[2008] Euro Championships, Hannover, June [MAIN] Cancelled!

[Jani Soderhall]

If you cancel the race I lose my ticket and I lose the european championship.

And we lost participation in Paris, because people can't go to every event, thus being forced to make a selection. For Amsterdam, Riga and Grenoble this may actually be good news, but for Paris participation it's too late. (But the event was a success despite the low participation in the Pro event).

The cancellation of an event should be severly punished, but unfortunately we don't have any means to do so. In a bright future we could ask a race organizer to deposit a sum (to ISSA) prior to the event, at least for Main events, to assure that the race will be held (and that prize money can be distributed - hasn't that been an issue too?), and if not this sum could be used for compensating riders. But how big would that have to be? Right now we have only a few riders that have lost their money, but in the case of an event cancelled 2 days before (God forbid!) the amount could be enormous. But somehow we need to discuss this for next year. We should also have a last limit for confirmation of the event. Maybe we should have pre-announcements and then decide upon a confirmation to be given x months prior to the event, where the race organizer reassures the community that the event plan is on schedule and that Yes, riders can start booking tickets.

This is a very unfortunate situation and I feel sorry for both skaters and Detlef. Besides lost tickets (money), lost participation, lost titles, we may also be loosing a racer organizer here. Unfortunately I have no good ideas on how to solve the problem. It is a tricky situation and there will be loosers no matter what happens next.

/Jani

(please note that I wrote this while Detlef was writing his proposal to run it against all odds)

[Janis kuzmins]

I understud that Detlef is ready to organise the competition, and thats will be right.
I was surprised that hannover is cancelled, because on saturday when i talked with Detlef in Paris everithing was ok, he told that he find a hotel for participants, and that start ramp will be not in the middle of giant course.
And this time Prize money and status is not the main things, but the european champion title.
And a lot of people made plans for this week and spend a money (i will loose money)(except two best europeans in euro 2007 overall), which will not go to different location.

Ramon,
Dominik,
Peter.

Hannover was your choice (and Donald yours too), now need to do everything for this competition will be there.

[Detlef Rehbock]

i think there is not a maybe.
i explain you, that there is no money.
it takes some time and takes some words to make a decision.
i have make my decision.
i will pay for the euros as i wrote.

now it´s up to you. make your decision. ramon and dom and peter.
you gave me the status. what do you think? what is best for slalom?
you know the event from last year.

and for the money. in my application form i wrote 2.000.-
that means
tight, spezial, giant
1.Place 300
2.Place 150
3.Place 100
4.Place 70
5.Place 50
6.Place 30

In my private situation it´s not easy to decide, paying 3.000.- euro from my own.
I go to Paris to find out what is the best. I talked with some of you.
Please help me with your decision. Choose 1,2 or 3 (read above)

Or say amsterdam will be the better choice for the future.
i feel very bad about these situation.

[Luca Giammarco]

If you cancel the race I lose my ticket and I lose the european championship..

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Sad for you those who have got tickets to the race, but for the swedes who are busy doing other stuff this weekend a move of the european championships is a good thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbh3uAZ4WUM

[Donald Campbell]

i agree with carsten
sad to say there hasn't been too much activity from detlev prior to the race.
the "maybe i can do the race" doesn't really help now.
i got word from dom and ramon that "its either the euros and a main status or it's a bust "came from your lips in paris.
as there are several important aspects missing from this event right now,i guess its the best to walk away to another venue.
detlevs last post on this subject doesn't really help to clarify the situation.
as a matter of fact there hasn't been an update on the hannover homepage for a very long time and this also doesn't encourage anybody here to support this race anymore.
i would say that hannover was ok but its over now and saarstedt is definitely not the place to be anymore
a big expo festivity is a different thing.
we all think like this dete and we all like you,don't get this wrong.
but there is a time when decisions have to be made and it doesn't help to jump around saying no yesterday and yes today.
amsterdam is a nice venue,i would go so far to say it's better than hannover just from its attractivity.
maybe you take a break from doing slalom contests and come back later refreshed and with new ideas.

regarding the conversation which is held right now i think that this topic should have been made public way in advance and not right now,that's also an aspect of being professional in organizing.

