"the dark side of the cone"

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 1:58 am

4th of July Boston’s after-slalom “tea party” at some Chinese restaurant:
Duck, Fish, Chicken, Christina’s Breasts…that’s all I remember seeing at the table. I’m glad I’m not the only one…
Hope my girlfriend never checks this site!

Chris Chaput · Post by **Chris Chaput** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 12:32 am

New Rule: Vlad doesn't get to vote.

New Vote: Vlad's girlfriend, Ilva, Ilva's girlfriends

Who cares if they can stand on a board?

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 11:32 pm

If I were to vote on 3 active best looking (sexiest) slalomers in US today, it’d be:

III. Wes Focker, formelly known as WesE on this forum for his moves, no-compromise dress code and bold skating.
II. Charley Ransom for his style and the looks.
I. John Gilmour, who really doesn’t need any explanations.

Of course, Jani would get the most style points.
Here’s a related funny quote by Peter Klapka: “Jani is quick, experienced, but his style isn’t so ideal.”

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 11:12 pm

I for one am very happy with the large turnout at the races.

I really am not interested in seeing how fast TK, Tway, UR13 and Noah are---though it is always fun to see Vlad surprise me with ridiculous improvement.

It's Troy, and other racers..."emerging new threats" to the above mentioned people that are really fun to see come out and race.

Best to see a newbie come out that tried the course- blows out, DQ's and goes home ....only to show up to the next race more determined and practiced and geared up. Some of the fast guys now were "those people" a few races ago.

Some people....myself included, were determined to practice in secret until I felt good enough to ....possibly place in a race. Well that takes way too long (lots of wasted years- skating alone- which sucks compared to hooking up with racers and posting times together).

It is a lot faster to go out there and race- figure out what needs to be done to win a race....by........actually racing- than by trying to guess how it would be.

Besides in our PC world nobody gives a "true view" of what goes on at the races. My July 4th race was so hot- we were all just barely keeping from passing out...I couldn't even do the bracketing at times. We had 4 timing systems and still it took 2 hours to get them to run since some were wired differently and were not compatible.

But to read it on the web- you'd think it was all perfect. And you would think everyone is a bunch of combative smack talking egomaniacs at these races- and for the most part you never met a more humble bunch of fellas.

So you do have to race- or you'll never know what it was like.....especially from reading it on the web. Talk to someone else who was there in private- you'd get a picture....but only their picture- though it is likely to be more accurate- from anyone's point of view.

So the new race to watch? Troy vs Curt Kimble.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 11:12 pm

You go Tucker! With your Bad Bad self.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:46 pm

Vaso, it means you go to races, race and are part of the racing scene. Results come with racing, not from just talking about it.

You're on the inside, doing what it takes to make yourself a more competitive racer. What you are NOT is some sorry posing slacker standing outside on the sidewalk with your nose pushed up against the glass screaming, "no! no! Not like that! Don't do it the way experience says to do it, do it the way endless voyeuristic fantasies wish it would be!"

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:35 pm

My results:
Keep in mind that this is a joke!!

da Farm v. 2: GS: DQ; TS: DQ (but I at least tried it.)

NJ flatland thing: QUALIFIED at snails pace! Lost to my good friend Jim S. And that is why he is on my hit list.
------------
So, um....what does this all mean??
Answer: That I suck the big fat monkey and need practice...lots of it!!

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:07 pm

My results in 2002:

The Gathering: 12.09 time in the Cyber Slalom
Somewhere between 9th and 15th place in the Hybrid. I remember my time was in the 17s, but I forget the placing.

Folly Beach - The round of Eight in regular slalom, losing to Paul Price
Round of Eight in the 36" Slalom, again losing to the same lucky Imperialist Limey (By the way, what else did he do that's memorable in 2002?)
The round of eight in longboard slalom, losing to John Gilmour.

Boston - The round of eight in tight slalom, losing to Eric (PSR) Brammer
The round of eight in hybrid slalom, losing to Terence Kirby.

