ISSA World Record Rules -- Proposal and Discussion

[Steve Hinzen]

Now tell me how you can go goal-oriented forward ?
It's not possible, because the goals are nowhere written down.

Every one who organise somthing goes from the raw to the detail. First comes the Vision of the ISSA than the Vision of the System WR and than the rules. Every where where the rules don't fit with the Vision, they are not needed.

It is absolutely true what Jadranko has written here. Each member of the ISSA-board should take this issue very serious.

Otherwise the ISSA will...

1. ...be turning in circles for years
or
2. ...get overrun by other's (stronger) interests
or
3. ...simply die.

Steve.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

As a board member and long-time member of the ISSA I have to disagree. The ISSA has a clearer vision now of its goals and agenda than ever before.

Wes,

where is this agenda ?

1. Providing CONSISTENCY to worldwide slalom competition
2. Providing COMMUNICATION CHANNELS for every slalom skater (this website.)

The competitions in slalom wasn't very different from location to location in the years before the ISSA.

Communication inside the scene is just a small thing. Communication outside the scene is a big thing and it brings the sport forward.

There was a chance to communicate outside with the WR, but with this rules we will do the WR somwhere in the nowhere.

Does it needs 7 Board Members to running something which is implemented for years?
The same with the website. We discussed if it should be static or dynamic, but didn't discussed what should be the content. The same with the World Ranking, we make it complex to this level where no one understands it anymore, although it would be much easier to keep it simple.
There were set some criterias for the statuses, but no weighting what it means there are criterias, but interpret it in the way you want.

Now tell me how you can go goal-oriented forward ?

It's not possible, because the goals are nowhere written down.

Spike,
what I wrote before it's not about big guys or small guys. It's about the position of the WR in the Slalom scene. I wrote it once time before, that it's not possible to vote on some points in the rules without changing the effect of the whole. There are interactions between the detailed points in the rules. Every one who organise somthing goes from the raw to the detail. First comes the Vision of the ISSA than the Vision of the System WR and than the rules. Every where where the rules don't fit with the Vision, they are not needed.

That was the point yesterday, that is the point today and it will be the point of the dead of the ISSA tomorrow.


/J-Rad

[Wesley Tucker]

So far nobody of the ISSA seems to understand this.
Year after year ISSA-members get lost and stuck in discussing rules in detail on this forum because there is no primal idea where the ISSA wants to go.
I am sorry but as long as this idea hasn't been developped I personally feel that any engament in these discussions is a waste of time.
But some guys on this forum seem to welcome these endless discussions as their perfect leisure time activity....

keep playing. Steve.

Steven,

As a board member and long-time member of the ISSA I have to disagree. The ISSA has a clearer vision now of its goals and agenda than ever before.

The ISSA is working (and succeeding) in doing two things:

1. Providing CONSISTENCY to worldwide slalom competition
2. Providing COMMUNICATION CHANNELS for every slalom skater (this website.)

Yes, we'd all like to see hundreds of races around the world with millions of dollars in prizes but that's something that will take a LOT of time and effort. Right now the ISSA is more concerned with ensuring that every race and every skater will enjoy a competitive, consistent, challenging and rewarding experience whenever the commitment is made to spend a good deal of time and money.

I know these two goals seem simple enough and maybe even small in comparison to what other sport sanctioning bodies accomplish. But I do believe it is better to do something small VERY WELL than it is to try and attempt a lot of big things and fail miserably.

Yes, the ISSA has been involved in its fair share of controversey (6-wheeled skateboards, race sanctions for different events, the World Ranking, the rules process, etc.). There is no guarantee, however, that everyone will be happy all the time. All the ISSA can do is work to ensure its decisions, policies and agenda are as consistent and forthright as possible for the betterment of slalom skateboard racing. My assessment is that goal is being achieved by virtue of the fact that racing today is better than it was seven seven years ago. With more work and more dediciation it will be better in seven years than it is now.

