Cadwell Park, Lincolnshire, UK, February 3rd [PRIME]

European Races & Results (for Major, Main and Prime level races)

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Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:32 pm

Cadwell pro final results DUAL

1st Dom Kowalski
2nd Hans Gothberg
3rd=Mikka Hadestrand
3rd=Christophe Baumann

5th Greg Faddell
6th Paul Price
7th Martin Drayton
8th Tomas Potucek
9th Josef Stefka
10th Peter Klein
11th Chris Linford

The top 4 are based on the second completed rounds. The rest on single fastest qulifyer run.

Apologies to Tomas who is moved down one place from where he may have thought he was.

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:34 pm

Womens Dual Cadwell
1st Kathrin Sehl
2nd Ella Roggero

Womens GS Cadwell
1st Ella Roggero
2nd Kathrin Sehl

Antonio Saluena
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Girls!

Post by Antonio Saluena » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:37 pm

I have to say I'm sooo impressed by the girls, they where great!
I hope to see more women in the competitions in the future!

Peter Klang
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Post by Peter Klang » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:46 pm

GET THIS TOGETHER OR IT CAN BE PUT IN THE WORLD CUP RANKING.
WHAT IS THE CORRECT RESULTS?

PK

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Post by Dominik Kowalski » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:13 pm

HEjA!!!!!!!!! HAaha! Yeah! hey hans! you got my money ;) hehe

Thanks everybody for showing up on this windy bloody cold day. But after all it was a good day! Thanks for all competitors, sponsors and organizing bodies. I feel sorry that the ams could't even have a quali time, too bad. but sometimes it's tuff, when you try to do best for all, and the time is running out. Thanks Mr. Stride for this event, I know the ams will be back next year for their race. Thanks Sam for all of YOUR time. he was shaking badly while he put down our times without any errors, unlike....you know?

The start was the best method ever. A start beep and a second random beep...no false starts! and so easy and simple! i think that's the way to go!

Again! Thanks to everybody working for this and make it possibly. Beatifull GS and a nice tight course! Lovely!

so much to say....

Peter? You were not there?!
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Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:14 pm

Peter, what do you mean?

WHEN the correct results are put together they will be submitted.

Donald Campbell
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Post by Donald Campbell » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:27 pm

hey hey hey
all take it easy
peter is cool so is stridey

internet can be tricky....

Pelle Gustafsson
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pic´s

Post by Pelle Gustafsson » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:30 pm

where is all pic´s?

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:31 pm

Cadwell pro final results DUAL

1st Hans Gothburg
2nd Domonic Kowalski
3rd=Mikka Hadestrand
3rd=Christophe Baumann

5th Greg Faddell
6th Paul Price
7th Martin Drayton
8th Tomas Potucek
9th Josef Stefka
10th Peter Klein
11th Chris Linford

Womens Dual Cadwell
1st Kathrin Sehl
2nd Ella Roggero

Womens GS Cadwell
1st Ella Roggero
2nd Kathrin Sehl

Cadwell GS

1st Dominik Kowalksi 18.05 PRO
2nd Greg Fadell 18.26 PRO
3rd Mikael Hadestrand 19.04 PRO
4th Hans Gothberg 19.24 PRO
5th Josef Stefka 19.37 PRO
6th Christoph Baumann 19.40 PR0
7th Tomas Potucek 19.83 PRO
8th Paul Price 20.22 PRO
9th Michael Reiss 20.35 AMATEUR
10th Viking Hadestrand AMATEUR
11th Antonio Saluena 20.72 AMATEUR
12th Martin Drayton 20.77 PRO
13th Frank Wheeler 21.04 AMATEUR
14th Ian Stone 21.10 AMATEUR
15th David O'Connor 21.11 AMATEUR
16th Herve Berthou 21.32 AMATEUR
17th Mog Ford 21.52 AMATEUR
18th Viktor Hadestrand 21.69 AMATEUR
19th Gabe Steptoe 21.74 21.74 AMATEUR
20th Ella Roger 21.76 LADY
21st Sam Gordon 21.88 AMATEUR
22nd Jason Bishop 21.89 AMATEUR
23rdKathrin Sehl LADY
24th = Louis Slipa 21.91 AMATEUR
= Richard Norbury AMATEUR
26th Pelle Plast 22.01 AMATEUR
27th Peter Klein 22.18 PRO
28th Chris Linford 22.62 PRO
29th Rob Ashby 24.43 AMATEUR
Last edited by Michael Stride on Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:33 pm

Sorry for the confusion on the Dual result..... Due to errors DOM qualified first, but in the racing Hans won 'hans down!'?

