Travelling timer kit needed

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Eddy Martinez
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Post by Eddy Martinez » Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:36 pm

I KNOW IN THE PAST THERE HAD BEEN TALK OF A KIT. BUT TRULY WE NEED A KIT MOSTLY WITH A TRAVELING TIMING SYSTEM. TRAVELING FROM USA CONTEST TO CONTEST THROUGHOUT THE YEAR. THE MONEY FOR THIS WOULD BE OBTAINED FROM THE ISSA DUES. DUES ARE A MUST. WHY ?. NO ONE IS GOING TO GIVE THE SPORT OF SLALOM MONEY. IF THEY WOULD. THAT TIME HAS PASSED. IT HAS TO COME FROM THE RACERS WHO SUPPORT THE SPORT. MOST SKATERS ARE DISALUSSIONED WITH THE SPORT. MOST OF THE JOHNNY COME LATELYS HAVE VANISHED FROM THE SCENE. THERE WAS NOTHING FOR THEM AND THEY LEFT. AND SOME SHADY DEALS THAT ALSO DID NOT GO WELL. THIS CAUSED A FEW MEMBERS TO JUST WALK AWAY. MY 2 CENTS. YOUR AMIGO EDDY TEXAS OUTLAWS. NO DUES. NO RANKING.

Pat Chewning
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Post by Pat Chewning » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:00 am

Eddy Martinez wrote:I KNOW IN THE PAST THERE HAD BEEN TALK OF A KIT. BUT TRULY WE NEED A KIT MOSTLY WITH A TRAVELING TIMING SYSTEM. TRAVELING FROM USA CONTEST TO CONTEST THROUGHOUT THE YEAR. THE MONEY FOR THIS WOULD BE OBTAINED FROM THE ISSA DUES.
I volunteered last year (early in 2010) to put together the travelling timer kit for the USA and make it available to the ISSA for shipping to various contests and people who want to try it out.

The BOD decided that the shipping costs and logistics were too difficult to administer, so the ISSA traveling timing system idea was abandoned.

Jani Soderhall
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Post by Jani Soderhall » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:11 am

It's those damned cables that cause the problem. The rest would easily fit into a small package and could be shipped easily. Tapeswitches could be rolled up without harm.

Luckily Trackmates are available at a reasonable price, so all regular organizers should be able to invest in one and get the whole cabling set needed. If there is still a need we could make a travelling timer kit without cables. But would that be enough of a help? In Europe most countries now have 1-2 timers, and people are easily sharing them, so the scene here seems to be covered.

/Jani

Stephen Lavin
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Post by Stephen Lavin » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:28 pm

Are there any effective wireless designs? Not my area but thought I'd ask. Every event that I have seen timing trouble at involved the wires. To Jani's point they are heavy and take up a lot of volume as well. Besides you really need two timing systems at the higher sanctioned events IMO; one active one spare.
LAVIN

Rob Ashby
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Post by Rob Ashby » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:33 pm

We have tried out wireless systems but found them too unreliable - especially if there were kids using remote control cars, planes etc. in the park! Too much interference.

Jani Soderhall
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Post by Jani Soderhall » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:45 pm

Stephen Lavin wrote:Besides you really need two timing systems at the higher sanctioned events IMO; one active one spare.
Absolutely, no need spares for all parts: Timer, cables and tape switches. Things do break. The timer itself is probably the least problem - it only runs out of batteries, but who knows, it could fall down from the table too! Tapeswitches typically break one per race. Easy to repair, but not while you're at the race and everones waiting. Always bring 1-2 spares, and make sure you put the new one in the exact position of the previous one. Mark the position while you put up the first one!

Probably someone is ready to carry an extra timer to your race. It's not heavy. Maybe we should make a list of who owns a timer, so you know who to ask.

/Jani

John Gilmour
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Post by John Gilmour » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:24 am

WEll some of the timer problems IMHO are the quality (durability) of the timer system parts.

The wires suffer because some people use single stranded ie SOLID bell wire...which can break from repeated bending... this is decedent from Telephone systems where the wire is laid once and left ..and solid wire is not as susceptible to corrosion.. but is not made to be spooled and unspooled many times without failure. It is probably the worst choice for our uses.

Best to use AFAIK would be microphone cable- mostly because it is made to be flexible (at all temps) and durable and rarely/never suffers intermittent issues.. Like how much would it suck if Roger Daltry swung his Mic at a who concert and you got a 60 cycle hum through a who convert PA?

Also the timer pressure strips... as wheels hit them the strips get "impressioned" into the open spaces in the pavement.

So on rougher pavement...though the strip may appear "intact" on the outside.. inside it is being dented and reformed many times as skaters roll over it until it fails.

BUT - these pressure strips if properly deployed should not fail and are usable for very long "duty cycles"... so what needs to be done is to create a smooth firm relatively Inflexible backing under the strip and perhaps ...if it would not affect the sensitivity of hte strip excessively.... something atop the strip also to reduce the creation of a permanent bend by the hard edge lip of a wheel.

Placing a timing strip directly at the last cone is a bad idea because... you could be turning on the strip which..introduces lateral stress which the strip is not meant to take either.

Perhaps what we need to do is to fabricate strips for our purposes.

But in a non perfect world we can make minor modifications to the existing strips to make them more reliable and durable.

As far a as a timer falling off a table... a strip of duct tape plastering it to the table would be a good idea..and the connectors used... well those should be readily available and of the "tear away variety" like a simple 1/4 inch audio jack, that way if someone stumbles on them- they would unplug instead of break- or sending the timer flying.

I am not married to the idea of 1/4 inch jacks.. but they are available at any Radio Shack or guitar center, recording studio, or you could find and ancient switchboard...where they unplugged and replugged these things in thousands of times...... for intercoms...and telephone switchboards....

Like if you say "the Changling" with Angelia Jolie... she worked as a switchboard manager for a telephone company.

It's just PROVEN to be durable...and nearly impervious to wear.. the building I grew up in in Manhattan... used the EXACT same Switchboard to ring up apartments for over 50 years.... with hundreds of calls made per day.

That would take care of the parts of the system that have the smallest mean times between failure.

http://www.mogamicable.com/category/bul ... ne/stereo/

Here is one for instance.. all we need is someone in the music business to sell it to us at cost.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour

Jani Soderhall
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Timing equipment damage

Post by Jani Soderhall » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:19 am

John,

Here's the problems I typically encounter:

1.
The single biggest worry is that someone just pulls up the timing strip from the ground by pulling in the cable and not detaching the tape first.

2.
The second biggest worry is that someone runs over the cable rather than the tapeswitch thinking it's better to avoid the switch, and then the cable gets caught in the truck.

3.
The cable gets squeezed under a barrier (you know the one the police provides us with at some EU races) or under a chair (especially after a rocking chair movement, by one of the cone judges).

/Jani

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:24 am

Eddy is this a need for your own races, or more of a general thought to make it easier to put on races?

/Jani

Rob Ashby
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Post by Rob Ashby » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:17 am

Michael bought some "Mil-Spec" shielded twisted pair cable from "that auction site" which does the trick and it is very durable - its the sort of thing the army use for running field telephones etc. I'm sure he would be happy to give more information on the timing gear we use.

Rick Stanziale
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Post by Rick Stanziale » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:09 pm

Whatever happened to the Radikal Ramp Trailer?

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:21 pm

Rick Stanziale wrote:Whatever happened to the Radikal Ramp Trailer?
Last I heard it's sitting in a storage shed somewhere near Morro Bay. I think Jack said Stan Strocher or Adrian Pina has it.
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Glenn Bukowsky
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Post by Glenn Bukowsky » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:09 pm

Eddy is this a need for your own races, or more of a general thought to make it easier to put on races?

/Jani
Jani, having talked with Eddy on this previous to his post, I'm almost positive it's a general statement to help encourage the number of races here in the States.

Glenn
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Erik Basil
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Post by Erik Basil » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:16 pm

Why don't you fellas see if Chris Chaput will sell ISSA his turn-key system? Timer, LED boards, etc...
I ride fast boards, slowly.

John Gilmour
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Re: Timing equipment damage

Post by John Gilmour » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:27 am

Jani Soderhall wrote:John,

Here's the problems I typically encounter:

1.
The single biggest worry is that someone just pulls up the timing strip from the ground by pulling in the cable and not detaching the tape first.


2.
The second biggest worry is that someone runs over the cable rather than the tapeswitch thinking it's better to avoid the switch, and then the cable gets caught in the truck.

3.
The cable gets squeezed under a barrier (you know the one the police provides us with at some EU races) or under a chair (especially after a rocking chair movement, by one of the cone judges).

/Jani
1. Detachable cables would just unplug instead of severing them.
2. Cables just need to be taped down but not with duct tape- instead with gaffers tape.
3. Reusable zip ties can keep them elevated..again mic wire is pretty impervious to damage.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour

Eddy Martinez
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Post by Eddy Martinez » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:02 pm

Glenn is right. General would be the answer. Ricky Byrd has lent us his timing system in the past as a backup. Timing switches and cables were are problems last year. The backup timing wireless from TrakMate did not work worth a dam. Both of my system should be operational by the time the Texas Sizzler rolls around. Just a thought. Stir the pot old boys. Keep em coming. Ideas that is. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws.

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Lynn Kramer
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Post by Lynn Kramer » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:02 am

Marcus Rietema has a timing system. It is wireless. I don't know if it is 2 lanes or not, but it is legit. I've never seen it have a problem once it was set up. It costs about $3000. 100 racers at $20 is $2000, still not enough. It's not going to come from dues. It's going to come from somebody who is rich and bored.
Erik has been working with some affordable radio controls, but the range of the affordable ones are still not far enough.
No, we need to maybe approach a ski area at the end of the season and see what they do with their timers when they are old. Maybe that would be an option.
My biggest problem seems to be cheap components. Phone jacks coming out, couplers that are no good. The tapeswitches are reliable. When they "break" and give an always-on signal, you just bend them back and then flat and they work again. Very pliable. I've only retired one in like 7 years.
Lynn

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Post by Erik Basil » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:36 pm

Marcus'/IGSA's system is a Tag Heuer timer, set up for one lane. It uses a cable connection between the top and bottom and has a diagnostic feature to help with the occasional glitch. The trigger at the finish is optical, like the door at a 7/11, and is very good.
I ride fast boards, slowly.

David Graves-Witherell
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Time Traveling Kit Needed?

Post by David Graves-Witherell » Thu Mar 17, 2011 9:42 pm

That's why I still skate. I'm 14 years old again.

Oh... never mind. I just misread the post heading.

Too bad. I think we could use a time traveling kit too!

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Post by Rick Floyd » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:32 am

Eddy Martinez wrote:Glenn is right. General would be the answer. Ricky Byrd has lent us his timing system in the past as a backup. Timing switches and cables were are problems last year. The backup timing wireless from TrakMate did not work worth a dam. Both of my system should be operational by the time the Texas Sizzler rolls around. Just a thought. Stir the pot old boys. Keep em coming. Ideas that is. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws.

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What a cool photo! ;-)
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Lynn Kramer
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Post by Lynn Kramer » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:47 am

Erik (my Erik, not Basil) has fixed our two dual lane beeper timers. We are going to test them tomorrow. They use CAT 5 network cable with standard ends. If anybody needs a timer, just give me free entry fee and I'll bring the kit, minus the cable. You need to buy that, unless I can drive.
The problem we had with the "talking lanes" seems to be fixed.
I rented out my old system and it came back a little worse for wear. Not to blame the guys who used it, but skaters have a different level of "care" than most people.
Lynn

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