ISSA - International Slalom Skateboarding Association

Wait, what?

Karl is coming?

I just bought an airline ticket based on previous information.

Kenny you owe me $275. That's a lot of swag. And I don't want 200 sets of black khiro bushings.

Joe

PS - McCree - I contributed to your debt. I'll pay your entry fee to the Farm if you want to come.

i dont think i said slalom is dead in past 25 weeks or so.

but what i did say was that "the rainbow train is dead", i should have known better with all your 5th grade commen sence. THE RAINBOW TRAIN IS NOT SLALOM!

is slalom dead?, ask yourself.

no better yet, ask the next twenty thousand no make that the next forty thousand strangers you meet if they know what slalom skateboarding is.

all this talk about money 25k 30k 40k thats lint in the pocket of real sports.

to me slalom skateboarding is on life support, just wating for someone to pull the plug.

dont get me wrong i had fun racing, but no longer do i have the money or the time to be a skateboard racer.

i guess i will have to live just being a skateboarder.

damm i thought i was going to be a superstar.

Jeff Goad wrote: damm i thought i was going to be a superstar.

Dude, I know! Look at your avatar. You've got superstar written all over you. Plus I think you've had "fag" written all over you one time when you passed out in my room.

I miss you and your family too.

Joe

F***k all these guys Karl.
You are annoying on occasion but you'll grow out of it.
Some of these guys (I'm sure you don't know who you are but I wish you did), will never grow out of it.
I think the one division that Slalom Skateboarding stands out in is the highest overall percentage of absolute CHOADS invovled.
I'm not sure what exactly it is but it's very high. (perhaps someone should do a poll?).

I think you're a good guy, are doing a lot for this sport and will go far in life.

Consider the source.

McCree,

Paris and Stockholm were two of the greatest weeks of my entire life. I have had some great times, but those were the absolute peak of my slalom fun. I just cannot believe you did it. It was like a dream. That killer pad in Paris, with the little elevator. Olson making breakfast ? I am glad I knew how lucky we were really appriciated it at the time. My God that seems like a dream.

Stockholm and that killer hotel next to all the bars, the skatepark, the metro, the late-night food stand. And Sarah. Oh Sarah. Pinch me...

Troy Smart wrote:F***k all these guys Karl.
You are annoying on occasion but you'll grow out of it.
Some of these guys (I'm sure you don't know who you are but I wish you did), will never grow out of it.
I think the one division that Slalom Skateboarding stands out in is the highest overall percentage of absolute CHOADS invovled.
I'm not sure what exactly it is but it's very high. (perhaps someone should do a poll?).

I think you're a good guy, are doing a lot for this sport and will go far in life.

Consider the source.

Hey! Aren't you the guy that talked a whole bunch of shit about our race on the thread about it on here and then never showed up? Awesome man! How's it going?

Troy Smart wrote:F***k all these guys Karl.
You are annoying on occasion but you'll grow out of it.
Some of these guys (I'm sure you don't know who you are but I wish you did), will never grow out of it.
I think the one division that Slalom Skateboarding stands out in is the highest overall percentage of absolute CHOADS invovled.
I'm not sure what exactly it is but it's very high. (perhaps someone should do a poll?).

I think you're a good guy, are doing a lot for this sport and will go far in life.

Consider the source.

Cool! Troy thinks I suck!! And my guidance counselor said I'd never amount to anything!!

As racers we have a high cost for gear, travel, practice time (if we actually have time to do it) among other things like accomodations & food.

Think of the shwag that many of the companies are dishing out to certain races and event versus their actual volume sales.

Think of all the time organizational time it takes to put on a well run race and all the people involved. Giving up their free time. More and more we are seing people that do not skate lending a hand and helping to make our events better and better.

Think of all the other un-costs associated when costing out the high costs of attending events. In reality it's a lot less then other sports. Remember when you are calculating costs that you are almost competing against the best in the World.

It isn't a local thing with maybe some of the best locals, it's in a lot of cases the best from North America, Europe or even both. Hell people pay thousands of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to watch sports featuring the best in the World.

You can ask people that know nothing about slalom skateboarding their opinion all you want. I will guaranty if you ask informed people about it you'll be surprised at the answers. A lot of people love racing and the excitmnent. We just need to keep pluging away. More and people are being exposed to Slalom.

That's we can do is continue to spread the stoke.

