[2007] Paris Slalom World Cup 2007, May 26-28, 2007

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Its getting close! Almost time to start practice... I have a few questions;
It said when I paid the entry fee that there should be a prize purse in the pro class. Nice! How will it be divided? Does Luca get it all, or will Ramón get some as well? Is it from 1-3 or 1-5 or even 1-8?

Is it combined or is it in each race? If overall, will you use the strange "your best 2 results overall" calculation, or the more realistic "all races combined" overall calculation?

Have you made any deciscions about the lifting of wheels?

I really like that you put all the previous results on the PSWC homepage!

Thanks! /Marcus

[Gustavs Gailitis]

I have found a place to stay, thank you all!

[Gustavs Gailitis]

Hi! I will be first time to Paris Slalom World Cup. This time my father will not come to France so I will come alone. I would like to stay in some French slalomer family. I am 17 year old slalomer from Riga. At high school I am learning French so it could be a great possibility to improve my language skills. It would be fine to stay with someone who is planning to come to World Baltic Sea Cup in Jurmala.

[Vincent Berruchon]

hey i registered and paid using paypal...the one i was told to and recieved and emial confirming ive paid and on this site is says ive registered but not paid...whats going on do i have to pay again or something?

Hi Katii, you can ask for this kind of things directly by email: pswc [AT] riderz [DOT] net
I don't think everybody here is interested by your problem, as they should really mind what we will vote (but just know that mini-Stalone's friends don't want us to have a real giant in the Trocadero disctrict)

I remind everybody that the paypal payment should always precise in comments the name of the racer(s). If your parents, friends or company have paid, how the people managing payment can guess it's linked to your registration without your name included in the payment infos.

Katii, send us more precisions (especially the paypal account and date) by email or PM by I'm quite sure that they are wondering who is Lisa W. who didn't register.

[Katii Campbell]

thanks for those who already paid their registrations.

Received payment are visible here :
http://event.riderz.net/pswc/index.php? ... mp&lang=us


Hey others, use Paypal, it will be time saved for the D day (but we know some countries can't use paypal)

hey i registered and paid using paypal...the one i was told to and recieved and emial confirming ive paid and on this site is says ive registered but not paid...whats going on do i have to pay again or something?

[Hans Lucas]

BUT IT IS JANI, ONE OF THEM MIGHT GRANT A GS STREET IN PARIS, THE OTHER MIGHT NOT.

Sorry about the cap look.

See Poll (valid up until May 7; the day after the elections):
"Who should become the next president in France?"
viewtopic.php?p=46904#46904

[Peter Klang]

BUT IT IS JANI, ONE OF THEM MIGHT GRANT A GS STREET IN PARIS, THE OTHER MIGHT NOT.

Sorry about the cap look.

[Jani Soderhall]

This is a skateboard forum. Keep your vote and comments to yourself unless it matters to slalom skateboarding.

/Jani

[Donald Campbell]

we vote for the MILF HUNTER!

yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Peter Klang]

My beloved French fellow Europeans are making a choice, a vote for a new president.
Who are the candidates, I don’t really know there politics but I have notices Nicolas Sakozy looks a lot like Sylvester Stallone and Ségoléne Royal like a MILF.

Who are you voting for?

[Guillaume Saint-Criq]

hu sorry for my LACK of english speaking

[Guillaume Saint-Criq]

thanks for those who already paid their registrations.

Received payment are visible here :
http://event.riderz.net/pswc/index.php? ... mp&lang=us


Hey others, use Paypal, it will be time saved for the D day (but we know some countries can't use paypal)

[Peter Klang]

How much is a RACK? or a pack of racks?

[Donald Campbell]

ok pack or no pack guillaume
uuuhhhhh you irritated me uuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Guillaume Saint-Criq]

Steve

entry fee informations are on the registration page

it is 100 EUR for Pro, 50 EUR for Am when you take the PACK:
this is for 3 disciplines, 3 meals and race tshirt


AM only can register without pack:

• 20 EUR for 1 race
  35 EUR for 2 races
  45 EUR for 3 races

edit : Vinzzz is so fast

[Vincent Berruchon]

I couldn't find any information about the entry fee. How much is it?

Choose your "class" on the application form and you'll see the price at the end of the page.

