TrakMate 3.0 Food for Thought

[Brian Parsons]

I agree with WT. Not so much from a spectators perspective but from a racers perspective. Getting a good start is all part of the race.

Drag racing is based on reaction time. If its good enough for "Big Daddy" its good enough for me.

[Brian Parsons]

Hey, I never DQed you. But I will have my eagle eye on your crow hop tomorrow night. By the way, dont we have a grudge match to settle?

I like having the reaction time. I also like that the clock is running the same for each racer. When each racer starts there own lane clock it can distort the racers perception of their position in the course related to the other racer. For example racer A can cross the finish strip before racer B and still loose as a result of entering the course before racer B.

[Wesley Tucker]

Well, John, if Tway Von Neumann can program all that into his little box, then I say good luck.

It still sounds, though, awfully confusing and complicated just to start a race. Although I do like the idea of the .25 second allowance BEFORE the 4th beep. I'm tired of my PERFECT crow hop starts being called a DQ because Parson's eyesight is too lame to see my perfect timing in hitting the start line on "GO!"

[John Gilmour]

Wesley there is a very small "Start" window where you have to hit the tapeswitch to start YOUR clock.

If you hit the start tape between .25 seconds before the last beep or .5 seconds after it you'll start the clock.


If you miss the "Window" you get a DNS or False start. This method would reduce false starts since the start window is larger and doesn't penalize racers for not "nearly false starting".

The benefit is that if you practice your times will ALWAYS be rewarded. Since consecutive perfect starts are not currently possible it should not be something we use to determine the outcome of a race. Chicken is a fast racer I doubt his results would change much if this timer was used over the same courses he ran last year.

Also racers without access to a timer are not penalized.

Random results- if we want that type of racing we could hold a race in Vegas.

[John Gilmour]

It isn't nullified because the promoter can choose to use the reaction times or not.

As the field of racers grows- and I hope it does, you'll see many times within a few hundreths of a second of each other.

It is possible to always get "good" starts, but not to always get "Perfect" starts Ie cross the line within 1/100th of a second of go.

Take a stop watch with hundreths or thousandths of seconds start it and try to stop it at 4.01 (That is (4) 1 second beeps and then 1/100th of a second). A "perfect" start.

Good luck.

Now try to do that 10 consecutive times in a row. (What it would take to get to the top)

You'll see quickly that no one gets perfect starts all the time.

If it were a possible goal for slalom racers- then good, but it clearly is not. We won't have 10 top slalom racers that can produce 10 perfect starts say 95% of the time.

So if the top 40 racers through the course are within say .2 seconds of each other through the actual course and the "Start varience" is say .7 seconds over the same field. Then the start dominates the outcome of the race.

Since no amount of practice will yield 10 consecutive perfect starts. The winner is nearly always chosen at "random" in a field of fast closely packed racers.

Random results aren't racing.

[Wesley Tucker]

What am I missing here? Ok, so the fourth beep sounds and a racer can stand in the box til he finishes his sandwich and then go across the tape?

It seems this would really be confusing. Some guy in Lane One gets a great start, leaps out of the box and goes down the hill. Unfortunately, he's kind of slow and his time from tape-to-tape is 18.7.

The guy in lane two gets a lousy start, ties his shoe laces and then trips the start tape but has a blistering run and posts a 17.5.

So the audience sees the the guy in lane one start first and finish first, but the guy in lane two wins because his elapsed time is less? That's too screwy for words.

The 4th beep starts the race. When you hit the tape at the bottom of the hill you stop the clock. The first one from the 4th beep to the tape at the bottom wins. No confusion.

Again, let me ask the question: what am I missing?

[Terry Kirby]

the start is a component of the race, why nullify it?

[Adam Trahan]

I think the clock should start when the racer crosses the start line, the fourth beep is the indicator for the start window.

Example: 4 Beeps, 1 - 2 - 3 - START! You are FREE to enter the course. You have .5 second on each side of that beep to start the clock with your crossing the start switch or beam. Your entry into the course starts the clock not the beep. The 4th beep signifies the middle of the 1 second window of opportunity to start.

Think about what this programming reinforces.

Reaction time is still retained yet the course is ultimately timed on the racers performance and is not penalized harshly because of his or her start.

John Gilmour and I discussed this a little last night on the phone. I heard it from him (he thinks .75 second window) and I think it is a good idea.

[Terry Kirby]

Keep it Simple. The clock starts on the 4th beep. Why complicate things. T

[William Tway]

Ok everyone, we are in the final stages of development and need a little help from you...the racers. Before we burn version 3.0 (the Audio Start Edition), I have a few age old questions.

1) Should we program 3.0 to start the
clock(s) on the final (4th) beep?

2) Or should the clock(s) start when the racer(s) cross the first tape switch?

**Version 3.0 will record and display Reaction Times.

If you hear the 4th beep and are 1/4 second late starting, it will display +.250 and if you are a 1/4 of a second early a -.250 will be displayed and you are disqualified.
(Will this way cause too many DQ’s? Your final time will include your reaction time)

If the clock starts at the tape, a reaction time will still be recorded as above but your final time will be <i>actual</i> (will not include reaction time). Your reaction time may or may not have to be added by the scorer.

Reaction time has been debated many times on skateboard forums and some racers feel that it’s "ok" if you start 1/4 second too early and 1/2 second too late without being penalized.

What do you think?

Unfortunately this new system will not be on display at this years G3. Instead of rushing to get it done, we want to do it right. As soon as I read your responses and engage in a few discussions with the good people at the G3, we will burn version 3.0.

Thanks you for your help and patients.

Tway