they show good style.
Pics are by Boris Firquet. I'm sure he wouldn't mind one being used.

By the way, company logos can be photoshopped out. And they should...

HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric · Post by **HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:57 pm

Dan Parrish wrote:

This is a shot from Jason Innes during Colorado US Nationals !

Stephen Lavin · Post by **Stephen Lavin** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:36 pm

that RacerX shot looks like a Farid from Colorado (Seismic Nats) ...

LAVIN

Erik Basil · Post by **Erik Basil** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:27 am

If you want one of Jason coming around a cone like that, we've got a few in our Pump Station galleries. Pick one and it's yours to use.

Pat Chewning · Post by **Pat Chewning** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:31 am

Dan Parrish wrote:

That is a cool pic. If the owner/photographer would send me a JPEG then I could use it. I don't think it would be proper to just take the cover from CW and paste it onto the rulebook .....

Dan Parrish · Post by **Dan Parrish** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:28 am

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:17 am

That's great, Erik.

Erik Basil · Post by **Erik Basil** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:04 am

Okay, hijacking aside, I'll offer this one. I can convert it to a line-drawing, too.

Marion Karr · Post by **Marion Karr** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:28 pm

Donald Campbell wrote:maybe some things(take the pic as an example)should just be done without the neverending discussions.
it is good to have democracy but sometimes things just need to be done without all the discussions-a waste of time

I agree completely.......sorry to add to it...just addressing the comments.

I also agree it should be Henrik and Mitch....

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:54 pm

Donald Campbell wrote: take henrik for europe and mitch for usa
next year some others
good stuff
end of dsicussion

HEAR HEAR!!

Donald Campbell · Post by **Donald Campbell** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:58 pm

i know

sorry to piss folks off,but this discussion was not about the use of rulebooks

good call on jason
maybe a split page is cool too
take henrik for europe and mitch for usa

next year some others

good stuff
end of dsicussion

pat-if you don't get pics e-mail me and i will send you some

Pat Chewning · Post by **Pat Chewning** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:41 pm

Donald Campbell wrote:maybe some things(take the pic as an example)should just be done without the neverending discussions.
it is good to have democracy but sometimes things just need to be done without all the discussions-a waste of time

Yes. My intent was not to discuss this, but just a plea for people to submit some pics and then I would choose one.

Donald Campbell · Post by **Donald Campbell** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:39 pm

maybe some things(take the pic as an example)should just be done without the neverending discussions.
it is good to have democracy but sometimes things just need to be done without all the discussions-a waste of time

Lenny Poage · Post by **Lenny Poage** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:00 pm

Hans Koraeus wrote:
http://i6.tinypic.com/7xnpll1.jpg
And if still peoepl want a picture on the front cover let's take the no 1 pro racer on the ISSA World Ranking. Wouldn't that be something?

I tend to agree with this.

Claude Regnier · Post by **Claude Regnier** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:53 pm

The cone books are still the best system for everyone. Long courses and blind corners do hinder this method. Some people simply don't want to be bothered. In some cases like Marion stated, they didn't think they were ready to handle it. You can't fault them for that.
They did a great job all the way around.

Any system will have it's faults.

The key is to have one Key person at the Top and Bottom of the course. Coneheads need to be knowledgeabe and comited to doing a good job.

This topic (not the one it's supposed to be) has been covered with all the arguments. Race promoters need to pick what they want d make sure CONE COUNTS are done correctly.

In a perfect world the books would be used at every race with lots of cone heads and support staff to make sure there are no errors.

Some things did improve this season and some things got worse.

The photo idea is a good one. Several photo's or drawings depicting several aspects of the rules is a good idea to included in the manual as well.

Remember we do want someone that knows nothing about it to be pick up a copy and be able to run an event with some support.

The ISSA guide should be complete in every way possible for anyone to use. The ISSA's responsibility will be to ensure the rules and guidelines are followed.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:17 pm

Well, to continue hijacking Pat's thread . . .

There is an issue with the signs for cone heading. Mainly two cone marshalls both put up a "3" when only five cones were knocked down.

I think it's physically impossible for two people to hold up the same cone and it get counted twice but it's a very real possibility when counting what's laying around on the ground.

Now, theoretically this problem is eliminated because course marshalls have specified "zones" where they only monitor very specific cones. They are not supposed to count cones but they are supposed to count chalk circles and judge displacements and criddles. Then once the tally is counted it's transmitted to the top of the hill.

I think, though, my scenario just outlined possible problems with the system: two coneheads transmitting the same cone twice, cones replaced before the chalk "hole" is counted, a cone is counted and then it's chalk hole is counted and other foibles likely to happen in the heat of a fast, repetitive racing situations.

This isn't to say holding up cones ane counting is flawless, but this method also has its pitfalls.

Ramón Königshausen · Post by **Ramón Königshausen** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:09 pm

Hans Koraeus wrote: Ramòn, I don't want to believe that you really mean that such a system is good, that one might think that you really meant. You say flawless, hmm. I have more trust in Jani's observation which fits more into my own experience. And even if it was flawless it would have been no more than a stroke of luck than anything else.

Huh well, with flawless I meant I couldn't detect any issues on that. Have there been any?

But I understand what you mean, it looks rather inprovised than organized but some people do better inprovising than organizing...

rmn

Marion Karr · Post by **Marion Karr** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:32 pm

Rick Floyd wrote:He's showing DQ.

Claude had a great system at Dovercourt this year. Each cone marshall had a large "notebook" style pad with BIG black numbers on a white background. There were also a totally RED page and a totally GREEN page. The numbers were for number of cones hit in that marshall's section, so the officials at the top just had to add up the numbers on each course. If a marshall's section was clean they held up the green page, if they had a DQ they held up the red page. Easy to see and easy to count!

