[2008] Prizes At The Gorge Games, Feedback, Complaints,

North American Slalom Races & Results

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Marcus Seyffarth
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Post by Marcus Seyffarth » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:17 pm

So if I nominate Greg and Donald for the ISSA board of 2010 then ISSA will no longer be a bunch of sissies and all races will be great?

Its easy to blame ISSA for not doing the right things, but it seems like you forget that this is a small, small, small sport with races being held by volunteers, brands being created in the basement after normal work hours and the ISSA being you, me and those 7 that stepped up and took the job that no one wanted.

Its not really ISSA's fault that a race is slow, that there are no major sponsors, that small companies that create slalom stuff does not make any money so that they prefer to give away stuff instead of hard cash. I guess it would be ISSA's fault if there was a wide selection of professional race directors that got denied in getting status for their races. But that never happened did it?

Its not ISSA's fault that its mostly old, bitter and bald men that still hang on to slalom. But perhaps if we keep this positive vibe up we can close the curtain for good in december. At least then all boards would become more valuable at ebay.

Joe Iacovelli
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:38 pm

Donald,

I'm like a balloon with the air let out at your last post. I fully understand your frustration with the Gorge Games debacle and the ISSA's inability to respond with haste and certainty. I hope with the new board members, there will be some changes to fix the sluggishness.

BUT

I take you statement of publically divorcing yourself and Pavel from slalom personally. I've run dozens of races now, each one with the help of my friends, the city of Antrim, etc. We deliver, usually at our own expense, a competative race and a fun time for everyone. I am not alone. Ricky Bird, The DHB, The TX outlaws all do the same. Goad and Harms do the same. COSS does the same.

I believe your statements, although generated by the negative in our organization and our sport, diminish the hardwork and things that are positive. And as I respect you and your efforts in skateboarding, it makes me feel foolish to continue.

Joe

Christopher Bara
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Post by Christopher Bara » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:29 pm

Joe, check Dons post again...
"pavel will not support any of the sanctioned races this year,sorry... "

"The Farm" that you and Tway threw is a legend in the history books, but a large reason for it's fame was it's anti-organizational roots.
"The Gathering" is long gone, but it was popular because of it's Grass Roots.
"The Beast of the East" is an absolute blast...because its a series for skaters who want to do it for the fun of it again.
"Indian School" is a nut-up event and will go to the history books as a legend one day as well..

three of those four are unsanctioned...the Farm may as well be, because it's heart was in a different place...it was with the rest of those listed....

There's more too....and we all know which ones they are....they're the ones that dont have people sandbagging..theyre the ones with one bracket...they're the ones without arguments over cone penalties and times..the ones without the promise of schwag and points

Theyre the ones where we all get together...skate our asses off...and at the end of the weekend somebody wins the bragging rights of saying they were the fastest one on the hill that weekend.

Marcus, i'm not bald or old...or even bitter....just disillusioned.....not in the racing.....just in what the racing scene was becoming...which was allot of whining little b1tches, unjustified over inflated egos, and office politics....The sport grew fast and it wasnt managed....is that the ISSA's fault? nope....not really, but it IS their problem if they were to oversee the sport....

There's nothing i can add that i didnt say earlier....and that hasnt been expressed elsewhere in this thread.

Personally, i'm stoked on some of the smaller unsanctioned races coming up this year....i think it's going to be intense....and dangerous...I'm just hoping the unsanctioned races dont get so big that they start attracting skaters who read threads like this and dont "get it"

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:40 pm

Chris,

Donald says "slalom in general" and Antrim and The Farm are both "Main" races this year.

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Post by Christopher Bara » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:48 pm

the "Farm" is on this year?.....Let me ask you this....and this is just an opinion as an outsider of course...

If the Farm had ZERO points would people still come and would they be just as stoked to be there?.....(i'm guessing yes)

If Antrim had ZERO points...would people still come and would they be just as stoked to be there? .... (i'm not sure about that one)

I've heard good things about antrim, good things from good skaters....but why was it such a big deal that it got Major status?......a good race is a good race....for other reasons

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:14 pm

Last year Tway and I refused points for the Farm. It was my protest against the diminshed points assigned Jack for the nationals per his attempt at innovation. I thought the board should grant a varience. It was Wentzle's 50th Bday and well attended, but not our biggest race ever, which in retrospect is fine.

