[2006] Region East Atlantic: Europe

[Pat Chewning]

I agree (with someone) that the process does seem a bit messed up. Somewhat similar to what happened in USA East Coast:

1) A race was cancelled, someone made a post about another race obtaining the cancelled race status (I believe within the deadline).
2) No decision/action from the deciding body by the deadline.
3) Further requests, demands, universal agreement among the region that the proposed race SHOULD get the status from the cancelled race.
4) Answer is "NO, too late, past deadline".

Result: 2005 East Coast lost a status and never recovered.

I really think the process could be improved like this:
1) MAJOR status races must have a formal written proposal within some (very long) deadline, with a decision made by some (long) leadtime. Very similar to to the way it is done now, but a set date for yearly proposals due and a set date for yearly decisions. (e.g. Proposals written and submitted by 30 January. Decision by 30 February. Earliest MAJOR June 15)

2) MAIN status races must have a formal written proposal with some (long) deadline, with a decision made by some (medium) leadtime. Similar story (set calendar deadline for proposal and decision). (e.g. Proposals by 30 February Decision by 30 March. Earliest race by 30APRIL)

3) PRIME status races must have an informal posted proposal within 2 months of the race. If the race meets some minimum standard (TBD), then it is PRIME. There can be as many PRIME races as there are months in the year. PRIME statuses can be decided up to 4 weeks before the race (the deadline for a decision). Notice that there can be as many as one PRIME race per month (as long as it meets the minimum standard).

4) BASIC status races can be anounced 1 week in advance. They automatically receive BASIC status.

We should put our big selection/decision efforts into the MAIN and MAJOR races, and streamline the decision process and allow more PRIME races. I think that would solve a lot of problems.

That doesn't solve the immediate problem (unless Corky acts quickly and allows more PRIME races....), but it might help out for next year.

--Pat

[Donald Campbell]

The World Ranking comes from Corky, not from the ISSA Forum members who take over the Forum. The Ranking has it's own rules, which are listed on the slalomranking website.

/J-Rad

You are always trying to bend the things to fit in your scheme, aint that so, jadranko?
at this young age you show the same tendencies, the old German organization from the seventies and eighties had. This organization passed away sooner or later, since all the skaters didn't like the way it has been run.

Why is it that you are trying to undermine our race,each and every way possible here on the net?
Which benefit does this bring to you?
Maybe you take your time and quote me again, after you have done so, a clear answer is due.

[Steve Hinzen]

If you look at the rules of the slalomranking.com website than it's very clear that the Great Western race will not get a prime.

Bullshit! Jadranko, you're totally missinterpretating this thing. As you can read above I have asked for a decision about the status long before the deadline for the GWRS. If the master of the ranking or anybody else does not answer within time, why should this be the race organizer's problem?

Yes, Jadranko, it's not about voting,
it's about Corky to take a stand now.

Now, stop boring me, Jadranko!

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Topic world ranking / region east Atlantic, January 10th, 2006, Hans Koraeus wrote:
Quote:
There are also still 2 more Prime statuses that have not been discussed much. Don seems to have no problem taking care of them but I know Stockholm is interested in one of those Primes as well. And I still hope England could surprise us with something. Prime need to be decided 2 months ahead so for an early season opener the earliest date possible is know March 10. Time is running away quickly...

Topic world ranking / region east atlantic, January 10th, 2006, Steve Hinzen wrote:
Quote:
If no one else enters into competition for primes the great Western Series should get prime status. We need to know this until the 2nd of february. This is exactly 2 month ahead of the first of the two races.

Topic world ranking / region east atlantic, January 24th, 2006, Jadranko Radovanovic wrote:
Corky, we want to candidate with our Race in Zurich (end of September) for a prime status.

No, discussions until February 13th.

are those the Facts or not ?

/J-Rad

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Corky wrote on October 10. that the time is out and Stockholm is setted.

It was exactly 2 months before the competition and the situation was 1 race for two open primes.

Now we had from the 24. of january 3 candidates for 2 open primes.

If you look at the rules of the slalomranking.com website than it's very clear that the Great Western race will not get a prime.