For your information:
PRO Pack = 100€ including
- registration for the 3 days of race Straight, Special, Giant
- longskate contest (slide and challenges)
- 3 meals
- event collector tshirt
PRO MUST REGISTER WITH THE FULL PACK

AMs Pack =50€ including
- registration for the 3 days of race Straight, Special, Giant
- longskate contest (slide and challenges)
- 3 meals
- event collector tshirt

Amateurs and Womens can also register only for the races they want:
1 Discipline 20 Eur
2 Disciplines 35 Eur
3 Disciplines ou plus 45 Eur

It's probably not corrected on the website but slide contest only is 10€, and free if you register for at least one slalom race.

[Steve Hinzen]

I couldn't find any information about the entry fee. How much is it?

[Vincent Berruchon]

PSWC 2007 REGISTRATIONS OPEN

Please follow the instructions on the website
direct link: http://event.riderz.net/pswc/index.php? ... ns&lang=us

The maximum number of racers is set to 100 including 50 amateurs (increased to 60 if total racers < 100).
Pay to validate your registration and be sure to be part of this 5th birthday edition!

To pay with paypal:
Because of problem with our Paypal account (the worst customer service in the place!! but we)
The email adress has changed:
USE paiement.afd@free.fr ONLY
And please precise "Riderz PSWC 2007" in the comments / subject of the paypal payment! because this address is not used only for PSWC registration.
Please, be careful give us all the informations to link your payment to your registration without long investigations.
So in the comments don't forget to add the racer(s) name(s), especially if the account is not the one of a racer.

You can look at payment information here: http://event.riderz.net/pswc/index.php? ... ns&lang=us

[Donald Campbell]

i think this whole thread turns out to be more or less delicate too,eh?

[Hans Lucas]

Ah, maybe he means "very close" cones, which should be accessed in a delicate (slow) way.

[Donald Campbell]

maybe he's talking about his spelling which is delicate?
or about the old parisian tradition to place candy on some cones to please the riders?
who knows,only stefano maybe...

[Hans Lucas]

you have to go 90% full speed but you have "delicates" gates as well.

"delicates"? What do you mean?

[Stefano Bellingeri]

Dear all,
come'on, for pros is fine 1.80 for the tight (usually I run with the giant board on 2.00 m distance) and a special as last year. It was the best special course of the season.
It is my personal opinion that courses have to be technical for the pros. You should not be able to run "full throttle" all the course. Exactly as it happens on skiing competitions where you have to go 90% full speed but you have "delicates" gates as well.
I'm for really technical stuff.
CU there

[Donald Campbell]

at the last great western we had the tight course set the same way it is supposed to be at the troca this year.
fact is that the speed is a bit higher than the troca in the lower section of our hill.
we didn't face such big problems with cone splattering as some people might see it here.

[Karl Floitgraf]

The less cone splatter the quicker the whole event runs: that is a very good thing, especially with this many people.

[Hans Lucas]

flavio:
you have to put some trust into what experienced riders say
troca is fast.
we will build the ramps for this years event and these will add to the factor too.
visit the event,skate the course competitively and then you are able to give comments on the cone setting.

I agree totally; normally I would vote for 1.90m for amateurs, but I know Troca is very hard; I've been there soooo many vacations and was never able to finish the TS on 2m all the way to the end, even though I never used a starting ramp there. (I skate slalom since about 1980)
Also, experienced local AM riders should take into consideration that they have a big advantage; they have (sometimes) been able to skate Troca for years, as many hours/day as they want, unlike the foreigners.
At home I can make the 1,50m at full speed on an inclinement; still I know Troca might be too hard for me on 2m. But let's await the pre-contest trainings there and then decide.

[Hans Koraeus]

Am straight
Even for Pros 2m have been hard to make clean the past years. I think it is too tough for the AM's. Especially since most does not know how to set up their boards so it will just be too fast in the end. 2.20 is scary enough for most AM's.

Pro straight
1.80 for the Pro's will have cones spraying. Fortunatly most Pro's have mastered the technique of getting the front trucks to turn ridicously sharp and fast. And by this they can go fast and still control their speed, if they want. The problem is when competition day is there nobody want to think about holding back, and we have the cone spraying party.

Start
I agree with Jani that 2x penalty is not enough for start penalty. I think the solution is if you go too early you get a base penalty, for example like a cone 0.1 sec. Then on top of that you can add the 2 x "milliseconds before start" to punish more those who goes very early against those who just get a little bit too early. Ex: if you are 0.01 too early you get 0.10 + 2x0.01 = 0.12 penalty. This then gets the minimum "false start" penalty. If you are 0.08 too early you get 0.10 + 2x0.08 = 0.26 penalty. Best is of course random if you have a timer that can manage to really do neutral random starts.