Claude:

Thanks for putting some "real" insight into this - your post was excellent.

It is not a question of is slalom "dead", is slalom "gay" or is Karl a "knob"?

Nor, is it a question of GOG's better than Radikals, 4 wheels versus 6!

It is more about doing a sport that we all love and enjoy doing - for whatever reason drives us.

For such a small world community - we seem to get really caught up in the little bullshit and it turns into the third world war - which benefits no-one.

We all understand that we like to compete - but let's keep this for the course, not in our dealings with each other - I am so tired reading negativity and listening to everyone talk about who pisses off who.

Let's put the crap behind, concentrate on having fun and enjoying a sport that we all love and appreciate the people that spend the time, money and effort to put on an event and enjoy having the opportunity to get together, race and have FUN!

See everyone in OHIO in 7 days - I can't wait

Rob

Sydia's a bedwetter!


Best of luck in oHIo, Rob!

Fatty

After what Claude said, I started thinking (in case anyone was wondering what that burning smell is) and looked. Right now, sets of 2 Ohio State versus Michigan Tickets are on sale on ebay for $800 (for not that great of seats mind you). To get on the 50 yardline is now costing, though it's several months away yet, $1400. That's just to watch, not compete in, one of college football's greatest rivalries. That doesn't take into account, of course, meals, lodging, etc and of course, and free schwag is not expected. Though budget for everyone is definitely a concern, the $130 I'm shelling out for the Worlds to enter and actually compete against the best in the world doesn't seem that much.

Mark McCree wrote:Hello GUYS, Remember me?????

I'm still paying for the 380 k I spent on races from jan. 2003 to oct. 2005. But it was FUN.

Let's see, Paris '05 cost 35k. Stockholm '05----28k

$100.00 ????? -----Cigar money man.

Love all you guys, I just had to say HI.......... Later

PS. It wasn't DADDIES money either.

Mark McCree

Hey man, I don't know you but I'm with ya...The last three years I competed 7 months a year at marathon kayaking, followed by 5 months competing in alpine snowboarding - just in the US and Canada but still spent a BOATLOAD of money, much of it on credit cards which now rule my life. Racing ANYTHING just cost $$$. Was it worth it? Hell yeah! I had the best times of my life since I stopped being a competitive windsurfer in 1993 - probably better since getting to do it all over again at age 42-45 made it that much more special. to make it all even MORE worth it, last year I got a USCA Kayak Nationals silver, and two golds and a silver at the USASA Snowboard Nationals. I can't afford the kayak thing any more (competitive boats are $3000 -$4000) and some of my snowboard buddies convinced me to race skateboards again after 22 years. Skating can be expensive too of course, so unfortunately because of my debts from other sports I can't go to as many events as I'd like, but YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE! Gotta grab it while you can. I simply cannot believe that at 45 I will be going to the Worlds right here in my own country and the entry fee is only $130! Heck the snowboard nationals entry fee was $300. I also know that just stting cones to train locally like I did yesterday is plenty fun, a good workout, and FREE (i.e. no lift ticket/pass needed). How cool is that?!?! And for the price of a half tank of gas tomorrow I'm going to train with PSR and Schwip...even at $3 a gallon it's a bargain.

I got to know Karl a little the last few months and he's not so bad. Young, a little ego inflated (should have seen ME at that age ) but learning and certainly talented. I think what he was doing is trying to start a thread so people think about how we can get more corporate sponsorship for events to bring the price to the event host and racers down a little, and to make it more affordable to kids (and their 'rents) who don't have a ton of cash. It's a nice thought, and he DID point out it wasn't a jab at any one event, but the reality is this. At our snowboard events we have plenty of corporate sponsors, but it doesn't bring the price down much at all, it just makes it easier for the event promoter to put on a good contest and a better contest than if there were no sponsorship. Also, as much as little Joey wants to race and can't afford it, that's just life. I probably could have gone much further with my sports as a teen, but we didn't have the money. Was I jealous of kids who did? Hell yeah. Was I angry about it? Yup. Did it ruin my life? No. It's the sports that are fun, the competitions are just an added plus for those who can swing it. The only thing I wish was that everyone could go to contests to meet all the cool people with similar interests you get to know from all over the world! After every kayak/windsurf/snowboard Nationals I always said I wished we all lived in the same place and could race and hang out with each other every week...but then again, those events wouldn't be such brightly shining memories if they lost their uniqueness. IT'S ALL GOOOOOOD!!!!

