Marcus,
I tried to set up PC-Trackmate(5.2) connection via different serial cables without any success. Excelmate(4.2)' Start/Reset button doesn't actually restart the timer.
Port debugger utility called Portmon.exe shows read timeouts. Cables (Serial-Serial and USB-Serial) and COM-port are functioning properly.
Is there a way to test serial port in trackmate? Do you have any information about the protocol used in it?
ExcelMate your new friend?
Moderator: Jani Soderhall
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Bernie Griffiths
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:24 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Here is a link to the ASRA Double Elimination worksheet, which is based on Pat Chewning's Chronocone worksheet.
It should work with Excelmate.
It works out who races who, if the repecharge race is required, and has a progress chart.
Double elimination is a great format, as the possibility of a come back via the repecharge round makes the finals very interesting, and ensures that the level of competition remains high throughout the event, even if the top seeds get beaten in an early round.
http://www.skateboardracing.org.au/prof ... limination
I read above that you dont the second run, so on this sheet simply don't use it, the formula's don't need "DQ" data in the second run to work out the result. Have left the second run columns in instead of spending hours adjusting formulas.
As to switching names around for lanes, not sure that it is a big deal. If you use chronocone, it puts that data next to the racer that was selected, and notes the lane in the data. Pretty sure that excelmate will put the data in next to the name also.
In qualifying there is a formula that works out cone penalties for those using manual entry. DQ = 999 second, and DNF is for no shows, and you guessed it DNF's.
Cell AU2 to AU4 is where you can set the cone penalty, and DQ thresholds for qualifying.
Have not put that function into the race section as we expect to use chronocone to handle that stuff. If you want that formula in the race section, just copy it, from qualifying, and add the data in cells AU2 to Au4.
The sheet is setup so that the top seed or winner of previous round is always in the upper cell of each race, so no one needs to remember who gets the pick of lane.
Cheers!
PS: Got Pat Chewning's chronocone running with minimal effort, using off the shelf bits, and almost zero knowledge of electronics, and best of all it costs less than my DIY wireless timer!
It should work with Excelmate.
It works out who races who, if the repecharge race is required, and has a progress chart.
Double elimination is a great format, as the possibility of a come back via the repecharge round makes the finals very interesting, and ensures that the level of competition remains high throughout the event, even if the top seeds get beaten in an early round.
http://www.skateboardracing.org.au/prof ... limination
I read above that you dont the second run, so on this sheet simply don't use it, the formula's don't need "DQ" data in the second run to work out the result. Have left the second run columns in instead of spending hours adjusting formulas.
As to switching names around for lanes, not sure that it is a big deal. If you use chronocone, it puts that data next to the racer that was selected, and notes the lane in the data. Pretty sure that excelmate will put the data in next to the name also.
In qualifying there is a formula that works out cone penalties for those using manual entry. DQ = 999 second, and DNF is for no shows, and you guessed it DNF's.
Cell AU2 to AU4 is where you can set the cone penalty, and DQ thresholds for qualifying.
Have not put that function into the race section as we expect to use chronocone to handle that stuff. If you want that formula in the race section, just copy it, from qualifying, and add the data in cells AU2 to Au4.
The sheet is setup so that the top seed or winner of previous round is always in the upper cell of each race, so no one needs to remember who gets the pick of lane.
Cheers!
PS: Got Pat Chewning's chronocone running with minimal effort, using off the shelf bits, and almost zero knowledge of electronics, and best of all it costs less than my DIY wireless timer!
Let it go.
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Colin Beck
- Posts: 24
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- Location: Sydney, Australia
- Contact:
We've been running our double elim races with pen and paper. Here's a copy of the double-elimination draw I've been using:
http://www.skateboardracing.org.au/foru ... 38%3A48938
It's pretty much as Wesley says.
Modifying the Excel sheet to cope with this draw would be a fairly major undertaking I imagine!
http://www.skateboardracing.org.au/foru ... 38%3A48938
It's pretty much as Wesley says.
Modifying the Excel sheet to cope with this draw would be a fairly major undertaking I imagine!
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Wesley Tucker
- 1961-2013 (RIP)
- Posts: 3279
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
Marcus,
No. It's run like this:
Round of winners
Matching round of losers.
Round of winners
Matching round of losers
And so on.
Remember: EVERYBODY races in the first round of winners with half falling to the loser's bracket. Half of those losing advance to the next round of the losers' and half are eliminated. The second-round loser's bracket is now only half full.
Now, the winners must skate next. Why? Because half of them are eliminated and fall to the loser's bracket and fill it out. They then race in the loser's bracket and half advance and half eliminated.
Another reason to do this is a matter of fairness. With your suggestion of running all the winners down to one and then starting over, you'll have a final with one skater who's rested for an hour or more and another who's skated non-stop for the same amount of time. When they meet the racing can be very advantageous for one. (The winner could be well rested and ready or the other way and be stone cold going up against a skater that's warm with several recent runs) It's really more competitive if both the winner and the loser reach the final after both have had a comparable amount of racing and resting.
And again, don't forget: even in the loser's bracket the high seed always has lane choice. Every single heat, winner or loser, involves asking the high seed which lane.
No. It's run like this:
Round of winners
Matching round of losers.
Round of winners
Matching round of losers
And so on.
Remember: EVERYBODY races in the first round of winners with half falling to the loser's bracket. Half of those losing advance to the next round of the losers' and half are eliminated. The second-round loser's bracket is now only half full.
Now, the winners must skate next. Why? Because half of them are eliminated and fall to the loser's bracket and fill it out. They then race in the loser's bracket and half advance and half eliminated.