DC Outlaw Series, July 27th - The round of Eight, losing to Curt Kimbel
Longboard - A decent time on Curt's board, but no where near the top eight

'da Farm - lousy performance from beginning to rain. I went down the hill a total of five times all day and only had two runs where I stayed in the course.

Georgia State Championships - waited as long as I could before going to a rather disappointing football game ('Cocks 7, Dawgs 13.)

2002 World Slalom Championships - 17th out of 16 qualifiers in the Open (did not qualify)
Qualified for the "B" group pros and eliminated by Attila Aszoldi.

Mountain State Slalom Skate - Spectated with the best of 'em. Most notable accomplishement is I avoided contacting pneumonia.

Ok, there's my race results. What's yours, you sorry, lousy, keyboard racing poser? Oh, and don't forget: Adam N ain't saving anyone on this site. Don't expect someone to come along and make the boo boos go away.

Brady Mitchell · Post by **Brady Mitchell** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 8:33 pm

Beware of the net mazis. You know, those that profess to eliminate thier foes albeit with a keyboard stroke.

Classic examples are those that continue to use and abuse the rating system over on ncdsa...(with an abuse rating)

And now there is some who proclaim they will attack and eliminate any keyboard racers. Wait a minute? Doesn`t that make them a keyboard racer? Will they attack and eliminate themselves?

Take it to the streets and cones.

Immaturity and impotence are easily expressed on the web. Real folks do thier talking with thier racing results.

Henry Julier · Post by **Henry Julier** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 7:39 pm

Oh man.

Just got a message from Joe. He's feeling very confused because I always pick on him. He says he's the only one who loves me, and he doesn't deserve such treatment.

Naturally I have to prove him wrong.

If you love Henry J say Aye!

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 9:54 pm

Henry,

I'd vote for Ilva (strictly because of the "accent" she brings to racing, you understand.)

Of course, you're certainly welcome to your preferenes . . . not that there's anything wrong with that!

Henry Julier · Post by **Henry Julier** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 9:28 pm

Well this forum sure died rather quickly.
let's spice things up, shall we?

I want everyone's vote for the best looking slalomer. You can interpret "best looking" any way you want.

My vote goes to Joe Iacovelli. A sort of beauty arises from the chaos there.

henry

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:31 pm

On 2002-12-05 14:33, Jim Siener wrote:
Matt,
I'll give you 5 cones AND I will ride my BASS Board. You'll need more than a strong push to beat me, you gotta pump at sometime.

If I loose I'll blame the board and go and buy a Roe, then I will toast you back.

Jim

That is why I said I need some pumping skills, Jimbo!! Aftter I get those, you can ride a Roe, an Ick, a Turner, a rocket-boosterd, super, Star Destroyer with Seismics made on Saturn, and you'll still see my a*s.

Ok, maybe that is too much smack on my part, but I will win...eventually!!

Chris Chaput · Post by **Chris Chaput** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:06 am

Henry, Joe is not smart enough for manual labor. The Family Feudalism does not suck. It gets kisses from Richard Dawson. A Dick kiss and sucking are two different things (I think).

The first 6 letters letters of Christopher is lord-like enough for me. "I stop her" are the last 8 letters in my name. This means that all of you ladies will never beat me in a race. Ever. You will be stopped. Period.

Lord Christopher has spoken. As you were.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Chaput on 2002-12-06 02:07 ]</font>

Jim Siener · Post by **Jim Siener** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 8:33 pm

Matt,
I'll give you 5 cones AND I will ride my BASS Board. You'll need more than a strong push to beat me, you gotta pump at sometime.

If I loose I'll blame the board and go and buy a Roe, then I will toast you back.

Jim

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:35 am

"Ick" is what I said when my mom used to try and make me eat Lima Beans.

Henry Julier · Post by **Henry Julier** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 3:47 am

ICK isn't a board... it's a state of being!

