ISSA - International Slalom Skateboarding Association

Marcus Seyffarth wrote:I'm not sure, but I don't think the reaction times are computed into the total time.

They are when it's a false start. I just retested it.

Marcus Seyffarth wrote:What version of the excelmate are you running?

I installed it on august 14 from the link you posted on august 10, so I assume it's the latest. How do I determine it?

Marcus Seyffarth wrote:I will look into this as soon as I have a chance.

We will be using it at the Can/Am Slalom Championships in Antrim NH next weekend. I won't have internet access starting thursday around noon. Any chance of a new version before that?

In Dan's spreadsheet, there is usually a single place to fill in the "Start Penalty" multiplier.

It is usually on the "Qualification" sheet.

It is usually 2X the early start amount.

It applies to times recorded in Duals and in Elims.

This is consistent with the ISSA rules (start penalty is 2X the early-start amount).

This applies to qualifications, single-lane races, dual-lane races.

-- Pat

I'm not sure, but I don't think the reaction times are computed into the total time. I believe the reaction time is there just to give you a hunch of if you are fast or slow out of the ramp. Perhaps I'm wrong, otherwise it is a bug. What version of the excelmate are you running? I will look into this as soon as I have a chance.

Marcus,

With the Trackmate in mode 1 (single lane/dual quals/4 standard beeps) and in dual quals spreadsheet, I still get a reaction time sent to the spreadsheet (and doubled when start is before the 4th beep) as if it was in mode 0 and dual elims spreadsheet. It shouldn't be that way since racers in dual quals should be able to start when they want after the first beep without penalties.

Why is there reaction times and false start penalties in Dan's dual quals spreadsheet anyway?

Have I done something wrong or is our brand new Trackmate not "up to date"??? (It says version 6.8W at boot time and times over 65 seconds do work...)

Otherwise, Excelmate works fantastically well!

I just installed version 6.8 on my trackmate that can output times on the seriall port that are greater than 65 seconds and it seems to work just fine.

A new version is out - 3.1.

The new thing in this version is a button so that you can look up the event id for live reporting. In other words no real changes unless you use live reporting.

However the spreadsheets that are shipped with the product is also updated. The new ones have masters added to the list of classes and the ones in the older versions have invalid references in them, making the eliminations go bananas if the different classes have different max cone count or different DQ penalty. Basically get the latest version and delete your old ones.

The live reporting was used at the worlds in some classes and to me it seemed to work very good, I was able to follow the races on the web browser in my phone while eating lunch. Pretty cool!

As usual the latest version is available at:
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

/Marcus

As Marcus says the latest software patch is 6.8 and you can get it from either me, Corky or Marcus.

Use an old fashioned terminal emulator program to upload the new patch.

This will only work if you have a recent version of TrackMate. Bought wihtin the last year (approximately).

This version has the standard beeps in qualifying mode. And random waiting time before the 4:th beep in Final mode.

The bug with times (exported to PC) over 60 secs has been corrected.

/Jani

I'll look you up tomorrow.
I'll try the firmware next week.

There is a firmware update for the trackmate already. Its version 6.8 and nothing else should be changed. However I have not had the time to install it and try it, but please do and let us know if there are any other problems.

About the IGSA bracketing, I'm not sure what it is but let me know and I'll think about it!

Hmm, I have looked at Excelmate now, and it couldn't be easier!
I you like, it would be very cool to have that button. If you can have it done by the 8th, I'd be happy!

Is there some way to automatically group the riders according to the IGSA brackets for the race? If not, maybe it's doable in some other version?

We have a slalom race on the 5th, but even if we are slow, I doubt that we will need more than 65 seconds, hehe.
The downhill race is on the 9th, and it will be longer than 65 seconds.

Since I haven't recieved the Trackmate yet, I don't really know how it works, and I can't really say if we will use Excelmate.
Maybe the wise thing to do is to skip it and concentrate on getting the Trackmate up and running first.

at least someone brought their brain to the discussion...

When is the race, will you be using the excelmate? If so then I could add a button that adds 65535 to the time (until the real fix is in place) if you want.

67969-2433=65536
69616-4080=65536
75414-9878=65536
122248-56712=65536

Seems like you are right.

This would mean that we have to work by hand on our upcoming downhill race.
Very valuable to get this info before the race. Good work!

it is probably a 16-bit integer number storing in 1/1000th seconds---

therefore it will count to 65535 (65.535 s) and then start over fron 0.