[Richy Carrasco]

The idea of this event is to give all racers a shot at attempting WR for the desired courses without haveing to travel around the world. Who knows maybe some guy from the outback will crawl out dust off his grentec (Jim Korten)and set a new record! There has to be some perameters for rules or people could abuse them. As far as ramps, I say sure! Luca was on one when he set the original record . I think tow in is not fair, because the rider conserves energy when being towed compared to haveing to drop in and pump the ramp! We are going to do push. This will be interesting to see the times role in from all over.

[Steve Hinzen]

Jadranko:

When the ISSA plans to set rules as first step say what the goals are of those rules. If the rules has no goals than they are not needed, very easy !

Jadranko, You're so damn right about this! A year before I adressed this idea to the ISSA:

Get a vision and the rules will follow!

So far nobody of the ISSA seems to understand this.
Year after year ISSA-members get lost and stuck in discussing rules in detail on this forum because there is no primal idea where the ISSA wants to go.
I am sorry but as long as this idea hasn't been developped I personally feel that any engament in these discussions is a waste of time.
But some guys on this forum seem to welcome these endless discussions as their perfect leisure time activity....

keep playing. Steve.

[Sj Kalliokoski]

Or install reflector to side of cone perhaps.

[Neil Orta]

Like I said, obvious-duh!LOL Thanks Pat

[Pat Chewning]

I guess I am overlooking what is probably the obvious but how would one set a course with infrared beams with start and finish at the center of the cones without the cones getting in the way of the timing or timing getting in the way of the cones?

I would place the infrared on a tripod, box, or platform set about 3 inches (75mm) above the height of the cone. The beam goes above the height of the cone.

Alternatively, you could punch a hole through the first and last cones to let the beam of light through.

[Spike Taylor]

You can tell me to shut up, but I have an opinion of some of the stuff you wrote mate,

What is more important for a World Record ?

- to show slalom with the best racers to the public
or
- to have one more event for big guy's where they can play in a secret place with them self.

I don't want to attac anyone here, but to see a big guy in a WR attempt is just a big joke for me.
/J-Rad

From the few sessions I've seen and some of the vids, you're sayin that dudes like Mig from Canada and Michael Stride from here, shouldn't be 'allowed' to set a record because they are big guys? Nice one, you have just alienated half the slalom world. OK, just us young fit guys then can do it. Yes I get your point about looking like athletes, but if it wasn't for guys like these, people like me wouldn't even be doing it at all. Aren't they allowed their moment in the spotlight?

Tell me what the differences are in running the 50 Cones on a slope or on flat. I know the rules were taken from the World Record which Martin did in London. But did they have a wind meassuring? or did they have beams or tapeswitches ? , or was it held in a competition ? Three times no.
/J-Rad

Were you there? No, neither was I, but I'm sure Guiness would have checked the wind. And do World Record attempts always have to be held in competitions? No.

Slalom is a sport that lives and changes trough innovation. Why should we not keep that spirit in the WR as well. Why this restriction (flat) in the 50 Cones and not as well for the 100 Cones.

/J-Rad

Isn't the idea of the 25 and 50 record events was that there were uniform conditions wherever in the World you tried it? You would't have a 100m record for sprinting on any downhill slope would you? And in that sport the 'Fat Knackers' get weeded out, but if a bloke who weighs 150kg and can beat Michael Johnson, let the bugger run! Like the film says - RUN, FAT BOY, RUN!

Spike.

[Neil Orta]

I guess I am overlooking what is probably the obvious but how would one set a course with infrared beams with start and finish at the center of the cones without the cones getting in the way of the timing or timing getting in the way of the cones?

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Of course, we will change the ramp from one direction to the other and hope that the naked women and the audience will apploud how we change the ramp.

They are there for watching slalom and not to watch how we can change the ramp position.

What is wrong with the rules is, that we are making rules and than see how it works. Every one with just a bit brain think first what he want's and than set rules !