Another reason to do this is a matter of fairness. With your suggestion of running all the winners down to one and then starting over, you'll have a final with one skater who's rested for an hour or more and another who's skated non-stop for the same amount of time. When they meet the racing can be very advantageous for one. (The winner could be well rested and ready or the other way and be stone cold going up against a skater that's warm with several recent runs) It's really more competitive if both the winner and the loser reach the final after both have had a comparable amount of racing and resting.
And again, don't forget: even in the loser's bracket the high seed always has lane choice. Every single heat, winner or loser, involves asking the high seed which lane.
Last edited by Wesley Tucker on Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Marcus Seyffarth
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- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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Thanks Wesley!
For Excelmate it would be pretty easy to just have a checkbox on the "settings page" where you select double elimination and then the program would just DQ both riders in the second run, making the winner of the first advance. The problem is that the Excelsheet must know where to move the loser and that should probably be on a separate sheet. How do you run this? First the heat of 16, heat of 8, heat of 4 and so on until you have 1 person left, and then losers heat of 16, losers heat of 8 and so on until you have one person left and these two meet in a final?
For the program the changing of position of names is not a problem, each time you save a time it will look up the current "heat section", and then look up the selected name in the dropdown in that section. So if you want you could move them around all the time. But really its not of any use other than statistics (which lane was fastest) and to more easily remember who went down which course, so from my point of view it's not really necessary to move them around, but if you do, its not a problem. Biggest problem seems to get/program an excelsheet that moves the losers to their correct round.
/Marcus
For Excelmate it would be pretty easy to just have a checkbox on the "settings page" where you select double elimination and then the program would just DQ both riders in the second run, making the winner of the first advance. The problem is that the Excelsheet must know where to move the loser and that should probably be on a separate sheet. How do you run this? First the heat of 16, heat of 8, heat of 4 and so on until you have 1 person left, and then losers heat of 16, losers heat of 8 and so on until you have one person left and these two meet in a final?
For the program the changing of position of names is not a problem, each time you save a time it will look up the current "heat section", and then look up the selected name in the dropdown in that section. So if you want you could move them around all the time. But really its not of any use other than statistics (which lane was fastest) and to more easily remember who went down which course, so from my point of view it's not really necessary to move them around, but if you do, its not a problem. Biggest problem seems to get/program an excelsheet that moves the losers to their correct round.
/Marcus
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Wesley Tucker
- 1961-2013 (RIP)
- Posts: 3279
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
Marcus,
IF Colin is using the newly-authorized ISSA double elimination format, here's what it needs to do: fastest adjusted time advances after one run. There is no second run in each heat needing to be combined and averaged with the first run.
If you can do this, the loser is put into another bracket immediately and the winner advances. The racing in the losing bracket is treated just like the winners except the loser is eliminated.
Another matter to consider with double-elimination is in each heat the higher seeded racer has lane choice. That would involve possibly having to "flip" names when racing. If racer "A" is automatically advanced to the white lane but chooses to run in the red then those name have to be rearranged. I know that adds an element of manual manipulation but that's the rules: high seed offers the advantage of always getting lane choice.
I will tell you this, also: Jack Smith found off-the-shelf software to run his double elimination event in California last year. Whether or not it ports directly to the computer I do not know. Perhaps contacting him and getting that software and adapting it may be easier than adapting Excelmate to DE?
IF Colin is using the newly-authorized ISSA double elimination format, here's what it needs to do: fastest adjusted time advances after one run. There is no second run in each heat needing to be combined and averaged with the first run.
If you can do this, the loser is put into another bracket immediately and the winner advances. The racing in the losing bracket is treated just like the winners except the loser is eliminated.
Another matter to consider with double-elimination is in each heat the higher seeded racer has lane choice. That would involve possibly having to "flip" names when racing. If racer "A" is automatically advanced to the white lane but chooses to run in the red then those name have to be rearranged. I know that adds an element of manual manipulation but that's the rules: high seed offers the advantage of always getting lane choice.
I will tell you this, also: Jack Smith found off-the-shelf software to run his double elimination event in California last year. Whether or not it ports directly to the computer I do not know. Perhaps contacting him and getting that software and adapting it may be easier than adapting Excelmate to DE?
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Marcus Seyffarth
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- Contact:
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Colin Beck
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:32 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
- Contact:
Sorry for the delay in responding, but yes, the problem is now fixed. Thank you!Marcus Seyffarth wrote:Colin, about your previous problem starting the program. Did you have Excel installed on the computer. I got the same error some time ago and realized excel was not installed. I have added a check for that in 4.1 as well.
(The PC I was using had a "non-activated" copy of Excel installed.)
But we are using double-elimination for all out head-to-head races here, so sadly we can only use Excelmate for single lane races.
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Ricardo Damborenea
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:31 pm
- Location: Madrid
We don't use it for print outs. We input manually the times and cones in the excel sheet and benefit from its functionalities to create both rider's clasifications & final round "pairs" automatically, which can be a mess done by hand if you have a lot of riders.Marcus Seyffarth wrote: Ricardo, The installation does not search for any devices so you must have choosen to install on a disk that didn't exist, haven't enough space or you didn't have access. Or something like that.
However I really can't see why you need the updated version if you are going to print it a and write with a pencil. The bug was that the totaltime in the third run was not calculated in a correct way, and since you write with a pen, well I just don't think that macro will affect you anyways...
But thanks Toby for helping!
I've PMed Toby already.
Thanks for the help and regards.