Ride on brothers and sisters! Roll and Rock!

-RF

holy f*ck, just look at all this kum-by-a and love-me-tender going on in here....

Races are a fraction of the cost of this sport...travel costs allot but you're not just traveling for a race, youre traveling to see old friends, to party...and to tell the people at work and school that you took a plane to some other state to skateboard all weekend and you like bragging like that....And a decent board will set you back 4-500 all day long...and most of us have more than one....and 30 pounds of urethane wheels...etc

but getting some aggression in here wont f*cking hurt anybody
(Karl, this part is not intentionally directed to you or previous posts on this thread, just to slalom postings in general)....
it doesnt have to target any one person, but how come every time something comes up and people get pissed it always ends up 30 posts later in a love fest?.....

If there's one thing this sport is still lacking is some grit...dirt...gnarl...whatever you want to call it

Of course, i could be wrong.....if i am, please feel free to find me at the Buckeye, hold my hand, tell me i'm loved and pat my backside
Love you all
Yours Truly
BARA
xoxoxox

Claude Regnier wrote:As racers we have a high cost for gear, travel, practice time (if we actually have time to do it) among other things like accomodations & food.

Think of the shwag that many of the companies are dishing out to certain races and event versus their actual volume sales.

Think of all the time organizational time it takes to put on a well run race and all the people involved. Giving up their free time. More and more we are seing people that do not skate lending a hand and helping to make our events better and better.

Think of all the other un-costs associated when costing out the high costs of attending events. In reality it's a lot less then other sports. Remember when you are calculating costs that you are almost competing against the best in the World.

It isn't a local thing with maybe some of the best locals, it's in a lot of cases the best from North America, Europe or even both. Hell people pay thousands of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ to watch sports featuring the best in the World.

You can ask people that know nothing about slalom skateboarding their opinion all you want. I will guaranty if you ask informed people about it you'll be surprised at the answers. A lot of people love racing and the excitmnent. We just need to keep pluging away. More and people are being exposed to Slalom.

That's we can do is continue to spread the stoke.

Hey Claude - I was training up at the Sugarbush parking lots yesterday and five of the local park rats finallly came by and talked to me about it. I let them ride my Fullbag TS. They said they thought slalom was a thing from the 70's, but that it looked COOL. How about that! They were amazed how fast and smooth the wheels were. They said they never knew a skateboard could turn that tight at speed and stay stuck to the ground - although they really weren't turning very tight at all. They want to come try the cones next time I'm up there...whaddaya know! It's funny because I saw them looking as they drove by a few weeks ago, then they parked and watched the following week, then finally approached me yesterday...one kids eys got HUGE when he saw my tackle box full of bushings and what not. Maybe next year I will be able to bring a psse of youngsters to Dovercourt with me?!?!

If a GD hot dog eating contest can get coverage on ESPN and attract a huge crowd to see it, can slalom be that far out of the mainstream? Maybe we should have an eating contest as a sideshow at our events? Of, I forgot, some already do!

spoken like a true canuckistanian.listen love child,lets face it,this is about chicago vs.detroit vs.jersey.vs. conneticuit vs.brooklyn vs california vs. florida vs the south east vs st lou vs Miss vs texas vs coss vs. DC vs cascade.the worst of it all is how everyone tries to take out the competition by getting each other messed up and pretending we're "friends" and sharing some beer or tequila or whatever.you know how many times i have stayed up late listening to you babble,like i am interested,hoping you put away an extra six pack?.that goes for you too eddy,we love it when you bring a couple botlles of tequila,have you noticed you drink most of it?because thats the plan.looking forward to the buckeye,seeing all you scumbags and pretending that i missed you,as if.cfav

Robert Sydia wrote:Claude:

Thanks for putting some "real" insight into this - your post was excellent.

It is not a question of is slalom "dead", is slalom "gay" or is Karl a "knob"?

Nor, is it a question of GOG's better than Radikals, 4 wheels versus 6!

It is more about doing a sport that we all love and enjoy doing - for whatever reason drives us.

For such a small world community - we seem to get really caught up in the little bullshit and it turns into the third world war - which benefits no-one.

We all understand that we like to compete - but let's keep this for the course, not in our dealings with each other - I am so tired reading negativity and listening to everyone talk about who pisses off who.