What is more important for a World Record ?

- to show slalom with the best racers to the public
or
- to have one more event for big guy's where they can play in a secret place with them self.


You can practice, you can compete in outlaw races and you can compete on bigger races is it needed to have the WR as well in this class or is it possible to have the WR as a thing to show what slalom is and to promot it with the best racers of the scene in front of a big crowd ?

From my point of view the WR should show the best what slalom can give. And that is a small group of racer's which looks impressive on their boards. I want to show it to the Kids and they want to see the best to be impressed and to dream about it the next night.

For my it makes no sense that you or me or someone else who has no chance to set a record that he participate in a WR attempt. Those can practice and when they are in shape they can do it.

I don't want to attac anyone here, but to see a big guy in a WR attempt is just a big joke for me.

The other thing is, that the slalom scene can't chose where they want to held their races in front of a big crowd, we have to go where the people are, the people are not coming somwhere just to watch a slalom race. We get the Rennweg before 4 years, which is in the city of the city in Zurich, that's for Zurich like the trocadero for Paris.

As i asked it in the post before, who are those 13 people who make the decision for this rules ? That are arround 10% of the whole memebers. That's less than nothing !

We will for shure not run it in both directions and we will for shure not change the place where we will held the competition.

As a big tip for the future.

When the ISSA plans to set rules as first step say what the goals are of those rules. If the rules has no goals than they are not needed, very easy !

Tell me what the differences are in running the 50 Cones on a slope or on flat. I know the rules were taken from the World Record which Martin did in London. But did they have a wind meassuring? or did they have beams or tapeswitches ? , or was it held in a competition ? Three times no.

Slalom is a sport that lives and changes trough innovation. Why should we not keep that spirit in the WR as well. Why this restriction (flat) in the 50 Cones and not as well for the 100 Cones.

As i say before for me the WR is somthing for the best racers out in the slalom scene. There is one WR holder and he should have the honor for him self. All others who want to participate on this should practice and not get somthing of them trough any rules.

If the ISSA want's to improve than change those rules and make the WR what it is for.

/J-Rad

[Pat Chewning]

JRAD:

For all courses that are supposed to be done in the flat you have two choices:
A) Choose a surface that is flat (1% slope or less)
B) Choose a surface that is not flat, and run in both directions, average 2 runs.

If the surface you have chosen is the smoothest in the world, surrounded by hundreds of thousands of excited spectators, cone-headed by gorgeous naked women, and set in a beautiful city -- if it still is sloped so much that it really matters which direction you run it, then you must run it in both directions.

Even if someone were to fly out to your event, it would not change the flatness of the course. If your course is not flat, or you choose not to measure it as being flat, then run it both ways.

If you object to running it both ways, then that pretty well proves that it is not flat.

We cannot have world records set on sloped courses when they are supposed to be flat.

The rules are actually MORE PERMISSIVE this way. They allow running in one direction for slopes up to 1%.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Pat,

that's the shit of those good rules. I organise competitions since 2000 and have problems to understand all rules and to interpret them.

What do you think how is it for someone who has nothing to do with slalom.

We will do the 50 Cones in Zurich just in one direction, if you want you can fly to Zurich to control if the slope is less or more than 1%, i don't care.

The big question is: Should the World Record be done somwhere in a empty stadion with your friends or in the most beautiful city in front of thousend of people with a realy good level of competitors?

Answer the question by your self and have a look, which 15 people voted on this rules and tell me if there is just one organiser in this list who plans to hold an WR?

/J-Rad

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Put up a really large startramp (hello GOG crew) run 100 cones at 1.60 or 1.65 and then have a large quarterpipe and you could combine worlds fastest 100 cones with worlds highest air.

[Pat Chewning]

Pat,

We have a slope which is for shure more than 1% differenz between the start and finish for a 50 Cone WR.
And we have 180m street which makes it hard to set a 100 Cones course.

