What is the ideal type of course to set to start a slalom sc

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John Gilmour
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Post by John Gilmour » Mon Jan 27, 2003 5:52 pm

In NYC a slalomer friend of mine and I used to skate "The Tavern On the Green course in Central Park (A simple set of straight cones 6-6.5 feet on center maintained by slalomskateboarder/Rollerskater/inline skaters for the past 20 years). We both rode Turners, and to newbies wanting to get into it they did not feel as comfortable learning to slalom when either one of us were around as it was that there might have been a 5 second gap in times (apparent to a hundred or so spectators) through a 30 cone course. It was Dual for a while and then single track for years. Timers were not readily available.

We failed to spur slalom growth- and in the end it was only about 4-5 guys that skated NYC on slalom decks most from the 1970's (and of course there was no equipment - no ebay either- around to buy).

In Boston I started a slalom course - also a beginner course with cones 6-7 foot on center - straights. But this time it was a dual course. This was more interesting as people paired up to race others of similar ability levels- but it really only attracted Inline skaters (200-400 a week). Frankly it was boring on boards. We had about 5 guys racing on Turners there. Timing was sporadically available- either tapeswitch or light beam- we also had music- (then "new" techno/rave/trance and DJ-) - a big draw for spectators.

GBJ started his own scene in DC which gathered more skaters than most other scenes-a non intimidating course format- with the ability to run on a wide range of gear.

So what would you like to see in a format?

my 2 cents

1. Music system- if possible without getting complaints
2. Good set of preset courses- always two different types of courses available at any one time (ideally a "multi level course" and a high intermediate to expert) Courses should change every 2 hours to keep it fresh.
3. excellent surface + either moderate pitch or two hills ADJACENT nearby with differing pitch.
4. Good pedestrian foot traffic- but separate pathway for pedestrians.
5. Visibility to a commuter area so people in cars would see that a skateboard slalom scene is there and regularly set
6.Regular sessions
7.Goals towards local competitions or region competitions
8. Timer - a MUST! Independent timing for each lane.
9. Timer display- small one at the top for people to cluster around and a larger one- able to be seen by competitors as they skate by at the bottom.
10. Pay in a quarter per timed run- proceeds to go to a "happy hour" after racing to help introduce the newbies to the locals- newbies drink free, and to encourage the newbies to stick it out until the end of the session.

Rick Stanziale
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Post by Rick Stanziale » Mon Jan 27, 2003 9:28 pm

I can't help but believe we have to look beyond just course setting and consider equipment. If we are honestly interested about racing skateboards in the street, we've got to be able to encourage kids to "race what they brung" (i.e. kickflip boards). Sure the slalom scene has grown exponentially over the past few years, but it's grown among 30 and 40 somethings with disposable income we never even dreamed of having as a kid. I'm asking again, are we about fifteen minutes of fame, or are we about racing skateboards in the street? By no means do I want to discourage or belittle what FCR and others did and continue to do, but is there a future in it? Thoroughly enjoyed your recent treatise on "Hybrid courses" and look forward to further discussion.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rick Stanziale on 2003-01-27 15:31 ]</font>

Jack Smith
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Post by Jack Smith » Mon Jan 27, 2003 10:35 pm

Great Post, Rick.
We desperately need new blood. I see so many people with good intentions and ideas posting on both sites, what we need now is follow through. All these postings about "here's what we need to do"...please go do it!
An idea is all it is, until you make it happen.

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Post by Brian Morris » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:20 am

I think Hackett created the best way to introduce slalom to the kids on flipper boards. Park slalom, though it isn't traditional slalom as we know it, is an awesome way for kids to get involved with the equipment they have. Having more of these events can really push the envelope of slalom. If we also set "traditional" slalom courses along with the park competition, the kids can see how its really done.
Brian

Rick Stanziale
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Post by Rick Stanziale » Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:38 pm

Jack,

Pardon the pun but, I'm takin' it to the streets!

Brian,

I couldn't agree more about setting courses outside local skateparks. They've been doing it in Colorado for some time now.

And you're right, Hackett is crossing over, more power to him (us)!

Bickering, infighting? No thanks, I'm almost 40 and will be lucky if I have another 25 years of skateboarding in me (not that I'm not gonna try!)

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Post by John Gilmour » Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:16 pm

This will have lousy tone- so disregard it- I just have to say it as I see it.

The 12-17 year old kickflipper demographic simply is not going to accept slalom.

Sure there will be exceptions, but I don't and haven't seen it happening.

I've tried setting courses for kickflipper decks and you it is akin to setting up a street ollie course for slalom decks.

Kickflipper Kids that age want IMMEDIATE satifaction and a feeling of accomplishment that can come in 5 minutes- not five hours.

When I was that age and someone told me I could become good ina sport in 5 years it thought..... hey that's nearly half of hte time I have been walking....forget it. I want to look good TODAY- not 5 years from now. And for kids without a personal coach or with the ability to ride with the pros- 3-5 years is what it will take. VIDEO would be a big help.