[Carsten Pingel]

Thanks dete for reply!
That was an important information we needed! But not 4 weeks before the race!

[Detlef Rehbock]

it´s a bad situation. I worked since half a year, to find sponsors for our Race in Hannover. At the end there are only regrets. Nobody is interested to sponsor slalom skateboarding in Hannover. all the big distributeurs of skate stuff, ( who ride big cars) said no, we are mnot interested in slalom skateboarding. sure we tried to get money from the local industry.

So the situation is, there is no money at all. I posted in my application form, we will spend 2.000.- minimum value of prices. Organisation of the contest cost around 3.000.- Euro minimum. If you can count, there is a shortage of 5.000.- euros.

at this point a word to flavio. in paris we agreed, that you will inform me on thursday morning. till now i have not heard anything from you.

it´s a bad situation for all of us. What do you thing how much i pay for planning the event in the last six month? i think i paid around 1.500.- euro and spend around ten days of work inbetween the last six month.

all at all, it´s your decision. please choose an option.

1. I will cancel the race in Hannover. All skaters who have booked there flights and lost money will get a free hotel and free entry fee at our next race i will organise.

2. I will hold the european championships as we have planned, spend 2.000.- euros as price money and pay all the uncovered costs from my own pocket

3. I will hold a prime race on that weekend without price money to minimize my private damage as small as i can. This option only makes sense if enough skaters need this race, want this race and can´t life without that race.

In Paris, Flavio told me, he will check the financial situation in amsterdam. What he write for amsterdam sounds great. But please remember. We had great moments last year in Hannover too. Think how exciting the price ceremony was. Think how exciting the finals was. Think how many shirts and books skaters have to sign.

At the end i got the feeling, all this counts not too much. The most important thing is money. That´s the reason why i don´t want to organise another race after our last one. That´s the reason why i think about cancelling this years race. Because there is no money.
When i asked for another main status for this year, i was sure with the documentation from last years race and with full activity, i will get the money that we need for a great race.
But i didn´t get it. Say what you want, i tried everything. And now, please choose what you want. If you decide to cancel the race, than it´s fine for me.
If you decide to have the euros with a price money overall 2.000.- euro i will start working hard for this event and post all informations here in the forum

[Steve Hinzen]

Something about the big ramp:

I sign responsible for constructing the so called "Monster Ramp".

Last year a smaller version of The Ramp (2 meters high) has been tested in an outlaw GoG-race. In this race participants of all skill-levels took part. We were not shure if everbody would have the guts to try the ramp.
But every participant made the big drop without slamming and enjoyed the speed.

After this positive experience I promised to built a higher version for this year. The new ramp is 3 meters high and will be tested in the "Dicke-Rampe-Race" in a few weeks. Even if this is just another outlaw race where everybody skates at his own risk I am still responsible for the safety of everybody using the ramp, especially in the case that I am an architect.

I feel confident that everybody can make the drop if he wants to. I have seen many regular start ramps that were less safe and more difficult to ride.

But as the designer of the ramp I am responsible for the safety if it will be used in an official race. Nobody else but me will decide if and under which conditions this ramp will be in used in Amsterdam. So far this is just an idea about which the safety- and insurance-issue still has to be cleared. I think Flavio is the right partner to seriously deal with this.

Speed is your friend. Steve.

[Ramón Königshausen]

Sorry Gints for letting you wait.

We informed Detlef and told him to make a statement and explain what the matter with his event is.

Since it is his event he knows best how to explain the situation. That's why we will keep back with our own explanation and wait until he comes up with his.

rmn

[Gints Gailitis]

Hello Don!

First of all thanks for the great competition in Duseldorf! It was very interesting to see how you are making boards.
Of course big ramp it not a problem for the top raiders who are struggling for the European title. New ideas for slalom always will be great. I hope Amsterdam city help with medical service and safeguard no matter World cup or European championship. New country whose is ready to organize big event – it is great.

The second I don’t received answer for our Marshals. Is there real reason for your rumour- The European championship does not take place in Hanover ???
It will be nice if Detlef write quick info about Hanover. What the problem?