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:38 pm

On 2002-12-04 11:18, Henry Julier wrote:

Vasocreta- I'm hyped up about my ICK because it's special. Is your board special? Didn't think so.

I am quite intelligent though, thanks for pointing that out.

Henry

You're welcome on the intelligence thing. As for your ICK, well, I know it's special. Kind of like Linus's blanket.
Anyone who talks more ABOUT their board than about riding itself deserves a threat of defeat..even from me!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:37 pm

uh-oh...I see a Henry J vs. Vasocreta thing happening here! Don't make me have to seperate you two.

:razz:

Henry Julier · Post by **Henry Julier** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:18 pm

Lord Chaput-

NEVER!!!! You call yourself a Lord, but any high school student worth his or her salt knows that feudalism sucked. Get someone else to farm your land, like Joe Iacovelli. He's pretty good at manual labor, and you don't have to feed him a lot because he's got plenty of reserves at hand.

FREEEEDOM!
-William Wallace

Vasocreta- I'm hyped up about my ICK because it's special. Is your board special? Didn't think so.

I am quite intelligent though, thanks for pointing that out.

Henry

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:03 pm

I have no authority to talk smack since I am a low life, sorry sight of a slalomer. However, that is slowly (SLOWLY) changing. Maybe it will change more quickly soon enough. Though all the sand and salt on the roads right now make practice impossible.
Anyway, I have a few targets in my sights and I will list them in order.
1) Jim Siener
Great guy. Is a great encouragement. And is better than I am right now. But I have a stronger push start. Now I just need some solid pumping skills, then he's toast.
2)Henry Julier (a.k.a. ICK-boy!)
Love our chats, think he's a great guy, quite intelligent, but WAY too hyped up about his ICK stick and doesn't believe in giving inanimate objects--like skateboards--names. As punishment, I will give him a low-life slalomers licking this up coming season at some point.

2 on the hit list is great, but 3's a charm:

3)End up in the same bracket with TK and at least EARN back my 24 cones. WINNING then back might be shooting too high at this point in time.

By the way, I have thought alot about this and think that folks should bet cones when they race each other. We can call it slalom poker.

Chris Chaput · Post by **Chris Chaput** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:15 am

Hey Joe and Henry and Adam-

Stop making long posts. It tends to clog things up and bury the really good and informative posts such as mine.

Thank you,

Lord Chaput

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:26 am

I want to race Jani.
On a Special Slalom course.
With no timer.
Just for a photo.
In Paris.
So that I can have the Eiffel Tower in the background.
And Jani in the foreground.
Or vice versa.
It would be the most beautiful grudge match...
In my photo album.
It is only in my head now.
In the form of a fantasy.

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 4:43 pm

Mr.Julier,

Post as you want. We are using our full names to sign in, this identifies our name to slalom skateboarding. What could be cooler than using our own names? If you want an aka or a alias or moniker, this is ok here too, you just have to identify your posts by registering your full name. I will hook you up with your fool (all due respect) name.

Mr.Arab posts here under ARAB but I have identified his post with his name. He did not compromise. He was banned from ncdsa and I diligently protested this there. Here, as my mother taught me, "Adam, sometimes it is better to be polite than right." so I went with being polite. ARAB won but ultimately, we all win as he is a talented multi faceted skateboarder. I may not agree with some of his writing, but one thing is for sure, I RESPECT what he has done for skateboarding in other ways as well.

Jani calls it "hard rules" and I am trying to get WesE to identify himself too. It is a personal pursuit for me to do this, to try to improve and to get you guys to help me help us help our sport.

It's a tough thing to do...

Send me a picture of you riding cone so I can hook you up with a little "author" picture. Also tell me what you want to say above the image.

http://www.ncdsa.com is the reason why http://www.slalomskateboarder.com exsists. It's not an "us and them" thing at all. I like that site but I thought with the people I knew and the resources at hand that I could, ahmmm, "we" as a community could do a good job so I took a chance...