I hope we can leve these as results for a day or so, and then submit them.

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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:43 pm

The start was the best method ever. A start beep and a second random beep...no false starts! and so easy and simple! i think that's the way to go!
Im glad you liked it.

Its a difficult one to try, but it does mean racers HAVE to wait for the signal.

I think discussion of that start system would be good to get more views.

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Post by Peter Klang » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:46 pm

Well, how results are counted is command knowledge. There are ISSA guide lines.
Qualifying results are not to be counted before H2H results. From what I heard the final was between the white Bomber and Homer.

According to ISSA guide lines

1. Hans “White Bomber” Göthberg
2. Christoffer “Homer” Bauman
3. Domenik “Kurva” Kowalski
4. Mikka “Tjockis” Hadestrand


Yours Fastest
PK

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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:30 pm

Peter, the final of the DUAL should be the two racers in the final.

I m sorry but I cant remeber who was in the final as I had people desperate to extend the race hill time and had to liase with other people, whilst the racing went on.

I NEED to know who was in the final two!

The final 4 are decided on their races, the rest on their qualifying, as per the ISSA rules.

ALL im doing is trying to get the correct result for the final TWO racers.

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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:34 pm

Rule 8.2
· Racers not entering the head-to-head rounds receive results as usual, based on the completed qualifying round.

And due to time constarints we went from qualifying to the last 4 for Head to Head as best we could. 1 race per heat. Sudden death.

NOT ideal, but the best we could do under the circumstances.

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Post by Dominik Kowalski » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:06 pm

so, if the "sudden death" counts, than I'm 3rd
if not, 1st.

fastest time counts, in quali, final 4 were racing...
that puts me into 3rd...

oh :(

fXCK THE RULES - GO SKATE!!!!

the only< loosers are the ams anyway for not being able to race, everything else is just peanuts

;)
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keep on rollin'...

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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:25 pm

Thanks DOM!

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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:27 pm

OK, I change Dom to THIRD but also will ask the ISSA to rule on it.

I see the logic, but it may be unfair to DOM to lose out due to the H2H being cut down.

Cadwell pro final results DUAL

1st Hans Gothburg
2nd Christophe Baumann
3rd=Mikka Hadestrand
3rd=Domonic Kowalski

5th Greg Faddell
6th Paul Price
7th Martin Drayton
8th Tomas Potucek
9th Josef Stefka
10th Peter Klein
11th Chris Linford


To the ISSA, as organiser of the Cadwekll race I hope you can decide on a racing results matter.

We were able to complete the qualifying for the pros, and their times are below:
Hans G 10.81 10.59
Dom K 11.14 10.56
Mikka H 10.97 10.86
Christo B 10.80 11.16
Greg F 11.35 11.15
Paul P 11.51 11.42
Tomas P 11.65 11.75
Martin D 12.10 11.62
Josef S 12.16 12.26
Peter K 12.40 12.78
Chris L 13.70 DQ

here is what I shall submit to the ISSA.

We initially added the times to give qualifying times but this was incorrect under ISSA rules, and was not picked up on the race day. This did not change the top four racers, except for switching DOM and HANS from 2nd to 1st on qualifying order.

We then took the TOP four and had one shot head to head, where Hans G won, Baumann 2nd.

We would like a ruling from the ISSA that our revised order should be
a) the single fastest time for those ranked 5-11 , ie their qualifying time remains the result.
b) that the ISSA rule that even though the rounds of 8 was omitted, and the round of 4 was a 'sudden death ' format (the four racers were aware of this) due to time and weather constraints, this was the best 'racing' format we could achive on the day. As such that the result should be recorded as above.

Michael Stride

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Post by Pat Chewning » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:29 pm

Michael Stride wrote: We would like a ruling from the ISSA that our revised order should be
a) the single fastest time for those ranked 5-11 , ie their qualifying time remains the result.
b) that the ISSA rule that even though the rounds of 8 was omitted, and the round of 4 was a 'sudden death ' format (the four racers were aware of this) due to time and weather constraints, this was the best 'racing' format we could achive on the day. As such that the result should be recorded as above.

