Couldn't we race on wet ?

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Vincent Tanguy
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Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Vincent Tanguy » Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:42 pm

Hello everybody,

after what happened in the latest big races in Europe, I wanted to share some thoughts and have your opinions on this issue : don't you think we could just put some rain wheels on our skateboards, like formula 1's do, and be able to race on a wet pavement ? We know that rain wheels exist, they do improve the grip on wet surfaces, they'd be even more efficent with some work on the geometry of these wheels, perhaps even good enough to give us something correct and better than a backup plan (hard to find and not always satisfying).

Don't you think ?
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Mark Keller
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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Mark Keller » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:12 am

Can be done. viewtopic.php?f=181&t=6160

Depends on the road surface. I nominate you to take the first run to test the surface ;)

Jani Soderhall
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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Jani Soderhall » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:34 am

Is it worth it?

Would you want to win under such circumstances?
It is it worth taking the chance or sliding out on such an uncertain surface?


I've given up the thought many times, but in a way, yes it would be good if it was doable, and the appropriate equipment was developed. But just think about going down the startramp with wet wheels and how dangerous that would be.

I know the Italians used to do it back in the 80's.

/Jani

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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Richy Carrasco » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:38 pm

At Major Events where Pro riders attend most of the championships throughout the world, Pro division Mens and Womens should race first and Finish. I have been to many races that pros finish last and alot of times rain comes, also when the tv and news crews are there they usually leave before the finals. This would also be a rewarded priority to all racers to want to race in these divisions and also post up times that the other divisions could shoot for. I know the kids division is super important , but the pros are the ones really supporting the scene by spending alot of money on travel to attend most of these races.

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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Jani Soderhall » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:51 am

Richy,

I fully agree with your slightly off-topic post on priority of racing.

/Jani

Claude Regnier
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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Claude Regnier » Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:37 am

I have raced in the rain and it is not very much fun nor is it safe. If there was good traction gear available it may at least be fun!

Other then getting the event completed I don't think it would be any good for anything however!!!
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Vincent Tanguy
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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Vincent Tanguy » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:56 pm

Claude Regnier wrote: Other then getting the event completed I don't think it would be any good for anything however!!!
That's exactly the conditions I had in mind when starting this thread.
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Wesley Tucker
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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Wesley Tucker » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:03 pm

Another problem that's overlooked with skateboard slalom racing in wet conditions.

I would say probably 90% if not more of all races uses TrakMate and tape switches for timing.

There is no adequate tape solution for keeping tapes on the deck with wet asphalt or concrete.

Also, even infrared systems can be a pain when trying to operate them in wet conditions. Too many leaves blowing around can fool an IR system much less steadily falling water and other debris when it's raining.

There's a LOT of problems to overcome to make rain racing competitive OR it can just be baseball: don't play in the rain.
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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Neil Orta » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:49 am

Way back (pre 2001) at our downhill races it was comon place for speedboard to NOT race when it was raining. Problem was the racers wanted their money back because they were not racing, an organizer puts out lots of money to put a race on and they do not get refunds because of rain (ie insurance, road permits, ports johns etc.). As previously stated there cannot always be an option to move indoors. My opinion is to set a course that is suitable for the conditions and race on (if a rain day is not possible). If a racer decides it is not safe enough to compete they can concede any placing and forfeit. And yes I am one that would rather walk away and not compete (though I have run cones in the rain....I am too competitive and would push beyond my abilities risking injury in a competition- not worth it to me)

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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by John Gilmour » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:56 pm

I think we should have ice hockey in rinks without ice but still use ice skates. It would show more highly trained skater skills. Defensive hockey players would have to skate backwards on rocks.

We could also have fencing competitions without armor using real swords...it s still a sport, just with more real wold danger.

We could also hold skydiving competitions without reserve chutes.

How about hosting Pikes Peak uphill road race on icy roads.

You wanna skate in the rain ?... Have a slide competition without cones.

Or do it without a skateboard in bare feet.

But urethane and rain, don't really mix, its been done before, (In West Virginia) lets not do it again.
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Jeremy Coffman
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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Jeremy Coffman » Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:45 pm

I just skated in a race on wet pavement. It was a challenge. Besides the lack of traction, I ended up on my ass on my first test run, biggest issue was getting the timing system down. We were using TrakMate system. As Wesley pointed out you can't tape the strips down on a wet surface. We had to use a propane torch to dry the pavement enough to get the tape to stick. If it had been raining at the time even that would not have worked. The racing was sloppy but not as many wipe outs as I was expecting. You had to stay on top of your game.

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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Stephen Lavin » Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:00 am

To John's point.... I don't care how stoned or wasted I am, I'm NOT skating in the rain or wet. Hurts too much.
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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by nick sable » Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:02 pm

that was our wet race here in australia for the conehead cup, i raced in it, the road we used was a very smooth tight pack asphalt, it was unreal how the wheels still gripped,your head said whoa!,while your board was was going gogogogo!!!!

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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by John Gilmour » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:55 pm

For those promoters that held races in the rain and lucked out... Kudos to you . You lucked out.

IMHO I certainly think the decision to race in the rain is a bad call. Ever if the surface has better traction when wet... ( you will see why at the end).

Our Aussie brothers in their far south portion of their country....statistically were less at risk, as you will see from the link which contains a map at the end of this post.


In regards to the race promoter and his legal exposure a decision to continue to race under conditions that add to the likelihood of injury in regards to a skater or spectator being hurt... Not good. We have electricity at some races as well. If this was a swim meet... Or a running marathon at lower speeds ... Ok. But it is a race normally run on dry pavement

Here is a scenario. Last big race of a season. Several skaters close in points wanting to win. Rain. Some skaters say they will race, the ones that would prefer not to race in the rain ... Do race... Because otherwise they are forced to lose - it is not technically coercion , but they race under conditions that are less safe.

You have an accident either on or off the course at the race site an accident that may not or may not have been made more likely because of rain... But legally can be attributed to the increased risk of rain.

We have a possible lawsuit.

Now, in a sport whose main focus is AVOIDING IMPACT WITH THINGS at speed and OPTIMIZING ALL POSSIBLE TRACTION FROM A SURFACE , historically we are amazingly very safe, without many ( if any at all... EVER) instances of colliding with spectators resulting in injury.

That "safe" history could work against a promoter In a court of law , as it would be easier to convince people that the rain caused loss of traction , and recovery from a skid -demonstrably- far less likely , and that the 6o lb girl spectator who was hit by a 180 lb skater 3 times her weight at 30 mph could have been avoided, and that the wet surface made it hard for her to dodge the skater... Or even that she had no room to move because other spectators around her were not moving quickly enough because the few spectators left were crammed under a few "easy - up" canopies. The skater slid further and lost less speed making the safe distance from the race course under dry conditions less safe. He might have been able to run left or right at the last minute to avoid hitting the girl but his sneakers did not grip well enough in the rain.

Ok, if posting this makes a promoter think twice about racing in the rain and prevents any scenario like the above from happening ... Great.

Accidents become more frequent and can have worse outcomes when judgement is reduced ( introducing a variable competitors do not have experience with ie running cones in the rain). And when you reduce the chance for fixing a misjudged turn... because fixing a skid in the rain is harder ...with much less time to correct it before it is at the point of "no return".

Lastly , certain skating styles would be more likely to skid in the rain, making the results less valid. Ironically the more dynamic skaters capable of extracting the most traction from dry pavement would be penalized the most.... Like I want to see Jason Mitchell extending and flexing like some insane iguana on red bull .... Not just skating stacked above his wheels going slower on rough wet pavement .

Why not have kite flying contests in the rain? Or golf tournaments?

Well lets see.... Skaters on a hill at the tallest point + metal easy- up over the timer at top, do you guys have to watch "caddy shack" or learn about Ben Franklin to understand this? People who live in Florida know these risks all too well.

To quote MOGATU ( Will Ferrell's evil fashionista character from Zoolander.

" Is everyone here taking crazy pills"?


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Re: Couldn't we race on wet ?

Post by Jeremy Coffman » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:08 am

Even though I have done it my offricial stance on racing in the rain/wet surfaces is don't do it. Now as my post states, I ran a race on wet pavement but it wasn't my race. I'll take chances with myself but I do not wish to put others at risk. When I've put on races and it has rained I've called off the race. Racer safety is more important than points. Does it suck to pay to travel and enter races only to have them cancelled? Hell yeah it sucks. But it sucks more to suffer needless, and possible serious, injuries just because I "paid to skate." It's all part of participating in outdoor sports. You're at the mercy of the weather.

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