===================


my pain meds are affecting me -- I just posted the same info as marcus ....

I just debuged the program and it seems like there is some problem with the trackmate when the time hits 65-66 seconds. The time looks fine on the display, but the times being sent to the computer are all wrong. We need to speak to Daniel Groloux about this.

Here are a couple of examples that I just got:

Trackmate display shows: 1:00.109
Computer gets string "@01L1T60109" (i.e 60109 milliseconds, or 60.080 seconds) - OK!

Trackmate display shows: 1:03.211
Computer gets string "@01L0T63211" (i.e 63211 milliseconds, or 63.211 seconds) -OK!

Trackmate display shows: 1.07.969
Computer gets string "@01L0T2433" (i.e 2433 milliseconds, or 2.433 seconds) - False!

Trackmate display shows: 1:09.616
Computer gets string "@01L0T4080" (i.e 4080 milliseconds, or 4.080 seconds) - False!

Trackmate display shows: 1:15.414
Computer gets string "@01L0T9878" (i.e 9878 milliseconds, or 9.878 seconds) - False!

Trackmate display shows: 2:02.248
Computer gets string "@01L1T56712" (i.e 56712 milliseconds, or 56.712 seconds) - False!

Perhaps Daniel is using a 16 bit integer to hold the data (which can only count to 65535).

Anyways, we will need to get a new firmware to use the trackmate serial output for times over 65 seconds.

/Marcus

no internet --- didn't try live update.

times ranged from 74 sec to 100 sec

I'm glad that it worked!

I'll look at the single lane thing. How long where the runs? More than 100 seconds?

Did you try the "live" thing or didn't you have time/internet? I just noted that no times were posted.

Daniel Gesmer wrote:Thanks to ExcelMate, I think the Hybrid and Tight slalom at Hood River ran more efficiently than any race I've ever helped at. Great work Marcus!

However, we experienced errors during the Giant Slalom, possibly because the times were always over a minute. ExcelMate entered incorrect times into the spreadsheet, so we switched to manual data entry. Marcus, can you speculate on what happened?

yes, it went very smoothly. thanks dan & marcus

Thanks to ExcelMate, I think the Hybrid and Tight slalom at Hood River ran more efficiently than any race I've ever helped at. Great work Marcus!

However, we experienced errors during the Giant Slalom, possibly because the times were always over a minute. ExcelMate entered incorrect times into the spreadsheet, so we switched to manual data entry. Marcus, can you speculate on what happened?

I like the layout with the right lane displayed on the right and the left lane displayed on the left.

I like the drop-downs for cone count entry.

I like the drop-down for the DQ entry.


SUGGESTION #1: When you "DQ" a racer : Instead of just entering "DQ" into the raw time field, can you prepend the letters "DQ" onto the actual time?

WAS: "DQ"
IS: "DQ12.768"

In this way, if for some reason you eventually want to "undo" the DQ, you will have saved the raw time information and it can be recovered by deleting the "DQ" letters in the cell entry.

SUGGESTION #2: Can there be a "Save BOTH" button? Instead of individually saving right lane and left lane -- one button to do both?

Looks like a real winner. I still need my new Trackmate hardware (should be here today).

The 2.5 version had a bug when saving times, so anyone that has that version should upgrade to 3.0 which is available now. Apart from that there is no new functionality added, just that you have 2 different layouts to choose from. If you try the program, please let me know if any layout is better than the other and how they can be improved.

Download version 3.0 at:
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

Also I just got Trackmate version 6.7 from Jani with updates:
-Cadence beeps in qualify/single lane
-Shorter wait for final beep in random/Elimination mode.

Thank you! /Marcus

We want to use the Trackmate version 6.??? for the upcoming race in Hood River. (Connect to computer and download the times).

Does anyone have one we can buy, beg, borrow, or rent?

Please let me know......

Thanks,

-- Pat

Ed note: I answered off line. /Jani

Anyone manged to get this work with OpenOffice Calc?

Wat Jani Said! Thanks for all your hard work on this, Marcus!

Many Thanks for all your efforts Marcus. It worked flawlessly during the Trocadero Grand Prix last weekend. Dan several time said "this is the best system we've ever had".

/Jani

Thank you for using the Excelmate during the PSWC2008, now since it was used with great success (at least from what I understood) hopefully more races will use it and soon the online part will be used as well.

Dan Gesmer gave me some feedback after the race so a new version with some minor changes are avaliable, thank you Dan!