Michael Stride
I've asked Peter Klang to review this. He is the head of the ISSA European Contest Coordinators.

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Post by Tomas Potucek » Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:45 pm

Michael Stride wrote:OK, I change Dom to THIRD but also will ask the ISSA to rule on it.

I see the logic, but it may be unfair to DOM to lose out due to the H2H being cut down.

Cadwell pro final results DUAL

1st Hans Gothburg
2nd Christophe Baumann
3rd=Mikka Hadestrand
3rd=Domonic Kowalski

5th Greg Faddell
6th Paul Price
7th Martin Drayton
8th Tomas Potucek
9th Josef Stefka
10th Peter Klein
11th Chris Linford


To the ISSA, as organiser of the Cadwekll race I hope you can decide on a racing results matter.

We were able to complete the qualifying for the pros, and their times are below:
Hans G 10.81 10.59
Dom K 11.14 10.56
Mikka H 10.97 10.86
Christo B 10.80 11.16
Greg F 11.35 11.15
Paul P 11.51 11.42
Tomas P 11.65 11.75
Martin D 12.10 11.62
Josef S 12.16 12.26
Peter K 12.40 12.78
Chris L 13.70 DQ

here is what I shall submit to the ISSA.

We initially added the times to give qualifying times but this was incorrect under ISSA rules, and was not picked up on the race day. This did not change the top four racers, except for switching DOM and HANS from 2nd to 1st on qualifying order.

We then took the TOP four and had one shot head to head, where Hans G won, Baumann 2nd.

We would like a ruling from the ISSA that our revised order should be
a) the single fastest time for those ranked 5-11 , ie their qualifying time remains the result.
b) that the ISSA rule that even though the rounds of 8 was omitted, and the round of 4 was a 'sudden death ' format (the four racers were aware of this) due to time and weather constraints, this was the best 'racing' format we could achive on the day. As such that the result should be recorded as above.

Michael Stride
Hi, thanks for the contest, we survived the COLD and had a great skate day, then a horrible long journey back to Prague. Please, can you let me know where did you buy the digital displays? Thanks a lot, Tomas

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:07 pm

glad you liked the timers. they are things that you dont realise how nice they are till you see and use them in racing. The digital displays are from Gunfighter.com and made by RUready.com

They supply the screen with an integrated timer, and I also bought two sets of light beams per lane. When used as single lane as in GS they used 1 9v battery in the screen and one 9v battery for eah IR emitter. the Recivers are powered from the screen by the wire. I used CAT 5 coputer cable and we used a 305m length easily, and had spare on the roll. The only problem we had was a used bttery for two runs. Easily replaced.

For the dual I moved 1 gate to the second lane, and constructed a box to start both timing screens at the same time and also the beeps with a false start indicator (the tapes on the ramps). RUready dont make those (yet)

You can elect to use your own gates and wire those in instead.

I have written about them on the timing forums here, down the bottom.

PS, Sorry that your time was initially recorded incorrectly. I tried to email you aout it earlier today.

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PHOTOS

Post by Dominik Kowalski » Wed Feb 06, 2008 4:38 pm

please feel free to check out my pics!!!

http://flickr.com/photos/59756352@N00/s ... 859842822/
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Post by Hans Koraeus » Wed Feb 06, 2008 6:45 pm

So what I understand in the top 4 H2H finals Göthberg and Baumann won one race each and came to the final. And then there was only time to do the final between Göthberg and Baumann.

I see above that place 3 and 4 has not been separated. If they never did race each other H2H for 3:rd place it should be the Qualifying time that counts. Which means Kowalski 3:rd and Hadestrand 4:th.

So if only qual counts and we "skip" the funny H2H format we get

1 Göthberg
2 Kowalski
3 Hadestrand
4 Baumann

If we count the funny H2H format we have

1 Göthberg
2 Baumann
3 Kowalski
4 Hadestrand

Bauman was the only one gaining from the H2H by moving from 4:th to 2:nd place.

Jason Bishop
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Post by Jason Bishop » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:26 pm

I had a great time in spite of arctic conditions. It was great to meet everyone!
I have photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/southcoastimages/

Lets race soon!

