Racing and MAYBE getting HURT in Europe

Jon Warburton · Post by **Jon Warburton** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 4:25 pm

hi all
just copied this from a standard travel policy im using. racers should be aware that they may not be covered under a standard travel policy.
"MONDIAL ASSISTANCE
Certain exclusions and conditions apply to the policy in respect of hazardous and sporting activities.

The policy excludes:
any professional sporting activity or any kind of racing (except on foot).
wintersports, unless you have selected winter sports cover and have paid the appropriate extra premium. In no event, however, is cover granted in respect of ski, snowboard or ski-bob racing in International or National events, Services or Inter-Services Championships or heats or officially organised practice or training for these events, the use of skeletons (Cresta) or bob-sleighs, ski-jumping, hangliding, parapenting (unless with a recognised school on a trial basis only up to a maximum of 2 jumps which have not been pre-booked), free-style skiing, ice hockey or any form of racing. "

Jon Warburton · Post by **Jon Warburton** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 6:38 pm

considering the state of the NHS right now, any visiting riders injuring themselves in the UK would be well advised to drag themselves in agony to France or Holland where you might get into a decent hospital.

Jani Soderhall · Post by **Jani Soderhall** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:11 pm

During the years we used to run the Swedish Summer Camp I went to the emergency with participants more than once, not only for skate related injuries, but also for regular summer accidents like someone who had a rusty nail go through his foot on the jetty. At that time all costs were covered by the Swedish health care system, which was very generous at the time. Nobody would pay more than the admission fee to the hospital, approximately $5 at the time. I know that has raised to at least $15 or more and I'm no longer sure you can get away with paying only that. It would be interesting to find out.

In France you normally pay your visits to the hospital yourself and have it reimbursed by the social security system later. In some cases the hospitals will go through the extra effort of reclaiming the costs themselves, especially in the cases where care costs are high (ie hospitalization). So for minor accidents be prepared to pay for yourself, the regulations for major accidents conditions are certainly complicated and would differ from country to country and especially considering what relations the two concerned countries have to each other. I would expect European residents would be covered correctly within the European community.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:53 pm

When I was thinking about competeing in what was the former Eastern Block I considered that I might prefer US medical care. The cost was reasonable. $195 for me or $295 for a family membership per year (for instance if you were in a serious car accident with your family).

http://www.medjetassistance.com/

There were some restrictions in that they could fly you on commerical aircraft if they chose to do so...and you had luggage restrictions. But they have fully equipped Jets ready to evacuate you in hours if need be. Generally the diagnosis requires that you needed to be hospitalized. Think of it as a pre-paid air ambulance.

Then of course you are transported to your home hospital or hospital of your choosing.

I'm not sure if this is still this way..but several years ago Jani Soderhall told me if American Skaters were injured in Swedish Comps in Sweden the skater only paid a few dollars and was fully taken care of by the State run health system.

If I travel to skate in China...or even Japan... I would buy this insurance.

The costs for chartering your own jet in an emergency are staggering. In 1984 My Uncle had a Brain Seisure - the cost for a Leer Jet Ambulance to Florida from the Virgin islands was over $10,000 USD now it is likely to be higher.

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-06-29 09:54 ]

Jon Warburton · Post by **Jon Warburton** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:57 am

sorry pat my mistake "health" should have read"travel"
as for examples, i could probably dig out the paperwork within the next year or two but you'll have to take my word for it for now. last year i took out an extension on a standard travel insurance policy because RACING was specifically excluded. its got nothing to do with skateboards, or even "sport" as such, its RACING, whether in a car, on a bike, organised, outlaw, or even racing your buddy across the supermarket to the last bottle of gin on the shelf. hey maybe things are different over there but all im saying is its worth checking cos you dont want to be caught out. i once broke my collarbone high in the alps and had to take 3 descents and 3 chairlifts to get home cos i knew if the helicopter got me i'd be paying for it for the rest of my life.