Thanks Flavio for quick answer !


www.skateboardinfo.lv

[Flavio Badenes]

About Amsterdam as candidate: how many people are in the crew?

Gints regarding the Amsterdam crew I can inform you the following:

Flavio Badenes: Computer Sciency degree from the Catholic University of Rio de Janeiro, MBA in Business from the same university. 10 years experience as International Integration Project Manager for LogicaCMG one of the largest IT companies in the world, I have worked in more than 30 countries around the world.
At this moment I am a national implementation manager for the Dutch Customs. I integrate work processes with information systems.
I have been skateboarding since the age of 12, I am 50 years old. I was the first brazilian professional skater. I won the first ever skateboarding contest in Brazil. I travelled countless times to the USA to skate the parks over there in the late 70´s and early 80´s.
I have organized a few contests being the Nokia Totally Board in 2003 one of them in the Amsterdam Arena ( a football station with 75,000 seats) . I did the skateboarding half pipe contest which was part of the WCS8boarding (read Don and Danielle Bostick) circuit. It was a total success. I also organized the Slalom contest in Amsterdam last year. It was small but well organized, Just ask anybody that was present.

My partner and old friend John Deurholt. Besides having owned one of the first skateparks in Amsterdam, world famous The Third Floor, has also organized the Dutch National street contest for 8 (eight) years in a row. He runs Iskateboard.eu these days and he is a influent caracter in the Dutch skateboarding scene.

Besides that I have the backup of the communication service of the city of Amsterdam, more specifically the municipality of Slotervaart.

And YES I have the full support from the Gang of Germany. THANK YOU GUYS!!!!! you know who you are.

Gints I hope this answers your question.
regards

[Donald Campbell]

hello gints:
there isn't a problem in setting up a smaller start ramp for the groups you metioned as we are taking care of the ramps for this event.
flavio is working with the city of amsterdam for this event,also he will have my personal help before and during the race plus! the gog crew will be there to take care of things at the race site too.

[Gints Gailitis]

Please ISSA European marshals (Dominik,Ramon,Peter) inform us all about the reason!

Slalom skateboard need European Championship every year for development of our sport!

My opinion is that the race status is not so important as European championship title!

About Amsterdam as candidate: how many people are in the crew?

The monster ramp for Euros is not a good idea because in European championship there must be lady and junior group and for them it would be too big risk!


www.skateboardinfo.lv

[Ramón Königshausen]

The situation is starting to make me really sad as it seems that it is just happening what we feared and could not avoid in any way.

What has just happened is not right at all - The consequences are becoming more and more visible as more and more people tell us that they have "already" booked their flights.

That's why I had tried to convince Detlef to hold at least a Prime Event or something, but that would not have given you much back. So at the moment, still, we should wait for his statement and ideas of how to continue with this dilemma.

What we (the ISSA) or Detlef could do, is sort of giving rebates to those affected by the cancellation of the Event in Hannover.

If and how this would happen, I don't know. This is just an idea we had.
Since we have never been in such a situation this issue will have to be discussed by the ISSA BOD.

The question remains whether the event organizer, or the ISSA, or the rider himself should bear the consequences of such a case.



We'll keep you updated!

rmn

[Luca Giammarco]

Are you crazy?!! I had already paid my flight (350 euro!). I'm sure that Maurus did the same and maybe other people too... This is really unbelievable and not professional!
I hope you will confirm the competition.
Moving the European championships to Amsterdam in middle of August is crazy. Many people like me in this date won't be there.

[Dominik Kowalski]

Janis, sorry to hear that. i hope Dete will be so kind and describe it once more for everybody to understand.

Ramon and I where also asking him to at least do a small contest, so there it wouldn't be a go for nothing! But than again, all would be a bit of a sad place and also he really didn't seem to like that idea anyway. He just wanted to have it off his shoulders, and there I'm getting a bit angry too.
We wanted to give him the chance for a big reason to put on a great event, and now so suddenly and so late in time, is a bit of a slap in the face. There is no reason why should have hold it back for so long. Cause now you see the outcome.