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Post by Marcus Seyffarth » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:09 am

Hans Koraeus wrote:So what I understand in the top 4 H2H finals Göthberg and Baumann won one race each and came to the final. And then there was only time to do the final between Göthberg and Baumann.

I see above that place 3 and 4 has not been separated. If they never did race each other H2H for 3:rd place it should be the Qualifying time that counts. Which means Kowalski 3:rd and Hadestrand 4:th.

So if only qual counts and we "skip" the funny H2H format we get

1 Göthberg
2 Kowalski
3 Hadestrand
4 Baumann

If we count the funny H2H format we have

1 Göthberg
2 Baumann
3 Kowalski
4 Hadestrand

Bauman was the only one gaining from the H2H by moving from 4:th to 2:nd place.
No Dominik was faster than Götis in the qualification so Dom would be first if you skip H2H.

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:15 am

I have sent all details to Peter Klang. Pat Chewing says that Peter says he is 'done'. That was yesterday but I have heard nothing.

I suggest to all those with opinions they lobby Peter as soon as possible.

I can only apologise for the confusion on this one result, but it does show what extreme conditions and pressure we were under at that time. But allowing for all the times recorded and openess about the discrepency can be the ONLY way to handle these matters I think.

On another note....
If you have pictures in a gallery or snaps your proud of please let me know, I want to get a portfolio of pictures together for the future.

One reason for running Cadwell was to show other venues what a race looks like, how much space it needs, what ramps look like, even what competitors look like. Even Pelle! The pictures provided so far help beyond words, or at least the standard ratio of 1 picture = 1000 words.

My body still aches all over, so I have no idea how actual racers feel. Doms road trip pictures especially made me smile.



Videos
http://www.ukslalomskateboarding.com/cadwell.mp4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiFG2yD_ ... ingdom.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/enter ... 225792.stm

Images:

http://flickr.com/photos/59756352@N00/s ... 859842822/

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=9 ... =616235200

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3 ... =616235200

http://www.flickr.com/photos/southcoast ... 242756506/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/southcoastimages/

http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/murray38/ ... rkFreeride


Articles:
http://www.lushlongboards.com/index.php?cPath=177_292

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:14 am

I have begun to recieve some lovely mesages of 'thanks', and this from someone who organises 1 man, private World Record attempts.

Michael,

I was very dissapointed after what seemed to be attempts by you to 'make peace' at Cadwell, wearing a "Showdown" T-shirt and, as someone I have known for 30 years finally offering me condolences a month after my Mother died, that I now find that you are attempting to discredit me with yet another sponsor and making snide remarks about using the South Bank ticket that was put aside for me.


Please do not even bother yourself with replying to this as any e-mails I receive from you from now on will be deleted unread.

Well frankly I am beyond getting angry with you and now feel nothing but pity. I have much more important things to occupy my time with a loving wife and beautiful daughter who have already had their lives disrupted enough through the actions of a sad, lonely, bitter individual such as yourself.

Did you notice not much actual feedback on your race, just pictures and comments unrelated to your "organisational skills"? This is because no-one wants to get into an internet flame war with you as you have done with countless people on several sites now including someone who has made excuses to people for your rudeness on countless occasions over 30 years.

In your desire to be the center of attention you didn't delegate til it was too late after you actually realised that you couldn't do it all yourself. I forgot how much you like 'center stage' until someone reminded me of the 'board-breaking' dramas you used to pull at South Bank!
Well here is the general concensus that has been discussed among several attendees, and no, no-one will admit it to your face:

If the dual had been held first, it would have been completed and everyone could have had at least one run of GS.
Failing that the Dual could just have been one or two runs for EVERYONE, thus getting a result and not depriving the Ams a skate, something you were probably aware was going to happen all along - shameful, as apparently some people even told you this beforehand.
The transition on your "beginners ramps" was more abrupt than a normal "S" ramp, which is why none of the beginners rode it! Even Donald thought the down ramp was crap so didn't back you publicly when you posted pictures of it. Deep down you knew it too otherwise why post defensively when you put the pics up? The only online praise was from two people who have never ridden a start ramp!

A few people were dissapointed that we didn't actually have the ramps in the right places to get the most out of the hill, nor were the courses long enough. No-one runs TS comps with 10-12 sec courses.