For the voting. The organisation isn't running already. The World Ranking comes from corky, not from the issa Forum members who take over the Forum. The Ranking has it's owen rules, which are listed on the slalomranking website.

/J-Rad

[Chris Eggers]

I agree, this is a classic thing that has to be decided by an official body.

Let´s vote, Corky, open up the vote post..........I suggest...........

[Donald Campbell]

let's make this easy and fast to overlook for each and everybody
issa-voters will give their voices for the race.
then we are playing by any given rule and this whole deal is official.
corky has to accept the decision then.
here's my take on the situation:
i can easily get 19 votes for germany,who is against that,who also has the power to vote?


besides that,absolutely correct observation of facts,steve!

[Steve Hinzen]

Topic world ranking / region east Atlantic, Sept 08, 2005, Hans Koraeus wrote:

But even though right now the only proposal is from Klang and Marcus there is a need for more information about the event to be able to adorse such a status or not.

Topic world ranking / region east Atlantic, Oct 10, 2005, Hans Koraeus wrote:

Ok, the time is running out. No other candidate than Stockholm for the two Prime statuses that Europe has left. And no protests either. So then it's settled. Stockholm get Prime status. There is still one left but it looks like Stockholm will be the last race of the year with a respectable status. A last chance for you who have not competed enough this year.

... in between these posts there was no further discussion, no further information about the race...

Don't get me wrong, Corky.
I have no problem with your last year's decision about Stockholm (at least another prime was safed for european racers) as long as you treat every race organizer and respect their demands in the same way.

[Etienne de Bary]

on a side note:
zürich and grüningen are very close -20-30kms?
isn't it unfair to have 2 prime races in the same city/suburb spread during a season?

if you count the share of German-Swiss girls in the ranking, it's a bit like these suburbs cover half the planet...

(on the other hand Steve's argument seems to make sense to me as far as i do understand... doesn't it sound like this status thing has actually been discussed and approved in time, though in a somewhat implicit manner ?)

[Peter Klang]

Get real guy’s, why all the hostility? Stockholm did get it’s status fair and square, if anyone had problem with that, talk to Freud. Stockholm don’t care about status 2006, if we get bellow basic in the ISSA ranking who cares. We will do it cuz we love it. We just had a race this last weekend, fun formate with Macster as the winner, all good all fun. To mess with the lot of you here is the status for the 2006 European races.

Major
Paris
Riga
Brixlegg

Main
Antibes
Hannover
Gruningen
London

Prime
All others

Kiss me first
PK

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

isn't it unfair to have 2 prime races in the same city/suburb spread during a season?

Is it fair to have two mains in the same country and there aren't already information about both events ?

There are many unfair things here, but we have to live with it...

Competition in Zurich:
Look at the starterlist from last year, it will have for shure more the next year. We plan to have the best Tight-Slalom rider in Zurich next year and are looking with the organiseres (city of Zurich) of the car free day to be the highlight of the whole event. That means more coverages in magazins/newspapers/tv than you can dream...

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

24. of january

Corky, we want to candidate with our Race in Zurich (end of September) for a prime status.

3 races for 2 statuses.
We know the race in Stockholm and it's starterfield, we know it region (north)
We know the race in Zurich and it's starterfield, we know it region (middle)

If we look to the region, than it's between Cologne and Zurich.

We know the two months rule.
2nd of February was the deadline. It wasn't promote (or did i missed the information somewhere) and it wasn't decided here.

That are the rules...

[Donald Campbell]

on a side note:
zürich and grüningen are very close -20-30kms?
isn't it unfair to have 2 prime races in the same city/suburb spread during a season?

you could go and argue that hannover and düsseldorf are in the same country.
but we do have aprrox.350 kms between the 2 venues.

so there's a big difference between those two major cities and your situation.
you got your share for this year,that's why i would definitely vote againsta second prime for the same area.

since my race will be the season opener for germany,i can plan with a healthy group of entrants.
my race will have racers from france,switzerland,england as guests,that should be enough for getting a prime status,don't you think?

[Donald Campbell]

"we want a prime for zürich"

that's why you are involved,thanks for sharing.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

This Forum is about the statuses.

