[2008] Euro Championships, Hannover, June [MAIN] Cancelled!

European Races & Results (for Major, Main and Prime level races)

Moderators: Jani Soderhall, Robert Thiele

Ramón Königshausen
Airflow - Skateboards
Airflow - Skateboards
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Contact:

:-(

Post by Ramón Königshausen » Thu May 15, 2008 3:02 pm

The situation is starting to make me really sad as it seems that it is just happening what we feared and could not avoid in any way.

What has just happened is not right at all - The consequences are becoming more and more visible as more and more people tell us that they have "already" booked their flights.

That's why I had tried to convince Detlef to hold at least a Prime Event or something, but that would not have given you much back. So at the moment, still, we should wait for his statement and ideas of how to continue with this dilemma.

What we (the ISSA) or Detlef could do, is sort of giving rebates to those affected by the cancellation of the Event in Hannover.

If and how this would happen, I don't know. This is just an idea we had.
Since we have never been in such a situation this issue will have to be discussed by the ISSA BOD.

The question remains whether the event organizer, or the ISSA, or the rider himself should bear the consequences of such a case.



We'll keep you updated!

rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Gints Gailitis
1964-2011 (RIP)
1964-2011 (RIP)
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Latvia
Contact:

Post by Gints Gailitis » Thu May 15, 2008 6:51 pm

Please ISSA European marshals (Dominik,Ramon,Peter) inform us all about the reason!

Slalom skateboard need European Championship every year for development of our sport!

My opinion is that the race status is not so important as European championship title!

About Amsterdam as candidate: how many people are in the crew?

The monster ramp for Euros is not a good idea because in European championship there must be lady and junior group and for them it would be too big risk!


www.skateboardinfo.lv

Donald Campbell
Pavel
Pavel
Posts: 2036
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:49 pm
Location: germany
Contact:

Post by Donald Campbell » Thu May 15, 2008 8:54 pm

hello gints:
there isn't a problem in setting up a smaller start ramp for the groups you metioned as we are taking care of the ramps for this event.
flavio is working with the city of amsterdam for this event,also he will have my personal help before and during the race plus! the gog crew will be there to take care of things at the race site too.

Flavio Badenes
Flavio
Flavio
Posts: 870
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:26 pm
Location: Amsterdam/Holland
Contact:

Post by Flavio Badenes » Thu May 15, 2008 10:24 pm

Gints Gailitis wrote:About Amsterdam as candidate: how many people are in the crew?
Gints regarding the Amsterdam crew I can inform you the following:

Flavio Badenes: Computer Sciency degree from the Catholic University of Rio de Janeiro, MBA in Business from the same university. 10 years experience as International Integration Project Manager for LogicaCMG one of the largest IT companies in the world, I have worked in more than 30 countries around the world.
At this moment I am a national implementation manager for the Dutch Customs. I integrate work processes with information systems.
I have been skateboarding since the age of 12, I am 50 years old. I was the first brazilian professional skater. I won the first ever skateboarding contest in Brazil. I travelled countless times to the USA to skate the parks over there in the late 70´s and early 80´s.
I have organized a few contests being the Nokia Totally Board in 2003 one of them in the Amsterdam Arena ( a football station with 75,000 seats) . I did the skateboarding half pipe contest which was part of the WCS8boarding (read Don and Danielle Bostick) circuit. It was a total success. I also organized the Slalom contest in Amsterdam last year. It was small but well organized, Just ask anybody that was present.

My partner and old friend John Deurholt. Besides having owned one of the first skateparks in Amsterdam, world famous The Third Floor, has also organized the Dutch National street contest for 8 (eight) years in a row. He runs Iskateboard.eu these days and he is a influent caracter in the Dutch skateboarding scene.

Besides that I have the backup of the communication service of the city of Amsterdam, more specifically the municipality of Slotervaart.

And YES I have the full support from the Gang of Germany. THANK YOU GUYS!!!!! you know who you are.

Gints I hope this answers your question.
regards
Last edited by Flavio Badenes on Thu May 15, 2008 10:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Gints Gailitis
1964-2011 (RIP)
1964-2011 (RIP)
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Latvia
Contact:

Post by Gints Gailitis » Thu May 15, 2008 10:28 pm

Hello Don!

First of all thanks for the great competition in Duseldorf! It was very interesting to see how you are making boards.
Of course big ramp it not a problem for the top raiders who are struggling for the European title. New ideas for slalom always will be great. I hope Amsterdam city help with medical service and safeguard no matter World cup or European championship. New country whose is ready to organize big event – it is great.

The second I don’t received answer for our Marshals. Is there real reason for your rumour- The European championship does not take place in Hanover ???
It will be nice if Detlef write quick info about Hanover. What the problem?