How can you run a race and at the end of it not even know the order of the last 4? You looked like a laughing stock on ISSA! The Euros can't believe it.
No coneheads at a Main status race, have you ever been to one where that happened?

The message on my ansaphone (which I still have in case you want to deny what you said) -trying to pass blame for the adding of the times by saying Sam and Rob didn't do any training, blaming Dan for faulty spreadsheets and a dodgy program, saying that Mick didn't spot anything and Paul shrugged his shoulders - How cowardly! It was your race, you should have the good grace to take responsibility for errors as well as successes (though admittedly they were harder to spot).
Considering the above you were very lucky no-one behaved as badly and complained as much as you usually do at races, they certainly had plenty of justification.

Over the last few months I have seen all the snide (as your name is known in some circles) remarks you have made at mine (and Paul's expense) on several occasions on several sites. These have gone unanswered by myself, and they are to stop. If you don't have the guts to say them to my face, simply do not say them. Look me in the eye when we next meet and be a man and say them to me instead of hiding behind the internet and face whatever the consequences may be....if you have the guts.


I am tired of your cowardly ways, you are disingenuous in the extreme, smiling at me and being pleasant at the race, then making comments behind my back as soon as you are back behind a keyboard.
Pissed off that people bought stuff off Dan? Well, hopefully it'll make you think about how you have treated your customers for years!


This e-mail is titled "Finally..." because I have no intention of corresponding with you in the future.

Martin.

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Results

Post by Michael Stride » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:42 am

I sent the results top Pat Chewing who has given this adjudication for the Dual Pro
Facts:
1) The qualifying round was completed.
2) The bracketing for the H2H round was in error (using sum of qual times instead of best time).
3) The race format was improvised to be a single-run H2H rather than two runs.
4) The H2H "improvised" rounds were not completed. The consolation round was never run.

Unclear:
A) Who actually raced who, and what were the results among the final 4 racers?

Opinion:
1) The race was effectively abandoned after the completed qualification round.
2) Therefore, from rule 8.2, the only completed round is the 2 runs of qualifying, so only the single-best qualifying run is used to sort the racers from 1st to last.


I think this makes the best result because it follows the ISSA rules and the H2H had so many problems that make it difficult to reconstruct valid results.

If you agree, please send the results to Corky for inclusion in the ranking.
Consequently the final results rest on those qualifying times making the results as follows:
Dom K 10.56
Hans G 10.59
Christo B 10.80
Mikka H 10.86
Greg F 11.15
Paul P 11.42
Martin D 11.62
Tomas P 11.65
Josef S 12.16
Peter K 12.40
Chris L 13.70


I would like to take this oportunity to apologise to racers, firstly the Pros for the mix up and the need to seek clarification. Secondly to the Ams who were unable to race. As you know we were late starting due to track drying. And using the hill for 3 runs was a better gamble than possibly having just two AND no time to do a Dual. Circumstances beyond our control.

I propose to send correct trophies to the correct 3 winners. All money won by competitors can be retained, I will top up those who recieved less than they should have.

FAr form being 'a laughing stock' as one UK racer has suggested I feel that by being open about mistakes and errors and using the ISSA for adjudicating it can only be fairer. I shall also add that this individual GAINED by the results being studied carefully moving up to 7th.

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Post by Donald Campbell » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:49 pm

absolutely bad sportsmanship shown by Drayton.
his views and opinions are not shared by the German fraction.
i wonder who the laughing stock is here?
somebody who creates "world records" timed-very unaccurately-with a stopwatch, that are beaten by almost 3 seconds a week later by amateur skaters from America (drayton is a pro racer) or the organizer of a race in the UK who was even able to bring a bigger sponsor which is not skateboard related to his event.

I must add that I have also been quoted in Draytons e-mail to Stride and I want to let people know that Drayton is a LIAR!

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Post by Dominik Kowalski » Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:56 pm

yeah....it's a shame.

Micheal...thanks for working it all out. just go on with your work....I know the core will follow. Looking forward racing in the uk again!
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Post by Peter Klang » Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:34 pm

Get real boys,
H2H gives it like it is, sorry Dom your the biggest looser in this but you have won sooo much allready so I feel like you can live with it. You know I love you and think your the bomb.