Our market is young kids who don't have the needed coordination and lightning agility to kickflip- and commuting college students and older.

Trying to get kickflippers to slalom is about as effective as trying to sell high priced wine to 21 year olds- a few might "get it" but for the most part they would rather buy beer. Who ever heard of "funneling" wine?

Racers are the demographic we should be approaching.Should we be looking for bike racing series that have closed down roads and be setting slalom courses along their closed down roads before and after their race....I think so.

our racing is cheaper- more compact, quicker for a workout, and more thrilling than road biking.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-01-30 11:18 ]</font>

Andy Bittner
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Post by Andy Bittner » Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:46 pm

I agree completely.

The very notion that we have to plumb the ranks of the kickflippers in order to have a market is such a limiting thought. Although it IS all skateboarding, if slalom is going to succeed as a sport, it's going to have to do so as its' own sport. Certain skaters from other skateboard disciplines will always gravitate over from time to time, but we will be best served by regarding the market for slalom as being so much bigger than just the kickflippers, that time spent attracting that one market won't seem nearly as important as so many people want to make it. Our market are people with that special attraction to the very concept of racing or "Racers", athletes, skateboarders, in-liners, snowboarders, skiers, go-cart racers, families, adults, youth, etc, etc.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Andy Bittner on 2003-01-30 11:47 ]</font>

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Post by Neil Gendzwill » Thu Jan 30, 2003 5:54 pm

Know what happens when you set a slalom course for KFKs? They ollie over each cone. Then they miss and squish your cones.

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Post by John Gilmour » Sat Feb 01, 2003 6:40 pm

Racers are our market- not kickflippers. Come on everyone......how stupid are we? (Rhetorical question). We have tried for over 20 years to sell slalom to kickflippers. It hasn't worked for the past 20 years and it won't work for the next 20 years......GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS- marketig to the general body of skateboarders is a complete waste of time and energy. GBJ is right.

Out of 200 kickflippers you might convert 3, 2 of which will drop it after a week. Out of 200 RACERS ie bike racers,longboard cruisers and downhillers, windsurfers, BMX, Mountain Bikers, Motocross, auto..... you might convert 30 of them, 10 of which might stop after a month.


Look at where the new blood has come from.
UR13- snowboard carving
Vlad Snowboard racing/carving
CMC snowboard racing carving
Tod Drescher- snowboard carving
LBK- longboarding/surfing
TK surfing/longboarding

What about the West coast?

Brad Edwards-longboarding
Michael Breem- Longboarding

Please feel free to fill in other West Coasters.

Neil- I have also experienced KFK's ollieing cones- setting courses for them is pretty much a complete waste.

Freestylers are not about speed, or being competitive- they are about flow -image, style, and being themselves-individuals- they are not about finding their place within the pack. They want to be "experts" in their own realm- and that's fine....it just doesn't lend itself to slalom or racing.

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Post by Rick Stanziale » Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:06 pm

We can agree to disagree.

Snowboarding/Longboarding sure......but where are the other racers coming from?

The allure of slalom can be it's relative quick learning curve (as opposed to kickflip tricks). Ninety percent of those kids will never excel in tech trick oriented skateboarding.

I believe longboarding has contributed greatly to the growth of slalom and I had imagined great things coming out of Folly Beach last year. People have their own opinions on that issue, I'm not going there.

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Post by Claude Regnier » Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:37 pm

Maybe we could find some backing and plan a travelling crew to Tour between events. it's thier job to skate around the World.

They also compete in Major comps for the Growth of the sport. It would take a combined effrot and representation from all available sources.

Visit skateparks and ski resorts with prebooked demo's. Some Friendly Fierce Racing amongts a touring group. We would likely also need to involved some Sponsors outside of the Slalom sources but this is how Hawk got Vert under it's re-birth way in 87-88 when the industrt realised it was going to sell 10's of 1,000s of street decks compared toVrts boards.

There seem to be enough races being organised across the US this year a couple in Europe and possibly a couple in Canada. I'm sure we could coun't on concrete wave for regular support (covrerage) and I'm also thinking that prodicing a couple of Vids and other similar stuff may help.

We could also promote GRS/GRASS - USSSF - CSSF (hopefully get it going) and ISSA. I don't know it's certainally worth working on. I have been working on the Sport since passing my 1rst petition for a Skaktepark in 1976, I don't think it's time to pack it in at the moment besides I can still kick some ass once in a while.

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Post by John Gilmour » Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:29 pm

I think the Harlem Globe trotters used a similar plan. I Saw THGT and thought they were great.

I wouldn't mind piggy backing along an existing skate tour. Provided that the sport wouldn't be shortchanged with a say a too small straight slalom with no speed.

With todays large video screens + oversized stadiums it might work out a lot better.

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