Thanks Flavio for quick answer !


www.skateboardinfo.lv

Ramón Königshausen
Airflow - Skateboards
Airflow - Skateboards
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Contact:

Post by Ramón Königshausen » Thu May 15, 2008 10:33 pm

Sorry Gints for letting you wait.

We informed Detlef and told him to make a statement and explain what the matter with his event is.

Since it is his event he knows best how to explain the situation. That's why we will keep back with our own explanation and wait until he comes up with his.

rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Steve Hinzen
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:38 pm
Location: Cologne, Germany
Contact:

About The Ramp

Post by Steve Hinzen » Thu May 15, 2008 11:00 pm

Something about the big ramp:

I sign responsible for constructing the so called "Monster Ramp".

Last year a smaller version of The Ramp (2 meters high) has been tested in an outlaw GoG-race. In this race participants of all skill-levels took part. We were not shure if everbody would have the guts to try the ramp.
But every participant made the big drop without slamming and enjoyed the speed.

After this positive experience I promised to built a higher version for this year. The new ramp is 3 meters high and will be tested in the "Dicke-Rampe-Race" in a few weeks. Even if this is just another outlaw race where everybody skates at his own risk I am still responsible for the safety of everybody using the ramp, especially in the case that I am an architect.

I feel confident that everybody can make the drop if he wants to. I have seen many regular start ramps that were less safe and more difficult to ride.

But as the designer of the ramp I am responsible for the safety if it will be used in an official race. Nobody else but me will decide if and under which conditions this ramp will be in used in Amsterdam. So far this is just an idea about which the safety- and insurance-issue still has to be cleared. I think Flavio is the right partner to seriously deal with this.

Speed is your friend. Steve.
Last edited by Steve Hinzen on Fri May 16, 2008 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

Detlef Rehbock
Dete
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:29 pm
Location: Hannover, Germany
Contact:

Situation in Hannover

Post by Detlef Rehbock » Fri May 16, 2008 7:44 am

it´s a bad situation. I worked since half a year, to find sponsors for our Race in Hannover. At the end there are only regrets. Nobody is interested to sponsor slalom skateboarding in Hannover. all the big distributeurs of skate stuff, ( who ride big cars) said no, we are mnot interested in slalom skateboarding. sure we tried to get money from the local industry.

So the situation is, there is no money at all. I posted in my application form, we will spend 2.000.- minimum value of prices. Organisation of the contest cost around 3.000.- Euro minimum. If you can count, there is a shortage of 5.000.- euros.

at this point a word to flavio. in paris we agreed, that you will inform me on thursday morning. till now i have not heard anything from you.

it´s a bad situation for all of us. What do you thing how much i pay for planning the event in the last six month? i think i paid around 1.500.- euro and spend around ten days of work inbetween the last six month.

all at all, it´s your decision. please choose an option.

1. I will cancel the race in Hannover. All skaters who have booked there flights and lost money will get a free hotel and free entry fee at our next race i will organise.

2. I will hold the european championships as we have planned, spend 2.000.- euros as price money and pay all the uncovered costs from my own pocket

3. I will hold a prime race on that weekend without price money to minimize my private damage as small as i can. This option only makes sense if enough skaters need this race, want this race and can´t life without that race.

In Paris, Flavio told me, he will check the financial situation in amsterdam. What he write for amsterdam sounds great. But please remember. We had great moments last year in Hannover too. Think how exciting the price ceremony was. Think how exciting the finals was. Think how many shirts and books skaters have to sign.

At the end i got the feeling, all this counts not too much. The most important thing is money. That´s the reason why i don´t want to organise another race after our last one. That´s the reason why i think about cancelling this years race. Because there is no money.
When i asked for another main status for this year, i was sure with the documentation from last years race and with full activity, i will get the money that we need for a great race.
But i didn´t get it. Say what you want, i tried everything. And now, please choose what you want. If you decide to cancel the race, than it´s fine for me.
If you decide to have the euros with a price money overall 2.000.- euro i will start working hard for this event and post all informations here in the forum

Carsten Pingel
Carsten Pingel
Carsten Pingel
Posts: 489
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:54 pm

Post by Carsten Pingel » Fri May 16, 2008 8:01 am

Thanks dete for reply!
That was an important information we needed! But not 4 weeks before the race! :-(

Donald Campbell
Pavel
Pavel
Posts: 2036
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:49 pm
Location: germany
Contact:

Post by Donald Campbell » Fri May 16, 2008 8:31 am

i agree with carsten
sad to say there hasn't been too much activity from detlev prior to the race.
the "maybe i can do the race" doesn't really help now.
i got word from dom and ramon that "its either the euros and a main status or it's a bust "came from your lips in paris.
as there are several important aspects missing from this event right now,i guess its the best to walk away to another venue.
detlevs last post on this subject doesn't really help to clarify the situation.
as a matter of fact there hasn't been an update on the hannover homepage for a very long time and this also doesn't encourage anybody here to support this race anymore.
i would say that hannover was ok but its over now and saarstedt is definitely not the place to be anymore
a big expo festivity is a different thing.
we all think like this dete and we all like you,don't get this wrong.
but there is a time when decisions have to be made and it doesn't help to jump around saying no yesterday and yes today.
amsterdam is a nice venue,i would go so far to say it's better than hannover just from its attractivity.
maybe you take a break from doing slalom contests and come back later refreshed and with new ideas.

regarding the conversation which is held right now i think that this topic should have been made public way in advance and not right now,that's also an aspect of being professional in organizing.

Marcus Seyffarth
Posts: 607
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

plans for midsummer

Post by Marcus Seyffarth » Fri May 16, 2008 9:56 am

Sad for you those who have got tickets to the race, but for the swedes who are busy doing other stuff this weekend a move of the european championships is a good thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbh3uAZ4WUM

Luca Giammarco
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Italy

Post by Luca Giammarco » Fri May 16, 2008 10:51 am

If you cancel the race I lose my ticket and I lose the european championship..

Detlef Rehbock
Dete
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:29 pm
Location: Hannover, Germany
Contact:

may be?

Post by Detlef Rehbock » Fri May 16, 2008 12:21 pm

i think there is not a maybe.
i explain you, that there is no money.
it takes some time and takes some words to make a decision.
i have make my decision.
i will pay for the euros as i wrote.

now it´s up to you. make your decision. ramon and dom and peter.
you gave me the status. what do you think? what is best for slalom?
you know the event from last year.

and for the money. in my application form i wrote 2.000.-
that means
tight, spezial, giant
1.Place 300
2.Place 150
3.Place 100
4.Place 70
5.Place 50
6.Place 30

In my private situation it´s not easy to decide, paying 3.000.- euro from my own.
I go to Paris to find out what is the best. I talked with some of you.
Please help me with your decision. Choose 1,2 or 3 (read above)

Or say amsterdam will be the better choice for the future.
i feel very bad about these situation.

Janis kuzmins
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Latvia

Post by Janis kuzmins » Fri May 16, 2008 12:42 pm

I understud that Detlef is ready to organise the competition, and thats will be right.
I was surprised that hannover is cancelled, because on saturday when i talked with Detlef in Paris everithing was ok, he told that he find a hotel for participants, and that start ramp will be not in the middle of giant course.
And this time Prize money and status is not the main things, but the european champion title.
And a lot of people made plans for this week and spend a money (i will loose money)(except two best europeans in euro 2007 overall), which will not go to different location.

Ramon,
Dominik,
Peter.

Hannover was your choice (and Donald yours too), now need to do everything for this competition will be there.

Jani Soderhall
ISSA President 2011-2020
ISSA President 2011-2020
Posts: 4127
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Sweden, lives in France
Contact:

Post by Jani Soderhall » Fri May 16, 2008 1:24 pm

Luca Giammarco wrote:If you cancel the race I lose my ticket and I lose the european championship.
And we lost participation in Paris, because people can't go to every event, thus being forced to make a selection. For Amsterdam, Riga and Grenoble this may actually be good news, but for Paris participation it's too late. (But the event was a success despite the low participation in the Pro event).

The cancellation of an event should be severly punished, but unfortunately we don't have any means to do so. In a bright future we could ask a race organizer to deposit a sum (to ISSA) prior to the event, at least for Main events, to assure that the race will be held (and that prize money can be distributed - hasn't that been an issue too?), and if not this sum could be used for compensating riders. But how big would that have to be? Right now we have only a few riders that have lost their money, but in the case of an event cancelled 2 days before (God forbid!) the amount could be enormous. But somehow we need to discuss this for next year. We should also have a last limit for confirmation of the event. Maybe we should have pre-announcements and then decide upon a confirmation to be given x months prior to the event, where the race organizer reassures the community that the event plan is on schedule and that Yes, riders can start booking tickets.

This is a very unfortunate situation and I feel sorry for both skaters and Detlef. Besides lost tickets (money), lost participation, lost titles, we may also be loosing a racer organizer here. Unfortunately I have no good ideas on how to solve the problem. It is a tricky situation and there will be loosers no matter what happens next.

/Jani

(please note that I wrote this while Detlef was writing his proposal to run it against all odds)

Detlef Rehbock
Dete
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:29 pm
Location: Hannover, Germany
Contact:

i am ready

Post by Detlef Rehbock » Fri May 16, 2008 2:16 pm

i´m ready to be the loser.

Ramón Königshausen
Airflow - Skateboards
Airflow - Skateboards
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Situation in Hannover

Post by Ramón Königshausen » Fri May 16, 2008 3:16 pm

Detlef Rehbock wrote: 3. I will hold a prime race on that weekend without price money to minimize my private damage as small as i can. This option only makes sense if enough skaters need this race, want this race and can´t life without that race.
To make this decision, it would be helpful if we had a racers list.

rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Dominik Kowalski
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:26 pm
Location: Cologne, Germany

Hannover 2008 cancelled: This is the final decision.

Post by Dominik Kowalski » Fri May 16, 2008 4:44 pm

Hannover will be canceled! Amsterdam will get Main status and the title of European Championchips!

Ramon, Peter and I discussed a lot of arguments, against and for holding the Euros in Hannover, and mostly thinking about all of you racers deserving the best.

...but therefore I want to let you know, as we (Ramon, me, Flavio and Dete) spoke together, Dete clearly said, he wanted it off his shoulders, so we dealed with that situation.
The fact that Dete told Janis and others that it will happen, is not what have heard from him, as we spoke, even what Dete says now, that he could do it, is not what he heard from him as we spoke. We asked him to do it anyway, but to us it seemed clear he didn't want it. And if he still wants it, than no euros will be held, just a prime, and who would come for that?

Dete should have come to us, way more ahead of time, and not the other way around 4 weeks before the contest, (this is the European Champiochips for God's sake!), than we could have solved it a bit different (maybe), but within this time, we needed to akt fast.

There are so many possibilities, but one doesn't apeal better than the other one.
Whatever we would have decided, there would be no chance making everyone happy with it. This is a bad situation no matter what.
So we looked after what would be the best for the sport.
European Championchips should be a big and successful event.

This is bigger and more important than for example 2 of the best European riders and their plane tickets (I'm so sorry to say that...I really really feel bad about this). Maybe if Dete is willing to pay for the event out of his own pocket, maybe he could do it for those who have already paid for their tickets (just a suggestion). Would the Worlds get moved if Janis, Luca, Ramon....says he can't come on that weekend....? no. So, I'm sorry we can't put this into consideration. We have to see what is best for the outcome in total.

Yes! We wanted to have Hannover holding the euros, but not under these kind of circumstances! This won't be professional, if we do it this way. I'm sorry again to say that. After all, if we would have decided to let Hannover happen again now, why should Flavio be the one who has to take a step aside, while he was the one saving us in our dilemma? Again, we needed to fix this problem as quick as possible, that's our job.

We know it is not the optimum. We know it is close to Göteborg and Policka, and some may think Grenoble should get euros again, since it already has MAIN status.
But as we don't really promote for flatland races to be held for euros, and think we should keep rotating things, so we decided against it. Pleace respect our decision in this kind of situation, which is not easy to handle. I believe if we stop wondering what could be better for now, we should take it what it is now, and we still can make the best of it. We are still open to solve the problem with those who are loosing money over this. We would appreciate any good ideas. Thank you for you understanding.

Dominik Kowalski
European Status Marshall
Speaking for the three of us.
<a href="http://www.pavel-skates.com" target="_blank" class="postlink">SEX, DRUGS & BACKSIDE ROCK'N'ROLL...</a>
keep on rollin'...

Donald Campbell
Pavel
Pavel
Posts: 2036
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:49 pm
Location: germany
Contact:

Post by Donald Campbell » Fri May 16, 2008 6:56 pm

some words...

as you all know i also was so much into supporting the hannover race,but under these circumstances and the given recent history,i openly admit that i am so disappointed.
one of my arguments for pulling the plug is also very personal and its regarding germany as a whole:if we push hannover now,we allow any future organizer to behave the same way.everybody will come back to the strange circumstances which surrounded this special race in hannover,trying to apologize for his own mistakes then.

also i want everybody outside of germany to know that the german group of skaters which is or will be involved in future races is also not willing to support this kind of attitude towards organizing races.
if we want a certain status for a race we alll want to see clear and clean decisions regarding such an event in the future,´.
as much as it may hurt right now it is better to show some strictness now instead of just doing things the other way around.

also:wouldn't it be so unfair right now to burn flavio who is stepping it up?

finally i want to say that i applaud the trio in charge for being so brave and enforcing their decisions.
they are good for the sport and its credibility

Luca Giammarco
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Italy

Post by Luca Giammarco » Fri May 16, 2008 7:12 pm

hey dominique and ramon this is a nice way to make outside your adversaries! I'm joke but I'm really angry for my money (350 euro cazzo!)

Ramón Königshausen
Airflow - Skateboards
Airflow - Skateboards
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Contact:

Post by Ramón Königshausen » Fri May 16, 2008 7:26 pm

Luca,

I will spend 10% of my prize money from Amsterdam on those who could not get back their money from Hannover.*

What exactly concering our explanation are you critisizing?

rmn

*if you can confirm this with a document.
Last edited by Ramón Königshausen on Sat May 17, 2008 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Jani Soderhall
ISSA President 2011-2020
ISSA President 2011-2020
Posts: 4127
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Sweden, lives in France
Contact:

Post by Jani Soderhall » Fri May 16, 2008 7:47 pm

Donald Campbell wrote:as you all know i also was so much into supporting the hannover race, but under these circumstances and the given recent history, i openly admit that i am so disappointed.
I'm not sure what your "support" means? I remember you posted early on that you supported his efforts. I never knew what that meant, but now that the event is cancelled I see Dete was all alone in his efforts to pull this off. Maybe the "German group" you are citing should have tried to help from the start, rather than now condemn.

/Jani

Donald Campbell
Pavel
Pavel
Posts: 2036
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:49 pm
Location: germany
Contact:

Post by Donald Campbell » Fri May 16, 2008 8:40 pm

dear jani
we set the courses
we brought the timing
we helped on a few other occasions
oh yes i sponsored the t-shirts too

that was last year

when there is no real communication prior to the race we expect the same thing to happen again.
dete is not in our "group" to say so,but we all thought this event was going to happen as posted with all the necessities that come along with it.it was his one man show,yes,that's right.
but we were still there to support or help if we would have had more details.

if you take your time to reread my pervious post you will also find that i do NOT want to condemn detlev and his vain efforts.sometimes these things geta bit lost in the internet.




on a side note:

luca,if you decide to come i will pay you 100 euros from my own personal purse.
we want to see you and dom is gonna kick your butt sky high to the moon.
again,for you jani,this was a joke,but i stand for my promise made to luca!

Joe Iacovelli
Posts: 1089
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Bristol, CT

Post by Joe Iacovelli » Fri May 16, 2008 9:04 pm

Very nice offer Donald. I'm glad I'm not the only one that wants to see this wrestling match. Please set up cameras.

Cat Young
Bad Kitty
Bad Kitty
Posts: 449
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NorCal baby!

Post by Cat Young » Sat May 17, 2008 7:47 pm

I would like to also see that.

I have only seen old footage of Luca.
I've gotta say.... I like his style!
Image

Riccardo Roma
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:34 pm
Location: Turin, Italy

Post by Riccardo Roma » Sat May 17, 2008 9:00 pm

Donald Campbell wrote:luca,if you decide to come i will pay you 100 euros from my own personal purse.
we want to see you and dom is gonna kick your butt sky high to the moon.
again, for you jani, this was a joke, but i stand for my promise made to luca!
...the only promise that you are able to keep, donald, is to continue to say stupid things...

Cat Young
Bad Kitty
Bad Kitty
Posts: 449
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NorCal baby!

Post by Cat Young » Sat May 17, 2008 9:31 pm

Riccardo Roma wrote:
Donald Campbell wrote: luca,if you decide to come i will pay you 100 euros from my own personal purse.
we want to see you and dom is gonna kick your butt sky high to the moon.
again,for you jani,this was a joke,but i stand for my promise made to luca!
...the only promise that you are able to keep, donald, is to continue to say stupid things...
Riccardo,

Stupid things help the world to go round!!!

Oh man, that was a stupid thing to say!!
Image

Riccardo Roma
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:34 pm
Location: Turin, Italy

Post by Riccardo Roma » Sat May 17, 2008 9:43 pm

...how to contradict you...? ;-)

Donald Campbell
Pavel
Pavel
Posts: 2036
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:49 pm
Location: germany
Contact:

Post by Donald Campbell » Sun May 18, 2008 9:04 am

achtung achtung
this is a message from the fun headquarters in germany to the defender of the holiest of faiths in italy.


LIGHTEN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Riccardo Roma
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:34 pm
Location: Turin, Italy

Post by Riccardo Roma » Sun May 18, 2008 9:13 am

Donald Campbell wrote:LIGHTEN UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
deal

Cat Young
Bad Kitty
Bad Kitty
Posts: 449
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 6:38 pm
Location: NorCal baby!

Post by Cat Young » Mon May 19, 2008 12:38 am

Now boys.........

Wasn't that easy?
:)
Image

Janis kuzmins
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Latvia

Post by Janis kuzmins » Mon May 19, 2008 12:11 pm

Ok, its clear who is the "captain" of this ship.
any way, people who bought a tickets dont need to pay for this games.
Somebody need to be responsible and pay back our money. Hannover or new holder of european championship Amsterdam (they get liability from Hannover). Otherway i agree that Amsterdam can get main status(logical),but not the European Championship, because some people are ready to go to euros where that was planing, but now its in a different location. Somebody need to be responsible but not the riders.
Want to get other issa people opinion.

Donald Campbell
Pavel
Pavel
Posts: 2036
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:49 pm
Location: germany
Contact:

Post by Donald Campbell » Mon May 19, 2008 12:29 pm

janis:
i think it is very clear to you who the people are that make decisions.
peter klang
ramon königshausen
dominik kowalski

go and address your concerns directly tho the aforementioned group.

nobody else is responsible besides those 3 perons regarding status decisions, anything else is violating the rules that have been layed out so carefully over the past years.

Marcus Seyffarth
Posts: 607
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Marcus Seyffarth » Mon May 19, 2008 12:29 pm

About the monetary issue; you do get most of the money back if you cancel a normal flight ticket. The airline will charge you a fee for handling but all the money are not gone.

Luca Giammarco
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Italy

Post by Luca Giammarco » Mon May 19, 2008 12:41 pm

I would like to come in Amsterdam but in this date for me it's impossible(I know this i not so important)..In any case just to inform it's impossible to change a destination of a plane ticket already paied. I 'll recover just the airport taxes (about 100 euro ) and the rest is lost(about 250 euro). Donald and Ramon thanks anyway for your offer. I'm agree with you Jani, in this way some people have lost Paris too. Ramon, i'm not critical with nobody are just the fact. Ciao

Pelle Gustafsson
Pelle
Pelle
Posts: 374
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Sweden

;(

Post by Pelle Gustafsson » Mon May 19, 2008 12:43 pm

Luca Giammarco wrote:I would like to come in Amsterdam but in this date for me it's impossible(I know this i not so important)..In any case just to inform it's impossible to change a destination of a plane ticket already paied. I 'll recover just the airport taxes (about 100 euro ) and the rest is lost(about 250 euro). Donald and Ramon thanks anyway for your offer. I'm agree with you Jani, in this way some people have lost Paris too. Ramon, i'm not critical with nobody are just the fact. Ciao
miss you in paris luca!!

Janis kuzmins
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Latvia

Post by Janis kuzmins » Mon May 19, 2008 1:43 pm

Marcus wrote:About the monetary issue; you do get most of the money back if you cancel a normal flight ticket. The airline will charge you a fee for handling but all the money are not gone.
In my case ticket cost 196.lats (280.eur) i will get back airport taxes only 24.lats, (35.eur), I lost 245.eur.

Marcus Seyffarth
Posts: 607
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Post by Marcus Seyffarth » Mon May 19, 2008 2:01 pm

Well that sucks. When I returned a ticket last year I got more than half of the money back.

You should have higher taxes :-)

Jadranko Radovanovic
Posts: 539
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:40 pm
Location: Grüningen
Contact:

Post by Jadranko Radovanovic » Mon May 19, 2008 4:29 pm

Janis is right. Where are the opinions from the BOD ?

There are no points in the rules about contest marshalls. The only things are the text below and the rules of slalomranking.com with the advanced rule and so on.
Ranking marshalls: What is their job
1. To handle incoming ISSA contest sanction documents from event organizers.
Take care of incoming document. Look through it, discuss it and finally decide if ok and what status the event is granted.

2. Announce official status for each ISSA contest sanction documents
This is done by adding a post in the "ISSA Sanctions granted" forum. See current forum for 2007 http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=4674

3. Add event to the slalomranking event calendar

I understand that in this conditions the solution has to be decided very quick.

But there is no justification for any other solutions than to let the Euros be wehere it was announced. Otherwise the whole giving of Statuses is just a desk act and nothing else.

In every organisation, special situations follws the instances from bottom up.

In my understandig:

1. status marshalls (analysing and solution proposal)
2. BOD (decision)
3. members (decision)

In every discussion there are everytime some argumentation from 3 or 4 sides. I want to hear the statement of the BOD. And i want to hear what they want to learn from this situation and what the next action is to not come again in this situation.


/J-Rad

Ramón Königshausen
Airflow - Skateboards
Airflow - Skateboards
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Contact:

Post by Ramón Königshausen » Mon May 19, 2008 5:38 pm

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you think we did not weight every argument of this issue? (I spent half of my birthday discussing these matters)

Did you think we haven't thought about the consequences? I was feeling pretty sad for those who now have lost money or cannot make it to the Euros this year. But it is to say, that the decision was taken wisley FOR the sport.

I also came up with suggestions and questions of what we shall do towards those who are affected by this decision. So far not too many people replied or came up with useful proposals.


rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Pat Chewning
Pat C.
Pat C.
Posts: 1400
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Portland Oregon

ISSA Sactioning Process and Cancellations

Post by Pat Chewning » Mon May 19, 2008 5:45 pm

There is a process for ISSA events to be cancelled or moved. It is the last item described in the sanctioning document. http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=4658
ISSA SANCTIONING PROCESS wrote:8. CANCELLATION AND CHANGES TO EVENTS
This formal contest sanctioning process should ensure that cancellation and changes are minimized. If a cancellation or change is needed, the Regional Contest Coordinators are empowered to make the changes.
Immediately upon becoming aware of a need for a change, the contest director should notify the appropriate Regional Contest Coordinator and make a request for a change. The Regional Contest Coordinators can decide to accept the change, grant a lower status, transfer the status to another event, or “fix” the problem in any way that does not violate the # of contest status’s assigned to that region
Unfortunately, no matter how much we polish this turd, it still smells like shit. Cancelling a contest is never satisfying to anyone.

Donald Campbell
Pavel
Pavel
Posts: 2036
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:49 pm
Location: germany
Contact:

Post by Donald Campbell » Mon May 19, 2008 9:17 pm

i was also involved in the discussion as some of you can guess.
dom wanted t hear my thoughts on this subject too,he had made his own decision at that time though.
as it seemed we pretty much had the same feelings about this unlucky affair.

as ramon said before:this decision has been made for the sport!
and i want to add also for its credibiltiy.

i find it rather sad that people who never really contribute to anything at all find the time now to start senseless discussions and questioning the decision as a whole.


there goes the credibility....


on the other side i would not want to see all the pissed people walking away from a contest that didn't live up to its expectations.
we had communication problems prior to the contest.
there were some last year too.
i remember people walking away(luca for instance) not having received the promised prize money.

just an example,make of it what you want.

so if this contest would have happened,spiced with flaws and things that went wrong,i do not want to imagine how mayn people would have complained afterwards.
now there is only a few "victims" as i see.
let's leave it like this,it's better that way.
as a german-my oppinion-i want to see a good contest held in germany.and when it is a main it has to live up to certain expectations.
i reflect the thoughts of a bigger group surrounding me
and no-i am not the guru
i'm just speaking out what the group thinks and feels.

as of now there is janis and luca who have lost money.
anybody else?


besides that,janis,you want flavio to pay for your loss?
would you care to explain what lead you to that decision?

Jani Soderhall
ISSA President 2011-2020
ISSA President 2011-2020
Posts: 4127
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:00 am
Location: Sweden, lives in France
Contact:

Post by Jani Soderhall » Mon May 19, 2008 9:45 pm

I think it's also better to cancel an event that couldn't live up to it's "requirements". It's unfortunate, but even more money would have been lost if the event would have been held and had been poorly organized (not that no money necessarily means poorly organized).

I think the ranking marshals have done a good job dealing with this matter.

/Jani

Ramón Königshausen
Airflow - Skateboards
Airflow - Skateboards
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Contact:

E-Mail exchange

Post by Ramón Königshausen » Tue May 20, 2008 12:00 am

Look, this is what I sent out as an e-mail to be discussed by a selection of BOD members:

Ramón Königshausen on May 15, 2008 wrote:
I'm sending you this e-mail because there is a situation we have never had before I guess.

If you followed up the discussion in the European forum you know what I'm talking about: The cancellation of the European Championships 2008 in Hannover one month before the announced date. Logically, quite a few people have already booked their flights and are now taken by surprise that they should be cancelled and moved to Amsterdam, which takes place Aug 16-17.

http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... 25&start=0

Reason
The reason why we, respectively Detlef Rehbock, cancelled this event is lack of sponsors and therefore lack of money to pay the event [...]

Downgrade Event
What I had suggested him, was to run the event anyways but on low budget as a PRIME STATUS event. He wasn't eager to agree on this argument but rather wanted he to cancel the event, than to run it on low budget.

Moving it to Amsterdam
The reason why Dominik, Peter and I wanted to give the Main Status AND the European Championships to Amsterdam is because of Flavio's high effort to put up his event in Amsterdam. It is to say that the City of Amsterdam wants his Slalomskateboard Competion to be one of the three biggest sports events in the City of Amsterdam, right next to a bicycle race and the world best juniors football/soccer cup.

Arrangements
When the four of us (Detlef, Flavio, Dominik and I) discussed the situation in Paris last weekend, we arranged to be ready to announce everything on Wednesday evening. (To avoid more people to book any flights and making hotel reservations).
[...]
When I saw that many many people were confused by Donald's post and curious about what was going on, we could not wait any longer and had to make a preliminary announcement.

How to continue
Now some of the remaining questions are:

* Who is responsible for the conseqences?
* Is it possible to continue with the proposed solution (cancel Hannover, move the Euros to Amsterdam)

or

* do we want to step up for Detlef and make it happen by laying together money so he can run the event even though?