It's bad enough that I am banned, having to listen to my rant, don't go about getting yourself banned.

All of us who look at both forms of forums have balance, it is important to use it when having fun writing online.

I enjoyed reading your Coke hyped er, Vanilla Coke hyped up post.

Best Regards to you in this Holiday Season and beyond...

On 2002-12-02 23:31, Henry Julier wrote:
You should watch me too, damnit. :smile:

The following is really random because I am tired and hopped up on Vanilla Coke.

So I've noticed that over here at this forum, people can post and not get jumped on because you are all adults over 30 and I am 18. I like that. We act our age.
I remember when I first started posting at... er... the unspeakable bulletin board that oddly still is my homepage, all the cool people were posting there. But then the cool people left. Now I have found the cool people again.
Another random thing... I think on January first, 2003, I will stop posting as Henry J and start posting as Henry. I think people know who I am and besides I put ICK under my name, and the other Henry doesn't. BTW, Henry is the coolest name ever.
Thirdly, it's time to rib my all time favorite slalomer Joe Iacovelli. Dude, I can say with confidence that you would not have been able to handle the WLAC GS. Yeah yeah you have like 1000000 boards but that just doesn't cut the mustard. No footbraking mid course either... you would have biffed it so hard it would have hurt people in China (however that works.)
Also, ur13 likes green bananas.

Oh and Lauren Gordon, I know you never check this forum because you're riding horses around pool tables and stuff (inside joke) but... 1) where is my t shirt 2) we need to race each other so I can beat you.

As you can see, it's great to have a place where I can rant like this without getting abuse votes. I love all of you and I will be slaloming untill I die. Slalom is probably the best thing that has happened to me... I used to be a big mountain biker but now when I ride I am thinking about slalom... and I'll never look at a road the same way again...

Thank you for letting me join the slalom world.

Henry J
ICk

Henry Julier · Post by **Henry Julier** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 5:31 am

You should watch me too, damnit.

The following is really random because I am tired and hopped up on Vanilla Coke.

So I've noticed that over here at this forum, people can post and not get jumped on because you are all adults over 30 and I am 18. I like that. We act our age.
I remember when I first started posting at... er... the unspeakable bulletin board that oddly still is my homepage, all the cool people were posting there. But then the cool people left. Now I have found the cool people again.
Another random thing... I think on January first, 2003, I will stop posting as Henry J and start posting as Henry. I think people know who I am and besides I put ICK under my name, and the other Henry doesn't. BTW, Henry is the coolest name ever.
Thirdly, it's time to rib my all time favorite slalomer Joe Iacovelli. Dude, I can say with confidence that you would not have been able to handle the WLAC GS. Yeah yeah you have like 1000000 boards but that just doesn't cut the mustard. No footbraking mid course either... you would have biffed it so hard it would have hurt people in China (however that works.)
Also, ur13 likes green bananas.

Oh and Lauren Gordon, I know you never check this forum because you're riding horses around pool tables and stuff (inside joke) but... 1) where is my t shirt 2) we need to race each other so I can beat you.

As you can see, it's great to have a place where I can rant like this without getting abuse votes. I love all of you and I will be slaloming untill I die. Slalom is probably the best thing that has happened to me... I used to be a big mountain biker but now when I ride I am thinking about slalom... and I'll never look at a road the same way again...

Thank you for letting me join the slalom world.

Henry J
ICk

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:41 am

Siale is a machine. He is going to bring a word of hurt down on either the pro or open class next season. He is one to watch!

