New modular training ramps

Ricardo Damborenea · Post by **Ricardo Damborenea** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:31 am

Here's a little video on the modular training start ramps being built (holding bars, braces and final painting still WIP) by Javi & Keko in Spain. They fit into one box for easy transportation and storage, even in an average car. Even if modular, they are really strong. Design was done by Javier Navarro (our local artist) and Javier Labad (the architecht behind the best skateparks in Spain).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaZlpVBMjGE

Isn't this a clever solution or what?

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:51 pm

That is bad ass! Any chance you want to share the plans? Really nice solution there...

Jani Soderhall · Post by **Jani Soderhall** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:00 pm

Wow - that's really cool!

/Jani

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Sat May 01, 2010 5:51 am

All told, this is a pretty small ramp. Compared to the guy in the video, I estimated the base box of the ramp to be about 17-19" tall. Given that, I did some mock ups. My Chi+ill board is setup up on the shortest wheelbase. Contact point to contact point of the wheels measures 23.5"

When I put a board on the ramp- it doesn't appear that it would clear. I am really hoping you can get us some dimensions of the ramp in the video. That'd be awesome!

Ricardo Damborenea · Post by **Ricardo Damborenea** » Sat May 01, 2010 3:52 pm

Yes it's a small ramp. About 6 feet (1m) tall. Intended for everyday training (we have like +250 days/yr of no rain/snow in Madrid), not that much for competition. It's tried (17" to 21" wheel base), it works. Transitions were calculated by the guy building most skateparks in Spain. Tomorrow they will be tested HARD in our Outlawslalom. I'll Keep you posted....

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Sat May 01, 2010 4:32 pm

Ricardo Damborenea wrote:Yes it's a small ramp.

To be clear- I see this as a good thing! This ramp is the perfect size to fit in the back of my hatchback car. I can't wait to build one, I just can't quite get the transitions right. I'll keep working at it though.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Sat May 01, 2010 4:56 pm

Ricardo,

Everything is made clear in the video except one thing: how do you attach the four pieces together?

Stephen Lavin · Post by **Stephen Lavin** » Sat May 01, 2010 5:53 pm

Very simple and efficient design - impressive. Could likely scale up parts (larger dimensions) to fit if needed in same nested format. Drop-in (transition top) could easily be adjusted for a number of wheelbases (to Willy's point) if need be. a one-man build is very cool idea and easy to tote. I'm no ramp expert but do appreciate cool ideas.

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Sat May 01, 2010 8:23 pm

Wes- if (when) I make one, I would probably use the type of clamp/latch you see on a lot of professional road cases for music equipment- strong and recessed, like this:

...I am interested to hear how they did it though.

Ricardo Damborenea · Post by **Ricardo Damborenea** » Mon May 03, 2010 10:44 am

Here are the plans, courtesy of Javi

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23533001@N ... 3/sizes/l/

The mini-ramps were hard-tested yesterday by 21 riders in our Outlawslalom #5 and worked great!

Note: measures in Cm

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Mon May 03, 2010 1:10 pm

Thank you!!!

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Tue May 04, 2010 12:03 am

Guys, based on the dimensions supplied, I have laid out all of the pieces on standard 4' x 8' sheets. I was really hoping to be able to get all of the cuts out of 1 sheet, but discovered that it didn't appear possible. Here's the best I could achieve. Obviously my layout did not account for the saw kerf, but I think there is just enough extra room that it won't be an issue. Enjoy!

Pat Chewning · Post by **Pat Chewning** » Tue May 04, 2010 1:13 am

But it does look like you can get 2 ramps out of 3 sheets of ply....

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Tue May 04, 2010 1:26 am

Pat Chewning wrote:But it does look like you can get 2 ramps out of 3 sheets of ply....

Definitely.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Tue May 04, 2010 4:17 pm

Ricardo Damborenea wrote:Here are the plans, courtesy of Javi

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23533001@N ... 3/sizes/l/

The mini-ramps were hard-tested yesterday by 21 riders in our Outlawslalom #5 and worked great!

Note: measures in Cm

Ricardo,

Were pull bars added?

And how are the components fastened together?

Ricardo Damborenea · Post by **Ricardo Damborenea** » Tue May 04, 2010 6:26 pm

Pull bars were added to the sides. They are attached to the ramps by bolts and so are the different pieces attached together (so you need an electric screwdriver to put everything together. takes like 20min). Currently there is some discussion on how to redesign the pulling bars for riders not to "shake" the ramps (btw, "shaking" is similar to bigger ramps I've tried, so no major issue). "Shaking" currently solved as in other situtations by a fellow rider holding the ramp.

A photo to illustrate, courtesy of Myprofe (www.myprofe.com)

A little video, too

http://www.vimeo.com/11438163

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Tue May 04, 2010 7:59 pm

That is an awesome picture, Ricardo!