PK

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Post by Dominik Kowalski » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:25 pm

oh, I don't worry about that....I never complained either, and it also won't hurt any of my feelings...dude.
<a href="http://www.pavel-skates.com" target="_blank" class="postlink">SEX, DRUGS & BACKSIDE ROCK'N'ROLL...</a>
keep on rollin'...

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you

Post by Pelle Gustafsson » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:59 pm

you´re the MAN!!! thats who a real skater take it! i just ride like shit that day but i am happy any way, met lots of funny nice people thats what´s matter!!!

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Post by Robert Gaisek » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:05 pm

I´m sorry to have to say it, but this slapping back and forward DO NOT belong in this forum.
I dont know what this is all about but I´m sick and tired of hearing it.
There are several other forums where you have a post called " shittalk" and maybe there should be one in this?
So...maybe I´m putting my neck out but I have only one thing to say and that is.......
Image
Image

Robert Gaisek
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Post by Robert Gaisek » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:08 pm

Sorry.....I didn´t mean to shut you up completely, so please write something.
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Pelle Gustafsson
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Post by Pelle Gustafsson » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:10 pm

dont worry be happy....

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Post by Robert Gaisek » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:12 pm

I am....I´m going to a slalom-session right now.
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Image

Pelle Gustafsson
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Post by Pelle Gustafsson » Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:13 pm

fucking nice! me to later in nacka...

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Post by Martin Drayton » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:02 pm

robert gaisek wrote:I am....I´m going to a slalom-session right now.
Image
Is that the place for the G'burg comp? Awesome whether it is or not....you lucky boy!

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Post by Robert Gaisek » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:03 pm

It is!!
And the black thing on wheels in the corner is Mikka´s stereo.
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Jani Soderhall
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The race organizer makes the decisions (during the race!!)

Post by Jani Soderhall » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:57 pm

My idea is that the ISSA rules should act as a guideline before and during the event. It's primary purpose is to define a certain number of items in advance of the race, so that the organizer doesn't have to invent his own rules, and so that the racers attending the race knows what to expect.

During the race, it can be used by the organizer in a few cases to look up a rule that is not often applied and as such help the organizer take the appropriate decision. However, I think it should be made clear that in every instance it is the sole responsibility of the race organizer to take every necessary decision during the race.

What we're seeing here, is a very unfortunate situation where things are supposed to be settled after the facts. That is completely inappropriate. Any decision, even a bad one, taken during the race, would have been way better than what is happening now.

Although I was not at the race, and thus doesn't have much insight into what happened, it seems clear to me that the finals were decided and held. OK, they were not held in a standard format, but that is an acceptable decision from the organizer to do so, apparently taking the decision that it's better to have a small final, rather than no final at all. Thus the results should be decided by those few final runs, rather than the qualification. I think we've had several similar cases before where finals had to be cut short and rules were slightly twisted, but we got to the end and a winner was announced. The mystery that remains from this race is what was said and done on site? When the two finalists took their runs, didn't one come up smiling celebrating his victory? Didn't other skaters congratulate him on his victory?

/Jani

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Re: The race organizer makes the decisions (during the race!

Post by Pat Chewning » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:29 pm

Jani Soderhall wrote:What we're seeing here, is a very unfortunate situation where things are supposed to be settled after the facts. That is completely inappropriate. Any decision, even a bad one, taken during the race, would have been way better than what is happening now
The contest organizer asked for the opinion from the ISSA, so it was given. If it was not asked, it would not be given.

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Post by Michael Stride » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:10 am

Jani, I agree that in an ideal world these things would not happen. As the race organiser I was aware of problems with the recording of the times of the GS pro as they occured. I was witness to the error occuring on the spreadsheet. So were the other people who were entering those times, and I in no way hold them responsible for the computer error. Just that the error occured and we all tried to do our best under pressured circumstances.

The times were entered into a spreadsheet and one time would not enter into its box. Theprogram was meant to sort out the qualifying order. Because of this one number not being able to be entered the correct orderwasworked out manually. However, this was taken to be the SUM of the two runs, which is not the correct way. I did not pick up on this properly until after the very rushed rounds final rounds had been completed, which used an incorrect bracketting system, as a result of the incorrect adding up of those times.

The racers were thrown into final rounds, and whilst I have no doubt they were happy at the time with the order they were actually unaware of the mistake that had already been made so were unaware they were in effect racing the worng people.