Terry Kirby · Post by **Terry Kirby** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:16 am

When Psych jobs go bad...
At Avilla Beach Gs this year I went into the round of 8 having to race Siale. Given the course and having seen Siale at La Costa I felt like I needed an edge. I ask JG what do I do. JG says get the sickest start you can and it may rattle him and force him to scrub on the first 3 cones. For the next 5 minutes I'm psycing MYSELF out on the stupid start. "gotta get the hole shot,gotta get the hole shot" We get up there and the beeps start, I pull on 3.75 and SLAM the gate and tip the ramp up. I look up and Siale is down his ramp and into his 2nd turn. Beats me by like 9/10ths. you know the reat of the story. BTW, Siale gained like 25lbs of muscle since La Costa and didnt even tie his shoes when he raced. Beware of him next year if he goes pro.

Henry Hester · Post by **Henry Hester** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 1:53 am

Hey, I had to race that little punk from Turner. What's his name? Dylan. That's it.

I gave him 20 cones, I think. Never came close to catching up to him but I was able to make plenty of noise and scare him a little. Handicapping can be fun but you've really got to intimidate your competitor. They've got to hear you comin' and start to freak out.

One time in a race with Marty Shawb in Catalina, I ran him into the stinger at speed that neither of us could handle. I put on the brakes, dropping my knees on every turn and watched him sail by. He made the first four stinger cones and then completely blew out. How much fun was that!

Chris Chaput · Post by **Chris Chaput** » Sun Dec 01, 2002 5:16 am

TK, That makes sense. Otherwise you are in for a lot of math. The best way for someone to beat you is to agree on the number of cones and then make the starting line about a hundred feet from the first cone.

If you just say "I'll spot you a cone", what does that mean. It probably means that have to figure out the average cone spacing and the time it takes to run one cone. For this you'll need the length of the Whole course (W), the distance between the Starting line and the first cone (S), the the distance between the Finishing line and the last cone (F), the Time it takes the slow guy to run the whole course (T), and the Number of cones (N). You need to adjust the time to reflect how long it takes to cover the distance (D) between the first cone and the last cone. D=W-(S+F). The time for just the cones is T*D/W. You really need the number of gaps between the cones (C) which is equal to the number of cones minus one or C=N-1. Divide the time it takes between the cones by the number of gaps to see what a cone is worth. Let's say that you have a 200' course that includes a 30' start and a 20' finish. It takes 12secs from start to finish and there are 28 cones.

W=200
S=30
F=20
T=12
C=28
N=C-1=27
D=W-(S+F)=150
"Cone time" is T*D/W=12*150/200=9secs
9 seconds to run 27 gaps means that a cone is worth 9sec/27 which is 1/3 of a second.

If you're not going to play "catchup" on the course, don't say "I'll spot you 2 cones", say "I'll spot you 2/3 of a second" instead.

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 10:46 pm

I'll be at WLAC next weekend in case he does...

On 2002-11-30 15:18, ARAB wrote:
Adam N from NCDSA doesnt race!

Not sure if he even skateboards?

Terry Kirby · Post by **Terry Kirby** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 10:38 pm

Chris, when I say I'll spot so and so some cones I mean I don't start untill the other racer is 3 cones into the course or whatever. That makes it fun because you have to hunt the other guy down and he has to not freak out and panic in order to win. These races can be exciting no matter who is racing. I agree on the cones theory, a clean run is nice but winning is nicer. TK

PS. What open racers NEED to go pro next year to make room for new open racers? I know I'm movin up to the big boys.

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 9:18 pm

Adam N from NCDSA doesnt race!

Not sure if he even skateboards?

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 9:04 pm

I want to race Adam N from http://www.ncdsa.com

Chris Chaput · Post by **Chris Chaput** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 8:19 pm

I see great value in raw times. There have been plenty of times when I hit "dumb cones" that didn't help me to go any faster than if I had actually gone around them cleanly. If, for example I hit 3 dumb cones at .2 seconds on a single lane course, my time is skewed by over half a second. I am very interested in my raw time compared to other's raw times because the question that I am asking myself is who would win if everyone is clean. If the only way that I can win is when others plow cones and I'm clean, that means that I am slow. If I can plow cones while others are clean and still win, that means that I am fast.