We want a prime too for our race in Zurich. So every organizer is here at the right place.

You know how does it work here.
1 person = 1 voice

concentrate on your events and keep out of this discussion.

our event's are more or less ready to run...
your regi isn't already on the net. I would change the text which was wrote on Feb. 13

[Steve Hinzen]

Topic Europe / European races, Oct 27th, 2005, Donald Campbell wrote:

as there are two open prime slots for germany we would like to announce 2 races for the next year one slated for april2nd in cologne and one for october 8th in düsseldorf as the "great western race series".
if i don't see anybody else stepping up for a race we will take the 2 primes for germany.
besides that we DO have sponsors for our races,namely US.
please feel free to correct me if there are any mistakes

Topic world ranking / region east Atlantic, January 10th, 2006, Hans Koraeus wrote:

There are also still 2 more Prime statuses that have not been discussed much. Don seems to have no problem taking care of them but I know Stockholm is interested in one of those Primes as well. And I still hope England could surprise us with something. Prime need to be decided 2 months ahead so for an early season opener the earliest date possible is know March 10. Time is running away quickly...

Topic world ranking / region east atlantic, January 10th, 2006, Steve Hinzen wrote:

If no one else enters into competition for primes the great Western Series should get prime status. We need to know this until the 2nd of february. This is exactly 2 month ahead of the first of the two races.

Corky,

We all know you are doing great job with Your World Ranking System.
But from my point of view you are doing a formal mistake by denying a prime status fort the Great Western Race Series. You explain there has to be a discussion about the status for every competition. You are not talking about the character of this discussion needed to lead to a proper decision.
Remember, Corky, that there was an open proposition from the organizers of the GWRS.
And: there was nobody opposing and nobody talking against the organizer’s demand.

No opposition means agreement.
It’s as simple as that.

I guess the status for last year’s Stockholm race was decided under the same format, wasn’t it?

[Donald Campbell]

thanks for sharing your thoughts,jadr.

i don't need your oppinion here,you'rejust trying to make me look like a fool,that's it.
if you don't plan to attend the race,keep your smart comments for yourself.
as we see it, there are a few europeans coming,even from switzerland.

do i have to give you a detailed names-list to get your approval?

concentrate on your events and keep out of this discussion.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

getting a prime for the great western was a fact for all of us,there didn't seem to be the need for discussion.

who is all ? there were 3 races for two left prime statuses...

if it's not you to decide,but the racers,then do yourself a favor and change it to a prime.

racers mean the whole region.
the whole region is Europe.

[Donald Campbell]

corky

i'm not gonna comment on your decision,maybe i will do my next race in a garage though to get a prime?
getting a prime for the great western was a fact for all of us,there didn't seem to be the need for discussion.

if it's not you to decide,but the racers,then do yourself a favor and change it to a prime.
i don't want to recruit all the racers to this forum to start a discussion.

it's that easy,why make things complicated?

[Hans Koraeus]

as an organizer of a slalom race i can´t understand that you dindn´t decide about donalds request for a prime status.

the race is in less than three months. if you decide that donald didn´t get a prime, than say it.
if he get the status, let him know. it´s important to know that. i think he can´t wait for that answer. if i ask next year fora main status, i need the answer soon. not a few weeks before.

it´s an argument for sponsors. it´s important to know.
so make your decision.

now.

The European racers decide not me. When the time limit is out the status is gone. It should be decided before and it is much up to the organizer to talk for it and for racers to support it.

The latest you will know if you get a Main status is 3 months before the event. This is a minimum limit. Depending on how good you push for getting a status it can be long before that. For example see the current 2006 table above with Prime/Main/Major status this year for Paris, Hannover, Grüningen, Riga, Brixlegg and Antibes. Only 2 Primes left.

Time limit for getting a Prime status ran out on "Great Western Race Series #1" February 2. So in a sense it has been decided since a long time ago that it will not get Prime status.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

It depends where you host your race. see pics from over 80 cones

[Donald Campbell]

maybe ddorf is not so important to get a prime?
we easily have more spectators than grüni-see g.o.g. pics.

maybe i used the wrong hairspray?
maybe corky just forgot it?

who knows?

thanx for the support,dete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

So, every one was fighting for a good status.