NP Marcus. This cost me 0 secs of energy.Marcus Seyffarth wrote:Wesley, if you've read the thread then you know by now that the program runs under microsoft windows. However as I mentioned a few posts up you can run the program on a Mac if (and this is a pretty important if) you run Fusion or Parallels with a MS windows image. Otherwise it will not work. Simple as that.
However using Fusion it works sweet, and as late as yesterday we ran a small race using my Macbook, a trackmate, excelmate and also hooked my cellphone (Nokia N95) up using bluetooth to the computer to get internet access, and I was able to report the runs to the web - live. All from a garage 4 levels below ground since its still snowing in this part of the world...
Ricardo, The installation does not search for any devices so you must have choosen to install on a disk that didn't exist, haven't enough space or you didn't have access. Or something like that.
However I really can't see why you need the updated version if you are going to print it a and write with a pencil. The bug was that the totaltime in the third run was not calculated in a correct way, and since you write with a pen, well I just don't think that macro will affect you anyways...
But thanks Toby for helping!
Expect me to show up in Sthlm on around June 25. Heading out to friends in the US on the 26th.
Peace.
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Marcus Seyffarth
- Posts: 607
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As I wrote above:
- install some virtual PC software,
- install XP (or win2000 or similar) on this virtual machine,
- install Excel on the virtual machine
- install drivers for your USB/RS232 converter (the connector from computer to trackmate)
- install ExcelMate
Run the program as normal!
Saying that I brought the program to Mac is a perhaps not all true. I didn't do jackshit, the people that brought us the possibility to run an instance of MS XP or similar operating system on Intel based Macs made it possible to use Excelmate on Macs (or any other computer that have this possibility).
So - Yes I do have Excel for windows (I don't have excel for mac), its a must to get it to run.
On another note. 750usd seems pretty heavy. I thought it was more like 250, perhaps the newer with a larger display are more expensive.
- install some virtual PC software,
- install XP (or win2000 or similar) on this virtual machine,
- install Excel on the virtual machine
- install drivers for your USB/RS232 converter (the connector from computer to trackmate)
- install ExcelMate
Run the program as normal!
Saying that I brought the program to Mac is a perhaps not all true. I didn't do jackshit, the people that brought us the possibility to run an instance of MS XP or similar operating system on Intel based Macs made it possible to use Excelmate on Macs (or any other computer that have this possibility).
So - Yes I do have Excel for windows (I don't have excel for mac), its a must to get it to run.
On another note. 750usd seems pretty heavy. I thought it was more like 250, perhaps the newer with a larger display are more expensive.
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Wesley Tucker
- 1961-2013 (RIP)
- Posts: 3279
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
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Marcus Seyffarth
- Posts: 607
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
Wesley, if you've read the thread then you know by now that the program runs under microsoft windows. However as I mentioned a few posts up you can run the program on a Mac if (and this is a pretty important if) you run Fusion or Parallels with a MS windows image. Otherwise it will not work. Simple as that.
However using Fusion it works sweet, and as late as yesterday we ran a small race using my Macbook, a trackmate, excelmate and also hooked my cellphone (Nokia N95) up using bluetooth to the computer to get internet access, and I was able to report the runs to the web - live. All from a garage 4 levels below ground since its still snowing in this part of the world...
Ricardo, The installation does not search for any devices so you must have choosen to install on a disk that didn't exist, haven't enough space or you didn't have access. Or something like that.
However I really can't see why you need the updated version if you are going to print it a and write with a pencil. The bug was that the totaltime in the third run was not calculated in a correct way, and since you write with a pen, well I just don't think that macro will affect you anyways...
But thanks Toby for helping!
However using Fusion it works sweet, and as late as yesterday we ran a small race using my Macbook, a trackmate, excelmate and also hooked my cellphone (Nokia N95) up using bluetooth to the computer to get internet access, and I was able to report the runs to the web - live. All from a garage 4 levels below ground since its still snowing in this part of the world...
Ricardo, The installation does not search for any devices so you must have choosen to install on a disk that didn't exist, haven't enough space or you didn't have access. Or something like that.
However I really can't see why you need the updated version if you are going to print it a and write with a pencil. The bug was that the totaltime in the third run was not calculated in a correct way, and since you write with a pen, well I just don't think that macro will affect you anyways...
But thanks Toby for helping!
The program should install properly, without a Trackmate.Ricardo Damborenea wrote:Installation process stops with a message that it can not find the device (I guess trying to find the Trackmate), so spreadsheets do not download. I have the previous versions, though, but you mentioned a bug in the single lane spreadsheet.
We use a home made system with ribbon sensors, currently single line. Good for training, as no pc required. We are building a module to connect two of this systems and trigger simultaneous two lane starts. But no pc interface in the pipeline and/or 750usd to buy a trackmate
PM me for the files.
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Ricardo Damborenea
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:31 pm
- Location: Madrid
Installation process stops with a message that it can not find the device (I guess trying to find the Trackmate), so spreadsheets do not download. I have the previous versions, though, but you mentioned a bug in the single lane spreadsheet.
We use a home made system with ribbon sensors, currently single line. Good for training, as no pc required. We are building a module to connect two of this systems and trigger simultaneous two lane starts. But no pc interface in the pipeline and/or 750usd to buy a trackmate
We use a home made system with ribbon sensors, currently single line. Good for training, as no pc required. We are building a module to connect two of this systems and trigger simultaneous two lane starts. But no pc interface in the pipeline and/or 750usd to buy a trackmate
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Wesley Tucker
- 1961-2013 (RIP)
- Posts: 3279
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
Marcus,
Microsoft System Installer (.msi) files don't work on Macintosh. Excel files are translatable to either platform but not if its truncated in some way for Windows only.
