Changing Directions..

[Brian Morris]

Has anybody ever tried setting courses with direction changes? Something where a course has a line that will move left to right besides offsets. I really don't know how to describe it best. Something like this: _/---___
I tried setting these courses ususally 6 to 6.5 spacing. Starting straight tight slalom for 5 cones, than what seems like an offset to 6 or 7 more straight cones even with the offset. Than another offset to straight than to another offset to another direction...ect....
They were really fun courses to try, occasionally traction became an issue when riding the offsets, but otherwise it offered a really challenging ride.

Regards,
"Brain"

[Andy Bittner]

Brain, It happens all the time, but it's also kind of nifty how you managed to "discover" it on your own. In my opinion, you are showing signs of really exploring and learning about what is, for me, the joy of the sport, and that is the course.

There are really almost endless ways in which a person could set up a slalom course. I often find, when a coursesetter has a limited, back-and-forth mentality to his style, the racing tends to become "just" going around the cones. Of course, racing IS about going around the cones, but when I set a course, I am much more concerned with setting a line. The difference, as I see it, is that when I set a course, every cone doesn't necessarily fall at the apex of each turn, and every cone needn't, necessarily, be passed as close as possible.

As for the particular set you're discussing, it can be fun to play with course rhythms in that way. Set three (straight) left, three (straight) right, three (straight) left, etc. 1-2-3-swing-3-2-1-swing-1-2-3-swing etc. To make it tighter and more contortional, start offsetting the middle cone of each set of three back toward the center a little. Now you're really starting to move your hips.

For the purposes of understanding course elements, there is another lesson you can learn from the three left, three right, three left, etc. set-up. In the previous paragraph, I had you offsetting the center, second cone of each three-cone set back toward the center line of the whole course. In this lesson, try moving that 2nd cone OUTWARD. Intuitively, it's easy to understand that this would make your passage through that set of three even easier, and that means you can carry more speed through that set.

Some people call this counter-offset a "gimmee" cone. I only agree with the term "gimmee", if that counter-offset cone is SO counter-offset that the rider needn't make ANY body movement or directional change to avoid it; otherwise, I call that counter-offset second cone, in each set of three, a "rhythm" cone. Does that make sense to you?

Let's say you're passing around the right side of the first cone of this set of three, following an offset... that means you're going to be passing around the right side of the first and third cone. You could offset the second cone to the RIGHT (counter-offset) by 3 inches, and, if you drew a line from the right edge of the first cone to the right edge of the third cone, that second cone would be sitting on that line. So, even though that cone is counter-offset, you could never ride straight from cone one to cone three without doing something to avoid cone two.

Now, counter-offset the second cone by 18 inches. This time, if you're travelling down the course fairly slowly, you might be able to go straight from cone one to cone three, without even flinching at cone two. That'd be a gimmee... unless you add speed. Add some speed and you'll have to start doing something to avoid cone two again, because your natural line around cones one and three will have more belly to it.

It is my opinion, and many people disagree completely, that this is how a cone that is clearly offset in the "wrong" direction can absolutely be a legitimate course feature, and a concept with which all good riders should become familiar. As a coursesetter, the example I just illustrated is how I would draw a line that was a high-speed offset over and offset back, with a quick, "tight slalom"-feeling hip throw in the middle that doesn't kill the overall speed.

Capiche? Prego!

[Pat Chewning]

OK, what you are describing is very much how slalom is done in ski racing: Using the best features of the hill to set the line appropriatly. This could include setting "fall-away" turns (turns to the left when the hil angles to the right), setting a tough series to slow the racer down just before a pitch change, and combining open and closed gates.

The "gimme" cone you are describing is what they call a "delay" gate in ski racing.

I agree, slalom courses should be varied and not consist of a line of equally-spaced, equal-offset cones. There should be a variation in speed, turn radius, and rhythm throughout the course. And the course should use the pitch changes, curves, texture, and other features of the hill to form a synergistically pleasing run.