But who is working on somthing ?

May PARIS no information, no website (presentation), no registration

June Hannover World Cup, information from last year, registration from last year

July Brixlegg no definitive information, website under construction (presentation), no registration

July RIGA no definitive information, website isn't updated, no registration

September ANTIBES no information, no website, no registration


The question is:

What is professional and what isn't ?
Does it metter if you have your race in the countryside or in a city ?
What do you understand under promoting an event ?

some questions, some discussions, some blablabla

read the whole topic again.....

This is my personal summary what we talked about in the past 3-4 months.

This (above) is the Fact why we need an organisation body, guidlines, rules and so on


/J-Rad

some talk, some work, some do both

[Detlef Rehbock]

hi corky,

as an organizer of a slalom race i can´t understand that you dindn´t decide about donalds request for a prime status.

the race is in less than three months. if you decide that donald didn´t get a prime, than say it.
if he get the status, let him know. it´s important to know that. i think he can´t wait for that answer. if i ask next year fora main status, i need the answer soon. not a few weeks before.

it´s an argument for sponsors. it´s important to know.
so make your decision.

now.

[Hans Koraeus]

Jadranko, I have updated you as a candidate for one of the 2 Primes remaining.

Looking at the event and the field of last years 80-cone race it sure is a good candidate for a Prime status.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Sure there are some less good things that Jadranko and others may have pointed out but so there will always be. Most important is that we take them into account. And that we have. So for example even if I agree that France having two Main statuses is not ideal there are other reasons weighing it up this time.

If there is take somthing into account, some things had changed. But anyway....


Corky, we want to candidate with our Race in Zurich (end of September) for a prime status.


/J-Rad

[Hans Koraeus]

Current proposal...

Major status subjects (1)
[Major] Brixlegg, AUT | World Championships of Slalom Skateboarding 2006 | July 21- 23

Main status subjects (3)
[Main] Paris, FRA | Paris Slalom World Cup | May 25-28
[Main] Riga, LAT | European Championships of Slalom Skateboarding 2006 | July 1-2
[Main] Antibes, FRA | World Cup - Antibes | Sep 31- Oct 1

Prime status subjects (4)
[Prime] Grüningen/Hinwil, SUI | Slalom Skateboard World Cup Grüningen/Hinwil | June 9 - 11
[Prime] Hannover, GER | Hannover World Cup | June 2-4
[Prime]
[Prime]
Cologne, GER | Great Western Race Series #1 | April 2
Stockholm, SWE | | August?
Zürich, SUI | Swiss Slalom Series #4 Final | September 24

[Hans Koraeus]

No more info has come out to change the current proposals. I think the current status proposals looks more and more decided for 2006.

Sure there are some less good things that Jadranko and others may have pointed out but so there will always be. Most important is that we take them into account. And that we have. So for example even if I agree that France having two Main statuses is not ideal there are other reasons weighing it up this time.

There are still two more Prime statuses free. Don has shown interest in one for the April 2 race in Cologne. There are already 2 Primes in June. I think it would be nice to have some for the later season as well. Cologne is urgent do discuss now. If we want to save both statuses for August and later then we can wait and see what events will come up during the middle and end of the season.

[Etienne de Bary]

OK

[Ramón Königshausen]

So then one option will be like "I don't care". Ergo: you'll take your vote on that.

rmn

[Etienne de Bary]

everybody should have to take a vote

What if i have no opinion ?

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

who's gonna pay for that?

Here in Switzerland is easy to build an organisation. That's way the most international organisation are founded here.

The costs depends on what you want to do.

It's only possible with a lot of work which wouldn't be paid for.


/J-Rad

[Donald Campbell]

each organization needs money to act.
there are always certain costs involved when you run such a body.


who's gonna pay for that?

thats the big question.

on a side note: i really enjoy going to slalom contests, since the whole structure of the contests is so virgin and somehow pure.
absolutely different than other contests.

just to let you know.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

once there is enough money in the pot,the game will be a different one.