Pro special
I was a lot responsible for last years special course for the Pros. It was technical and something you could not just race full speed from start. Neither could you keep your body in one place and just let the lower body stretch out take all the offset cones. You where forced to move the whole package (whole body) sideways. And with the hill just trying to pull you strongly straight down you had to fight hard against that. These are funny courses and a real challange for Pros but... on race day you can't set courses that are on the limit of your capacity. Beacuse racers don't have enough time to dial in the course. Race day will make it hard to hold back and you will go too fast and start spraying cones. It does not make the pros look good. And like last year when you where really forced to go slow in the start to make it through some tech sections in the beginning it did not look so good. Why are the Pros goins so slow? They don't seem so good? The audience can't judge the difficulty of the course.

I.e. yes set a challenging tech course. But not for Luca and Ramon, for the mid pack pros. Running a hard tech course at home over and over again is not the same as on race day where maybe you will only get 2 practice runs and then it is competition run.

Just my two pennys.

[silvio strimer]

when is the registration open ?

[Paul Price]

My vote is for 2 dual races, GS if there is time on the Trocodero hill. Better for racers and spectators.

I also hate false starts and people jumping the start - so favour the 5 seconds warning type start as long as it is random.

Also a .2 second penalty, going fast is easy, missing the cones is the hard part

Looking forward to seeing the crowd this year!

[Karl Floitgraf]

I have never been to the Trocodaro before so I don't know anything about the venue and I think those people who do know the specific venue should decide for the race courses.

I've been moving my way slooooowly up the Amatuer division over the past four years. I think 2 meters is good for the open group. This is not a longboard slalom outlaw event, this is the Paris World Cup. I believe there should be challenging courses.

Open class riders can run technical courses, just not as fast as the pros.

[Donald Campbell]

no worries marcus
paris ramps will be easy and with a nice tranny,but flavio should be concerned when he comes to the G.O.G. race.
har har har

[Flavio Badenes]

flavio:
you have to put some trust into what experienced riders say
troca is fast.
we will build the ramps for this years event and these will add to the factor too.
visit the event,skate the course competitively and then you are able to give comments on the cone setting.

Don,

I agree, like I already said, I apologize, I am new to racing in Europe and I do agree I need to see what the races are like before I can say anything.

I look forward to competing in France, I think it is a great place to be at, that is if survive your ramp this weekend, of course

[Marcus Seyffarth]

we will build the ramps for this years event and these will add to the factor too.

We as in you and Herr Hinzen? Should I be scared?

[Donald Campbell]

flavio:
you have to put some trust into what experienced riders say
troca is fast.
we will build the ramps for this years event and these will add to the factor too.
visit the event,skate the course competitively and then you are able to give comments on the cone setting.

[Flavio Badenes]

I think trocadero is steep and fast, faster then most hills, skate it first and then talk.
No bad vibes, just that we go through this every year.
1,80 for the PROS great
2,00 for the AMS bad. Very bad acually.

PK

Oooppss, now I am getting the idea that the Trocadero is the Signal Hill of slalom skateboarding

Anyways you are right Peter let me skate there first then I can talk, I agree. I apologize I didn't mean to pry.

[Peter Klang]

I think trocadero is steep and fast, faster then most hills, skate it first and then talk.
No bad vibes, just that we go through this every year.
1,80 for the PROS great
2,00 for the AMS bad. Very bad acually.

PK

[Flavio Badenes]

Ok, I do see your point Marcus. maybe we could have different distances between cones for different types of events. So for example a Prime event would have x as distance between cones for the PRO´s and Y for the AMs and a World event would have X - 1 for the PRO´s and Y - 1 for the AM´s.

[Marcus Seyffarth]

It's a wide span among the ams, and the ones being able to run 1.80 or 2.00 clean at Troca should probably consider moving up.

From what I've understood the pro/am thing was introduced to let less experienced racers in to the slalom scene. By making the courses equally hard we kind of close that door. Depending of what the purpose of the race is (spread the slalom wibe and let everyone participate OR have a high level competition) you should probably keep it simple for the ams OR consider having only one class, running one course. Also remember that the juniors run the am course as it is today.

[Flavio Badenes]

With all the respect, I am new to slalom racing in Europe, but I have been skating long enough to have very good reasons to say that the amateurs can do 2mts and some of them even the 1,80.

[Peter Klang]

I think it all sounds great. It will keep the race running and no delays.

PK

[Jani Soderhall]

This gives that by using the 2x penalty you get penalized equally by starting 0.2 early as if you start 0.2 late. Which some consider being wrong or little.