We planed to hold an World Record attempt (100 Cones if poosible, otherwise 50) on this street and invited 8 of the fastest racers here in Europe. The most already confirmed to attend the race.

What is now the solution for our competition, does we can't held any WR on this street ?
/J-Rad

The original concept for the 50-cone event called for a flat surface:
http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... light=FLAT The ISSA rules has put an actual specification on the definition of "Flat". If you had come up with a broader definition, we could have discussed this and voted on it. But you didn't. The 1% slope is the slope used on most football pitches to drain the water. It seemed like a reasonable number for flatness. If you have a slope exceeding the flat specification, you can run the 50-cone event by running in each direction and taking the average of 2 runs. This may decrease the likelyhood of setting a world record. I suggest finding a truly flat spot.


Yes, I agree with you that trying to set a full 100-cone course on a 180m long street does not look good (because even at 1.8m spacing, you need some starting and stopping distance). There is nothing NEW in the rules that is forcing this. This would have been a problem under any set of rules. Your street is too short for 100-cones.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Pat,

How does it looks like for our event in Zurich with the setted WR rules ?

We have a slope which is for shure more than 1% differenz between the start and finish for a 50 Cone WR.
And we have 180m street which makes it hard to set a 100 Cones course.

We planed to hold an World Record attempt (100 Cones if poosible, otherwise 50) on this street and invited 8 of the fastest racers here in Europe. The most already confirmed to attend the race.

What is now the solution for our competition, does we can't held any WR on this street ?


I have a meeting on the 15th of June with the City of Zurich. We want more publicitie and want to step forward as the main attraction of the car free day which attracts 100`000 people here in Zurich.

I would like to know if we can held the WR attempt for the 50 Cones and i would like to know how many of them (15 people) which voted on the rules are organising events by them self ?

/J-Rad

[Pat Chewning]

I guess I'm a little late coming with input to the rules, but why really should there be a masters division (and how old should you be), and why don't you specify that it should be center to center and not xx ft/meters between cones. A common mistake by beginners is to set courses this way and it makes quite a big difference.

The masters division is clearly spelled out in the ISSA rules (45 yrs old or more).

Clarifying that the measurement is to the cone center is a good idea and should be incorporated into future revisions of the rules.

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Sure it was clean, but the narrator still says that "if Martin knocks down any cone its a 0.1 sec penalty". I guess that kinds of settles the long lasting argument that misplaced cones means DQ. I'm sure Martin would have made a 4ft course clean to, at least in 40 or so seconds, but who cares its about making 100 cones as fast as possible - penalty included.

From what I've understood Martin was first and then Luca. But on the other hand the narrator also says that there is a time to beat so somebody must have had the record before Martin. Perhaps a list with names/dates/times/cones of all past records would be good.

I guess I'm a little late coming with input to the rules, but why really should there be a masters division (and how old should you be), and why don't you specify that it should be center to center and not xx ft/meters between cones. A common mistake by beginners is to set courses this way and it makes quite a big difference.

[Martin Drayton]

Sounds good Neil , but Luca who set the original record had displaced a couple of cones while setting it , I think there could be a cone max added to the event . Maybe 10 out!!

The true 'original' record was set by Martin Sweeney on the BBC Programme "Record Breakers", 100 cones @ 6ft.CLEAN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSLwX_MLvJs
I think Ed Brockman has the whole program on DVD with the additional footage which shows that being a super tight specialist, Martin then went on to do the same thing with 5ft spacings!....CLEAN.

Martin.

[Pat Chewning]

http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/ISSA/ ... ecords.pdf

[Richy Carrasco]

Sounds good Neil , but Luca who set the original record had displaced a couple of cones while setting it , I think there could be a cone max added to the event . Maybe 10 out!!

[Neil Orta]

I agree with Richie with all except for cone count-clean only.

[Pat Chewning]

Great idea Richie.... One weekend of around-the-world record setting.