New features in v2.5:
- No colors on the rider name dropdowns
- The name (and path) of the Excel file is shown in the top of the window
- DQ is added to the end of the cones dropdown. Simply hit "d" or select it and you can DQ a rider.
- The dropdowns with rider names move down two steps in the list during head to head when you save (and one step down during single lane).
- The colors are no longer windows theme based, but black and white.
- The manual is updated.

http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

I think that is it. Now download it and use it!

Thank you! /Marcus

I'm glad you tried it, and happy that you liked it!

In order to be able to run 2 display applications on one computer I have compiled 2 different versions that uses different internal .Net threads and delegate names. Computer mumbo jumbo, but trust me its got to be that way if you intend to show both lanes on one computer.

Download them at:
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/SlalomDisp ... pLane1.msi
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/SlalomDisp ... pLane2.msi

The latest version of the Excelmate v2.3 is also available at:
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

New features in this version are:
- Compatible with excel 2000 and later (thank you Jani for pointing this out and helping to fix it!).
- Selectable trackmate version (6.5 and up or below)

I have tried it some and it seems to run well. Please try it and get back with feedback.

For the first time I sat down with ExcelMate and tried it out. It's really cool, and should come in handy for next weeks race in Paris - Trocadero Grand Prix.

With the new feature added by Daniel (Trackmate designer) Marcus' display output should be OK too. I didn't test that part of the system but Marcus will certainly report back on it as soon as he's updated the software in his timer too.

Well done, Marcus!

(We probably won't be using the live reporting part, at least we haven't thought of that aspect just yet).

/Jani

Marcus, i really would be interested to get either target to be editable.
And to get insructions to set up web site
Just need to find way to pay you back, hmmm, i might have something on my mind.

Well lets just say that it hasn't been a rush to use the system... So any plausible users could get their features added.

As it is now the official excelmate version targets worldcupranking.com but the one we use for local stockholm races uses ettsexett.com as target. I could of course either put in a dropdown with available targets, or compile a special version just for you, its just that someone needs to build that target webpage and handle the requests but once that is done I'd be more than happy. I someone is interested I could even supply the SQL tables that I use.

/Marcus

Marcus Seyffarth wrote:The new version brings you live results to the web. No more waiting for results, no more looking for results, and for the organizer - no more posting results after a long day at the race. Its all live its all free and its all good.

Any chance to get target web page to be configurable?
Would be nice feature for local races

Marcus Seyffarth wrote:I don't think its a problem getting the running time to work ok in dual lane mode. However in single lane mode, people can start whenever they want after the beeps (sometime we don't even use the beeps in single lane) and the trackmate does not output any reaction time at all so we can't adjust the time to that either. Perhaps Daniel at Trackmate could do a firmware upgrade so that it outputs a "0.00" reaction time whenever the racer crosses the starting line. Then it would be possible.

Daniel just did. I paid him to implement this new feature. We hope we can use it for Paris in a couple of weeks!

Logically you should get this feature if you get a brand new timer from now on (I assume they will be called 6.4). Probably some of the older timers (6.3 and maybe 6.2) could be patched to receive this functionality too, but I don't know yet.

Marcus Seyffarth wrote:I just got an email back from Howard (gunfighter.com) and he does not sell the display alone. I guess it must be someone that manufactures these where we can buy them, or some other display that we could use.

I have asked many times. GunFighter responded that anyway the display can't connect to a PC. In the mean time I already had a contact with a shop in Paris and they haven't been able to tell me yet. I also asked the head quarters in HK, but no reply from them. I'll try to call them to see if that is any better.

/Jani

Ok a new version is out. This is 2.2 and the difference is that in dual lane qualification you do not need to have reaction times. In most head 2 head qualifications the time is recorder from when you leave and not when the beep is, so in order to avoid the annoying "There is no reaction time supplied" message, this check is left out from now on.

Also from now on the times sent to the web is sent to www.worldcupranking.com/live

So please check out the latest racing at that site.

In order to make life even easier for organizers you can now let people sign up to your race at www.worldcupranking.com/live

If you choose to use this registration you have free registration that automatically closes one week ahead of the race and we will supply you with the spreadsheets with all riders and their names spelled correctly and everything 2 days after the registration closes.

Get your latest copy (version 2.2) of the excelmate at www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

/Marcus

Ok, so a new version is out this is version 2.1. It contains a few less bugs, and a single lane template that can hold up to 4 runs. Of course the program needs to take care of this too, so I've thrown out a few annoying 'are you sure' and instead just fill the bracket with data until its full and then you get the question which run you would like to replace.