...you know, what we need here is a better clamping solution to hold the parts together. While the screws and "L" brackets probably worked fine, it'd be sweet if there was a quicker, more effortless way to hold the pieces together. You know... something like... this:

But where o' where could we source something like this??? Well- thanks for asking! How about:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#pull-clamps/=6y14cj or
http://www.steelsmith.co.in/pull_action ... clamps.htm

Not cheap though. Cheapest one at McMaster is $11.84. But now that we know something like this exists, perhaps ebay would yield a better price.

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Tue May 04, 2010 8:12 pm

Score. I just bought 10 of them for $3.50 each.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... EF:US:1123

Ricardo Damborenea · Post by **Ricardo Damborenea** » Tue May 04, 2010 9:58 pm

I think that's a great solution. I'm a disaster as a handy man, so I'll forward (with some translation into spanish

) your ideas to the real "home depot" champions, Javi & Keko. They are the men behind both the idea and the implementation. Thanks!

Btw: the photo shows the final run of our Outlawslalom #5. I'm the guy in front and the guy in the back is the one that beat me...by 0.1sec. 30 yrs of difference in experience between both lanes

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Tue May 04, 2010 10:24 pm

Off topic- How do you create a shot like that? Is it just a camera setting?

On topic- The only disadvantage to the clamps I found is that they wouldn't sit recessed. So depending on their height- they might not be able to be mounted on the outside of each ramp section. Omitting the upper base piece, there shouldn't be too much issue mounting the clamps on the inside. But with the upper base, there wouldn't be room on the inside or outside due to how that piece "fits" in the "compacted" state. Other than that, though- I think they should work pretty good.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Tue May 04, 2010 10:44 pm

willy demis wrote:Off topic- How do you create a shot like that? Is it just a camera setting?

Not to change the subject but it's done like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgAd5Gh7 ... 1&index=36

You need:

Camera with motor drive
tripod for perfect focus and repeatability
Adobe Photoshop

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:41 am

Some good progress this weekend. unfortunately, I had to take a moderate hiatus to finish wiring a basement for a friend, but I was able to get most of the way complete. All I have left to do is put on the masonite layer, a steel plate on the bottom (probably gonna go to the steel supply tomorrow morning), paint, and I suppose I need to figure something out for hand pulls.

As it turns out- those clamps I bought are not of the locking variety.

So as soon as pressure is on them, they just release. Not sure what I am going to do, but I am determine to find an economical, yet efficient, binding solution for all of the pieces.

I have to say thanks again to Ricardo for posting the plans. This has been a pretty fun ramp to plan and build! Enjoy the pics!

And the absolute most awesome part of the ramp- it fits in the trunk of my sub-compact hatchback!!

Jonathan Harms · Post by **Jonathan Harms** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:01 pm

Off topic: Is that a Protege5? I always loved that car's styling.

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:15 pm

Jonathan Harms wrote:Off topic: Is that a Protege5? I always loved that car's styling.

Good eye JBH! It is a Protege5, and it's a bad ass car. Rather slow and underpowered, but amazingly fun to drive. Mazda has always been good about designing really great "factory" suspensions and the pro5 was no exception. I've also put lowering springs, aftermarket stiffer struts, a heavier rear swaybar, custom swaybar mounts (that make the swaybar even more efficient), and heavier endlinks all the way around. The car handles like a dream. And it's incredibly utilitarian. I've hauled 800lbs of cement in the trunk, I can fit nearly endless 8' 2x4's inside along with 2 10' 2x4's. I've hauled countless sheets of 4x8 plywood on the roof. And with all the seats out, I've hauled an entire (though admittedly compact) 5 piece sectional couch; 3 pieces inside, and two on the roof. It is a fantastic car...

Jonathan Harms · Post by **Jonathan Harms** » Mon May 10, 2010 5:52 pm

Yup! Thought so. When it came time to send my 1990 323 to the great parking lot in the sky in early 2008, I was chagrined to learn that I couldn't just replace it with my new dream car, the Protege5, because the P5 simply was no more and had been supplanted by the Mazda3. The 3 is a very cool car in its own way, but the Protege5 just captivated me--like a hot girl next door who smiles at you in a special way.

I ended up with a Kia Spectra5 and like it just fine, but I must confess that whenever I see a well-kept Protege5 on the road (especially a black one), I still feel a longing that borders on lust...
[/threadjack]

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Wed May 12, 2010 4:19 am

Pretty much finished up the ramp tonight- at least enough for a test ride. I really dig it. But it's really scary for me (I've never ridden parks or anything) to go down without hand pulls, and especially with no rear wheel stop... But I'll get that stuff.