So, my Mac has no clue what to do with a .msi file. (Took me a while to look around and figure out what that suffix was meant to do.)
Microsoft System Installer (.msi) files don't work on Macintosh. Excel files are translatable to either platform but not if its truncated in some way for Windows only.
So, my Mac has no clue what to do with a .msi file. (Took me a while to look around and figure out what that suffix was meant to do.)
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Marcus Seyffarth
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- Contact:
Since the spreadsheets must match the version of the program in order to work, I don't want to put the spreadsheets in a separate part because then people that do use the program might use the incorrect version and things stop working.
So my suggestion is that you download the program, install it and copy the spreadsheets. If you don't want the program simply uninstall once you have copied the spreadsheets.
What timer are you using?
So my suggestion is that you download the program, install it and copy the spreadsheets. If you don't want the program simply uninstall once you have copied the spreadsheets.
What timer are you using?
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Ricardo Damborenea
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- Location: Madrid
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Marcus Seyffarth
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4.2
Found a bug in the singlelane template in the third round during our last race. I have now fixed it and bundled it to version 4.2 of the excelmate. There is no difference in the program from 4.1 but since the spreadsheet was wrong and there is no version to them I figured it was easier to upgrade and upload the whole combo.
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi
Enjoy!
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi
Enjoy!
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Marcus Seyffarth
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Version 4.1 is out there. The new thing is that reaction times are added to single lane spread sheets as well and of course added by the excelmate. This since we have strated using the reaction start in sinlge lane as well.
Also the tab does not stop in the reaction/rawtime areas anymore. This to make it even more easy to use the program without a mouse, just using tab/arrows/enter.
We tried the Mac/WMWare/Excelmate combo last tuesday and it was a success. Only thing was that there wasn't any column for reaction times in the excelsheet.
Same place as always.
Colin, about your previous problem starting the program. Did you have Excel installed on the computer. I got the same error some time ago and realized excel was not installed. I have added a check for that in 4.1 as well.
Also the tab does not stop in the reaction/rawtime areas anymore. This to make it even more easy to use the program without a mouse, just using tab/arrows/enter.
We tried the Mac/WMWare/Excelmate combo last tuesday and it was a success. Only thing was that there wasn't any column for reaction times in the excelsheet.
Same place as always.
Colin, about your previous problem starting the program. Did you have Excel installed on the computer. I got the same error some time ago and realized excel was not installed. I have added a check for that in 4.1 as well.
Re: Excelmate works on intelbased Mac computers
Dude..Marcus Seyffarth wrote:I got myself one of these new fine sweet little macbook computers for christmas.
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Marcus Seyffarth
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Excelmate works on intelbased Mac computers
Hey, great news!
I got myself one of these new fine sweet little macbook computers for christmas. I haven't used it that much yet but I'm getting there. Just now I ran Excelmate 4.0 on it using WMWare Fusion. Its an excellent program that cost you about 79$ (usd) and let you run windows based programs without rebooting or doing anything. Its really magic how it works, but thats not my problem and for 79$ its pretty cheap for the amount of magic that you get.
What you need to do is:
- install this Fusion program,
- create a virtual machine that runs windows XP,
- install XP on this virtual machine,
- install Excel on the virtual machine
- install drivers for your USB/RS232 converter (the connector from computer to trackmate)
- install ExcelMate
Run the program as normal!
I haven't tested the connectivity yet but I have installed a bluetooth driver and Nokia PC suite that is able to connect my cellphone to the computer so I believe that it won't be a problem.
If everything works out we will runs some smaller events during the spring and I will report how it works.
The Fusion program is available as a 30 day trial.
I got myself one of these new fine sweet little macbook computers for christmas. I haven't used it that much yet but I'm getting there. Just now I ran Excelmate 4.0 on it using WMWare Fusion. Its an excellent program that cost you about 79$ (usd) and let you run windows based programs without rebooting or doing anything. Its really magic how it works, but thats not my problem and for 79$ its pretty cheap for the amount of magic that you get.
What you need to do is:
- install this Fusion program,
- create a virtual machine that runs windows XP,
- install XP on this virtual machine,
- install Excel on the virtual machine
- install drivers for your USB/RS232 converter (the connector from computer to trackmate)
- install ExcelMate
Run the program as normal!
I haven't tested the connectivity yet but I have installed a bluetooth driver and Nokia PC suite that is able to connect my cellphone to the computer so I believe that it won't be a problem.
If everything works out we will runs some smaller events during the spring and I will report how it works.
The Fusion program is available as a 30 day trial.
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Marcus Seyffarth
- Posts: 607
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
4.0
I'm listening...
So here is the new 4.0 version with only one save button and only one lane in the single lane stuff. I have made lots of changes under the hood, so thats why this is 4.0 instead of 3.6.
I have not had the time to test it with a trackmate but I hope it works just fine.
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi
If you prefer the old version I kept it here
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup_35.msi
Try it and let me know if its what you wanted it to be.
/Marcus
So here is the new 4.0 version with only one save button and only one lane in the single lane stuff. I have made lots of changes under the hood, so thats why this is 4.0 instead of 3.6.
I have not had the time to test it with a trackmate but I hope it works just fine.
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi
If you prefer the old version I kept it here
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup_35.msi
Try it and let me know if its what you wanted it to be.
/Marcus
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Colin Beck
- Posts: 24
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- Location: Sydney, Australia
- Contact:
I never solved the problem - I just used a different laptop. Actually, a friend has tried ExcelMate on 3 different laptops and had the same problem as me - instant crash. I was starting to think it must be a southern hemisphere thing (the bytes go around in the wrong direction...Marcus Seyffarth wrote:Great that you got it to work! Would you like to share what the issue was?