I'll put something together.

[Richy Carrasco]

100 cone , Keep it simple and that way we could all keep record of what was done in the past and challenges for the future , .10 per cone , timer at first and last cone, cone setting to the riders choice, ramp or no but no tow in, We should pick a date for 100 cone challenge weekend around the world so all racers could challenge and maybe set a new record! Oi!

[Steve Collins]

Pat, thanks for taking the initiative to do this.

[Pat Chewning]

VOTING FOR THESE OPTIONS IS NOW OPEN IN THE "ISSA MEMBERS ONLY" FORUM.

[Pat Chewning]

Proposal A, "0-Cone awollance" is not correct. There are 10-Cone awollance


J-Rad

Fixed now.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Proposal A, "0-Cone awollance" is not correct. There are 10-Cone awollance


J-Rad

[Pat Chewning]

I updated the poll in the 1st post of this thread. I think it captures the essence of what proposals have been put forth.

Post here if you have changes to the poll and then I'll set it up (on ISSA-Members-Only forum) once it accurately captures the various proposals.

[Martin Drayton]

Just got the GWR Show DVD from China...Looks pretty cool. It was a featured record on the show and the only one that they showed in two sections.
A mere 240 million more people now know what skateboard slalom is! Here are a couple of screenshots;


Naill demoing an Offset course...


Getting a sponsor plug in...


The run itself.

The full video should be online soon!
Hopefully when everything is said and done, this will have done something to help public awareness of slalom, which for me was the bottom line...
Thanks again to all those who helped, my family also thanks you for helping us on the road to our Green Cards.

Martin.

[Jani Soderhall]

The most wins is a world record holder.

It's just a "fun" record for me, but absolutely worth recording. I think it would be fun to add a few more, such as:

- Most wins
- Most entries
- Most entries in a single year (Keith, this one is for you!)
- Highest ranking score (just comparing the number)
- Highest rookie score
- Best ever rookie position
- Biggest increase in ranking position in a single year (excluding rookies)


But I still think that a 100 cone record is more of a real record. The ones we're discussing now are more statistics/number crunching. But it's also a recognition for those worthy of them!

/Jani

[James Peters]

Not necessarily.
The World Ranking is based on points accrued at various events. A third place at a major is will lead to a higher ranking than a win at a Prime. What I'm advocating, though, is the win is a win whether it's a Major, Main or Prime. The most wins is a world record holder.

ok, then really what you're advocating is another way of crunching the world rankings numbers -- sounds fine a separate topic/argument...

[Wesley Tucker]

the World Rankings... isn't that where everyone's trend of wins in races is being tracked, over time?

Not necessarily.

The World Ranking is based on points accrued at various events. A third place at a major is will lead to a higher ranking than a win at a Prime. What I'm advocating, though, is the win is a win whether it's a Major, Main or Prime. The most wins is a world record holder.

[James Peters]

Oh, and these are WINS IN RACES, not overalls for the weekend....We should also recognize this achievement.

....(Guinness World Records are) not, however, the type of records the ISSA should be calculating. Let's determined who's the record holders based on performances at OUR SANCTIONED EVENTS.

Wesley, I understood this thread as a proposal to organize and track records on very focused/specced out trials, something basically new for ISSA to consider.

Which seems like a reasonable addition to what I think is already being fairly well tracked, but just not very heavily promoted, publicized, and revered throughout the world: the World Rankings... isn't that where everyone's trend of wins in races is being tracked, over time?

[Martin Drayton]

Wesley, just read the rest of that paragraph again...and the rest of my post.
Thanks

Martin.

[Wesley Tucker]

Firstly there ARE Ski and Snowboard Records for Speed Attained, set at the KL Course at Les Arcs, France..

That's SPEED, right? As in KPH or MPH? Skateboarding also does that. What's the world record KPH through gates over a given distance on a snowboard or a pair of skis??