Here is who it does matter to;

#1 The town of Antrim and from my conversations, the town of Statesville. The fact that the race is sanctioned by an international governing body raises it's legitimacy and prestige (at least to those not reading this website). I don't know if that is right or wrong, but it just is. In Statesville it helped close a state road.

#2 One friend of mine that owns a board company likes his racers to do well in points because he thinks it is a good advertisement to have top 5, top 10 racers on his boards.

#3 My kid Nick. He's #2 in the US in Boys and #4 in the US in juniors this year. He wants to do better next year. Those of you that know Nick have seen him blossom from a cute kid to a serious racer. Points to some degree inspire and reward that. He wants to go to more races in 09 to improve his rank. I beleive this is a "hook" for recruiting younger racers.

I think we need a framework of rules and an ability to rate racers world wide. I think we need the legitimacy of a governing body that helps us get roads closed and events handled.
Is it the ISSA? Until someone starts something different, I don't know that we have a choice.

I encourage the new board to blow it up, shed what is cumbersome, make some changes, decide not vacilate. Tell us you are meeting. Tell us we'll hear from you in 10 days, 30 days, 100 days whatever.

Donal, Greg, everyone,

I think we have expressed what we don't want. How about stating what we do want?

DO you really wish to disolve the ISSA? Or are you looking for a more decisive and nimble governing body?

Donald Campbell
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Post by Donald Campbell » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:19 pm

joe...
no disrespect to anybody! who goes to the pain to hold a race,honestly!!!
here are my points and thoughts:
#1

i strongly disagree with the current ranking system.
as it is i see a potential danger when kids or grown-ups just stare at points given and value the race in question by the point ranking it is given.
this is wrong for several reasons.
a good race will always be remembered,points just fade away...
#2

the current,ongoing state,of the issa is just a laughing stock to me.
each year a few individuals sign up for whatever "task" there is to be done.each year everybody is full of promises,at the end of the year some of those promising folks added nothing really to the whole deal.
there still is no valid homepage existant,there is no real official logo,only endless debates on that shit.
just the tip of the mountain,just the tip.

#3

credibility of this organization goes toward zero for me.

#4
this whole issa thing is a fucking paragraph jungle and it totally limits the possibilities
this sport gives to each and everyone.
regulations are good,but only to a certain extent.






getting back to your final questions and something i want to say in general:
as greg said before,it's not about the money,but there are certain principles each and every organizer has to follow,or group of organizers.
as i see it,some folks can do whatever they want,nobody really cares or wants to get involved.
i am the troubleman and the overasshole,because i simply speak out what i think and i address my thoughts in a very direct way,some people don't like this,for whatever reason.
hey greg and chris,thanks for confronting others with your thoughts,joe,you are also very honest,thank you for that.

if,say greg,bara,me,would take this thing in our hands changes would be very drastic and immediate.
it would be for the good of the whole deal for sure.
i know the right folks to be involved,greg for sure too,definitely.


you know,if this continues to be as it is there will be something like an anti-movement,sooner or later,it's gonna happen.
i do not want to say that i am threatening anybody here or that i might be the initiator of this,but.... i would not be the last one to totally dig that thing.

as for pavel and maybe walking away from slalom.
no

wait til the homepage is up again,it will be an eye-opener for some,a lot,for sure.
and yes,i will totally polarize,more than i ever did.
but what you will see there is the future,that's my goal!!!!!!!

this is not meant to promote pavel
its meant to be provocative for sure.


i am very very disappointed with almost verything that happened here the last weeks,years,that's all,but some folks could care less.

thanks again for your open ears joe!

Hans Koraeus
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Post by Hans Koraeus » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:15 am

Don't know if this is the right place for the discussion but what the...

If there are any complaints towards an event what so ever...

1. Complain to the event organizer.

2. If not solved complain to the World Ranking Marshals/Coordinators
They are the governing body for the ISSA World Ranking statuses. They have many options of how they could act concerning this.

3. If not solved complain to ISSA
They are the governing body for rules and regulations. They have many options of how they could act concerning this.