Let's put the crap behind, concentrate on having fun and enjoying a sport that we all love and appreciate the people that spend the time, money and effort to put on an event and enjoy having the opportunity to get together, race and have FUN!

See everyone in OHIO in 7 days - I can't wait

Rob

Damn it Favero i really DO love you like a brother...

see there.......maybe it's a midwest thing......there's a pattern there...

Christopher Bara wrote:Damn it Favero i really DO love you like a brother...

see there.......maybe it's a midwest thing......there's a pattern there...

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Okay! Let's get this under control now, EH!

For those of you heading to Ohio. Let's get this Luv fest under control.

NO BACKING INTO YOUR PARKING SPOT!

Well, somebody had to say it!

oh sh*t i forgot about that!

Dont let Claude fool you folks....if you have not been to the Buckeye before (first of all, you missed out, but besides that)...when you get to the Big Run Park...make sure to BACK your car into a parking spot....especially if youre early and there's nobody else there yet..

Dont worry, it's safe...

you may even have somebody walk up and ask if you need a hand

Damm my Tequila plan has allways back fired on me. I love you bros to. See you at the Buckeye. Think of it this way bros. There will be no keyboard racers there telling us what we can or can't ride. It is time to shut up and skate. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws/Pavel Flo

who needs a keyboard?.....i can tell you what a skateboard is in person Eddy.....

Christopher Bara wrote:holy f*ck, just look at all this kum-by-a and love-me-tender going on in here....Of course, i could be wrong.....if i am, please feel free to find me at the Buckeye, hold my hand, tell me i'm loved and pat my backside
Love you all
Yours Truly
BARA
xoxoxox

Damn, here I am cursing this F-ed up knee and it turns out to be devine intervention....
It's serendipitous moments like this that make me realize how truly lucky I am... ....

Yea well C-Nova was allways my favorite Freak Brother. Luv ya C-Fav.

Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws/Pavel Flo

Not very nice post deleted.
Peace and love.

Its fools like Troy that keep Slalom so fun and flourishing...
He does so much for the sport!!!!

youve got to be kidding me ...you are the fawking chode

This sport needs to be taken back by skateboarders if it will ever really grow, and you my friend (and Karl for that matter) are not skateboarders.....

Christopher Bara wrote: please feel free to find me at the Buckeye, hold my hand, tell me i'm loved and pat my backside
Love you all
Yours Truly
BARA
xoxoxox

Where exactly will you be Mr. Bara? That's a mighty fine invitation, uh huh!

And Joe I................ I have a bone to pick with you, my friend. I will find you AND it won't be pretty.

well, this is the PM i got from Mr Smart (who has since deleted his post like a pussy)

"I do what I can for a sport that I barely participate in.
I'm twice the skater that you ever were or will be.
Go f#@k yourself."

Ill ask the kids and all the racers at the event local I am putting on today if they think Mr Smart does anything for slalom. 4 disciplines (1 is a rad crossover longboard race, and TS, Hybrid and GS). Maybe he cant participate because he sucks? lack of time cant be the excuse, hell, i still skate and I coach 2 soccer teams, run a brewery and have 4 kids as well as being on the committee for Nationals...Slalom will not grow up until SKATEBOARDERS take the sport back from kooks like this. ..We will continue to keep growing Slalom (and skateboarding) in ColoRADo...

what an asshole, maybe someday he will realize that he is just another guy who skates to get away from the wife and kids....thats what golf is for buddy
here in Colorado we skate wih our kids....we take them to parks, we have races to help train them, and they are the kids at races who help out the most, race hard and treat all other racers with respect...Nothing in sk8n here is better than seing the groms kicking ass in the open mens division and working their way twords the pro ranks, then going and skating bowls with them the next day...

slalom isnt dead or dying, its just on stoke sustaind life support until we can bring in a new breed of SKATEBOARDERS....and it will still continue be the expensive, browdown party weekends until that happens

the one thing i can say for sure.slalom certainly has not done anything spelling or grammar.an edjumacatedperson would think we're all in 3rd grade,except for eddy,he's the smart one,he's in fourth.cf

I really should'nt post anything at all but I'm going to anyway.
In the first place PM stands for Private Message. I doubt anyone else cares what I have to say to you or vise versa.
You posted that to demonstrate what an "asshole" I am? I don't think it does that. I think it's very apparent who the "asshole" is.
In the second place, you have an awful lot to say about me. Someone you don't know and someone you've never even met.
In the third place, What the hell's wrong with you?