As a consequence I asked the ISSA for a ruling, stating only the facts, not my opinion as to what the result should be. I said I would stand by the ISSA decision.

Yes it is regrettable to hand out a trophy, prize and money to the incorrect parties, and I have taken the decision to correct trophies, prizes and money at my cost, whilst not taking anything away from the original winners.

It would have been easier to just go with those first 'results'and i would imagine nothing more would have been said, or noticed.

It is my decision to be OPEN about the racing results that whilst leading to an awkward situation actually leads to the CORRECT race order to be determined.

I think all race organisers will know that it can be easier to hide mistakes rather than try to correct them. I take the view that I would want to be open about problems.

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Post by Michael Stride » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:43 am

Jani wrote:Any decision, even a bad one, taken during the race, would have been way better than what is happening now.
I have to disagree. Any bad decision would have led to racers racing the wrong people, unaware they were doing so. And that happened at Cadwell.

To decide to keep the results as wrong once a mistake was discovered is in effect a cover up.

As soon as the mistake was discovered I took advice, submitted it first to Peter Klang, and once no adjudication was forthcoming went to Pat Chewing who sorted it out in a timely manner.

Reflecting on that one aspect of the race, over the past week I am certain that descisions were affected by the cold weather and wind, and the lack of time we had towards the end of the day.

However , we were able to run 3 full runs of GS for everyone after the track dried. And both womens events.

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Post by Peter Klang » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:32 pm

MR STRIDE, DON´T PLAY STUPID I MAILED YOU AND WROTE ON THIS FORUM, READ. I GAVE YOU THE VERDICT. I wrote the and stated the results as fair it could be.

I totally agree with Jani.

YFPK

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Post by Michael Stride » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:14 pm

Peter. I sent a PM to you on trhe 6th February at 10.16 asking for an adjudication. And a reminder asking for any news on the 7th at 13.26.

The applicatioon was repeated word for word on the this thread for everyone to see.

On recieving no reply at all (check the system) I approcahed Pat Chewing who replied that you had said you 'were done' but that you had not elaborated on that staement.

Pat said he would try to contact you, but also come up with his adjudication, emailing me asking for the facts. This I gave him and he then provided an adjudication.

I suggest you ask Pat Chewing about it.

The final decision is not mine but the ISSA.

I feel I followed procedures as openely and as proffessionally as I could.

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Post by Peter Klang » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:26 pm

Are you stupid or just playing.
I sent you the results and posted them on this forum.

If you want to see who won, check out whom holding the 1 place trophy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E08u4ApT4Ig

The end again

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Post by Michael Stride » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:11 pm

Peter, I expect more from an official of the ISSA.

I asked for an adjudication, formally, to you.

On getting no response to that, or my second request I asked Pat Chewing to look into the matter. I also note that Jack Smith has also experienced getting responses from you.

The photographs show who 'won' on a flawed set of final rounds. That is of course regrettable. That is NOT in dispute. Those racers were racing the wrong opponents.

What was in dispute was how best to correct the mistake. The best way was to submit for a ruling by the ISSA. I did this. I have NO involvement in the ruling.

I suggest you explain to Pat Chewing your feelings. Had you actually responded to the formal request I would have course accepted your decision.

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Post by Peter Klang » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:22 pm

Don´t even go there, Try to play that card somewhere else.

The question still remains.

ARE YOU STUPID?

I SENT YOU THE RESULTS AND WROTE THEM ON THIS FORUM.

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Post by Michael Stride » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:28 pm

Peter. My PM folder shows NO messages from you at ANY time.

Please detail when you posted the results, and how that corresponds with my formal request for ISSA results, submitted with times, and race scenario.

Your inital response of 'results' was done without knowing the facts. those facts were submitted forst to you, then Pat Chewing.

Calling me stupid for formally seeking a clarification is not helpful in the least, nor does it encourage race organisers or competitorsfrom approcahing you for help. Which is all I ever asked for.

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Post by Peter Klang » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:34 pm

I sent you this mail to sales@octainsport.com at 10.09 the 7 of feb 2008

Don´t worry, be happy. The race happend.
result of top 4 as I posted. after that qualy times.

Hope you do it next year and that I don´t drawn in work and can´t go.
Sorry i missed it, but remember, the race happend. Smile:-)

Cheers
Peter

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