4. If still not solved get involved
Get a movement going. Try to get your ideas accepted by the group of Ranking Marshals or the ISSA board depending on the problem. Try to work for a change if you have a solution. Get selected into these bodies if you think this will increase your chance of success.

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:12 am

When something is wrong some people just love to turn their anger on ISSA. It's so easy. And funny enough most of these people don't think ISSA is worth anything. But why then bother complaining at something which is nothing. Well because ISSA is something important and should be something important for our sport or like and international body for any sport for that matter.

Why not blame the finacial crisis on ISSA too?

There are a lot of problems out there in the slalom skateboarding world needed to be attended to. That is why we have ISSA. Some sort of a governing body. And ISSA members. Who can together work for the direction of where we want to go with our slalom world. We should work for a stronger and more vital ISSA. Not trying to work against it.

ISSA has nothing against lawless, underground, fun only or whatever other funny version of slalom related race there might be. So why should those people who want this have anything against ISSA? It's just two different ways of slalom racing that will always exist side by side. It's not one or the other. And some people like just one of these aspects of racing but most propably like having both of them.

But the main goal for ISSA is not "lawless, underground, fun only or whatever other funny version of slalom related race there might be". For that you don't need an organisational body. The goal of ISSA is to try an build up the serious competitive side of slalom racing. And that is what it does. And tries to do still.
Donald wrote:i strongly disagree with the current ranking system.
as it is i see a potential danger when kids or grown-ups just stare at points given and value the race in question by the point ranking it is given.
this is wrong for several reasons.
a good race will always be remembered,points just fade away...
You are so wrong Donald. It's just the opposite. A ranking system will be a motivation for people to go to races. And with statuses we can make people come together for the same races when you don't have the budget or time to go to them all.
A good race will be remembered much longer and stronger when there are points involved. With points that are counted into something bigger than that single event. And with the points people will travel more to events and will have more opportunities to have good memories and fun events.
the current,ongoing state,of the issa is just a laughing stock to me.
each year a few individuals sign up for whatever "task" there is to be done.each year everybody is full of promises,at the end of the year some of those promising folks added nothing really to the whole deal.
there still is no valid homepage existant,there is no real official logo,only endless debates on that shit.
just the tip of the mountain,just the tip
The current, ongoing state, of Donald is just a laughing stock to me. ISSA is not just the board members. ISSA is all its members. You too. That is why you are actually saying that you yourself is to be laughed about. And you are right if that was the intention.

There are tasks to be done for sure. For all of us. If ISSA board members are not doing a good job they will be changed. And others will try to do better. Unfortunately you don't seem to be one of them.
There is a homepage www.slalomskateboarder.com that yourself wanted to help out with to make better. So blame yourself if you did not manage to do what you intended. My goal is to make the Worldranking (www.slalomranking.com) the homepage for our international slalom scene. Would make a sense since our world is built upon events and results.

There is an official logo for ISSA. It's just that some want to change it for a new one.

Please let us know more about your mountain of air.
Donald wrote:credibility of this organization goes toward zero for me

For you yes maybe. But since you are so out of the loop that is not so strange.
Donald wrote:this whole issa thing is a fucking paragraph jungle and it totally limits the possibilities this sport gives to each and everyone.
regulations are good, but only to a certain extent.
First you say it's a paragraph jungle. Then you say regulations are good. You could better just have said nothing. But it's hard to stop whining once you have started... please if not from the whole slalom scene at least walk away from your keyboard for a while.

Hans Koraeus
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Post by Hans Koraeus » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:31 am

Christopher Bara wrote:i wasnt going to post on this again, but Corky that's so fuckin ridiculous, who are you leaving off, the Queen and the United fucking Nation?

How about this?
If you get hosed, then complain to the organizer,
If they blow you off tell the ISSA
and then the ISSA can DO something other than type a fuckin
keyboard and have the organizer cough it up and/or down his
ranking for the next years race

but again....why the hell dont people GET it???
this isnt about the money....WTF!!!
Why is this all so hard for people to grasp??

I need a drink....youre right...this is like talking to a wall
What is so ridicoulas with what I say? I say exactly what I want to say...

World Ranking Marshals are the governing body for the ISSA World Ranking statuses. They have many options of how they could act concerning this. Board of ISSA are the governing body for rules and regulations. They have many options of how they could act concerning this.