I belive that will be as you said.

But the money isn't here at the moment.
No one of us knows when this will come or if it will come.

It works in the pool street thing because there are so many people who do this and who buy the Stuff of this companys. That's way the Skate Companys invest in this. This contests are their business.

We have other premises, that's the fact because i think it isn't that way.

Other organisation like the FIS has their body and they say to the sponsors what the way is not the sponsors to the organisation.

The companys will give the money as long as they have profit. We saw it in Stockholm. Marcus wrote, that without the Pool race maybe they won't get the money of WESC.

An Organisation on the other site can control and look that they can make intersting sponsorchips for the companies.

/J-Rad

[Donald Campbell]

reflecting back on the history of contests in street or pool,we all can see a simple fact:
when these things get bigger and more attractive,bigger companies will chime in and as a side-effect,they will decide what's happening or what not.
if you-as an organizer-think differently about their demands,chances are high that all the money that makes the event possible will be withdrawn.

i do have the freedom of choice-this time.

brixlegg will happen as i want it to happen.the sponsors know what i will do and its cool with them.


the problem is see with you,jadranko,ramon also(only partly),is,that you never had the chance to work with skate-related companies who flowed the dough for a contest.
this is a whole different deal.

we can decide what we want,when this thing gets bigger,money and companies will decide what happens and what not.

of course you can complain now and say"hey,i will not go there" but trust me-others will.

once there is enough money in the pot,the game will be a different one.

i don't want to be your big poppa to give you advices,but i can share my knowledge with you,ok?

[Ramón Königshausen]

let's blablablah too
Ramon and Jadranko, about amateurs prizes: entry fees are not (should not) be linked to the fact that there's a lot of prizes to win. The organizers don't have to buy stuff... they have to find sponsors that give them!
Even if we don't race for that, it's a bit deceiving to see quite big races with nearly nothing to win!

I'm not saying that the entry fees would be used for buying prizes. But Whatever.

ramon

look at todays big constests street pool whatever

that's the future

even if some people don't like it

Why shall we have to go the same way? - Because it seems to be sucsessful - I see....hum

Y'all should run a poll.

That makes everything better.

The problem with polls on the forum is that everybody can, anonymously take a vote (okay democracy, yes, but then everybody should have to take a vote).


It's up to...us.

rmn

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

blablablablah is the way of democracy.

You are now a part of it.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Do you really select if someone is Pro if he can pay the entryfee of 100 Eur.?

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

your thoughts so far are noble,jadranko,but they won't prevail in the real world for a longer time period.
denying that given fact would be absolutely stupid.

of corse it will. because we will measure, we will discuss, we will decide and there will be changes all the time to have it every time adapted for our requirements.


Did the street pool have an organisation which makes guidlines and rules or is this stuff only sponsored by a skate company which makes the tour ?

An Organisation which is construed on our present requirements don't exclude the way to have a sponsor who pay for a tour.

I think to go some steps forward is to create an Organisation which makes the guidlines and rules.

What does the other race organizers think ?

What does the riders think ?


J-Rad

[Vincent Berruchon]

let's blablablah too
Ramon and Jadranko, about amateurs prizes: entry fees are not (should not) be linked to the fact that there's a lot of prizes to win. The organizers don't have to buy stuff... they have to find sponsors that give them!
Even if we don't race for that, it's a bit deceiving to see quite big races with nearly nothing to win!

For the Pro we can understand that it's part of the game to pay more because a part goes to prize money.
This year in Paris there will be more money to win. The biggest part of the pro fees still go to prize money but the rest won't come from racers fees.
Yes Pro entry fees are not cheap, but it's a way to select who is really pro and who isn't (so for 3 days in Paris, only 25€ wasn't used for prize money and it included the foods!! A bargain!)

[Donald Campbell]

ramon

look at todays big constests street pool whatever

that's the future

even if some people don't like it

[Wesley Tucker]

Y'all should run a poll.

That makes everything better.

[Ramón Königshausen]

fact is,that,if you hold a contest with nothing to win(MONEY),nobody will feel the need to come.