)I see your points. I can't really argue for my points with any conviction cos I haven't actually used the program in a race yet. Actually I don't even have a new enough Trakmate yet!Marcus Seyffarth wrote:Single lane:
...
Dual lane:
...
Yes, actually the big part of the work is not with the change to single-runs, but with the change to double-elimination. And with this, the big part of the work is most likely in creating a new spreadsheet. The changes needed in Excelmate would likely be smaller.Marcus Seyffarth wrote:Single lane elimination:
The Excelmate is just a stupid program that transfers data to an excelsheet so the program would work just fine. Instead of making a whole new spread sheet why don't you just copy the dual racing spread sheet template and fill the first or second round with "DQ". This would perhaps not be as beautiful but would work.
I'm not an Excel wizard, but maybe I'll have to become one
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Marcus Seyffarth
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Great that you got it to work! Would you like to share what the issue was?
Single lane:
It seems reasonable to only show one lane in single lane, I guess I just kept both in order to make it as transparent as possible and also that you could use any port on the trackmate. Removing one field would mean that you have to use the selected port on the trackmate. Perhaps the best is to only show one lane and add a setting so that you can change which lane that is used (if one port is broken on an excelmate you can still use this).
Dual lane:
I understand that in most cases it is best to have one large button, Dan Gesmer said the same thing. However sometimes there is only one rider going down the hill and then forcing the other lane to be saved would be a problem. I don't have a good answer to how to solve this, perhaps having a big button and then if there are no time/cones/rider selected in one of the lanes then the program just skips this lane.
Don't you think that you would make it harder to use when you have to the info for both riders correct before saving? Please understand that I have only used the program for small single lane races, so I really have no idea of how it is to use it for a whole day of racing...
Single lane elimination:
The Excelmate is just a stupid program that transfers data to an excelsheet so the program would work just fine. Instead of making a whole new spread sheet why don't you just copy the dual racing spread sheet template and fill the first or second round with "DQ". This would perhaps not be as beautiful but would work.
Single lane:
It seems reasonable to only show one lane in single lane, I guess I just kept both in order to make it as transparent as possible and also that you could use any port on the trackmate. Removing one field would mean that you have to use the selected port on the trackmate. Perhaps the best is to only show one lane and add a setting so that you can change which lane that is used (if one port is broken on an excelmate you can still use this).
Dual lane:
I understand that in most cases it is best to have one large button, Dan Gesmer said the same thing. However sometimes there is only one rider going down the hill and then forcing the other lane to be saved would be a problem. I don't have a good answer to how to solve this, perhaps having a big button and then if there are no time/cones/rider selected in one of the lanes then the program just skips this lane.
Don't you think that you would make it harder to use when you have to the info for both riders correct before saving? Please understand that I have only used the program for small single lane races, so I really have no idea of how it is to use it for a whole day of racing...
Single lane elimination:
The Excelmate is just a stupid program that transfers data to an excelsheet so the program would work just fine. Instead of making a whole new spread sheet why don't you just copy the dual racing spread sheet template and fill the first or second round with "DQ". This would perhaps not be as beautiful but would work.
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Colin Beck
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:32 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
- Contact:
I finally have this working, but have not plugged a Trakmate in to it yet. It promises to make timing a lot easier.
But I have a few user-interface questions/suggestions.
Why is there both a "Left" and "Right" lane when using the single lane template?
When using the double-lane template it would simplify things if there was only one button to save the results instead of separate buttons for "Save Left" and "Save Right".
In combination with the above, the tab order could be changed so that you can tab directly from Cones (left) to Cones (right) to the "Save" button. These would be the only 3 activities that would need to be done for every run.
And here's the big one - is there any possibility of a new spreadsheet and Excelmate version that can do a head-to-head double-elimination with a single run (instead of each racer having a run on both the red and white courses)? I helped organise a race with this format two days ago, and it was a great success.
Thanks for making this prog Marcus.
But I have a few user-interface questions/suggestions.
Why is there both a "Left" and "Right" lane when using the single lane template?
When using the double-lane template it would simplify things if there was only one button to save the results instead of separate buttons for "Save Left" and "Save Right".
In combination with the above, the tab order could be changed so that you can tab directly from Cones (left) to Cones (right) to the "Save" button. These would be the only 3 activities that would need to be done for every run.
And here's the big one - is there any possibility of a new spreadsheet and Excelmate version that can do a head-to-head double-elimination with a single run (instead of each racer having a run on both the red and white courses)? I helped organise a race with this format two days ago, and it was a great success.
Thanks for making this prog Marcus.
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Claude Regnier
- Claude Regnier
- Posts: 1189
- Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Thank you!
Please send me a reminder as I am likely to forget, EH!
Have a great winter. Hope to see you next season.
Thanks for everything. The system has been great at every event using it that I have attended this past season.
Have a great winter. Hope to see you next season.
Thanks for everything. The system has been great at every event using it that I have attended this past season.
Many Happy Pumps!
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Marcus Seyffarth
- Posts: 607
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
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Claude Regnier
- Claude Regnier
- Posts: 1189
- Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Hmm!
Can you add in my handicap for next season. I think it's .5 per year age difference once you turn 50.
Thank you in advance..................
Thank you in advance..................
Many Happy Pumps!
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Marcus Seyffarth
- Posts: 607
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
its the end of the season
No one probably even used the 3.4 and already the 3.5 is here...
When the race is down to finals you had to switch back and fourth between consi and final round in the round selector and this felt like a drawback. So the 3.5 only have one "Final & consi" item in the dropdown.