If they still don't get it you fight for your solution. I'm not sure what your solution is though. ISSA is no Police and can't force anybody into doing anything. They can only help solving the problem the best they can. And support you in your case. The only weapon they might have is the event status.

And I don't know why you say "this isn't about the money". I never said anything at all about money. So it makes me wonder if it is not the money it is about after all. Hmmm...

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:29 am

Donald,

Since this is public, please let me settle it in public. I did/do not take the things you say as disrespect. To the contrary, that you care enough to speak up is positive. I thank you for speaking up. Many either don't care, are fed up, or don't want to hurt anyones feelings.

What i take exception with is a singular focus on what is wrong, when so much of what we do is right, fun, cool, whatever. You wouldn't be fighting to save it if it wasn't.

So like I said. BLOW IT UP. What do we do next guys?

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:39 am

Here is my real contribution for today;

An ombudsman (English plural: conventionally ombudsmen) is an official, usually appointed by the head of state who is charged from the public by investigating complaints reported by citizens and addressing them, usually through mediating a settlement.

I say we have one here, one in the EU. If you get skunked at a race, you can take it up with the ombudsman. No resolution? No ISSA sanction next year. But be prepared, the ombudsman rules within his good conscience. You may complain about a cone being out of a circle at a race in east canuckistan, and not be given the answer you want. Often in professional sports the referee on the field makes the call, right or wrong.

Nominate, vote, and for 2009 we accept whatever this man or woman decides.

We need action, accountability, honor, and decisivness. But when the ombudsman doesn't rule in your favor, shut up and skate.

Joe

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Post by Miguel Marco » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:55 am

Joe Iacovelli wrote:You may complain about a cone being out of a circle at a race in east canuckistan
Bad example, no one ever complains over here... ;) :D

Donald Campbell
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Post by Donald Campbell » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:26 am

so much bs and contradiction in your recent post corky

you know that and still you post that stuff


one question on one point you mentioned:
why in the world don't you attend those races that encourage you to go reg the points?
lets see your track record for the last 2 seasons.
of course you will have a valid excuse,of course...
that's where the bs starts.
each point of your recent posts can be treated like that and each objection i have is valid.

instead of treating people like fools who really contribute to the sport you act like a moron.
sets you worlds apart from joe's way.
but that's exactly the point.
stubborness and crawling around in paragraphs-there you go.

joe,i'll talk to you privately the next days
shoot me your phone# again please.

Wesley Tucker
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:56 pm

Admin note:

Since this no longer has anything to do with The World's at Hood River I made it a new topic. As has been the practice with SS.com for several years there is now a FORUM for the 2009 Words in the Races And Results forum. I tried to split away all the posts regarding what this topic discusses from the posts of people looking for a room and an airport.
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Jack Smith
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Post by Jack Smith » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:30 pm

Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?

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Post by Rick Floyd » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:08 pm

Jack Smith wrote:Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
Well, for one thing, I agree with Fadell - the internet is not the place to solve anything. Too easy to have a 'tude and say things you wouldn't say in person - or at the very least would be better said in private, not broadcast to the entire world. I am not exempting myself from this...been there.

I think everyone in this thread has at least a few valid points, but when it beomes a public pissing match - "you said, I said, then you said, and you suck" - it serves nobody.

I have been internationally competitive in four different sports, and there are similarities to our current ISSA issues in ALL the governing bodies. The bottom line is that all are still fun and we LOVE to compete. They are what they are, none are perfect, and change is possible and encouraged - but often takes longer than people want. The rules are the rules - whether they are loose or strict - and you can race if you want to, under those rules, or stay home. I had plenty of times in all my sports where I didn't like some aspect of the competitions. Did I still race? You bet. Did I have fun? Almost all the time. Do I have great lifetime memories? Absolutely. Did I make good friends? Many. Do I even remember what my complaints or objections were? Not really, and if I do, they don't seem nearly as important as the other good things that came from it.

In all the sports I have EVER competed in, there are people there to just have fun, and people there who are insanely compeititve, and a ton of folks running the gamut through the middle of that continuum. There has almost always been disagreement between these people about how things should be run. I'm not sure that will ever change, no matter what.