[Martin Drayton]

I've been thinking about this and I suddenly realized what WE as the ISSA should recognize as world records: victories.

Is there a world record for the fastest ski, snowboard or water ski slalom? No. Why? Because these sports recognize the impossibility of an absolute standard from course-to-course.

So, what should the ISSA recognize as a world record? The same thing FIA, NASCAR, IRL, WCS and any other racing organization recognizes: the most WINS. That's our world record holder.

World Record victories in ISSA-Sanctioned events for:

Men's Pro
Men's Open
Women's Pro
Women's Open
Boys
Girls.

I'm not certain but I have a feeling the current world record holders in two of the categories are Jason and Lynn. I can't guess who the Open and young skaters record holders are.

Oh, and these are WINS IN RACES, not overalls for the weekend. A win in the tight and a second in the hybrid and the GS means ONE win.

Michael Shumacher, Richard Petty, A.J. Foyt and Kenny Berstein have all held the record in their various endeavors. We should also recognize this achievement.

I know Martin set a World Record for the Guinness people and congratulations to him. I wish I was that fast. That's not, however, the type of records the ISSA should be calculating. Let's determined who's the record holders based on performances at OUR SANCTIONED EVENTS.

Firstly there ARE Ski and Snowboard Records for Speed Attained, set at the KL Course at Les Arcs, France. I also don't feel that its possible to compare those two sports to what we are talking about as there are far more variables involved on snow, let alone courses getting rutted from the moment the 1st racer goes down the course. In our races a trough doesn't get formed in the tarmac which ends up 18" deep by the time we get to the dual racing...

Your suggestion sounds reasonable, but how will it take into account that some have more available funds to travel to compete in the first place?
Athletics recognises the fastest times (running) to establish records ie WR for 100m etc. Isn't it a good idea to have a record that is not completely out of the realms of achievement for 99% of the participants? Joe Bloggs in Indiana can train on his 25/50/100 cone course alone and work towards a benchmark, how is he, a guy with a full-time job and not much holiday time, going travel the globe racing to gain a World record by being World Champ for the most wins? How can he compare his race performance to Jason's?
In terms of exposure for the sport, connection with something the general public can relate to (like Guinness) surely can only help improve its popularity, and personally I think slalom needs that.

Just another view...

[Wesley Tucker]

I've been thinking about this and I suddenly realized what WE as the ISSA should recognize as world records: victories.

Is there a world record for the fastest ski, snowboard or water ski slalom? No. Why? Because these sports recognize the impossibility of an absolute standard from course-to-course.

So, what should the ISSA recognize as a world record? The same thing FIA, NASCAR, IRL, WCS and any other racing organization recognizes: the most WINS. That's our world record holder.

World Record victories in ISSA-Sanctioned events for:

Men's Pro
Men's Open
Women's Pro
Women's Open
Boys
Girls.

I'm not certain but I have a feeling the current world record holders in two of the categories are Jason and Lynn. I can't guess who the Open and young skaters record holders are.

Oh, and these are WINS IN RACES, not overalls for the weekend. A win in the tight and a second in the hybrid and the GS means ONE win.

Michael Shumacher, Richard Petty, A.J. Foyt and Kenny Berstein have all held the record in their various endeavors. We should also recognize this achievement.

I know Martin set a World Record for the Guinness people and congratulations to him. I wish I was that fast. That's not, however, the type of records the ISSA should be calculating. Let's determined who's the record holders based on performances at OUR SANCTIONED EVENTS.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Here is the concept for a 100 Cone WR challenge: http://www.pscontest.ch/project/jodli/C ... nes_WR.doc

with Input from Macster and Stefan Bölsterli.


Summary

The idea is to have an official body for the Slalomsktaboard 100Cones world record challenge. There should be an assosiation which coordinate the official world records attempts on sanctioned or not sanctioned ISSA competitions. At the same time there should be a place for unofficial records, which can be published by the racer himself on a central place like a website.