[ This Message was edited by: Jon Warburton on 2003-06-28 20:02 ]

Pat Chewning · Post by **Pat Chewning** » Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:30 am

Jon Warburton Posted: 2003-06-28 06:46
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the real issue is to ensure you are covered for RACING as it is often excluded from ordinary health policies.

================================

The point in my previous post is that Racing is NOT excluded from any healthcare policy that I'm aware of. Most heathcare policies are written with restrictions/limits around the TREATMENTS and COSTS of the treament, not the lifestyle choices that might lead to the need for a treatment. (e.g They often don't cover "experimental" treatments, amount of coverage is better for doctors within the healthcare plan, deductible or co-pay amounts, etc).

Contrast this with disability and/or life insurance policies which are written with restrictions/limits on your lifestyle (aviation, smoker, suicide, etc).

So if you attempt suicide and are unsuccesful, I would expect your healthcare policy to pay for your recovery. If you attempt suicide and are successful, most life insurance policies will not pay benefits.

I believe in most cases if you look into it, the fact that you are skateboard racing should have no bearing on whether you are treated for an injury. Usually only the nature of the injury, the treatment chosen, and the location of the treatment are factors in the payment of benefits.

Does anyone have a specific example of a heathcare policy that denies benefits for injuries resulting from sports activities, racing, or skateboarding?

-- Pat

Jon Warburton · Post by **Jon Warburton** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:46 pm

the real issue is to ensure you are covered for RACING as it is often excluded from ordinary health policies. DO NOT tell them you are a professional because that will cost you big money.
jonnyx

Maria Carrasco · Post by **Maria Carrasco** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:44 am

Pat -- your points 3) and 4) are exactly the reasons we chose to buy travel insurance coverage for our European travel. I never expect Richy to hit the pavement but I felt alot better knowing we were prepared for the worst case scenario.

[ This Message was edited by: Maria Carrasco on 2003-06-27 21:46 ]

Pat Chewning · Post by **Pat Chewning** » Sat Jun 28, 2003 2:57 am

Another side of the insurance equation:

I don't think it is a good idea to buy "hazardous activity rider" insurance and here's why:

1) Don't you expect your health insurance to pay for health services NO MATTER HOW you aquired an injury or ilness? It pays for lung cancer for smokers, it darn well better pay for broken wrists for skaters. I'm not aware of any health insurance that won't pay for a health problem based on how you aquired the problem. They all cover accidental injury and ER room treatments.

2) It perpetuates a myth that slalom skateboarding is dangerous, and that active people should pay more than inactive people for health insurance. In fact I believe that inactive people ought to pay more.

3) Regardless, you might want to buy more insurance just to cover the differences involved in being in a foreign country with different ways of charging for health care. However, I would submit that this has nothing to do with skateboarding or other "activities", and everything to do with being in a country with different health care practices. (i.e. It might be a good idea just to cover the chances of comming down with the flu or pneumonia, as well as the chance of separating your shoulder in a skateboard race).

4) Another good idea for insurance is "extraction" insurance. This usually covers things like helicopters, air ambulance, etc -- which can get quite expensive. (Imagine the costs if you need an ambulance flight back to the US from Europe.) I know nearly all of the paraglider and hang glider pilots buy this before going to France and Turkey...

-- Pat

Maria Carrasco · Post by **Maria Carrasco** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:40 pm

Wes E - right on -- checked with those co's (I too have Rick Steves). Here is the company we used -- http://www.worldtrips.com Wes T -- they do offer domestic coverage too. Think I linked to them from Frommers.com or maybe EasyJet.com -- can't remember now. The wording in the rider is vague and doesn't list "skateboarding" specifically -- but I hear from a "legal beagle" that if it isn't specifically listed and other things are -- then it is included since it was not specifically "excluded". It could get a little sticky I think between "amateur" and "pro" classification as well . . . Guess if it came down to it -- may have to be put to the legal test.