Posted a video too of some test runs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JigBuoEFi8c

Gary Saenz · Post by **Gary Saenz** » Wed May 12, 2010 3:55 pm

Willie,

What rear wedge is that you have on that deck? Haven't seen that one before.

Ricardo Damborenea · Post by **Ricardo Damborenea** » Wed May 12, 2010 3:55 pm

Hey! They look just like ours! Good job! Aren't they practical & smart or what?

We did put a couple of bars in the ramps to get impulse (and to hold yourself). You should definetely put them.

In this album you'll find some pics of the solution

http://picasaweb.google.es/dnothink/Out ... 2874452706

The designers are currently discussing an evolution of the handle bars to improve ramp stability.

We'll keep you posted

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Wed May 12, 2010 4:23 pm

Gary Saenz wrote:Willie,

What rear wedge is that you have on that deck? Haven't seen that one before.

I made it. It's made of poplar and solves the problem of needing "curved" hardware. Primarily designed by my buddy Peter Metzger and slightly tweaked by me.

Ricardo Damborenea wrote:Hey! They look just like ours! Good job! Aren't they practical & smart or what?

We did put a couple of bars in the ramps to get impulse (and to hold yourself). You should definetely put them.

In this album you'll find some pics of the solution

http://picasaweb.google.es/dnothink/Out ... 2874452706

The designers are currently discussing an evolution of the handle bars to improve ramp stability.

We'll keep you posted

Yes- it's very practical and smart! I'm really happy with it. I do plan on putting hand pulls on it, I just haven't got that far yet. I'm also not entirely sure how I want to do it... Going to check out that photo album now to see how you guys did it. I just want to make sure that whatever solution I use can still be packed up into the small package. I don't want a ramp that fits in my trunk, but hand pulls that have to go on the roof rack...

EDIT- Checked out the album. I didn't see the hand pull supports in the video, and I think they are probably a great addition! Did you guys bend those steel pipes yourself? I don't have access to a pipe bender big enough for stock that size.

Pat Chewning · Post by **Pat Chewning** » Wed May 12, 2010 5:06 pm

Ricardo Damborenea wrote: The designers are currently discussing an evolution of the handle bars to improve ramp stability.

We'll keep you posted

I suggest something like this:

Ricardo Damborenea · Post by **Ricardo Damborenea** » Wed May 12, 2010 5:12 pm

That's exactly what's on the "pipeline". Thanks!

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Thu May 13, 2010 4:55 am

Figured out how to make my clamps work. Two eye bolts, some washers, and a pin:

Curt Chapman · Post by **Curt Chapman** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:07 am

willy demis wrote:I do plan on putting hand pulls on it, I just haven't got that far yet. I'm also not entirely sure how I want to do it... Going to check out that photo album now to see how you guys did it. I just want to make sure that whatever solution I use can still be packed up into the small package. I don't want a ramp that fits in my trunk, but hand pulls that have to go on the roof rack...

So Willy - did you figure out a solution for hand pulls yet?

Ricardo Damborenea · Post by **Ricardo Damborenea** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:15 pm

check this photo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/myprofe/46 ... 8/sizes/l/

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:30 pm

I have not yet come up with any clever "quick attach" hand pulls yet. I'm still thinking about this...

Curt Chapman · Post by **Curt Chapman** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:43 pm

Ricardo Damborenea wrote:check this photo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/myprofe/46 ... 8/sizes/l/

Yes Ricardo, I've seen the solution you came up with...

I was interested in seeing if Willy had come up with a "modular" solution... Like he mentioned: "I don't want a ramp that fits in my trunk, but hand pulls that have to go on the roof rack..."

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:03 pm

At this point, the only thing I've been able to dream up is to use rectangular steel stock like this:

You could have two pieces with an insert welded into one. You could then put a pin through the other to hold them together via the insert. The rectangular steel would provide pretty good rigidity. My real problem is figuring out how to attach them to the base with some sort of "quick connect." That's the part I'm having a tough time with.

Curt Chapman · Post by **Curt Chapman** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:40 pm

willy demis wrote:My real problem is figuring out how to attach them to the base with some sort of "quick connect." That's the part I'm having a tough time with.

U-bolts? (Works on full-sized ramps...)

C-clamps?

I think I'm going to start building one of these ramps soon. I'm thinking round tubing for the pull bars. (with an insert like you've mentioned) and U-bolts. Haven't built the ramp yet, so I have no idea if they'll work, get in the way, or.....

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:20 pm

I really like this design. But for me, the whole point was to pack it up in the trunk, take somewhere, easily assemble it, tear down, and drive home. With u clamps, I would need to carry wrench and it isn't quick. I've solved the problem of L-brackets to hold all of the ramp sections together (with the pull action clamps) so I want to have the same quickness for the pull handles as well. No u-clamps for me...