Ehm...sorry Donald but that's only half the truth. If you are talking about bigger contests, further away I agree. It's nice when you can get back some money you spent on travelling by prize money but does that fit to them who don't even expect to get prize money? All those Amateurs who will, once again, take back home some skateboard stuff?
If we look at Antibes for example: 12 of 36 riders (that makes a third!) from Switzerland went there - most of them Amateurs - just because they either had been there the year before and enjoyed it so much that it was out of discussion not to go or they had heard from those that it would be fun. Most of them knew that there wouldn't be no prize money and didn't expect to get some either.
Since quite all of us have to pay for the journeys and entry fees themselves, why should we keep the entry fees so high? Well ok, leave it as it is, I won't care because I don't really got a problem with getting back my entry fee...
But think about the others: Shall I have to pay for fun, for a nice weekend with friends? Every contest like a holiday?

What should a skater's moral be like?


May the question and answer round continue...


rmn

[Donald Campbell]

let's put this theoretical stuff to another level:
i'm talking about skateboard contests in general.

i am working as a professional skateboard manufacturer/supplier for a long time now.

fact is,that,if you hold a contest with nothing to win(MONEY),nobody will feel the need to come.

now that's a look at the real life.

what makes you think that people who are on a slalom-board are different from the rest of the world.
even though this section of skateboarding in general is still in its infant shoes,the time and the day will come that professional skaters want to see something for their efforts.

your thoughts so far are noble,jadranko,but they won't prevail in the real world for a longer time period.
denying that given fact would be absolutely stupid.

i am also talking about the quality of a race track.
i made sure that i get one of the most interesting tracks i've seen so far.
me and chris organizing the event speaks for itself regarding quality and accuracy.

there you go

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

There are a lot of things what the rider get back from you. but count only the things what every rider get back.

The Slalom race should every time be the main focus.

I think there should be options in the packeges.

package 1
- only the entry fee. (the fee is setted by ISSA)
package 2
- with your free drinks / free food /t-shirt (package two) (the Fee is setted by race organizer)

Every location has his differents.
Every of us has his requirements. I was at 8 different locations in US and EU. And every location has his owen attractions. Every location has his owen storys. If Stockholm in the night club and golfing in the hotel or in West Verginia in the Pub with very diffrent people. Every of this experiences are at the same level. They are diffrent and this is what it makes very interesting to travel to. I can messure things which are similar, but i can't messure things which aren't similar. That's why i can't say which the best location was. But i can say which the best race was in organising and running the event.

finally i'm asking myself why others are not able to give more back to the riders?
let's have peter,corky,and marcus stand as an exception to that question.
detlef surprised us last year with his goodie bag too-and he also had a free t-shirt.

now there is one more criteria here.
Corky: spread the Statuses out over the season.
J-Rad: look that as many as possible europeans can attend the big races.
Don: give more back to the rider's.

the answer is:
every of the race organiser's has his owen priorities.

as example: for us it wasn't important to have big prices and stuff and so on. I think it was going under because we are focused on more important things from our view. At the other side we had the lowest entry fee, only 20 Euros.

When i have to mark this criteria in a scala from 1-10. I will give us the lowest a 1.

When you reflected your competition from year to year, you will get beter and beter.
It's a simple thing, but we did it. And we will do it again. That's the way of growing.

I think in our situation now, it's not important where you held a race. The important thing is the quality of your race. And there is no competition in this sport which do a perfect race. There will be every time things to do it in a beter way.

But to know what you can do beter and what the criteria are, you need a body/organisation which give you the criterias.

/J-Rad

[Donald Campbell]

one thing i would like to add to your comment about high entry fees.
my point of view:
so 100 has been paid by a pro to enter my race f.e.
what does he get for it?
1 t-shirt of high quality which normally retails for 20,a bag filled with goodies,free drinks,free food,the chance to take a nab at the prize-money involved or all the other good stuff to be won.
non-monetary things involved are:one of the most impressive race tracks,a big skatepark with a big race and lots of side-events.
so,in the end,100 is not that much for getting so much back.


finally i'm asking myself why others are not able to give more back to the riders?
let's have peter,corky,and marcus stand as an exception to that question.
detlef surprised us last year with his goodie bag too-and he also had a free t-shirt.

that's a good and valid question.
feel free to comment on that one

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

I think the way how it's discussed now it's okay.