I just realized something. Although every kid and adult who skates wants the cash to buy a board, I don't know if there's another skateboard discipline where the participants spend so much time talking about money.

Do Downhillers and Lugers talk about money? Does the cost of a new luge or getting to an event permeate their every conversation?

Slalomers do seem to talk about money A LOT: the cost of equipment, traveling, registration, the organizers and the cost of putting on an event and prize money.

What if there were NO prize money? Would any skater stop slaloming if prize money was no longer part of the event? What's more, is there any evidence relatively small amounts of prize money has deterred anyone from slaloming? Does anyone know of someone who said, "nah, I'm not doing that. There's no money in it." What if the prize money offered today was spent instead on better parties and more beer kegs for everyone? Would anyone stop racing? Yeah, I know. I'll never win money so this is sour grapes. Be that as it may, everyone has to admit the money (no matter the available amount) goes to a very, very small percentage of the racers. Is it the only reason some people ride cones? Here on the East Coast we all still chuckle about the race where the pro won $100 . . . and the top Am got a $225 Radikal.

This isn't a condemnation of any kind, just an observation. It would appear, though, slalom skateboarding and money are tied at the hip. Also, I must say I'm not naive about money. I know what it takes to participate and to promote events. My point, however, is there just seems to be a lot of discussion about the matter. And like I said, do snowboarders, skiers, fishermen, other skaters or bow hunters spend a lot of time talking about money in relation to their sport? I don't know the answer.

Wesley Tucker wrote:...do snowboarders, skiers, fishermen, other skaters or bow hunters spend a lot of time talking about money in relation to their sport? I don't know the answer.

Snowboarders? Heck yeah. When a Kessler race deck cost $1500 you do hear a lot of discussion, but it's not negative. More like - "wish I could but I can't". But you ride what you can. I beat 114 people in my SL race at USASA Nationals this year on a 4 year old Hot Blast stock deck that cost me $150. Bindings - $130. Boots - $80 on ebay.

Look what Luca rides, or used to - not sure what he's on now. So it isn't all equipment that makes the difference.

My point I guess is, if you REALLY love something, and are commited to it, you will find a way. Skateboarding is the cheapest sport I've been involved in!

And here's a vote, considering where this thread has gone at times, for all of us who are "grown ups" to drop the high school BS and try to be more positive. Doesn't need to be a "love fest" - but name calling? Come on. I know some of it has been in jest, which is actually pretty funny, but some has not...serves nobody.

I agree with Rick name calling is fun and some is in jest. Got to agree with Troy on this one what the hell is wrong with you? I am very lucky. Here is something I have learned from Grand Master Kang, he has helped me add alot of discipline to my life.

The Trinity of Tae Kwon Do consists of the three major aspects of Tae Kwon Do; the Body, the Mind, and the Spirit. In order for an individual to develop into a complete and well-rounded person, he must cultivate each aspect of Tae Kwon Do. If only one or two of the aspects are developed, then a person, no matter how hard he trains, may never become a true Master of Art of Tae Kwon Do.

The first aspect of Tae Kwon Do is the body. When a person begins his training, he must first learn to stretch his muscles and get his body into physical condition to perform the movements of Tae Kwon Do. He works on kicks, stances, blocks, hand strikes, breathing, rhythm, balance, and much more in order to properly execute the techniques. The practice of these exercises and techniques are sharpening the individual's physical condition and thus developing a strong body. Every time he comes to class or trains at home, he is continuing to strengthen his body. This is the beginning. The first step toward the development of the total individual.

The second aspect of Tae Kwon Do is the mind. While learning the physical techniques of Tae Kwon Do, the individual is engaged in an intense edification process. He learns anatomy, how his body functions, what enables it to generate more power, and the weak points of the body so he can both protect his vital areas, and use the opponent's weak points to defend himself. The student is learning to focus his concentration and to set and reach goals which he may have felt were far beyond his capabilities. He learns to teach and help others and share his knowledge with other members of the dojang (school). He becomes confident, knowing he can defend himself, his family, and should the need arise, his country. He has also learned how not to fight. How to walk away from a confrontation. That when a person engages in physical conflict, no one wins. He learns it is better to help others so they to can learn the "Way" of Tae Kwon Do and help build a more peaceful world.

The third and final aspect of Tae Kwon Do is the spirit. The evolution of the spiritual aspect of Tae Kwon Do is achieved only after the physical and mental aspects have begun to unfold and take root. A person may have a strong body and he may possess a vast amount of knowledge but, in order to become a complete individual he must have vision. He must believe in an idea, other people, himself, and God. This stage of enlightenment comes when a person is at peace with himself. He must cultivate the ability to stand up for his beliefs, to not give in to others who lack the courage to stand by their convictions. The person who has developed the spiritual aspect of Tae Kwon Do has faith in not only himself, but those around him. He has become one with the tenets and teachings of Tae Kwon Do. He lives Tae Kwon Do every day of his life. He applies the tenets of Tae Kwon Do to his work, family and friends, and yes, even to his enemies: Courtesy, Integrity, Perseverance, Self-control, and an Indomitable Spirit. He has reached total development. He has become a true student of the Art of Tae Kwon Do.

The trinity of Tae Kwon Do can be found in the positioning of the hands when performing Kwang-Gae, the hyung (pattern) required to reach first degree black belt. This positioning of the hands represents the body, mind and spirit, the trinity of Tae Kwon Do. The trinity can also be found in the knot formed in the belt when it is tied properly.

So I ask you do you know me? Do you really know me? Am I a drunk or illiterate. I will think of you my friends when I am training on Tuesday night, allways searching for inner peace. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws/Pavel Flo

Eddy Martinez wrote:The person who has developed the spiritual aspect of Tae Kwon Do has faith in not only himself, but those around him.

Man, that's a tough one...but so true. If you can do it, it makes life better for one self, others, and thus the world in general...and what's wrong with that. The above can be passed off as idealistic, but if we don't strive toward positive ideals, than what's the point. This is pretty serious stuff for a skateboard forum of course, but skating is just a "game" and negativity and hate among people is not.

Wow Karl...look where your thread has gone now!

Eddy - I look forward to meeting you at a race some time...i could use some of what you talk about in my life.

-RF

Eddy - I look forward to meeting you at a race some time...i could use some of what you talk about in my life.


Rick..You have it within you already! Just like all people. They need to simply utilize it and all would benefit!

Weatherwax, Karl is Indeed a Skateboarder!! If you only knew (something, hell, anything!).

Troy has a good point about who's the bunger, and I'd say his other points also count.

Go get a LIFE, would ya, Mr. weatherwax?

Thanks in Advance!

Man this is awesome...

Hey Joe I - Can we please setup a Pugel Stick event over a Mr.Turtle pool filled with Jersey septic tank squeezin's at the Farm this year? We can do it right beside the Team Fatboy tent, Nicky can find some local talent to be "ring girls" etc, etc.

Might be a good way to settle some scores

~Topgun

wow, now the mighty PSR chimes in

Karl is a slalomer, not a skateboarder....(hell, I have several friends in Colorado who are fast slalomers, but not skateboarders

Goad is a skateboarder, Hackett is a skateboarder, Donald is a skateboarder, Chicken is a skateboarder, , Richie is a skateboarder, Chaput is a skateboarder, Palmer is a skateboarder, Mitchell is a skateboarder...

Its gonna take involvement from skateboarders, not whiney brats with rich parents to influence skateboarders to enter our sport...

Just watch and see what ColoRADO brings to the table this year....
we have a junior class with crossover skills and love for all types of Skating as well as a huge group of college age racers who also speedboard and skate parks....thats what it will take to grow the sport..

I am done with this topic..I put on a rad crossosver COSS race yesterday, spent some time at the machine shop I am helping set up today, and now its time to go sk8

I'm an Administrator (sometimes I have to remind myself of that.)

I've LOCKED this thread. I won't delete it because that's not cool.

Karl made his point, it's been refuted and supported. If anyone has a really brilliant, insightful ORIGINAL idea to put forward, start a new topic. This one has pretty much gone round the bend.

If anyone wants to hurl anymore insults or slam someone else's ability to skate or race, there's the dark side of the cone:

http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... &start=750

Remember: nothing is deleted, moved, edited or in anyway stifled.

Just for the record, there are SEVEN other Administrators: Jani, Claude, Pat, Jack, Joe, Corky and Vinzz. If they disagree with me or if someone wants to add more to this thread, ask them to unlock it. Maybe they will on their own?

Personally, I just think enough is enough.