All 4 riders who made the finals will appear in the "riders dropdown" but to make it clear who made it to the finals and who got to consi the program adds a "- (final)" or "- (consi)" after the name of the rider. I think it will make it easier to use.
3.5 is available at the same place as usual;
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi
I'm starting to get low on improvements, let me know if you have any ideas!
/Marcus
When the race is down to finals you had to switch back and fourth between consi and final round in the round selector and this felt like a drawback. So the 3.5 only have one "Final & consi" item in the dropdown.
All 4 riders who made the finals will appear in the "riders dropdown" but to make it clear who made it to the finals and who got to consi the program adds a "- (final)" or "- (consi)" after the name of the rider. I think it will make it easier to use.
3.5 is available at the same place as usual;
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi
I'm starting to get low on improvements, let me know if you have any ideas!
/Marcus
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Miguel Marco
- Posts: 563
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:31 pm
- Location: Quebec, Canada
- Contact:
Re: Version 3.4 hits the stores
Very very cool!Marcus Seyffarth wrote:I added a "refresh riders" button on the "race tab". It is only visible during qualification and single lane. If some rider arrives late (we know this never happens but IF) then you can just type in the name in the excelsheet, click the button and - bam the name is in the list and can compete. As simple as that.
No man! Thanks to you for all your work on this fantastic tool!Marcus Seyffarth wrote:Thanks to all of you who are using this and making the races run smoother!
Re: Version 3.4 hits the stores
Thanks for making the program!Marcus Seyffarth wrote: Thanks to all of you who are using this and making the races run smoother!
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Marcus Seyffarth
- Posts: 607
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
Version 3.4 hits the stores
I added a "refresh riders" button on the "race tab". It is only visible during qualification and single lane. If some rider arrives late (we know this never happens but IF) then you can just type in the name in the excelsheet, click the button and - bam the name is in the list and can compete. As simple as that.
I also changed so that the reaction is always visible unless you have actively selected the "Discard reaction times" checkbox. At swedish championships this year we used the random beep during single lane to make it more interesting and then it was good to see the reaction times so I think its good to be able to make the choice.
Now 3.4 is available. Same place;
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi
Thanks to all of you who are using this and making the races run smoother!
I also changed so that the reaction is always visible unless you have actively selected the "Discard reaction times" checkbox. At swedish championships this year we used the random beep during single lane to make it more interesting and then it was good to see the reaction times so I think its good to be able to make the choice.
Now 3.4 is available. Same place;
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi
Thanks to all of you who are using this and making the races run smoother!
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Marcus Seyffarth
- Posts: 607
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
Chris,
I think that once you have tried the 6.8 you don't wanna go back to 6.3. Its simply much better with the random beeps. No fuss, no learning to time the beep, no early starts, no lifting of wheels, just real reaction.
But having the opportunity is always good. Good to know that you have all versions Pat.
/Marcus
I think that once you have tried the 6.8 you don't wanna go back to 6.3. Its simply much better with the random beeps. No fuss, no learning to time the beep, no early starts, no lifting of wheels, just real reaction.
But having the opportunity is always good. Good to know that you have all versions Pat.
/Marcus
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Pat Chewning
- Pat C.
- Posts: 1400
- Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Portland Oregon
Chris:
Yes, I have firmware for all versions. Will send them to you.
Yes, FW version 6.3 has the problem of max 64.536 seconds..... That is why we had to manually record times in the GS at Hood River.
Yes, I agree that the Trackmate was updated without agreement from the slalom community as to what we really wanted.
In fact, when I finally got through to Dan at Trackmate he was VERY surprised that anyone would want to go back from the newer version 6.8 to the "inferior" version 6.3 ...
Yes, I have firmware for all versions. Will send them to you.
Yes, FW version 6.3 has the problem of max 64.536 seconds..... That is why we had to manually record times in the GS at Hood River.
Yes, I agree that the Trackmate was updated without agreement from the slalom community as to what we really wanted.
In fact, when I finally got through to Dan at Trackmate he was VERY surprised that anyone would want to go back from the newer version 6.8 to the "inferior" version 6.3 ...
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Chris Barker
- Posts: 156
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Longmont, Colorado
Pat, do you have firmware download for 6.3? My new clock came with it, but I don't want to upgrade to random beep 6.4/6.5/6.8? unless I knew I could downlevel back to 6.3.Pat Chewning wrote:I disagree. If you get the latest Trackmate hardware, load firmware revision 6.3 onto it.Miguel Marco wrote: By the way you may have the same rules in quals and elims that way but you can't have the same beep pattern with the new Trackmate, which probably makes it even more confusing for racers.
Now it communicates with Excelmate, has 4 standard evenly-spaced beeps, and provides the reaction time necessary.
You set it on mode 0 and leave it for the entire race. Same beep pattern for all races.
No mess, no fuss, no changing between Quals and Head-to-Head.
But... Doesn't 6.3 also have the greater than 64K milliseconds problem?
As I posted in the other discussion, it would be nice to have a working firmware download with the cadence beeps or a physical way to switch between cadence and random...
The whole thing has turned into a giant timer abortion...
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Miguel Marco
- Posts: 563
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:31 pm
- Location: Quebec, Canada
- Contact:
With the spreadsheet that comes wih the latest version of Excelmate, it doesn't work when you set it to 0 or leave it blank. All winning margins become 0 and you end up with a bunch of ties (when a racer wins the first race and the other racer the second).Pat Chewning wrote:The purpose: Limits the amount of time allowable for one racer to beat the other racer in a single run of Head-to-Head competition. (Used in some races in the past). It should be set to 0 (turned off) in order to comply with the ISSA rules.Miguel Marco wrote:What is the purpose of the "secs max head-to-head victory margin" field in Dan's dual racing spreadsheet?