The goals are:

-Present the fastest male / female on a skateboard around 100 Cones.
-Present Slalom Skateboarding trough a small Event to a big public.
-Motivation to compare with other skaters around 100 Cones.
-To have the Elements in Slalom mapped on the WR challenge.


-Publishing the offical rules for the 100Cone world record challenge.
-Coordinating and publishing the offical 100Cone world record attempts.
-Publishing the offical World Record Holders.
-Running the central webportal.

**************
-sorry for the English, my corrector had no time to write it in a readable english


/J-Rad

[Wesley Tucker]

For me it seems that someone could place at say 5.5 feet on a flat and another could place at 8 feet on a slope. Who would get a faster time? the 5.5 placment would give a shortter distance but the sloped layout would provide more speed.

That's not the necessarily the case at all.

When looking at someone like Michael Dong complete the cyber slalom (174 feet total) in under 8 seconds, then the acceleration from the pump is a real factor. A skater with bionic hips like Dong, Gilmour or Maysey could very easily go faster with 5.5 on the flat than another skater on a slope with 8 foot spacing.

And let's not forget this is for 100 cones. That's a real difference of 544.5 feet compared to 792 feet. The difference of 247 feet is almost enough space for another slalom course.

[Neil Orta]

For me it seems that someone could place at say 5.5 feet on a flat and another could place at 8 feet on a slope. Who would get a faster time? the 5.5 placment would give a shortter distance but the sloped layout would provide more speed. In my opinion it is easier for everyone to give it a shot and not have to find the hill exact as the previous guy or to an exact spec some organization set rules to.

Just my two cents.

[Steve Collins]

I've always wondered why the 100 cone doesn't have a specific cone spacing. I think it would provide a better apples-to-apples comparison of times. Putting aside the issue of slope variation, can someone provide a sound argument for not having a cone spacing requirement?

[Neil Orta]

For "World Record" it is my opinion that:
(1) set distance from time start to first cone
(2) set distance from last cone to time stop
(3) 50 cone
(4) 100 cone
(5) Men's
(6) Women's
(7) Clean runs only
timing system- electronically controlled start and finish(ie beams or tapes-no stop watches)
Keep it simple-4 possible World Records

The ISSA can also seperate "Title" into
(1)Junior
(2)Men's
(3)Women's
(4)Master's

For purposes of recording and/or awarding for accomplishments.

[James Peters]

the first step to get a decent world record is the implementation of a timing system-not a stopwatch.
if guinness wants to walk the stopwatch way then it is totally uninteresting and contraproductive to any effort any race organizer has ever made when he put down a race.

This is a Non-Issue: Guinness will accept records claimed using an accurate timing system, like tape switches attached to a Tway timer. They'll also accept stopwatch times, but that doesn't mean we're required to use them at our events - so in fact we could make it ISSA "internal" stipulation that we use only a specific type of timing system.

[Donald Campbell]

the first step to get a decent world record is the implementation of a timing system-not a stopwatch.
if guinness wants to walk the stopwatch way then it is totally uninteresting and contraproductive to any effort any race organizer has ever made when he put down a race.

[Martin Drayton]

I think the idea of cone penalties complicates matters far too much. Keep it simple, clean runs only, even on the 100. If you can't do that, you're not WR material. Otherwise, it's just a matter of finding the steepest hill and plowing all the cones.

Age group records, it's fine for us to track them for our own internal purpose and edification, but I don't think Guinness breaks it down like that. Just one man / woman = one record, no?

The 25-cone cyber should stay as-is, IMHO. All the cone records require finesse, but the short cyber is the only one that requires true athleticism in the sprint, so it isolates a unique ability: acceleration on flats under your own power only. And given the current parameters its the most accessible record to work at, since its quite difficult to find a perfectly flat surface with adequate run-out, that can be run in both directions.

jp

Total sense...IMHO.
You will also need to decide whether you want Guinness to recognise the records set under ISSA auspices (clearly the very mention of the "G" word gets some folk here very vexed!), if so, they will no doubt have to be clean to be considered. That may not have been the case in Martin Sweeney's time, but is definately the way the current Guinness people want it.