What dou you think is the best way to solve the problem?


I feel really sad about the situation and I would like to make it turn out as comfortable as possible for those who have already spent money on their trip. Furthermore, not everyone will be able to go to Amsterdam instead either, that's something we cannot have an influence on but it can't stay the way it is if we (the ISSA) want not to lose our face.



Thank you for any good input that may help clear the situation,

Ramón


PS: Please forward this e-mail to those who should receive it too or open a Topic on the Members Forum


--

So now you see what's inside. I hope this helps a little giving us clarification as well as a real discussion about such special cases can or should be openend on the members forum finally.

rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Detlef Rehbock
Dete
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 1:29 pm
Location: Hannover, Germany
Contact:

what can i say??

Post by Detlef Rehbock » Tue May 20, 2008 9:26 am

I don´t know, if i can post anything after this decision.

Ramons last post:
* do we want to step up for Detlef and make it happen by laying together money so he can run the event even though?

I clearly said, i will pay for the event from my own pocket, not from laying money together.
I explained everything before. what can you do without money?
After my own decision, to pay for the event, everything could happen. We had the permission and we where ready to run the competition like last year. remember? with the announced price money.

At this time i have to accept the decision of the BOD. I step back from our event, but i can´t really understand the reasons. I accept your arguments from " sports view" but can´t understand them.
At the end you stand alone, only you and your board.
Thanks to everybody, specially to christoph.
Luca and Janis, please send me pm.

I go out for a ride.

Ramón Königshausen
Airflow - Skateboards
Airflow - Skateboards
Posts: 1485
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 2:00 am
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Contact:

Post by Ramón Königshausen » Tue May 20, 2008 12:14 pm

Please note that this e-mail was sent last week during the discussion.

When we had the discussion meeting 2 weeks ago, Dominik and I had the impression that according to Detlef Hannover was very unlikely to happen. In contrast to this there was Flavio stepping up and offering a unique opportunity with his event in Amsterdam.
So under those circumstances we did not hesitate and arranged with both, Detlef and Flavio, that we will announce it on the forum on Wednesday evening. (The reason why we had to announce it asap and could not wait any longer is clear I think)

Moreover, it is to say that our experience with events and event organizers (as well as being an organizer ourselves) also played a role in making our decision.


I find it pretty unappropriate that people now start phantasizing and making proposals of how and that the event should or could have happened despite the circumstances.

We tried to present you the options that we had and we explained why we made this and not that decision. Imagine what would have happened if nobody had said a word about this and you arrived in Hannover with all your expectations (and I presume those would have been rather hight) and found disappointment...

rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Peter Klang
Klangster
Klangster
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Stockholm
Contact:

Post by Peter Klang » Tue May 20, 2008 12:51 pm

Hello crime stoppers,
I really hope we all can put this behind us now and move forward. The decision was based on the facts presented at PWC. Given the time frame to act I think everybody should applaud the solution. I fell really badly for Luca and Janis and those whom paid there tickets and are stuck with em. However, I do belive if delaying the decision we would have put more racers in the same position. Remember, in a situation like this we are all losers.

Look at it from another stand point and we might learn something from this. I don’t feel it’s very productive to write crap about one another, or try to put blame on someone. Let’s make the best of it work together. We are one small community. If we can’t get along in our world, how can it ever be peace between the Hindus and the Muslims in Northern Ireland?

Let’s all sing we shall overcome

Yours Fastest
PK
Last edited by Peter Klang on Tue May 20, 2008 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dominik Kowalski
Posts: 243
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:26 pm
Location: Cologne, Germany

Post by Dominik Kowalski » Tue May 20, 2008 1:53 pm

i lost over 800€ as I wanted to enter the slalom competition at the paskapoo rodeo last year. Two days later, it got canceled. I never got that money back.....well, who to blame?
<a href="http://www.pavel-skates.com" target="_blank" class="postlink">SEX, DRUGS & BACKSIDE ROCK'N'ROLL...</a>
keep on rollin'...

Peter Klang
Klangster
Klangster
Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:26 am
Location: Stockholm
Contact:

Post by Peter Klang » Tue May 20, 2008 3:18 pm

Dominik Kowalski wrote:i lost over 800€ as I wanted to enter the slalom competition at the paskapoo rodeo last year. Two days later, it got canceled. I never got that money back.....well, who to blame?
were did you get €800 from? please return the funds at ones.

Donald Campbell
Pavel
Pavel
Posts: 2036
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:49 pm
Location: germany
Contact:

Post by Donald Campbell » Tue May 20, 2008 5:24 pm

inbetween races dom never leaves the house.i know there's some sharpshooters right across the street waiting for retribution!

Locked