Most races seems to be using 2x, so we are just trying to accept the already used method, rather than re-invent something. But personally I think it's too little. But maybe we should have a general discussion, not PSWC specific, on that topic. But then again, there's more action going on in the race topics than in the rules topics at this moment in time.

/Jani

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Though you might add (like Jani said a few posts back) that the Trackmate clock doesn't start running until the fourth beep, so if you leave 0.2 secs early your time in the course will be 0.2 less than if you would have started exactly on the beep. So by adding 0.4 you actually only add 0.2 secs penalty, the other 0.2 seconds is to adjust the time so that it is correct.

This gives that by using the 2x penalty you get penalized equally by starting 0.2 early as if you start 0.2 late. Which some consider being wrong or little. I think it's ok, you still try to leave as close to the beep as possible.

[Ramón Königshausen]

Geht klar, danke.

rmn

[Jonathan Harms]

"2x" means a penalty of two times the amount of false start. If you start .1 second early, you'd get .2 seconds added to your time. If you jump by .04, you'd get .08 added. Und so weiter.

[Ramón Königshausen]

Sorry that I ask, maybe I've just skipped that, but what exactly is "2x penalty"?

Double the time of a cone penalty, thus 0.2 sec?

rmn

[Vincent Berruchon]

I hope to see you in Paris Keith

Here are the answers to your questions:

Will the tight be 1.8m for the pros?(I have read it will, but is it for sure. I hope so)
YES

Will the GS be on another hill? (I have read it will and it will not. I like dual Hybrid.)
Probably not - we lost a lot of time on that - we're sorry we are still threats to public order - could be on another slope in the gardens but just a little steeper and not much long, hard for public and organization, so does it worse to change... We know that you like to ride the Trocadero

Will the false start double your penalty?(I think it should and it works very well.)
YES

Will there be prize money and pay to what place?
YES paid with cash euros on site as usual

[Keith Hollien]

I am still trying to figure out if I can afford to make it to Paris then Hannover, but I have a couple of questions.

Will the tight be 1.8m for the pros?(I have read it will, but is it for sure. I hope so)
Will the GS be on another hill? (I have read it will and it will not. I like dual Hybrid.)
Will the false start double your penalty?(I think it should and it works very well.)
Will there be prize money and pay to what place?

I hope to make it to Paris for my fourth year in a row, but I have to see how much it will cost for me to go.

Keith, Teams Radikal, CHIxILL & Oust.

[Marcus Seyffarth]

About starts; I agree with JBH, put the switch at the bottom of the startramp for quali and the problem is solved. In duals move it up to the top again and change it to a beam.

It's simply to hard to tell if someone lifted on purpose - like me - or if it was due to some sort of hard pull. Unless its banned and there is a way to monitor this why would you not lift the wheels? If you do it properly you can gain 0.2 seconds, which at Troca is the difference between being 5 or 15 in the straight race (or winning with an extra wide margin if you like). Its not cheating, its adaption.

About the DQ-start I say get rid of it and use 2x penalty for early start. I prefer having a rabbit, but I prefer much more to have a "clean" start. I don't think conespray is a problem in the pros. Its very annoying being called back after pulling in 0.07 seconds early, lets get rid of it.

What I think would be a much more elegant solution would be to use real reaction starts. This way you would get rid of both the lifters and the DQ's. If you let a computer do the randomization its very hard not to say impossible to leave early.

The problem with the 'reaction started' events I have been to is that the guy who says "5 seconds warning - go!" gets tired after 5 heats and starts saying it in a very predictable way so that you can leave early and get away with it.



And now to the votes.
Pros 1.80m - Great news a new challenge (though not comparable times to prevous years)
Ams 2.00m - Tough news for the ams, coneheads and the audience. When I raced am it was 2.50m
Tech Special - Woohoo!
GS - Go dual hybrid!
Start - Either "real reaction", or 2x penalty. Get rid of the start-DQ!

Thank you for listening. Over

[Ramón Königshausen]

Thanks Vinzz! I'm looking forward to the event!

PS: I like the schedule

rmn

[Vincent Berruchon]

Karl
we should change name everywhere but it's true that we often use names that were set for the first PSWC:

Tight Slalom = should be called STRAIGHT
PRO:1m80 and AMs: 2m (cry NOW if you really think that many amateurs can't do it)

Special Slalom= We want it to be quite tight at least on a part of the course for pros. Amateur race could be what you call hybrid, but it's an AM special.

And don't worry, the big steal cone is still there in front of the spot.