Wes Eastridge · Post by **Wes Eastridge** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:16 am

From my PBS buddy Rick Steves:
Medical insurance generally covers only medical and dental emergencies. Check with your medical insurer—you might already be covered by your existing health plan. Find out about deductibles, if any, and the procedure for reimbursement of emergency expenses. Generally, your expenses are out-of-pocket, and you bring home documentation to be reimbursed. While many policies cover you overseas, Medicare and some HMOs do not.

And for general travel insurance:
Consider the package deals sold by Travel Guard (tel. 800/826-1300, http://www.travelguard.com), Access America (tel. 800/284-8300, http://www.accessamerica.com), and Travel Insured International (tel. 800/243-3174, http://www.travelinsured.com). InsureMyTrip.com allows you to compare insurance policies and costs among various providers (they also sell insurance).
The insurance menu includes four courses: medical, baggage, trip cancellation, and flight insurance. Choose the package that includes the coverage that matters to you.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:02 am

On 2003-06-26 22:04, Maria Carrasco wrote:
This seemed too risky to me so I looked into the various travel insurance available and found one that actually offered a "hazardous sports rider" which if I have read correctly -- would have covered skate-related injuries had they occurred. Thankfully, we didn't have to test that . . .

See? Now THAT'S cool news! I don't think I would have ever thought of such a thing. Hmmm ... I wonder if that's strictly for international travel or to any air destination? Could be a good idea to pick up additional coverage if I ever make it to California again. As Rick said, maybe my insurance carrier would balk at paying the bill if I knowingly did something stupid like ride a skateboard at 30 MPH down a steep hill? BUT, if I had a "hazardous sports rider" policy, then everything would be cool.

Thanks, Wanderwoman!

Maria Carrasco · Post by **Maria Carrasco** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 4:04 am

Can't speak for every country or every situation but I recently had to consider this for our trip to Brands and Grueningen. What I found out was that our US medical insurance would only cover per schedule ($$) as they would here. There are no foreign "contract" facilities and it would be at the discretion of the foreign facility to treat and/or bill our US insurance. This seemed too risky to me so I looked into the various travel insurance available and found one that actually offered a "hazardous sports rider" which if I have read correctly -- would have covered skate-related injuries had they occurred. Thankfully, we didn't have to test that . . .

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 1:21 am

Rick,

That's just my point: is it any different? Are all these international health care providers savvy enough to submit to my carrier? Or do I not get out of the hospital til I pay cash for a $4,000 accident?

In case you haven't noticed, I have only left the United States twice in my life: once for a weekend in Canada and as a wee lad in the care of my Navy dad. Back when I lived in Scotland, I really didn't give much thought to insurance matters.

Rick Stanziale · Post by **Rick Stanziale** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:08 am

How would it be any different from getting hurt in the United States? I'm pretty sure my health insurance covers me internationally (probably NOT if they knew I was racing skateboards, though).

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 12:01 am

Stupid question by a guy who has his health foremost on his mind these days: with all this international travel for skateboarding, what happens to an American skater if he gets REALLY hurt while in Europe? How does my insurance work if I'm in a Swiss hospital with a broken collarbone or a fractured femur? Does the european hospital just submit a bill to my American provider? Is it different to get hurt in France instead of Germany?

What about in England? Is any foreign visitor covered by National Health? If I were break my arm at Brands Hatch, would I just stroll into the local clinic and ask for treatment? I'm not trying to be flippant, but I've been seriously thinking about planning and considering a euro race next year and it suddenly dawned on me: what happens if I splatter over there? Has anyone from here been seriously injured while racing on the Continent? What happened?

I know this sounds like a silly question, but it's only silly right up until that split second when the ol' Avalons lose a bit of traction and you go sprawling across the asphalt. Then you hear things going "crack" and your limbs are skewed in a manner not necessarily considered normal.

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