Its a small step in the rigth direction. You really should try it, you don't even need a skateboard or a trackmate to try the program.

download program from:
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

At the website I've added stats and soon you will be possible to have race registration at the site as well. At the same time we will move it to http://www.worldcupranking.com

http://www.ettsexett.com/live

Markus, If the Mac port isn't too difficult, I'd love to get a try at it.
After a lot of headaches with homemade timers I'm about to get a TrackMate- and you've made the system complete!
Supposedly Mac OSX is a lot easer to port to now. I don't know. If so, I'd appreciate it. Please don't sweat it if it is a big job, really.

Thanks

Nice!

I'll schedule the events. For each event just let me know
-race type (single lane/head 2 head)
-date for the event
-course type (special/hybrid/GS/straight/cyber)
-cones (just approx)
-penalty
-classes (am,pro,wo,jr,open)
-start type (individual, DQ on early, 2X on early or 3X on early)

And then some additional info about the race and the ISSA status

Once this is done I'll hook you up with a supersecret reportingId, and you can start testing the stuff if you like, and I'll just reset all test data the day before the event.

/Marcus

hey marcus
let me try it out at our race in april
we have a change of date
april 12/13
i really want to have a go with that system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now we're talking! Way to go Marcus.

Ok, the ExcelMate 2.0 is ready to download and use. Find your free version at:
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

The new version brings you live results to the web. No more waiting for results, no more looking for results, and for the organizer - no more posting results after a long day at the race. Its all live its all free and its all good.

All you need is a computer with internet access (wireless LAN, wireless internet connection or mobile phone - the application only sends 200 bytes per saved race so the cost is nothing), a TrackMate with PC out and finally the Excelmate program.

I've created a webpage where the results are posted by the application. The page consist of 2 parts, live results where you can follow the race with automatic updates every 10 seconds, and previous results where you can find results from all rounds of past races.

The page is very basic and very "light" in order to work on mobile devices. If the organizer chooses to use the Excelmate and uses the live reporting function you can put up banners at the race so that spectators and racers can follow the race while its happening. You can also put up computers where this page is shown as a service to spectators and racers. No need to look over the sholder of the timekeeper. Once the data is saved - it is live on the internet!

All this is live and working at the moment. However I will continue to add statistics, racer profiles and add more races to the database so it will continue to grow.

Check it out and let me know what you think! Also please try it out at a small race in order to get familiar with the system. Its very easy to use, but practice makes perfect.

If you would like to use this at a race, contact me and I'll schedule a race for you and set you up with your live reporter ID that is needed in order to use it.

http://live.ettsexett.com (2014 update: no longer exists)
http://www.ettsexett.com/live (2014 update: no longer exists)

/Marcus

Since the display system relies on serial communication and I guess it would be nice to have a display at the bottom of the course I started googling for what distance you could expect it to work. Then I found this device a rs232 -> bluetooth that works over more than 100m. If you use this device there would be no need for cables at all, and you could move the displays pretty much where ever you want then... SWEEEET!

http://www.elfa.se/elfa-bin/setpage.pl? ... k=9450.htm

Dans spreadsheet doesnt work with openoffice , or it 'nearly' did but I got a ton of erroneous columns and stuff.

I ended up downloading a trial 30day of excel..... and borrow a laptop with excel on it for Cadwell.

As for live feeds, it isnt that hard to set up a webcam if a wifi connection is available. But too many of our races in the UK arnt near a base, even using a 'cantenna' .....but with 3g phones it may be one way to do it. Whilst of course the competitors wont use the facility, I do feel its important for racers around the world to be able to dip in to a live feed, and I also think speedy uploading of results (even unverified) is important. Being able to determine WHO is racing on a webcam feed would be the next step.....But if your using a spreadsheet then the two racers will be on the screen in some form, so it cant be beyond the skills of you lot to be able to put those names under a feed....

One day, one day.

point taken, but we have one more year to figure out a solution for all the others.

Marcus Seyffarth wrote:Then in 2009 we will introduce the digital implants on all racers and track them 24/7 with GPS

That will only work for the skaters on this planet.

Thank you Carl!

Carl Crieder wrote:1. Where can I get the code?