The Americans discuss their Status for themself and the Europeans the same.

What isn't okay, is that we have no guidlines how it should be done.

Perhaps Corky for you is more important to spread the Statuses over the season. For me the most important criteria is to allow as many as possible Europeans to attend a high status race. And if we have two races in france than we have missed something in the decision.

Antibes had the Main Status last year. And with the number of 36 rider's is the most important criteria for me not fulfilled. The same for Paris. Count the Americans away from the startinglist than you have the European riders. Paris has more than Antibes, but they haven't as many as Grueningen. I think the most important thing in setting the statuses is to look that as many as possible people in our region (Europe) can compete in high status competitions.

I think it will be important to get all criterias together and than give them a weighting.
In this way we will have the interessets of us all in the criterias. We have now enough time to make this ready for the 2007 season.

I know some are speaking about money. But at this point where we are now is no money in the sport. We have to look that we can grow slowly. That we can do when we make some standards/guidlines and when we make some target's which are measurable. I know Brixlegg offer's 10'000 Euro's but no other event can do the same. The entry fee of 100 Euro or 110 Euro it's too much. We have to set there a standard as well. There are many Pro's out there which have a small chance to rank high in the ranking to win some cash. That means they have every time only to pay that a few of them can win a small summ.

An Idea is to have a standard entry fee which is setted for the higher Statuses (Main / Major). A 10 or 20 percent from this money can go to the ISSA. From all this money the ISSA decide what the price money for which Status can be. That means all the higher Statuses (Main/Major) will have a guaranteed sum of price money. Than it's up to the organiser's if they want to make the price money higher. The information about the races can be listed on the ISSA website as well. Every contest will have some space to publish their information and all will be at the same adress under the name of ISSA. All the administration for registration can be done by ISSA. The payment of the entry fees as well. The organisers of the races will every time informed be over the internet who is registered and who has paid. There can be a standard how and when the money will be transferred to them.

In this way we will have a standard in event information (Website)/registration/ entryfees/ Status decision/ price money for all races, and a body/organisation which is behind it.

This is what i see in our situation where we are now. And in this way we can grow together to a good level. But what happens in the diffrent countries itself it's up to the people who live there.

This can be a start for the ISSA for the next two year's. When this things are done, we can look what we can do better and which things we can develop.

The question is, are the race organisers interested to have an organisation which define a standard which must be strictly adhered to?

/J-Rad

[Hans Koraeus]

So Hannover and Grüningen, both capable of holding Main status, in this years scenario falls down on Prime statuses.

Jadranko and others, Grüningen and Hannover are both cabable of holding a Main status. But to keep a world balance between Europe And America the World ranking will have to filter out a couple of those events. The Americans have the same problems as we. In the end we have to share them between us. Don't forget this is a World Ranking issue. Not a European issue. This is forgotten over and over again. And will be again two posts down. But still I will try to remind you of this now and then.

Again what some of you seems to be missing is a European Cup but that is a whole other ball game. This is to handle the few World Ranking statuses that are given to the European region from the total amount of statuses given away to regions around the world.

[alavoine jean paul]

I promise I have nothing to do with Bulla!

I think Jadranko has a point here :

If we want to take democratic decisions we need to have a body of some kind, in real life I mean and not only on the net. After all maybe Don was right when he got mad about the skaters' conference that should have been held in Stockholm and wasn't.

But I also have to admit that the season's planning is getting better organized, and this we owe the web and its wizzards.

If I can be of any help, I've got some spare-time at the moment.

Your slalom mate, Popol, getting better every day...

P.S.: Even if Gruningen has a lower status this year, we all know it's a GREAT event.

[Chris Hart]

Has anybody realised, Airflow have a swiss rider ranking since more than 6 years.
Here is the link: http://airflow-skateboards.com/asphalt/ ... listea.php
chris