-- Pat

[Vlad Popov]

Here are some fruits of my compulsory Slalom! restroom reading this evening.

In addition to Straight 1.75 m (6ft) Slalom, Giant Slalom, Special (Hybrid) Slalom, Straight 1 m (3 ft) Slalom, and Parallel Slalom, the Russians ran Figure Slalom in the 1980s-1990s. I don’t know if the Figure Slalom was a typical Russian type of Slalom (like 1 m, or 3 ft), but I found an article by Jani Soderhall(?) in Slalom! #12 July 1990, pg. 11-12 that explains what Figure Slalom is.

It’s about the three Swedish guys who went to race in Leningrad in 1990, but I quote here only the part that relates to the topic of this thread - changing directions.

“So what the hell is Figure slalom? Well, with one-meter (aprox 3 ft, VP) distance you put the cones however you like in straight lines, rectangles, ect. In many cases you have to make 270 (degree) turns and also some 360 (degree) turns. It is not done at high speed, which would be impossible, instead you gyrate yourself with grace just like in ballet. And I must say, even though I don’t like this to be an official event, I was impressed especially by Vladimir who could do 360 (degree) turns with the body in exactly the same place, only his board and his legs made a circle”.

How is that for “changing directions”?

And by the way, when you look at a typical GBJ course, the first thing you notice is a diagonal here and there. Andy loves “changing directions”!

Vlad.

[Brian Morris]

I called it changing directions, cause I really wasn't sure what else to call it.
With my time off, I've been thinking alot about setting a slalom course that would involve a whole parking lot instead of a street. Something that would start and end on the same side, including diagnals or direction changes, and a big sweeping U-turn at one end to another course with more diagnals, offsets, and tight sections. This would be both a challenge for wigglers (or wobblers like me) and pumpers. I think this could even end up as a 100+ cone race, endurance is a must.
What do you all think?

Regards,
"Brain"

[Vlad Popov]

Double post. Please delete. My delete button is stuck.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vlad Popov on 2003-02-24 16:22 ]</font>

[Vlad Popov]

I tried it.
It feels better to go faster on shorter courses then to go slower on longer ones. The amount of space we had at your race in NJ is sufficient for an interesting Hybrid course. The grade was only good for skating one way.
My concern is that you wouldn’t be able to get back to speed after slowing down for a turn. I’ve had drills on a regular basis in the summer months and 20-25 cones on a flat/slight grade high school parking lot was enough to learn slalom in a month. For “more interesting” stuff there are hills and huge offsets. But hey, do whatever to make yourself entertained when you’re back on your board.
Vlad.

[Brian Morris]

I'm not sure if I would call it a "hybrid" course, but figure slalom sounds good for some of the ideas i have. I also am working on plotting a spiral tight shaped course with the end of the course intersecting through the rest of it. Is anybody actually interested in riding "figure" slalom courses?? Personally I think it seems like a good new challenge to keep in shape.

Regards,
"Brain"

[Vlad Popov]

Brian,

My guess is that these figure skaters used a special equipment to skate figure slalom. I’ve seen Matsukevich’s board for one-meter courses in Slalom!, and the wheelbase looks tiny, like half the size of an average 19-inch wheelbase! The trucks were super tall and soft (so Jani said). We might have hard times with Figure Slalom just because we don’t have the equipment. Never mind the ability.
Figure slalom is also slow and gay-looking, and mucho-slalomers just might not like that. Plus, you’ll have to learn it, and it will take much time. Whatever looks good usually requires a lot of time to be perfected.

Personally I think running tight slalom courses and huge offsets is the best way to keep in shape. In addition, the next logical step for wimps like me would be to attend gym on a regular basis, as my physic is the next limiting factor on the way to improving slalom times. It is my belief that the success Luca and Ridolli and many other top slalomers enjoyed was linked to their physical abilities. Luca was/is a pro-climber and Ridolli pumped iron and did alpine. It’s obvious from their pictures that they are not just a couple of guys from a shopping mall having fun on a board.