[Janis kuzmins]

REASON???? (very important reason).

Thats cost for me 280.eur.

[Carsten Pingel]

I have to cancel my hotel reservation, too!

[Janis kuzmins]

I book the flight, and its not posible to change them now.

[Dominik Kowalski]

--------------------------------------------------------------------
The European Championships 2008 moves to Amsterdam!
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Also appologies from my side. I wish we would have known it a bit earlier, than we would tell all of you right asap, but we kinda got into the situation as we talked with Dete in Paris.
I feel very sorry for this situation. The only chance to give Hannover a go, would have been the Euros for this year. But as it got pretty quiet, I thought this might happen.

So, I hope this won't affect many people, but than again, I hope this won't be a big problem for anybody.

More infos will follow the next days...Sorry again!

On a side note, those who have already booked flights...maybe you are able to rebooked either to Amsterdam or for our next GOG race in June the 7th (yeah...we call it eat shit and die race). If that will help.



The Euros are in good hands now, and I want to give a big "THANK YOU FLAVIO" for stepping up.

[Pelle Gustafsson]

expect the monster ramp for the gs in amsterdam.
we will also bring the gog ramps to the race
pavel and gog will support the amsterdam race the best way possible.
flavio has new tarmac and he brings the ifre to the race

be there or be square.

cant wait to rape that monster ramp with my new pawel....eat shit and die

[Ramón Königshausen]

First info:

There happened something that should not have happened. Our appologies.

We arranged to get informed tonight by those who are involved into this dilemma. As a matter of fact, we got the good news confirmed (Flavio + Amsterdam), but we are still waiting for the bad news to be confirmed....


stay tuned,

I hope you guys can make the best out of it. I feel really sorry we couldn't straighten it out in a better way.

So far I can't promise anything.

But I'll keep you informed, that's what I promise!

rmn

[Donald Campbell]

expect the monster ramp for the gs in amsterdam.
we will also bring the gog ramps to the race
pavel and gog will support the amsterdam race the best way possible.
flavio has new tarmac and he brings the ifre to the race

be there or be square.

[Ramón Königshausen]

Ok guys.

So far:

Don't book any flights to Hannover nor make any Hotel reservations.

If you have already booked a flight, rebook your flight to Amsterdam - That's where the Main Status and Euros will take place.


Further detailed information is coming ASAP!

rmn

[HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric]

I agree, I would really appreciate if Dete could clear the situation !

Right now I'm doing my best with my job to not work the 21th and 22th of june.... should I stop ?

[Stefano Bellingeri]

Hey, Guys,
no stupid jokes, please: Luca and I already booked the flight. I will have to confirm them before friday. So, please, let us know the exact situation. Hey Detlef, what about you? You told me two days ago that the race will be in the same place as the last year.
DO YOU CONFIRM OR NOT?
Thanks,
Stefano

[Donald Campbell]

due to the fact that i had a talk with several people during the last 3 days i found out that there are already some reservations made at the hotel and more are likely to happen.some people made arrangements for their holidays too...

so i will give everybody a warning that this contest is not taking place this year.
dete is stepping back from doing it in hannover.
no comment on the situation at all from my side
ramon dom or peter will give you all the lowdown on the situation and on new decicisions regarding the main status for anothe race then.
since time is of essence to make sure nobody loses money right now i felt the strong urge to warn people about this fact.
please stay put right now and don't book anything

wait for the official announcement please.

[Carsten Pingel]

The previous years we stayed at the Mercur hotel at the Hannover Expo area.
But due to the fact that the races are in Sarstedt we should invade a hotel in Sarstedt, right?

Dete? What hotel do you recommend?

My GS board is already waiting for the 15% slope!

[Pelle Gustafsson]

yeaaa cheap hotel close to competition? where do i sign up?

[Carsten Pingel]

any news??????????????????

we need to book the hotel to get the best price!!!!!!

[Dominik Kowalski]

yeah, that's what I thought too.... . I think it is about getting time.