By the way Rick, we have copied MB's Card System but felt that we did not have enough experience using it during the Worlds. We will be working with it some this year in preparation of next years races. Our cards were the one's used at the US Nationals in August. (Gary Saenz put our cards together..thanks Gary).

Marion Karr · Post by **Marion Karr** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:29 pm

Been away from the forum for a few days and what happens? Ha ha...TWAY, that dude is a scary looking so and so....that might scare people from the sport all together!!!

Jani :By the way, Yes, thats how we signal a DQ. And yes, there were times when the number of cones were high especially in the TIGHT and we appreciated everyone's help. But, the course was WAY TO LOOSE at the bottom if I remember correctly.....funny how there were so many cones to count being that it was that loose....

Ramon: Thanks for the props....Mr. Surly (manned the top), Mark Nix (covered the bottom), Jay Mishoe (oversall the middle), and Brent Griffith (assisted the Timer) are our go-to guys for course marshalling.

William Tway · Post by **William Tway** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:12 pm

Pat Chewning · Post by **Pat Chewning** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:48 am

Wow, when you guys highjack a thread, you really do a good job!

All I wanted was a cool pic to put on the rulebook, and there have been 12 posts about everything EXCEPT cool pics of slaloming. Thank you Rick Floyd, you post ACTUALLY CONTAINS A LINK TO COOL PICS!

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:23 am

Rick, that is exactly the way to go. Claude has propably taken that with him from his European adventures.

Ramòn, I don't want to believe that you really mean that such a system is good, that one might think that you really meant. You say flawless, hmm. I have more trust in Jani's observation which fits more into my own experience. And even if it was flawless it would have been no more than a stroke of luck than anything else.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:45 pm

Erik Basil wrote:All I can think of is a nice shot of Ron Barbagallo racing in a kilt.

It's ruLe

Not ruDe.

Erik Basil · Post by **Erik Basil** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:28 pm

All I can think of is a nice shot of Ron Barbagallo racing in a kilt.

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:05 pm

He's showing DQ.

Claude had a great system at Dovercourt this year. Each cone marshall had a large "notebook" style pad with BIG black numbers on a white background. There were also a totally RED page and a totally GREEN page. The numbers were for number of cones hit in that marshall's section, so the officials at the top just had to add up the numbers on each course. If a marshall's section was clean they held up the green page, if they had a DQ they held up the red page. Easy to see and easy to count!

Jani Soderhall · Post by **Jani Soderhall** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:16 pm

Ramón Königshausen wrote:If I'm not mistaken, the cone counting at this year's World Championships was done like this and it worked flawlessly.

I think it did, and only thanks to a very experienced racer/cone counter up at the top.

But I'd say it was kind of risky. And I don't feel completely safe (anyway, you can never be) that it was all handled correctly. At some times the cone marshals didn't have enough hands to hold up all the cones the had to deal with. It also required a good eye to count the masses of cones that fell down at the bottom in some runs. And quite often other people than the cone marshals held up cones too. Including me, every now and then, as we all tried to help out. It worked, but No, it's not the way I think it should be done.

And by the way, what is he actually showing? No cones? DQ? Track closed?

/Jani

Ramón Königshausen · Post by **Ramón Königshausen** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:12 pm

Hans Koraeus wrote:
http://i6.tinypic.com/7xnpll1.jpg
I would say it would be a good picture in the section of how not to handle cone counting at an ISSA event...

If I'm not mistaken, the cone counting at this year's World Championships was done like this and it worked flawlessly.

rmn

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:39 am

http://i6.tinypic.com/7xnpll1.jpg

I would say it would be a good picture in the section of how not to handle cone counting at an ISSA event...

But I guess the best is having no pics at all unless they are to clarify a rule or something. Rule books are supposed to be boring. No?

And if still peoepl want a picture on the front cover let's take the no 1 pro racer on the ISSA World Ranking. Wouldn't that be something?

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:43 pm

You guys have books?? Wow. No wonder y'all are so dang smart!

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:30 pm

Rick Floyd wrote:
William Tway wrote:http://i6.tinypic.com/7xnpll1.jpg
Perfect!!

That's the kind of look that gets books banned in Boston.

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:14 pm

William Tway wrote:http://i6.tinypic.com/7xnpll1.jpg

Perfect!!

William Tway · Post by **William Tway** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:20 pm

Pat Chewning · Post by **Pat Chewning** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:18 am

ISSA logo and text , official stuff -- YES.

Picture of skateboarder -- why not?

Maybe the entire rules should be in pictures/cartoons -- so that everyone can understand them

Jani Soderhall · Post by **Jani Soderhall** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:54 am

How about an ISSA logo and the words "ISSA RULES" (and some official stuff such as dates of last revision)? I see no need for a photo on this document.

/Jani

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:59 am

Pat - let me know if you could use any of my shots from...

The 2007 Worlds: http://cloudtenweb.com/events/worlds200 ... eshow.html

or Dovercourt 2007: http://cloudtenweb.com/events/dco/dco_index.html

Good luck completing the rule book!

Thanks for all you do for our sport!

-RF

Pat Chewning · Post by **Pat Chewning** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:09 am

In anticipation of actually being finished some day with the ISSA rule book, I would like photographers to submit a photo for the cover.

There is no prize and no method, voting, or rules to this. Submit a photo that YOU OWN and if it is chosen, it will be printed on the cover of the ISSA rule book.

Submit a link to the photo into this forum topic. When one photo is chosen I may ask the photographer to then send me a full-size file.

Thank you....

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