And I’ll also be the first one (literally) to vote pro-ramp at your place (it belongs to a different sub-forum, but you’ll read it anyway). I don’t know the standard ramp size/stats, but I’m sure some nice people will share their knowledge.
You don’t need as much space as with a push start, and it hopefully will give competitors much needed speed for the somewhat flat course.
However, if the ramps don’t have any handles (like the ones you were going to use in NJ originally), and the racers need to foot-push from a ramp, I don’t think it’s worth using a ramp at all. A simple 2-3-whatever pushes will do the same thing and will equalize the field even better.

Vlad.

[John Gilmour]

Directional changes are really what tight slalom is all about at the higher levels.

What Andy said about gimmee gates is also true. A gimmee can turn into a non gimmee if the speed is high enough. We had One gimmee is a recent practice which was not a full gimmee. Gimmee gates leave you wondering in the middle of the course if you "Just DQ'ed" when you strangely pass a gate barely turning.


If you were to set a course with all gimmees say a simple offset course you could force a rider to take an absolutely straight line through some cones- a "forced guantlet" if you will. That could force a rider to pick up speed before entering a technical section. (Could be fun).

Of course the course is up to the course setter. But try to make sure that the course is clear enough to understand where you should be going- after all- that is why we use markers

TS ussually dictates the line the board must take through the cones and can force riders into contorted postitions at speed. That is where it gets fun- not unlike driving a race car while walking a tightrope at the same time. Some of the best photos taken of our sport show the body contortions needed to make a gate- and it really doesn't matter if you are a flexible or inflexible guy you'll make it if you want to- and the photos will reveal that you were able to do something you never thought possible.

You should always make use of the shape of the hill and the individual features of the hill to add challenge. (Try not to use rough pavement as a "challenge section") You can force the rider to fight the crown of the road in a turn.

For instance if the road were turning to the right and was heavily crowned- A row of curved cones set just over the crown to the right side will have the left turns become very easy....but the right turns are seriously difficult (climbing back up the crown). The skater must then position his body to the left of the cone line and change the line his legs takes through the cones to make it. (Do not set cones that constantly force you back over the crown with each gate - that is dangerous as your wheels will constantly be losing traction)

Set the same curve now over the other side of the crown and you have a "Banked turn" assisting you.

You can use a winding road to also add thrill to a course.

Set cones in the direction of the winding hill and you speed will be constant. Now set the cones going across the hill and your speed will accelerate as you crest the crown-now you'll have to fight to get back on track.

Having a good hill really helps- you can set challenging sections that would otherwise reduce you to a crawl on flatland and not have to set a series of straights to regain speed.

Having a good hill teaches you braking skills- being on flatland rarely uses much of that. Braking skills really add to the mix as "over braking" can add tenths very quickly to your time. Braking too early can have the same effect. Braking too late can leave you off balance for a fast technical section. Braking is a big part of auto racing and our sport can have the same thrills- with a lot fewer spills.

If you have a hill with varying pitch you can reduce the steepest parts of the hill in pitch by setting a line of cones across the fall line in the steepest sections. Try no to do this on a shallow hill- or you have just turned your course into flatland slalom.

[Brian Morris]

I always seem to set one of my direction changing courses with gimmie gates and always thought I kept missing a gate, after trying and trying i would eventually reset those sections of the course because I kept thinking setting those types of offsets were not possible to make. Its funny that I read about these now and realize I was setting really challenging courses and actually making them, before I change it up.
To answer your question here Vlad, the ramps are gonna be similar to the ramps used in the FCR series, although I am thinking about making the roll in longer rather than steep but higher, so the speed still carries through, but it lets riders come off the ramp more stable and have more of a chance to prepare for the first cone in a tight race.
Regards,
"Brain"