[Tomas Potucek]

Hi, is there some webpage or so for the contest? Registration etc? Thanks, Tomas

[Janis kuzmins]

If hannover will be organiser of European championship, its important to see this in the name of topic, than any body will knew that hier will be euros. if words world cup its important for organisers, its posible name of competition Europian championship/world cup Hannover.(something like this was in Stockholm2005)

[Flavio Badenes]

It is good to know that the ramps won´t be in the middle of the GS course anymore. Actually that was scarier than the 15% pitch.

[Ramón Königshausen]

ok guys, I see you wanted information which you didn't get on first hand. Sorry for that.
Second: as soon as I'm done with my graduation paper (middle of next week) I'll post an event overview so you can see them all compared to eachother and plan your trips carefully. I will try to make it somehow like a travellers guide if you like...any further information should be available by contacti me (or dom) personally.


rmn

[Pat Chewning]

I already send it to Pat...he said he will upload it soon. Peter is too busy this weekend.

Pat,
start sorting out America before posting anything regarding Europe.

YFPK

DOM and DETLEF: I've been asked to stop helping in Euro sanctioning process and I will, now. Peter is correct, he will do all EURO and I will do all N. America sanctioning work, including uploading, anouncements, etc.

[Dominik Kowalski]

I already send it to Pat...he said he will upload it soon. Peter is too busy this weekend.

[Detlef Rehbock]

hey dominik,

please add our application form to the others. i can´t find it in the forum.

we work on a good race for 2008
issa rules will be respected.
two race tracks ( no ramps in the middle of the giant)
wider street for tight and special

transportation from the airport to sarstedt via subway in 40 minutes
the costs are 3,30 Euro. The subway goes every 30 minutes.

[Dominik Kowalski]

I totally agree that my bad impressions of HWC last year were also partly linked to the fact that it was my worst results ever but if we continue this way I wil say that you cannot be objective if you were on the podiums of this race (OK you were on the podiums of all races last year ).

dude...you should know, hannover was also my worst result ever.

[Vincent Berruchon]

let's move away from bickering a bit.
the season looks good lots of races the czech crew is coming on strong this year with good events too.
each country got what they deserved,no country should ask for more,my oppinion if you want to make it fair and square.

Wow
but no real bicker here (ok if we don't care to the kind animator MothaFuckaKlangstaElVikingos *LOL*)
Nobody want to demotivate the organization even if we point a few things but as Dete ever said, each race in Hannover is different, so 2008 will be too!

in fact there are some skaters that get really annoyed when it comes to these conversations on the internet.
hey i'm really mellow right now did anybody notice that yet?

Wise Donald
You know how much I'm fed up with forum stuff too (as we manage the Riderz forum too!) but we also need to discuss.

[Peter Klang]

Pat,
start sorting out America before posting anything regarding Europe.

YFPK

[Donald Campbell]

let's move away from bickering a bit.
the season looks good lots of races the czech crew is coming on strong this year with good events too.
each country got what they deserved,no country should ask for more,my oppinion if you want to make it fair and square.
in fact there are some skaters that get really annoyed when it comes to these conversations on the internet.
hey i'm really mellow right now did anybody notice that yet?

[Vincent Berruchon]

Dom, I don't want to accuse you or any "status marshalls" of bad intentions.
I was only pointing on lack of information...
As you've said France is well deserved, so I cannot say anything that you've probably compared many parameters and you have been attentive to hard work done by french organizers who try to fill for real criterias that we should expect for a Main race:
good quality spots where we will have a lot of public and exposure, easy access if possible in big city, big media exposure, experienced crew, big prize money, ...

I totally agree that my bad impressions of HWC last year were also partly linked to the fact that it was my worst results ever but if we continue this way I wil say that you cannot be objective if you were on the podiums of this race (OK you were on the podiums of all races last year ).

But hey, there were some issues, it's just facts and talking about that can help not to see them again.
and even if I like steep race this spot is definitely not a dream spot for me!

[Dominik Kowalski]

yeah..I see that point, and to be honest, we recieved the application not long ago, we talked about the contest and everything and dete that he needs to send the application soon, which took a bit longer. and the GOG aplication was my fault, as I filt it out, but didn't send it in.

ok, done.

[Pat Chewning]

I agree with Vinzzz comments about the lack of documentation/application forms for the contests. After much pleading I finally received some of the contest application documents from the Euro contest coordinators and placed them here for viewing:
http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=5599

It would be much better if you guys (Euro contest coordinators) were to handle this yourselves.

The sanctioning process is supposed to be:
1) Fill in the form for application
2) Make form available for all to see
3) Discussion/improvements/negotiation
4) Receive the status
5) Make an official anouncement of the status at the official place where status's are anounced (see above link)


It is not supposed to be in some other order:
4 ... 3 .... 1 .....2 ................ (no item 5)

[Dominik Kowalski]

Oh, come on Vinz....

Hannover was a succsess. yes, there where problems, but if you consider most contests do, and HWC was surely not the bigger problem. I know from others who really hated certain things at other contests. There always peolpe saying...uh I hate this..and that. I think this is mostly based on personal performance, or temper.
Klangster Ramon and me have chosen very wise, to say so. We are no mafia, or neither we do it because we want to piss people off. Especially Ramon and me were at all those races and were listening very closely to other racers and always analysed the atmo at the race side. Hannover will be a success, so will be Riga, and the whole year of slalomskateboarding, you can trust us on that. Indeed there is so much to consider what is to be taken care of, and overthink your decision, it is even more than just to respect the giving guidelines, you have to have a feeling what could be best for all.

Skating is suburbs, I know, can be boring sometimes, but on the other way, you'll mostly get more support from little cities than from bigger ownes, as they have other problems...
Statesville is pretty small too, but the whole town supporting it gives good race quality.
The kids you have seen in Sarstedt last year, all will skate this year. That is surely an impact.
What about the bright sides, for ex: how much as a pro did you pay for the entree fee at HWC with major status, compared to other races?

Dete, got it, as he also was listening to what we thought about the race. This time there will be two seperate tracks, so you can even run two disciplines at the same time.
Such for that now. Please stop thinking that we try to manipulate anything to our own goods. The frech have 2 main contests this unlike anybody else,
....so what`s wrong about giving everybody a piece of the pie?

[Vincent Berruchon]

I'm a bit surprised to see Hanover promoted Main so quickly as I had understood before that Dete wouldn't organize a big event in Hanover this year.

As everybody is giving his 2 cents, I will to.
I really don't want to attack Dete, he did good before and organizing is not easy but I was really deceived by last year race.
Deceived.. mainly because it's really deceiving to see everything was held in the suburb after having some events in the Expo area or in the city...
Any place where nothing happens will show big interest for anything called World Cup, but do we continue to have world cup in places where nothing happens?

I didn't feel it was so easy to go to Sarstedt with public transportation. You know we all have big luggages when we come from far (hopefully, most of the time some people give us a ride to go there).
In fact 100m or 150m at 15% is something very fun but it cannot be the only reason to give a main status especially when it's only the start but the second part of the race is finally not steep at all.

So if it's too late, there are some issues that really have to be :

- Having a scene in the middle of the road is not really safe and good for the show.
- having a lot of manholes covers constraining the courses is not what I call a world class spot. Some racers hated that, and it's dangerous for less experienced racers.
- and a big problem last year: rules respects ---> this can be addressed easily but it's really not good when it's not!
We had to ask a few times to have mark around cones before starting the qualifications!!
Some cone judges really didn't know the rules, the most flagrant was when some cones were counted as penalties when they shouldn't have been (still in the marks)


I should say that Main selection are a bit dark this year, I can't even see the application document for Hanover and GOG race!!!
or in application forms, nothing like exact location or prize money for Riga...
(it 's also the work of people in charge of status to ask for this kind of things and make them clear before going further...)

Perhaps it's only that all the informations haven't been available yet... but it's a bit surprising!

[Stefano Bellingeri]

I agree as well. The giant was super! Anyway, we should not forget the Brixlegg one as well. These were the best giants I ever had.
Take care,
Stefano

[Flavio Badenes]

I had a great time in Hannover last year. The site is challenging and the locals are very friendly.
Detlef even had a Brazilian flag ready. Hey what else can I say_

Super.