Yes, they have lots of freaky records, but they also have Richie Carrasco, Danny Way, Shaun White and countless other 'serious' athletes in there too...

Why bother with Guinness? Well, if we ever want more than just the participants knowing what slalom skateboarding even is, involvement with them will bring it to a much wider audience, after all the GWR Book is the best-selling book on the planet. It could open doors to us if used as a marketing tool, just as the progressive thinkers holding the 'Race for the Old Jug' are doing.
They don't try to take over sports, just record events and recognise them.

Martin.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Thanks for the info Pat.

Will try to send in the documentation till March 14.

/J-Rad

[Zack Levitt]

Why does the ISSA have to have a rule or whatever for everything. Is the ISSA in charge of world records? Leave it to the people who record and publish records. IF you make rules and standards for everything at some point it loses its fun factor and gets all about the rules. If you rip on on a 25 cone course does that disqualify you as having a propulsion device that was jettisoned? NCDSA.com Cyber slalom, that is just retarted. I dont agree with Wesley much, but Adam, seems like an ass from what I have read. He wants credit for the name of a course used, that is retarted. Stop with the rules and just SKATE.

[James Peters]

I think the idea of cone penalties complicates matters far too much. Keep it simple, clean runs only, even on the 100. If you can't do that, you're not WR material. Otherwise, it's just a matter of finding the steepest hill and plowing all the cones.

Age group records, it's fine for us to track them for our own internal purpose and edification, but I don't think Guinness breaks it down like that. Just one man / woman = one record, no?

The 25-cone cyber should stay as-is, IMHO. All the cone records require finesse, but the short cyber is the only one that requires true athleticism in the sprint, so it isolates a unique ability: acceleration on flats under your own power only. And given the current parameters its the most accessible record to work at, since its quite difficult to find a perfectly flat surface with adequate run-out, that can be run in both directions.

jp

[Pat Chewning]

Will it be voted on every Detail ?

If you vote on every detail you loose the view for the whole WR-Concept.

I want to vote for a Concept and don't for detail points which gives a new concept in the end.

Why not a proposal (concept) from the BOD ? And proposals (concept) from Members who want to do a proposal ? And than vote for a whole concept.

What we are doing here is just a workgroup which works on one variant. I as a Member want to choose the best variant from 3-4 variants.

Before discussing about the details. The question should be "What is the goal for the WR-Concept" or "How does the Result look like"

/J-Rad

Yes, this is a workgroup on one variant. If you would like to propose a completely different variant, then go for it. I can include that in the voting. I didn't structure it that way because in my experience it is difficult to get anybody to create the "alternate variant".

I'll try to answer your questions:

1) What is the goal for the WR Concept?
Pat's goals:
A) Limited # of courses recognized for WR. So we don't have people doing the 67 68 69 cone world-records.
B) Uniform methodology so that we don't have to argue EACH time someone does this. (We only argue once -- to set the rules and methodology)
C) ISSA-sanctioned (So that alternate bodies -- e.g. Guiness Book of WR) are not telling us how to run WR's -- they are asking us.
D) Courses simple enough so that any reasonable contest director can follow them and set up a course for WR attempts.
E) Methodology rigorous enough so that WR's that are set are less subject to being disputed.
F) Use courses from past history to choose present rules (e.g. 100-cone, 25-cone, and 50-cone) -- don't re-invent courses if they've already been done.

2) What's it look like when it is done correctly?
A) Some contests start having WR attempts and WR's are set
B) The ISSA members are interested and BELIEVE the WR's being set
C) Communities where WR attempts are made are more receptive to holding races.
D) There are WR-specific contests set up -- with the specific and only goal to set WR's.