Curt Chapman · Post by **Curt Chapman** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:25 pm

willy demis wrote:I really like this design. But for me, the whole point was to pack it up in the trunk, take somewhere, easily assemble it, tear down, and drive home. With u clamps, I would need to carry wrench and it isn't quick. I've solved the problem of L-brackets to hold all of the ramp sections together (with the pull action clamps) so I want to have the same quickness for the pull handles as well. No u-clamps for me...

Like I mentioned, I haven't built a ramp yet, so I don't know if U-bolts will work, just throwin' ideas around. They don't necessarily have to be "wrench" tightened to work. Finger-tightened would work fine for a couple hour session before breaking the ramp back down for transport.

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:28 pm

Yeah, and you could use wingnuts... May work. You could also drill a hole in the main box and install a large t-nut on the backside. Then you could weld a wing nut to the top of a bolt, and drill a hole through the steel. This would give you a "wing bolt" that could be easily inserted by hand into the main base. Hmmmm... Maybe that is what I will do!

Curt Chapman · Post by **Curt Chapman** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:48 am

willy demis wrote:Yeah, and you could use wingnuts... May work. You could also drill a hole in the main box and install a large t-nut on the backside. Then you could weld a wing nut to the top of a bolt, and drill a hole through the steel. This would give you a "wing bolt" that could be easily inserted by hand into the main base. Hmmmm... Maybe that is what I will do!

Heh heh,,, Heh heh,,, You said "wing bolt".

Heh heh,,, Heh heh,

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Screw the "wing bolts"... Just use eye bolts like you did with your clamps. Same effect, no welding...

Ricardo Damborenea · Post by **Ricardo Damborenea** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:54 pm

The pull bars are also modular. They get assembled in two sections

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:28 pm

Ricardo- do you think you would be able to post a close-up picture of the pull handles? That seems to be the part that most people are getting tripped up on. If you could share how you did it, that would be really helpful! Thanks!

Curt Chapman · Post by **Curt Chapman** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:14 pm

willy demis wrote:Ricardo- do you think you would be able to post a close-up picture of the pull handles? That seems to be the part that most people are getting tripped up on. If you could share how you did it, that would be really helpful! Thanks!

+1 for me too...

My adventure has begun...

I think I've got the pull handles figured out after Willy's and my brainstorming, just need to source them and buy them, unless Ricardo posts some photos that change my mind.

By the way, thank you Ricardo for these plans. I'm excited that if I actually make it to any races this summer, I won't lose every heat on the start ramp..

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:26 pm

Saw dust everywhere. Ha! That's how my garage looked too... Nice job on the ramp! Looks like you were able to make it the full 1000mm length, huh? I had to knock mine down to 970mm so that it would fit in my car. Because of it- the lower transition section was shorter. Because it was shorter, it hit the ground at a (somewhat) harsh angle.

I took the ramp to the STL race, and everyone liked it a lot. However, some more seasoned ramp builders really disliked the harsh angle. Something to watch out for on your ramp...

If you do end up with a not-so-smooth transition to the ground, then a solution would be to modify the lower transition piece as such:

1) Section off and remove a section from the tall end. As if you had a giant bandsaw and just sliced off a 3" strip from the back.
2) Get a 3" longer piece of steel, and send it through some rollers to put a curve in it. This will mellow out the transition to the ground while maintaining the overall length of the piece (so it will still fit packed up).

Ricardo Damborenea · Post by **Ricardo Damborenea** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:30 pm

check this vid

http://vimeo.com/12266155

Ricardo Damborenea · Post by **Ricardo Damborenea** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:31 pm

I'll try to find some close ups of the handle bars or will take some photos over the W.E.

Curt Chapman · Post by **Curt Chapman** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:33 pm

willy demis wrote:Looks like you were able to make it the full 1000mm length, huh?

Yeah, it's currently at the 1000mm (or close to it) length... My wife took off with my small car and the kids for a lil' vacation without me

so I'm not positive it's gonna fit without laying the seats down. I'm just happy to have some sort of ramp that doesn't require truck or trailer to transport. I can deal with laying a seat down if I have to. It will DEFINITELY fit in the Yukon (If I ever get the the POS out of the shop...)

willy demis wrote:I took the ramp to the STL race, and everyone liked it a lot. However, some more seasoned ramp builders really disliked the harsh angle. Something to watch out for on your ramp...

Meh.....

If you get use to "adverse" conditions, like a "kinked" ramp, then a "more seasoned" ramp will feel all that much better, and the user of the harsh angle ramp should be able to use those skillz to really kick some booty on the "better" ramp.

willy demis · Post by **willy demis** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:34 pm

Thanks for the video. I am more interested in what the materials are, and where they were sourced. For example, is that just steel tubing? How did you compress the end so that another piece could slip onto it (making it two pieces)? What is the bracket that is used to hold the pull bar to the ramp, was it custom made as well?

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