I have to assume that everyone is capable of making a clean run and gauge my speed and aggressiveness accordingly. I only care about raw times unless it's immediately after a heat against an opponent in a dual. Then I care about who hit what and how many.

I do not believe that slalom is the manly art of cone avoidance. I think that slalom is a race and racing is about speed. Cones are pesky course markers and hitting one can be a penalty. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Sooner or later, we all hit cones. Embrace the hitting of cones. It's never going to go away. Don't try to solve it. It's not a problem. The only problem is in counting and resetting them efficiently. Criddling is a beautiful thing to see done well. Brains can and do count for something in racing. More strategy and less purity means more victories. If having the respect of the purists is more important than winning for you, than you are a pure loser, through and through.

Speed is everything. Precision is a bonus. I don't remember seeing any trophies on anyone's shelf for being the cleanest. If you are fast, you only have to be "precise enough". If you are slow, you have to count on the misfortunes of others to win.

Current Fear List:

Dunn, Gilmour, Cross, Ransom, Chicken. Everyone else is within reach.

Terry Kirby · Post by **Terry Kirby** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 6:31 pm

Joe, I spot you 6 cones on a long course (40 cones) 3 cones on a short course (25 cones) and we go. I would put sandy up against you but she is pregnant and being waxed by a pregnany woman may push you over the edge. The wager is a case of your beer of choice. (yes I realize I still owe you 35.00) 25 foot push start. best of 3. We will do this at the next race we both attend. I will leave nick out of this for now. Get practicing, Terry
BTW this brings up a point made by HH. Hadicapping. How many cones do I get if I race Gilmour? I think I can beat him if he gives me one cone on a short course.

Kevin M. Gamble · Post by **Kevin M. Gamble** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:04 am

I've noticed that the keyboard racing seems to increase about this time every year. A seasonal trend that I've come to expect, but not enjoy. Should be about time for another criddling and/or cone dimension debate.

And while we're at it....... What's the deal with"raw times"? I just don't get it.

If a racer hits 6 cones, but has a great raw time, does the raw time have any actual value? Seems to me, the racer took a faster line thru the course, the evidence of which are the hit cones. So, of course his/her "raw time" is better than if he/she ran the course clean.

Isn't that one of the points of cone penalties; to penalize the racer for "cutting corners"? Anyone want to set me straight?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kevin M. Gamble on 2002-11-30 09:26 ]</font>

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 3:54 am

Claude, that really depends on whether you count the raw speed or the corrected speed.

After all, anyone can rip it, but ripping it precisely is what counts.

Claude Regnier · Post by **Claude Regnier** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 3:43 am

Yes, Wesley but are they fast ??????

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 2:20 am

Ok, TK, I'll throw a little gas on the fire. A few weeks ago Joe Iacovelli made an observation on "some other skateboard slalom/event forum" that is worth repeating here. To me it was so enlightening that ever since I have found myself categorizing people who participate in these slalom skateboard forums:

"Keyboard racers."

How profound can you get? This is neither the time nor the place to name names, but obviously they are all around. I think it's important that now and in the future everything is done to stamp out this scourge that infects our little sport.

• Yes, everyone is entitled an opinion
• Yes, everyone has the right to express their opinion.
• No, there is no obligation to tolerate a worthless opinion
• Yes, it is an evangelical duty to dissuade, stamp out and remove from our comfortable midst those who's opinions have no weight, no value and certainly no meaningful use to anyone who slalom races.

Beware the keyboard racers. They are a blight and and a boil on the body of skateboard slalom. Shout them down, string them up and if all else fails, just take a big damned stick and beat the hell out of 'em!

Thanks, Joe. Although you may have thought at the time it was just an off-the-cuff remark, in retrospect you illuminated a dark, dank stain that needs to be cleansed.

Terry Kirby · Post by **Terry Kirby** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:46 pm

Got some smack to talk, do it here.
Need to confess a slalom sin, do it here.
Wanna bet, do it here.
This thread is where it gets down and dirty.

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