I'm just glad I get to race in East Canuckistan, home of hourglass-coned wheels, full bags, red barons, rookies, bière froide, and filles chaudes de planche à roulettes. How do you like them rules?

I hope we can all get along - maybe go skating some time. I'd like to skate with Donald, and Corky, and Jack, and Mig...even Joe! ;-)

You know, the same thing tends to happen in the snowboard racing forums in the summer, when people aren't riding - the internet arguments flare. We all need to SKATE MORE!

I know I haven't provided any solutions - but hopefully a little perspective. Sk8rs are the best.

-RF
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Post by Eddy Martinez » Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:08 am

Is true skaters are the best. I too am off my board, and not by choice. Maybe a bit dissalousioned. Maybe I am naieve. The saddest thing in life is wasted talent. Ride hard and fast this year Greg. Your Amigog Eddy Texas Outlaws.

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Hood River

Post by Joyce Wheldrake » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:44 pm

So I went to Hood River last year for the Gorge Games. I got 4th place in Hybrid and Tight. The placing was predictable. The best part is that I got to race Lynn Kramer, trying to use her board against her in a Kramer vs. Kramer Battle.
The worst part was hitting a car during my run with Judi. It was one foot outside the barrier I didnt really hear that i was not supposed to go there, otherwise the run off would be too short. You finish your run and are screaming down the road.
A good contest would have had someone down at the bottom. monitoring the racers. Protecting the racers from cars, etc. Telling ppl to move because there are racers coming. The Sunday had someone doing that job. As this was part of the Gorge Games, I would have thought that there would be enough ppl to run this race. Since they are not part of the GG this year, I hope and wonder that there will enough volunteers to provide a safe run to competitors.
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:27 pm

Joyce,

Have a nice day.
Last edited by Joe Iacovelli on Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Not About Prize

Post by Joyce Wheldrake » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:46 pm

It is about how they ran the race. WTF is it to you Joe? You were not even there.
It was not that good a race because they didnt have anyone at the bottom. Is that done?
If and when we have a race here in Toronto I will ensure someone is there at the bottom to make things safe. Is that not done? I thought this is where complaints about the Hood River Race were. Yes the scenery was great.

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Post by Donald Campbell » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:21 pm

joe cares a lot
more than you can imagine joyce.
i think you just caught joe on the wrong foot,to say so.
your complaint,as you wrote it,doesn't really come out as a complaint,i made the same mistake when reading prior to your unfriendly reply to joe.
see,nobody cares about your epic race with lynn,your protest was a bit misleading,errr.
nevertheless a valid complaint.
how do you feel about racers getting burned at races?
what do you think as an organizer?

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:23 pm

Wesley changed the title of the thread. Joyce is right to post her issues under the new title, that's why I deleted my post. I think though if she had read any of the previous posts, she might have seen there was something bigger going on.

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Post by Rick Stanziale » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:27 pm

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Pavel STILLsucks!

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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:21 pm

Rick, you seem to be a very mature person.

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:58 pm

It's always a marvelous event when the cosmos aligns and Rick's world converges with ours for a brief moment in time.
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Post by Christopher Bara » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:22 pm

I think Joyce's comments were appropriate for the heading of this thread.....
but the heading is misleading,.......
this really has nothing to do with the Gorge Games ....and everything to do with ISSA's involvement in the race season.

Rick youre cartoons are gettting better
Last edited by Christopher Bara on Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Rick Floyd » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:22 pm

Ramón Königshausen wrote:Rick, you seem to be a very mature person.

rmn
You got that right....47 next week. I feel more mature every morning! Thanks rmn. :-)
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Post by Marty Schaub » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:51 am

66 doesn't march to his own drummer he leads the whole dammed freaking band. That's why we love him here in JoJa.
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:07 am

Let me suggest this again. Can one of my friends on the board of directors propose this please.

Joe Iacovelli wrote:Here is my real contribution for today;

An ombudsman (English plural: conventionally ombudsmen) is an official, usually appointed by the head of state who is charged from the public by investigating complaints reported by citizens and addressing them, usually through mediating a settlement.