- I can upload the whole project to the same place as where the program is now and post a link here, experience tells me no one downloads and looks at it so I haven't bothered this time. Its written in .Net C# using framework 2.0/visual studio 2005

Carl Crieder wrote:2. Has this been tested on 64bit systems?

- No I don't have a 64 bit computer, but its just a matter of choosing destination platform in the configuration manager. This current version should probably work using both x86 and x64.

Carl Crieder wrote:3. Which version[s] of Excel/Office was this written for? Meaning, is it going to be back-compatible for those folks using older Office versions?

- As far as I know its not a big problem with the versions. You should probably ask Dan Gesmer what the excel spreadsheet needs. Perhaps it works with open office as well?

It is interesting questions that you ask me and I'm glad that you are enthusiastic about it. But lets be honest here, if we get 5 persons in the world to use this program it means that pretty much every timed race the coming season will use it. I'm sure we could add lots of cool stuff with databases, webservers, live feeds and everything. But we are still at the level where its a bonus if a printer exist at a race. Lets see if we can get this accepted and used and perhaps we get less errors, less time when nothing happens at races at the cost of a serial cable and a new trackmate.

Then in 2009 we will introduce the digital implants on all racers and track them 24/7 with GPS

Well done, Marcus. I'll set up a PC to PC test at home. I'd like to see this sort
of thing work with Open Office as well, but I'll see what I can get going. It won't
happen over night, as work is taking my time right now. In the end, I'll write/test
a couple of scripts that can dump the race info as html and upload the file[s] to a
web server; possibly a blog.

Questions for you:

1. Where can I get the code?
2. Has this been tested on 64bit systems?
3. Which version[s] of Excel/Office was this written for? Meaning, is it going
to be back-compatible for those folks using older Office versions?

Thanks for making your code available.

-Carl

Hey, You tried it! Thank you!

The program looks for "qual" in the workbook name in order to know if it is head to head finals or qualification. Since the single lane template is the same as the qualification for head to head, I really haven't used it. But if you rename the workbook to something with "qual" as part of the name it will start working.

I can add a checkbox for single lane in order to get around this naming problem, but I just didn't think it would be necessary. That is if I remembered to tell you all about it...

Michael, it's wise to use the virtual desktop for additional screens close to the timingbooth, but what about if you wish to keep the timebooth at the start and have a display at the bottom of the race, then you'd need 200m of screen cable. If you get WLAN in there you could hook up 15 laptops all over the area showing the times. It's just an idea, perhaps there are some other much better ideas.

The single-lane template does not seem to work. I cannot select any of the racer names (after entering them into the spreadsheet).

The program works great for the dual-lane though......

Marcus, I'm sure your aware that Windows XP can work in multiple screen mode, either cloning the desktop to other screens, or more usefully extending the desktop to other directions. I think you can use 12 or 16 screens even with the right video card.

For desktops the cards are readily available, for a laptop its more of a problem.

You would then only need to open the timer windows on the main monitor, then drag them to a second, and third screen. You could for example have all the admin on one screen. The Spreadsheet open on a second, and the stopwatches on more monitors.

I dont see why you need more than one computer, or a network.

Perhaps I should clarify that in order to test this program you don't need one of the new version trackmates. In fact you don't need anything else than a PC.

If you wish to try the display together with the progam you can either set up 2 computers with a seriall cable between OR install this http://www.eltima.com/download/vspdxp/.

It is a program that acts as one or many virtual serial ports on the computer so you can connect two of these virtual ports on your computer, making it possible to run the program and the display on the same computer (its very easy program just install and click yes basically)

Once all is started (the ExcelMate and the slalomDisplay and the ports are connected). Start the running time on the display by clicking "Start/Reset" on the ExcelMate and after 4 seconds the time should start running. Stop the time by entering anything in the "raw time" field (just like the Trackmate would if it was connected).

Now get started with the testing and the feedback...!

/Marcus

The display only shows the time for one lane/racer so in order to show both lanes you need two computers with one screen each. I guess you could run two instances of the display program on one computer and have the displays set next to eachother or under each other. However I guess for clarity it would be best to have one display/computer for each lane and put then on different sides of the road or so. At the moment it's serial communication from the time keeping computer to the display monitors (same communication as to one of the Alge Timing displays). If this application is a smashing sucess and we don't find any real displays but stick to computers, perhaps some kind of network solution would be better, so that we can have multiple screens using wireless LAN or something like that.

Thanks for the thoughts on font's, I'll supply some useful fonts with installation of the display. You can still choose any font that is available on the computer that the display is run at.