What does it do and what should it be set at?
To get the real winning margins, it must be set to something high that won't limit the winning margins, like 999.
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Pat Chewning
- Pat C.
- Posts: 1400
- Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Portland Oregon
Re: version 3.3
I disagree. If you get the latest Trackmate hardware, load firmware revision 6.3 onto it.Miguel Marco wrote: By the way you may have the same rules in quals and elims that way but you can't have the same beep pattern with the new Trackmate, which probably makes it even more confusing for racers.
Now it communicates with Excelmate, has 4 standard evenly-spaced beeps, and provides the reaction time necessary.
You set it on mode 0 and leave it for the entire race. Same beep pattern for all races.
No mess, no fuss, no changing between Quals and Head-to-Head.
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Pat Chewning
- Pat C.
- Posts: 1400
- Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Portland Oregon
The purpose: Limits the amount of time allowable for one racer to beat the other racer in a single run of Head-to-Head competition. (Used in some races in the past). It should be set to 0 (turned off) in order to comply with the ISSA rules.Miguel Marco wrote:What is the purpose of the "secs max head-to-head victory margin" field in Dan's dual racing spreadsheet?
What does it do and what should it be set at?
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Miguel Marco
- Posts: 563
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:31 pm
- Location: Quebec, Canada
- Contact:
In downhill, you normally have two qualifying runs, when you are alone on the course.Marcus Seyffarth wrote: Toby, tell me more about the IGSA bracketing that you want.
What I'd like is a way to add any number of riders, run the qualifying (any number of runs) and have ExcelMate place the riders in a chosen bracket, depending on the number of riders.
http://www.igsaworldcup.com/rulebooks/2 ... _final.pdf - pages 26-34 shows the brackets that are used.
(2014 update: IGSA World Cup web site no longer available)
When the qualifying is over, the times/placing will determine your place in the race when being completely eliminated from the race.
I am a little too tired to follow my own thoughts now. Ask me about what is not clear. :)
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Claude Regnier
- Claude Regnier
- Posts: 1189
- Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Cornwall, Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
QUAL FALSE STAR PENALTY?
I don't remember that being done at any of the races I attended this past season.
That is not a good format for some Open events.
That is not a good format for some Open events.
Many Happy Pumps!
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Miguel Marco
- Posts: 563
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:31 pm
- Location: Quebec, Canada
- Contact:
Re: version 3.3
Thanks for the info Pat but it's not my call, it's the organizer's. I've just been asked to run the timing table, while still trying to do my best on the race courses...Pat Chewning wrote:At Hood River we took 2X the early-start amount and applied that as a false-start penalty.
We did this for the Qualification rounds and for the Elimination rounds.
The ISSA rules call for using the 2X false start penalty for all runs, qualification and elimination. In fact the reason the ISSA rules are the same for all runs is specifically so that race organizers (and racers) do not have to remember different rules for each run.
I suggest that you run the race with the 2X false-start penalty for both qual and elim races....
By the way you may have the same rules in quals and elims that way but you can't have the same beep pattern with the new Trackmate, which probably makes it even more confusing for racers. In mode 1 = single lane/qualifications, independant tapeswitch activated times, standard 4 beeps. In mode 0 = dual eliminations, common 4th beep activated start, random 4th beep.
Thank you very very much! This feature will make Excelmate even more flexible.Marcus Seyffarth wrote:But since you requested it and its a 2 minutes fix I added a checkbox "Discard reaction times" in the first page. It greys out the reaction time boxes so that you clearly see that there is something going on, and of course - it never fills them with reaction times.
I will download it tonight and give it a try.
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Marcus Seyffarth
- Posts: 607
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
Thanks Toby!
Now 3.3 is available. Same place;
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi
Toby, tell me more about the IGSA bracketing that you want.
Now 3.3 is available. Same place;
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi
Toby, tell me more about the IGSA bracketing that you want.
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Marcus Seyffarth
- Posts: 607
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
On another note, I'm not sure how the timer works in mode1 but in mode0 the time does not start running until the fourth beep, so starting one second earlier gives that you get a one second shorter time in the course than what you really had. So you really need to "add it back" using false start multiplier set to 1, to get the actual time.
i.e starting at the first beep give you a three second advantage and you would get 7.0 seconds even though you really spent 10 seconds in the course.
For those who look at the raw times during races its kind of interesting to know this, since if you false start it will look like you had a superfast rawtime, probably the fastest (raw)time of the day.
I have to try the Trackmate to know if its like this in mode1 as well.
i.e starting at the first beep give you a three second advantage and you would get 7.0 seconds even though you really spent 10 seconds in the course.
For those who look at the raw times during races its kind of interesting to know this, since if you false start it will look like you had a superfast rawtime, probably the fastest (raw)time of the day.
I have to try the Trackmate to know if its like this in mode1 as well.
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Marcus Seyffarth
- Posts: 607
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
version 3.3
Well that sucks that it affects both qulifications and eliminations... Never thought of that, and I haven't had the problem.
Normally people tend to start at the fourth beep so normally its not a big issue. However at the worlds this year it was a problem during the pro TS since the course was kind of hard and there was a lot of cones hit, so some riders just went really early (first beep) to get a clean course. I don't think anyone got banned but there was threats of DQ'ing people for doing this since it ruins the race for the audience.