I say we have one here, one in the EU. If you get skunked at a race, you can take it up with the ombudsman. No resolution? No ISSA sanction next year. But be prepared, the ombudsman rules within his good conscience. You may complain about a cone being out of a circle at a race in east canuckistan, and not be given the answer you want. Often in professional sports the referee on the field makes the call, right or wrong.

Nominate, vote, and for 2009 we accept whatever this man or woman decides.

We need action, accountability, honor, and decisivness. But when the ombudsman doesn't rule in your favor, shut up and skate.

Joe

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Post by Joyce Wheldrake » Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:16 pm

This group may have a better chance of securing volunteers with the Gorge Games not going on. Their small town would have had to have all volunteers on deck for every event going on. Maybe they will be able to have someone at the bottom for the safety of the racers. Maybe even two people.
This was a one time thing. I have never hit a car before. It was reversing, I would have missed it had it not been moving.
Judi said she was shorted $. She should have to say so for herself.
Dont get me in trouble with this group. I want to go back. Thanks DC Shoes for saving my feet, and Rector knee pads for the protection. This is my last post on this subject. Have at it all of you.

Wesley Tucker
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:50 pm

Joe Iacovelli wrote:Let me suggest this again. Can one of my friends on the board of directors propose this please.

Joe Iacovelli wrote:Here is my real contribution for today;

An ombudsman (English plural: conventionally ombudsmen) is an official, usually appointed by the head of state who is charged from the public by investigating complaints reported by citizens and addressing them, usually through mediating a settlement.

I say we have one here, one in the EU. If you get skunked at a race, you can take it up with the ombudsman. No resolution? No ISSA sanction next year. But be prepared, the ombudsman rules within his good conscience. You may complain about a cone being out of a circle at a race in east canuckistan, and not be given the answer you want. Often in professional sports the referee on the field makes the call, right or wrong.
Joe,

I'm not trying to dodge the issue here but let me ask a serious question: why does this take any sort of official ISSA action? If someone wants to take on these responsibilities then they can do it. Any information the Ombudsman collects can be posted here or e-mailed to a Board member for any action. I still don't know what that action would be other than prohibiting a sanction for next year's race but I'll listen to those suggestions also.

Do you think an "official appointment" would bear more weight when the Ombudsman contacts someone for more information? I can understand that. What I don't quite know, though, is why this should be delayed while waiting on some sort of agreement. If someone wants to do it then do it. Start now. (That's not being a smartass. That's being practical: it's something anyone can do now who wants to take on the job.)

Again, I'm not trying to be flippant but just stressing that sometimes there's no need to wait for someone else to make a decision. Just do it.

I will say one thing, though, about the North America/EU delegation of power. It is possible someone on the Board of Directors could take the bull by the horns and assume these responsibilities now for North America. As Peter Klang is the only Board member now in Europe I don't want it assumed he'll do the job over there.
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:03 pm

Wesley,

Are you suggesting that I can have what I think is a good idea and institiute it without the boards approval? Once again that negates the authority of the ISSA and the BOD.

In my world the Ombudsman has power, the position is pointless otherwise. He decides what is worth escalating and what gets squashed with a "sorry charlie". IMO that requires approval of the BOD and an appointment of someone they trust.

So I disagree with your assesment. Are you the only board member that reads this website?

Joe

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Post by Jonathan Harms » Wed Feb 25, 2009 4:47 pm

Joe Iacovelli wrote: Are you the only board member that reads this website?

Joe
No. I have been reading this thread all along. I suspect/hope the other board members have as well, but I'll let them speak for themselves.

I've refrained on commenting until I have the time to dedicate to taking action. I've had several outside commitments, besides my regular job, that have kept me pretty busy for the last two weeks or so. I expect them to continue for at least the next week. After that I should have more time to devote to Board (and I don't mean riding one) duties.

Joe, do you think an Ombudsman should be a Board member (or SHOULDN'T be)?

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Wed Feb 25, 2009 5:13 pm

Thank you Johnny. While I value Wesley's POV, sometimes it's the only one we get.

Traditionally an Ombudsman is an independent position, outside the board. My idea is that you went to a race and you had an issue, the ombudsman first makes a decision on if your issue is actionable. That means you need to appoint a person trusted by the BOD. It also means that this person wields a certain ammount of power as they act as a gatekeeper to the BOD and as part of applying for sanction, an organizer agrees to be acountable to the Ombudsman.

Here are some examples;

In 2004, Paris, CFav knocked his cones into my lane and the inexperienced marshalls DQed us both. In issues like this, I believe the organizer is king, and as an ombudsman would refuse to seek resolution. This stuff gets worked out on the hill or not at all.

If you show up to a race and the advertised GS becomes a flat, perhaps that merits action. Maybe that organizer gets a lower ranked race the following year? That would be escalated to the BOD by the Ombudsman.

In the recent issue at Hood, the Ombudsman would have been contacted by Greg, George, whomever. Then he or she would investigate, document, and attempt to resolve. If unable to resolve, he or she would escalate to the board and at that point the responsibility is with the BOD.

Perhaps this further explanation of my vision for the position demonstrates why it needs to be appointed by the BOD. Without some power, the postion is pointless. Why would I, as an organizer respond to he or she? Why would I as a racer with an issue waste my time talking to a busybody when I could just go to the BOD directly?

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Post by Pat Chewning » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:47 pm

The ISSA already did give some of this power and trust to the "status marshalls" for each region.

Joe, as I remember, was the 1st to try to go AROUND the status marshalls decision and go to the BOD directly when the status marshalls made a decision that he did not agree with.

So what is going to be different with the "ombudsman"?

(Think back to the status for the US Nationals.)

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:50 pm

The ombudsman is not here for status gripes, but for issues or complaints from racers.

I don't know that my protest of points awarded to the US nationals last year is germain to this conversation.

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:09 pm

Pat,

Did you have any responsibility for Hood last year? Can you speak up?

Joe

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Post by Pat Chewning » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:34 am

Joe Iacovelli wrote:Pat,

Did you have any responsibility for Hood last year? Can you speak up?

Joe
FOR 2008

I was responsible for filling in the ISSA application for the event, basing it on information from Gareth Roe. I offered this service to any contest organizer that would ask.

I was responsible for setting up the timing equipment and computers for the timing and scoring.

I was an officer in the ISSA (Vice President), and a member of the sanctioning group (with Eddie Martinez and Chris Barker). I voted yes to sanctioning this event.

I got a check from the Gorge Games for $300 for my timing services (I did not expect or demand this). By the time I got around to cashing it, all the money was gone and the check bounced. My bank charged me $25 for a bounced check.

This year (2009) I am taking on a more active role in the organization of the ISSA 2009 Slalom Skateboarding World Championships at Hood River. I am currently working with Gareth Roe and Judy Harris. We three are the main organizers

This year, my responsibilities include:
A) Permits for the race venues.
B) Timing
C) Financial arrangements (getting the money, paying the prizes)
D) Setting up the web page of information and sign-ups
E) Working with Gareth and Judy to ensure the planning and execution go well

THIS YEAR:
1) Prizes promissed will be paid IN CASH at the end of each event.
2) Prizes promissed will be 100% paid.
3) Any excess funds available will be used to boost the prize payouts.
4) The entire accounting of all money received and payed will be publicly available information for all to see. (Including all racers, organizers, sponsors, and others who pay, don't pay, get refunds, etc.)

I have commited to Judy and Gareth that the web site for information and sign-up will be available for racers before 15MARCH.

The financial arrangements I am making for the event will put my personal checking account at risk until moneys are received from the racers and sponsors.
Last edited by Pat Chewning on Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:36 am

Obviously you read my question, but not the thread it was attached to.

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Post by Pat Chewning » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:23 am

Further clarification for Joe I's question:

1) Why did racers get screwed?
A) Because the race sponsor skrewed up.

2) Why contest organization was not speaking up?
A) Speaking only for myself: The finances and the arrangements between Gorge Games and the 2008 race organization was never known to me and still remains a mystery. So I have no basis for speaking up about what I don't know.

3) Why did the ISSA reward Hood River the WC?
I'm speculating here, but I believe that Hood River was the ONLY application received, and that the ISSA decided that having the WC at Hood River is better than not having it. (I was not involved in the decision-making process for this). I also speculate that the non-payment of some prize money in 2008 was not reported to the ISSA, so they knew nothing about it until after the WC had been awarded.

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:02 am

Apparently accountability means something different to me. Sorry for the fuss.

I'm done.

Locked