ISSA - International Slalom Skateboarding Association

Greetings to all...
This "slalom" event/thingey is so cool!
As someone who lives in the styx and has to slalom solo all the time, this format opens up a whole new world.
Have to admit though that I'm one of the dummy's who skipped these threads due to the name....It should be settled.
I'm going straight out now to set up the tight course and look forward to pushing it and comparing times.
I am not sure exactly where to post the times, so if someone could enlighten me it would be appreciated
Once again thanks

another great idea would be to start a permanent 100 cones cyber challenge,

-> and i offer to moderate this
(here or on Riderz actually, first offer !)

Mathias Puentedura wrote:I m with you!

You're ahead of me

I m with you!

Mathias Puentedura wrote:but, it is skateboarding

So let's urge mr S to setup the rules so that we can do our first Trap session !
i bet you'll get faster than me, Kroman !

but, it is skateboarding

Steve Michael wrote:I'll outline the very specific (and very SIMPLE) rules in another forum on this site: Competition Rules: "The Trap"

This will be fun,
however this is not slalom, or is it ?

Jani Soderhall wrote: Is that easy enough for you?

maybe i had read that post a bit fast (i thought it was elsewhere on the net)

Here you go Etienne:

viewtopic.php?t=1999

Is that easy enough for you?

/Jani

Steve Michael wrote:I'll outline the very specific (and very SIMPLE) rules in another forum on this site: Competition Rules: "The Trap"

Not a URL link ?

I, like Michael D. have read the posts recently about the EuroCyberSlalom (ECS). Interesting concept! I agree that ECS is more an excersize in consistency and speed maintenence than accelleration and strength with the ACS.

In either case, they're both competitions that individuals can enter & participate without having to travel, with very specific rules to keep things as equal as they can be from site-to-site.

I post on both sites, and I'm currently working on establishing an International Standard type of individual competition:

Flat-land Un-assisted Self-propelled Skateboard Maximum Velocity (in MPH, but convertable to KPH).

I'll outline the very specific (and very SIMPLE) rules in another forum on this site: Competition Rules: "The Trap"

It's still in it's development stage, but what we've got so far is pretty cool. Thanks go to 70's skate legends C.Chaput and Chris Yandall for helping me to work out the bugs and "discuss" all the altenatives.

In the end, I hope "The Trap" will answer the question:

"How fast can you get that skateboard going on your own power?"

See y'all at "The Trap".

-=S=-

Oh, ... here in Europe we think People who live on the american continent are "Americans", (some "North Americans", some "South Americans", some of the north american "USians" some canadians, as "USians" sounds quite like a politically correct barbarism, and we like nasty barbarisms better than PC barbarisms, we say "americain des Etats-Unis" more often - sometimes we forget to specify "des Etats-Unis", but we know we sould, (not that there is anything wrong with that )-). From this point of view "American Person" should apply to you, shouldn't it ?

Just meant to say you invented the "French" Cyber not just from scratch, but as the essence of the previous cyber you had experienced.

Pour les planches : super !
Long live Kebbek, "Je vous ai compris" !

etienne de Bary wrote:The Riderz style "French" Cyberslalom was actually created by an american person and an experienced NCDSA Cyberslalom participant (hope this does not sound too strangely politically correct ), his proposition was a success because it is simple, fun, consistant and competitive

Hi Etienne, I (longboardeur, my avatar on Riderz) started the riderz cyber slalom but I'm not an American, I'm Canadian! (not that there is anything wrong with that )

By the way we will make more kebbek slalom boards soon...

original rules are to be found here
http://www.riderz.net/viewtopic.php?t=2918
This is also where you will post your time.
I must have posted them somewhere on this forum too...
Basically a flat ground no wind... 40 cones in line at 1m80 (centerset) unlimited pushing (on flat) time goes from the first cone to the last cone. (ideally tapeswitches or a pal who rides along with timer in hand, timing yourself with a hand-timer is a handicap)
Every cone down or off line=1/10th of second penalty, more than six down=DQ (this has been renegociated/clarified recently)
If you can't find a flat spot or if the wind blows you make an average of one way and other way.
You may push as long as you wish and start pumping before the cones too, but 40 cones is a long way to go so don't use all your forces before...
beginners-slalomers will do times in the 15" to 17" range, times under 10" are excellent, under 9" some of the best.
You may use your real name as pseudo if you wish to when you subscribe to riderz.net, you may post in english
looking forward to read your time !

Hi Etienne,
Can you tell me what the French Cyber rules are? I might as well do it while I am in France! I am living at 1650m so I wonder how that will affect my times... Apart from the fact that skating up here is hard work!

tod oles wrote:With metric spacing it just seems more "international". Different for the sake of being different??

Well metric does actually make it international, as we can't find tools in feet to mark the ground and we have to do all kinds of conversions as everybody just want to start having fun... The last time we did a NCDSA cyber session here in Paris we had lots of fun, made terrible times and DQed almost all the times. Very funny though. But maybe more useful to optimise the pushing than the pumping. Somewhat a difficult specific discipline requiring a long learning not very strongly related to slalom racing...
However, back home i check everything and of course we had played with a start box 5cm too big, etc. so i did not post any (terrible) times.

tod oles wrote:As such this course would differentiate SS.com from what the community at ncdsa has successfully established.

Certainly a good thing in itself
If you like to know: NCDSA is rather alien unfriendly, not just because some conservative male isolationist heroes are there, but try to enter into a conversation between 111.524.666.556 from Dakota who signs "T" about "JK" havin jerked saturday and (two pages later) JK saying " " made a false start or has a big butt...

the Riderz style "French" Cyberslalom was actually created by an american person and an experienced NCDSA Cyberslalom participant (hope this does not sound too strangely politically correct ), his proposition was a success because it is simple, fun, consistant and competitive: If you can pump you can do it. Means you will do times revealing fairly your racer's skill as soon as the first session. Then you will generally improve from one session to the next, because you will actually get better.
Because it concentrates on the core slalom skill, that cyberslalom is a serious complement or alt to the worldwide ranking, i mean it.

When you see your times lists after a session it says it all: sometimes you can do 3 or 4 times exactly the same result, you will not improve a 1000th of second your time if you don't improve your pumping technique or your set-up.

However, we need diversity: what about starting here a difficult unlimited push 40 cones 1m60 moderated by Vlad or John, and a 2m athletic one maderated by Richie Carrasco or Kenny ? That would make sense.

It's elementary, Watson! I'll be stationed in Europe.

Vlad, Why will you not be attending any US races this year? You got something against us gringos?

Vlad,

All sounds good. 5.5ft, 15ft push is a groove.

Your French Cyber times are lightning fast. Some personal issues may keep me from racing overseas until after July. If there is a way, I will be at Paris but it does not look promising right now.

Michael

<b>Michael</b>,
How about 36 cones at 5.5 ft? Let’s not even think metric anymore. No one is doing it.

Cone penalties are fine with me. 0.1 sec?

Timing: first to last cone. It’ll save some distance…
Push in distance… same 15 ft?

PS. I’m not going to attend any US races this season.

<b>Corky</b>, what you propose is cool, and I can’t deny it’d be easier for most people. But I don’t think it’ll change anything. Except that everyone’s times will be better.

One push (9.1), three pushes (8.2), four pushes+2 feet (8.0)…same torture, same low-end exercise…the only difference is time.

I ran French Siber during lunch today. 8.02 sec + 5 cones down and 8.31 clean. No time to run the other way. So, not declaring nothing.
Two straight runs (pushing in hard, not going around cones) yielded 9.1 and 9.3 sec. Thus, going around the cones is significantly faster. The difference is in the second half of the course.

Too bad we lost our Cyber Spot last year. Outdoors is 0.1-.2 sec slower even on a perfect surface. I’ll try 36-coneSiber next week.


__________________________
Sunday update.
(8.26 + .2+9.05)/2=8.755

Michael,

The 15ft start from the cyber slalom is ok for getting 3 good pushes if you are quick and strong. I have a hard time getting my 3 good pushes. For a beginner even to get 2. It seems like the weaker you are the more it punish you. Like it wasn't punish enough being a slower slalomer from the beginning. My idea (3 pushes period) will not help the quick and stronger skaters but it would help all the others. Most important no one loose.

Actually the more I think about it the better it gets.

Michael Dong wrote: So lets get this 36 cone thing started so we can add some variety.

I'll second this motion. For everyones safety I skate alone so I need variety:-)

Pushing into the course makes this more of an exercise in retaining speed than powering up to speed. With metric spacing it just seems more "international". Different for the sake of being different??

As such this course would differentiate SS.com from what the community at ncdsa has successfully established.

Just my thoughts as a newbie, The rain is washing my cyber course as I write. Can't wait for clean, saltless pavement!!

Hi Corky,

With NCDSA cyberslalom, the timer starts 15ft from the first cone and the timer starts when you cross the line and your push foot has to be within a 3 by 3ft box bordered by the start line.

In the end, for push or ramps starts, and even running the cones, there will always be an advantage for strength and fitness.

With ramp starts if you have an explosive pull off of the handles with alot of strength behind it, you will be faster. If you are a good transition pumper, a strong explosive pump will help. If you get 2 quick pumps in off of the bottom of the ramp like LUCA, you will be faster.

With push starts, an explosive set of pushes will make you faster than the guy who is not so gifted. But, setting the number of pushes may even things out...a little. Interesting idea.

About cyber start rules. Why do we always have to decide a certain start distance? It will always fit some better than others. I have always wondered if it couldn't work better just saying 4 pushes. That would fit everyone whether you are a fast or slow pusher, you have really strong legs or not, you are a beginner or pro. If everybody got time to do their 4 pushes I think the "start speed window" would be more equal. More like a start ramp. And then it would give more importance to pumping the slalom course well instead of, as now, where it's all about who is the best pusher.

The ISSA rules are currently on www.pcpal.se/issa .
I'll move them over this site when I can find the time.

/Jani

ed note: Thank you Jani. I have had many people contact me for the ISSA rules, that they are hard to find. Since we have a lot of ISSA in www.slalomskateboarder.com I think it would be appropriate to have an easy to find set of rules here. adam

Is this the distance for ISSA tight? I gotta go find those rules somewhere.

Hi Vlad,

I've been lurking but not skating too much lately. Looks like my old parking garage location for cyberslalom may be off limits for a while (new security guards) so I am looking for other spots.

So lets get this 36 cone thing started so we can add some variety. I guess the questions remaining will be push start distance, location of timer start and stops, and cone spacing (should we go metric on everything?)

If metric then lets choose distances where its easy to convert to ft and inches.

Push start distance - should it be 8 meters? Less? More?
Location of timer start and stop - at first and last cone centers?
Cone spacing - should be go metric at 1.7m and use 5ft 7" (very small error).
Cone penalties - clean runs only?

Also are you going to make it to the cyber cup this year? It really motivated me to skate hard last year when you were pushing me so hard on the cyber - a lot more fun that way.

Hope all is well,

Michael

Vlad,
Thanks for the reply. I haven't really messed to much w/ different spring
preload front to back.

I've been "going" to order weaker springs for the front for awhile now as
I lift the front wheels off the ground side to side in the first 3-4 cones when I do 25 cone Cyber Torture. Your advice will be put to use when the sun shows up again. Thanks Tod

Unlike the 25-cone limited-push-distance slalom, this is more of a high-speed-push wiggling exercise. The 25-cone course calls for wider, looser trucks for strong low-end pumping. The French Siber SL needs a mid-range set up. More or less dead rear end and a loose front end. I ran 30 degrees in the back (can be 25 or 35 depending on the bushing/spring hardness) moderately tight, and 60 degrees in the front, super loose. The first 20 cones is just wiggling. The entrance speed determines the outcome. Whoever can push stronger and wiggle madly will win. Short wheelbase and harder durrometer wheels are preferred. I liked a 17-inch wheelbase, or something very close to it with 90A (as an average) wheel durrometer. At these speeds flex is not as important as the PlankkR image.

Wait for low 8s on this course.

I want to try the original SiberSL with 36 cones at 5.5 ft (timed between the first and the last cone) and 100 cones at 5.5. ft next. But this is something to do for now to keep in shape before the BIGGEST WORLD SLALOM SEASON in years (if not ever)!

Let’s do it, Dong?

Vladmaster,

Are you running your plank thru this course? What compromise of wheelbase and steering angle are you using?
I ran this course for about an hour on a S-camber(21in axle-axle) w/105 seismics/80a/avalons(these wheels were fastest).I tried running different angles up front but it didn't really make much difference my times were 9.2-9.4sec. I know more practice will obviously help. I'm just curious if I'm
close to others in regards to equipment being used to run this course.

Thanks for your time, Tod

Slappy and I went to RFK racetrack today and took a couple of French runs. We ended up with 8.88 seconds as a both-way average with 3 cones down.

It's really very different from the original Canadian version really. Gilmour and Luca should do very well here.

I like the 25-cone torture better. It's just more of an exercise then this crazy pushing in and wigling. I had to start pumping hard only in the last 10-15 cones. 8.5's and lower is no problemo. Two way avarage seems more fair.

Hey, Michael, i'm glad you finally decided to post a time at that "cone processing" cyber slalom, i started it on riderz.net for that purpose (and to be different from the other website's cyber slalom) i still think it's a good training and it's more fun!!

I'm pretty sure you'll beat my time quickly,
[longboardeur: 8,90, no cones]

Try to register, if not I can submit your time too.

Maybe we should ask Jani to share the scoreboard here as well...

great time (of course), too bad you couldn't post it, if you want me to, i can do the inscription stuff for you so that you can easily post afterward. Do me a PM !

I tried the french cyber tonight (40 cone, 1.8meters on center). I got in about 5 to 6 pushes over about a 15 to 20 meter push start. Like the regular cyberslalom it is very physically demanding but maybe even more so. 5 full runs was all I could manage before getting really tired. This is my second time on my slalom board since Morro Bay.

Best run was a 9.341 with 3 cones down.

I couldn't navigate the french site well enough to get a password and post a message.

Very challenging.

Michael,

On the Riderz forum you add a new post to the topic and the administrator copies the information into the first post in the list. The same way as for the Contest Calendar 2004 here.

/Jani

Etienne,

How are times posted on riderz? Do we just email you our times? I never knew this was also done on flat ground. It sounds fun so I'd like to give it a try.

thanks,

Michael

Very good idea. I have had the same thoughts a very long time to try and have one place where you can see all the different "cyber" versions that exists with links to rules and result lists.

Who wants to take on the work? I'm a little bit busy myself with other things for the moment. Anyone interested in cyber slalom, have no family, love coding html and are just sitting empty-handed in front of the TV in the evenings?

Can someone work up a "Virtual Slalom©" page in html which slalomskateboarder.com can host so we can post times and update them on the site here?

Since our timing software have a speedtrap option, perhaps we should have a 'highest pushing speed competition' as well... (on flat ground of course). Do you think you can reach 30 km/h?

While I'm off topic I migth as well ask how many of you have got bored during a cyberslalom session and instead of skating the course have run the course (skipping the cones), and what time you got. I know we did that last year and I think we got times in the upper 6-lower 7 seconds. The hardest part is to hit the tapeswitch at the goal...

Vlad Popov wrote:What if I decide to be a Chaput about it and find a long enough stretch of flatland between two hills, so that the more-or-less flat 40-cone course is taken at 25 MPH, or 40 KmPH, in both directions?

the 'long enough' is allowed, but the 'hills' are forbidden. Can you push to 40km/h ?
You may start pumping before the cones if you want to.

Thanks!
We'll try it both ways then. Inline skates too. Snow-b-gun!

Last year the EC US had marvelous snowboard carving conditions. This year's even better. So, "better then excellent" is understood

I only tried it once and from what I recall we did something like 4-5 pushes. Somebody had measured up a distance, but I don't remember all that well. I remember that I was quite proud of the speed I had going through that course and I was disappointed to see that others had done better than me. Hmm, maybe they did unlimited push start. By the way, the surface at the spot was better than excellent.

Never mind. I'm in the list and I'll try to improve next time. Unlimited push start will not give you that much more speed, unless you push down a hill and the course is on the flat bottom. For pushing there is probable some kind of "golden maximum" at 6 or 7 pushes. I haven't pushed that hard in a long time.

/Jani

Jani, what rules did you use?

I don't remember it being unlimited push when I set my time...

What if I decide to be a Chaput about it and find a long enough stretch of flatland between two hills, so that the more-or-less flat 40-cone course is taken at 25 MPH, or 40 KmPH, in both directions?

OK: unlimited pushing
- on flat (you do an average of both ways if you are not 100% sure it's flat, if there is wind...)
- 40 cones in straight line every 1m80 (not edge to edge but center to center, trace a line every 1m80, then you put the cones on, then trace circles around the cones). Cones are Turners or Seismics, or actually cones of the same diameter.
- the time tells how long it takes to go from the first cone to the last one, if you use ground tape timing, tapes go from right under the first cone (on one side) and from right under the last cone (on the other side) (conventionally we take the first cone by the right) perpendicular to the cones line
- every cone down or off circle line will be counted 1/10th of second added

A rule limiting the number of cones down was proposed first, but was never applied as it would be uselessly discouraging for beginners, and i consider and propose it should be regarded as obsolete.

a beginner should do times around 16 seconds, only excellent racers go under10
There is 4 skateboard times under 10" now (Sebalaf time is in-line rollerskate)
http://www.riderz.net/viewtopic.php?t=2918&start=0

that's it, isn't it ?

times should be posted at the end of that same topic, usually there is a bit of telling about circomstances (no language rules, i guess, but if you have a bit of french you may use it, if it's not too academic it's actually even better),
-> it is requested to describe precisely the equipment used

and last: only mention new times when they are better than your previous times...

Thanks for posting the rules (in English!), Etienne. As soon as the snow's gone....

Unlimited push? How fast can you say GILMOUR?

Marcus Seyffarth wrote:it says that you can hit max 4 cones and that you get .1 sec added time for each, but then it also says that the run doesn't count if you hit a cone.

The penalty for pushing out or down a cone in the Riderz cyberslalom is 1/10th of second, the rule proposition to establish a max cone down was never applied. The penalty appeared to be dissuasive enough, and there is no need to blame beginners.
The rules may seem somewhat unprecise because the results table remains in one of the first posts of the topic.
It is pretty simple really, 40 cones by 1m80 (center of cone circle), unlimited pushing, if you have any reason to suspect one way is faster, you do an average of both. Timing from 1st cone to last cone. Use of Jani's ground tape chrono showed that previous hand timings were probably often a bit optimistic.

Now that i think of it, i'd like to invite the skaters who showed up at the Trocadero World Cup very particularly to post a time, ... and those who missed it too as a matter of fact ... (it would be cool to compare with Jani's and other top europeans')

especially VLAD !

this seems cool! we'll give it a go!

One question though, it says that you can hit max 4 cones and that you get .1 sec added time for each, but then it also says that the run doesn't count if you hit a cone. Which way is it?

the Riderz.net forum has an active cyberslalom (called cyberslalom if i'm not mistaking)
unlimited pushing and 40 cones at 1,80m
there is quite a bit of impressing times posted now, this is not as much fun as the NCDSA (but maybe we should have taken it seriously...), 40 cones is a long way to go, so time differences are obvious and pushing technique does not make all the difference, however i noticed that good riders push faster
if you are excellent you will add your name to the 5 guys under 10"
http://www.riderz.net/viewtopic.php?t=2 ... highlight=