Anyways, an easy solution would be to just write "0" in the reaction field whenever someone starts early (negative reaction) and the "0" would be transfered to the spread sheet once you click save. You probably know, but as a reminder, whatever you type in the textboxes will be transfered to the excelsheet when you click save, there is no magic.
But since you requested it and its a 2 minutes fix I added a checkbox "Discard reaction times" in the first page. It greys out the reaction time boxes so that you clearly see that there is something going on, and of course - it never fills them with reaction times.
I'm not able to upload the new 3.3 version until later today, but I could send it to you if you would like to test it.
/Marcus
Normally people tend to start at the fourth beep so normally its not a big issue. However at the worlds this year it was a problem during the pro TS since the course was kind of hard and there was a lot of cones hit, so some riders just went really early (first beep) to get a clean course. I don't think anyone got banned but there was threats of DQ'ing people for doing this since it ruins the race for the audience.
Anyways, an easy solution would be to just write "0" in the reaction field whenever someone starts early (negative reaction) and the "0" would be transfered to the spread sheet once you click save. You probably know, but as a reminder, whatever you type in the textboxes will be transfered to the excelsheet when you click save, there is no magic.
But since you requested it and its a 2 minutes fix I added a checkbox "Discard reaction times" in the first page. It greys out the reaction time boxes so that you clearly see that there is something going on, and of course - it never fills them with reaction times.
I'm not able to upload the new 3.3 version until later today, but I could send it to you if you would like to test it.
/Marcus
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Pat Chewning
- Pat C.
- Posts: 1400
- Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Portland Oregon
At Hood River we took 2X the early-start amount and applied that as a false-start penalty.
How did they do it at this year's Worlds and Hood? I think they both used Excelmate and newer Trackmate.
We did this for the Qualification rounds and for the Elimination rounds.
The ISSA rules call for using the 2X false start penalty for all runs, qualification and elimination. In fact the reason the ISSA rules are the same for all runs is specifically so that race organizers (and racers) do not have to remember different rules for each run.
I suggest that you run the race with the 2X false-start penalty for both qual and elim races....
-- Pat
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Miguel Marco
- Posts: 563
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- Location: Quebec, Canada
- Contact:
Then it seems to be a weird feature cause the "false start multiplication factor" can not be turned off (=0) for the quals and on (=2) for the elims in the spreadsheet. Every north american dual race (ISSA sanctioned or not) I have been to in the last 4 years has had the "go when you want to after the first beep" type of dual qualifications WITHOUT false start penalty, and "go on the 4th beep" type of dual eliminations WITH false start penalty. And this includes the ISSA sanctioned 2007 Worlds, amongst many others!Marcus Seyffarth wrote:As stated above its not a bug its a feature in the spread sheets. If you want the reaction/false start to be excluded just set the "false start multiplication factor" to 0 and you'll be fine (top left corner).
Now to do this using Excelmate and the dual spreadsheet I will have to manually erase every reaction time (at least the negative ones) before saving each run during the qualifications...
How did they do it at this year's Worlds and Hood? I think they both used Excelmate and newer Trackmate.
Marcus Seyffarth wrote:The Excelmate only sends the available data to the spread sheets and I don't wanna add any filters so this is gonna stay. Thank you for using the program and please keep using it!
Of course we will use it! But I must say this "feature" kind of negates some of the advantages (less waste of time between runs and less data manipulation by humans = less errors) the Excelmate/Trackmate 6.8 combo adds, since we will still have to do manual data manipulations (erasing reaction times) practically every run during dual quals. Thanks! I have 3.1, build date 2008 August 10.Marcus Seyffarth wrote:You can check what version of the excelmate you are running by looking in the top of the window when the program starts, it says version and build date.
Yes, I did notice that the racer who double DQed after only 2 runs ends up in 1st place. I will download the latest version then.Marcus Seyffarth wrote:I just uploaded a new version where the only change is in the spread sheets. A long time ago I added so that you can run 4 runs in single lane but missed the fact that if you only run 2 runs and people DQ both, then they dont have a valid time, so this have been a problem at the last races.
Thank you very much Marcus for Excelmate (great software!), your quick answers, and your patience!
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Marcus Seyffarth
- Posts: 607
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
Thanks Pat,
As stated above its not a bug its a feature in the spread sheets. If you want the reaction/false start to be excluded just set the "false start multiplication factor" to 0 and you'll be fine (top left corner). The Excelmate only sends the available data to the spread sheets and I don't wanna add any filters so this is gonna stay. Thank you for using the program and please keep using it!
You can check what version of the excelmate you are running by looking in the top of the window when the program starts, it says version and build date.
I just uploaded a new version where the only change is in the spread sheets. A long time ago I added so that you can run 4 runs in single lane but missed the fact that if you only run 2 runs and people DQ both, then they dont have a valid time, so this have been a problem at the last races. This is updated in this version that I called 3.2. Perhaps I should add a version number to the spreadsheets as well.
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi
As stated above its not a bug its a feature in the spread sheets. If you want the reaction/false start to be excluded just set the "false start multiplication factor" to 0 and you'll be fine (top left corner). The Excelmate only sends the available data to the spread sheets and I don't wanna add any filters so this is gonna stay. Thank you for using the program and please keep using it!
You can check what version of the excelmate you are running by looking in the top of the window when the program starts, it says version and build date.
I just uploaded a new version where the only change is in the spread sheets. A long time ago I added so that you can run 4 runs in single lane but missed the fact that if you only run 2 runs and people DQ both, then they dont have a valid time, so this have been a problem at the last races. This is updated in this version that I called 3.2. Perhaps I should add a version number to the spreadsheets as well.
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi