ExcelMate your new friend?

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Thank you for using the Excelmate during the PSWC2008, now since it was used with great success (at least from what I understood) hopefully more races will use it and soon the online part will be used as well.

Dan Gesmer gave me some feedback after the race so a new version with some minor changes are avaliable, thank you Dan!

New features in v2.5:
- No colors on the rider name dropdowns
- The name (and path) of the Excel file is shown in the top of the window
- DQ is added to the end of the cones dropdown. Simply hit "d" or select it and you can DQ a rider.
- The dropdowns with rider names move down two steps in the list during head to head when you save (and one step down during single lane).
- The colors are no longer windows theme based, but black and white.
- The manual is updated.

http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

I think that is it. Now download it and use it!

Thank you! /Marcus

[Jani Soderhall]

Many Thanks for all your efforts Marcus. It worked flawlessly during the Trocadero Grand Prix last weekend. Dan several time said "this is the best system we've ever had".

/Jani

[Daniel Gesmer]

Wat Jani Said! Thanks for all your hard work on this, Marcus!

[Sj Kalliokoski]

Anyone manged to get this work with OpenOffice Calc?

[Pat Chewning]

We want to use the Trackmate version 6.??? for the upcoming race in Hood River. (Connect to computer and download the times).

Does anyone have one we can buy, beg, borrow, or rent?

Please let me know......

Thanks,

-- Pat

Ed note: I answered off line. /Jani

[Marcus Seyffarth]

The 2.5 version had a bug when saving times, so anyone that has that version should upgrade to 3.0 which is available now. Apart from that there is no new functionality added, just that you have 2 different layouts to choose from. If you try the program, please let me know if any layout is better than the other and how they can be improved.

Download version 3.0 at:
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

Also I just got Trackmate version 6.7 from Jani with updates:
-Cadence beeps in qualify/single lane
-Shorter wait for final beep in random/Elimination mode.

Thank you! /Marcus

[Pat Chewning]

I like the layout with the right lane displayed on the right and the left lane displayed on the left.

I like the drop-downs for cone count entry.

I like the drop-down for the DQ entry.


SUGGESTION #1: When you "DQ" a racer : Instead of just entering "DQ" into the raw time field, can you prepend the letters "DQ" onto the actual time?

WAS: "DQ"
IS: "DQ12.768"

In this way, if for some reason you eventually want to "undo" the DQ, you will have saved the raw time information and it can be recovered by deleting the "DQ" letters in the cell entry.

SUGGESTION #2: Can there be a "Save BOTH" button? Instead of individually saving right lane and left lane -- one button to do both?

Looks like a real winner. I still need my new Trackmate hardware (should be here today).

[Daniel Gesmer]

Thanks to ExcelMate, I think the Hybrid and Tight slalom at Hood River ran more efficiently than any race I've ever helped at. Great work Marcus!

However, we experienced errors during the Giant Slalom, possibly because the times were always over a minute. ExcelMate entered incorrect times into the spreadsheet, so we switched to manual data entry. Marcus, can you speculate on what happened?

[Pat Chewning]

Thanks to ExcelMate, I think the Hybrid and Tight slalom at Hood River ran more efficiently than any race I've ever helped at. Great work Marcus!

However, we experienced errors during the Giant Slalom, possibly because the times were always over a minute. ExcelMate entered incorrect times into the spreadsheet, so we switched to manual data entry. Marcus, can you speculate on what happened?

yes, it went very smoothly. thanks dan & marcus

[Marcus Seyffarth]

I'm glad that it worked!

I'll look at the single lane thing. How long where the runs? More than 100 seconds?

Did you try the "live" thing or didn't you have time/internet? I just noted that no times were posted.

[Pat Chewning]

no internet --- didn't try live update.

times ranged from 74 sec to 100 sec

[Marcus Seyffarth]

I just debuged the program and it seems like there is some problem with the trackmate when the time hits 65-66 seconds. The time looks fine on the display, but the times being sent to the computer are all wrong. We need to speak to Daniel Groloux about this.

Here are a couple of examples that I just got:

Trackmate display shows: 1:00.109
Computer gets string "@01L1T60109" (i.e 60109 milliseconds, or 60.080 seconds) - OK!

Trackmate display shows: 1:03.211
Computer gets string "@01L0T63211" (i.e 63211 milliseconds, or 63.211 seconds) -OK!

Trackmate display shows: 1.07.969
Computer gets string "@01L0T2433" (i.e 2433 milliseconds, or 2.433 seconds) - False!

Trackmate display shows: 1:09.616
Computer gets string "@01L0T4080" (i.e 4080 milliseconds, or 4.080 seconds) - False!

Trackmate display shows: 1:15.414
Computer gets string "@01L0T9878" (i.e 9878 milliseconds, or 9.878 seconds) - False!

Trackmate display shows: 2:02.248
Computer gets string "@01L1T56712" (i.e 56712 milliseconds, or 56.712 seconds) - False!

Perhaps Daniel is using a 16 bit integer to hold the data (which can only count to 65535).

Anyways, we will need to get a new firmware to use the trackmate serial output for times over 65 seconds.

/Marcus

[Pat Chewning]

it is probably a 16-bit integer number storing in 1/1000th seconds---

therefore it will count to 65535 (65.535 s) and then start over fron 0.

===================


my pain meds are affecting me -- I just posted the same info as marcus ....

[Toby Warg]

67969-2433=65536
69616-4080=65536
75414-9878=65536
122248-56712=65536

Seems like you are right.

This would mean that we have to work by hand on our upcoming downhill race.
Very valuable to get this info before the race. Good work!

[Marcus Seyffarth]

at least someone brought their brain to the discussion...

When is the race, will you be using the excelmate? If so then I could add a button that adds 65535 to the time (until the real fix is in place) if you want.

[Toby Warg]

We have a slalom race on the 5th, but even if we are slow, I doubt that we will need more than 65 seconds, hehe.
The downhill race is on the 9th, and it will be longer than 65 seconds.

Since I haven't recieved the Trackmate yet, I don't really know how it works, and I can't really say if we will use Excelmate.
Maybe the wise thing to do is to skip it and concentrate on getting the Trackmate up and running first.

[Toby Warg]

Hmm, I have looked at Excelmate now, and it couldn't be easier!
I you like, it would be very cool to have that button. If you can have it done by the 8th, I'd be happy!

Is there some way to automatically group the riders according to the IGSA brackets for the race? If not, maybe it's doable in some other version?

[Marcus Seyffarth]

There is a firmware update for the trackmate already. Its version 6.8 and nothing else should be changed. However I have not had the time to install it and try it, but please do and let us know if there are any other problems.

About the IGSA bracketing, I'm not sure what it is but let me know and I'll think about it!

[Toby Warg]

I'll look you up tomorrow.
I'll try the firmware next week.

[Jani Soderhall]

As Marcus says the latest software patch is 6.8 and you can get it from either me, Corky or Marcus.

Use an old fashioned terminal emulator program to upload the new patch.

This will only work if you have a recent version of TrackMate. Bought wihtin the last year (approximately).

This version has the standard beeps in qualifying mode. And random waiting time before the 4:th beep in Final mode.

The bug with times (exported to PC) over 60 secs has been corrected.

/Jani

[Marcus Seyffarth]

A new version is out - 3.1.

The new thing in this version is a button so that you can look up the event id for live reporting. In other words no real changes unless you use live reporting.

However the spreadsheets that are shipped with the product is also updated. The new ones have masters added to the list of classes and the ones in the older versions have invalid references in them, making the eliminations go bananas if the different classes have different max cone count or different DQ penalty. Basically get the latest version and delete your old ones.

The live reporting was used at the worlds in some classes and to me it seemed to work very good, I was able to follow the races on the web browser in my phone while eating lunch. Pretty cool!

As usual the latest version is available at:
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

/Marcus

[Marcus Seyffarth]

I just installed version 6.8 on my trackmate that can output times on the seriall port that are greater than 65 seconds and it seems to work just fine.

[Miguel Marco]

Marcus,

With the Trackmate in mode 1 (single lane/dual quals/4 standard beeps) and in dual quals spreadsheet, I still get a reaction time sent to the spreadsheet (and doubled when start is before the 4th beep) as if it was in mode 0 and dual elims spreadsheet. It shouldn't be that way since racers in dual quals should be able to start when they want after the first beep without penalties.

Why is there reaction times and false start penalties in Dan's dual quals spreadsheet anyway?

Have I done something wrong or is our brand new Trackmate not "up to date"??? (It says version 6.8W at boot time and times over 65 seconds do work...)

Otherwise, Excelmate works fantastically well!

[Marcus Seyffarth]

I'm not sure, but I don't think the reaction times are computed into the total time. I believe the reaction time is there just to give you a hunch of if you are fast or slow out of the ramp. Perhaps I'm wrong, otherwise it is a bug. What version of the excelmate are you running? I will look into this as soon as I have a chance.

[Pat Chewning]

In Dan's spreadsheet, there is usually a single place to fill in the "Start Penalty" multiplier.

It is usually on the "Qualification" sheet.

It is usually 2X the early start amount.

It applies to times recorded in Duals and in Elims.

This is consistent with the ISSA rules (start penalty is 2X the early-start amount).

This applies to qualifications, single-lane races, dual-lane races.

-- Pat

[Miguel Marco]

I'm not sure, but I don't think the reaction times are computed into the total time.

They are when it's a false start. I just retested it.

What version of the excelmate are you running?

I installed it on august 14 from the link you posted on august 10, so I assume it's the latest. How do I determine it?

I will look into this as soon as I have a chance.

We will be using it at the Can/Am Slalom Championships in Antrim NH next weekend. I won't have internet access starting thursday around noon. Any chance of a new version before that?

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Thanks Pat,

As stated above its not a bug its a feature in the spread sheets. If you want the reaction/false start to be excluded just set the "false start multiplication factor" to 0 and you'll be fine (top left corner). The Excelmate only sends the available data to the spread sheets and I don't wanna add any filters so this is gonna stay. Thank you for using the program and please keep using it!

You can check what version of the excelmate you are running by looking in the top of the window when the program starts, it says version and build date.

I just uploaded a new version where the only change is in the spread sheets. A long time ago I added so that you can run 4 runs in single lane but missed the fact that if you only run 2 runs and people DQ both, then they dont have a valid time, so this have been a problem at the last races. This is updated in this version that I called 3.2. Perhaps I should add a version number to the spreadsheets as well.

http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

[Miguel Marco]

As stated above its not a bug its a feature in the spread sheets. If you want the reaction/false start to be excluded just set the "false start multiplication factor" to 0 and you'll be fine (top left corner).

Then it seems to be a weird feature cause the "false start multiplication factor" can not be turned off (=0) for the quals and on (=2) for the elims in the spreadsheet. Every north american dual race (ISSA sanctioned or not) I have been to in the last 4 years has had the "go when you want to after the first beep" type of dual qualifications WITHOUT false start penalty, and "go on the 4th beep" type of dual eliminations WITH false start penalty. And this includes the ISSA sanctioned 2007 Worlds, amongst many others!

Now to do this using Excelmate and the dual spreadsheet I will have to manually erase every reaction time (at least the negative ones) before saving each run during the qualifications...

How did they do it at this year's Worlds and Hood? I think they both used Excelmate and newer Trackmate.

The Excelmate only sends the available data to the spread sheets and I don't wanna add any filters so this is gonna stay. Thank you for using the program and please keep using it!

Of course we will use it! But I must say this "feature" kind of negates some of the advantages (less waste of time between runs and less data manipulation by humans = less errors) the Excelmate/Trackmate 6.8 combo adds, since we will still have to do manual data manipulations (erasing reaction times) practically every run during dual quals.

You can check what version of the excelmate you are running by looking in the top of the window when the program starts, it says version and build date.

Thanks! I have 3.1, build date 2008 August 10.

I just uploaded a new version where the only change is in the spread sheets. A long time ago I added so that you can run 4 runs in single lane but missed the fact that if you only run 2 runs and people DQ both, then they dont have a valid time, so this have been a problem at the last races.

Yes, I did notice that the racer who double DQed after only 2 runs ends up in 1st place. I will download the latest version then.

Thank you very much Marcus for Excelmate (great software!), your quick answers, and your patience!

[Pat Chewning]

How did they do it at this year's Worlds and Hood? I think they both used Excelmate and newer Trackmate.

At Hood River we took 2X the early-start amount and applied that as a false-start penalty.
We did this for the Qualification rounds and for the Elimination rounds.

The ISSA rules call for using the 2X false start penalty for all runs, qualification and elimination. In fact the reason the ISSA rules are the same for all runs is specifically so that race organizers (and racers) do not have to remember different rules for each run.

I suggest that you run the race with the 2X false-start penalty for both qual and elim races....

-- Pat

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Well that sucks that it affects both qulifications and eliminations... Never thought of that, and I haven't had the problem.

Normally people tend to start at the fourth beep so normally its not a big issue. However at the worlds this year it was a problem during the pro TS since the course was kind of hard and there was a lot of cones hit, so some riders just went really early (first beep) to get a clean course. I don't think anyone got banned but there was threats of DQ'ing people for doing this since it ruins the race for the audience.

Anyways, an easy solution would be to just write "0" in the reaction field whenever someone starts early (negative reaction) and the "0" would be transfered to the spread sheet once you click save. You probably know, but as a reminder, whatever you type in the textboxes will be transfered to the excelsheet when you click save, there is no magic.

But since you requested it and its a 2 minutes fix I added a checkbox "Discard reaction times" in the first page. It greys out the reaction time boxes so that you clearly see that there is something going on, and of course - it never fills them with reaction times.

I'm not able to upload the new 3.3 version until later today, but I could send it to you if you would like to test it.

/Marcus

[Marcus Seyffarth]

On another note, I'm not sure how the timer works in mode1 but in mode0 the time does not start running until the fourth beep, so starting one second earlier gives that you get a one second shorter time in the course than what you really had. So you really need to "add it back" using false start multiplier set to 1, to get the actual time.

i.e starting at the first beep give you a three second advantage and you would get 7.0 seconds even though you really spent 10 seconds in the course.

For those who look at the raw times during races its kind of interesting to know this, since if you false start it will look like you had a superfast rawtime, probably the fastest (raw)time of the day.

I have to try the Trackmate to know if its like this in mode1 as well.

[Toby Warg]

In mode 1, it starts the timer when the tape is activated, regardless of the beeps.

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Thanks Toby!

Now 3.3 is available. Same place;
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

Toby, tell me more about the IGSA bracketing that you want.

[Miguel Marco]

At Hood River we took 2X the early-start amount and applied that as a false-start penalty.
We did this for the Qualification rounds and for the Elimination rounds.

The ISSA rules call for using the 2X false start penalty for all runs, qualification and elimination. In fact the reason the ISSA rules are the same for all runs is specifically so that race organizers (and racers) do not have to remember different rules for each run.

I suggest that you run the race with the 2X false-start penalty for both qual and elim races....

Thanks for the info Pat but it's not my call, it's the organizer's. I've just been asked to run the timing table, while still trying to do my best on the race courses...

By the way you may have the same rules in quals and elims that way but you can't have the same beep pattern with the new Trackmate, which probably makes it even more confusing for racers. In mode 1 = single lane/qualifications, independant tapeswitch activated times, standard 4 beeps. In mode 0 = dual eliminations, common 4th beep activated start, random 4th beep.

But since you requested it and its a 2 minutes fix I added a checkbox "Discard reaction times" in the first page. It greys out the reaction time boxes so that you clearly see that there is something going on, and of course - it never fills them with reaction times.

Thank you very very much! This feature will make Excelmate even more flexible.

I will download it tonight and give it a try.

[Claude Regnier]

I don't remember that being done at any of the races I attended this past season.

That is not a good format for some Open events.

[Toby Warg]

Toby, tell me more about the IGSA bracketing that you want.

In downhill, you normally have two qualifying runs, when you are alone on the course.
What I'd like is a way to add any number of riders, run the qualifying (any number of runs) and have ExcelMate place the riders in a chosen bracket, depending on the number of riders.

http://www.igsaworldcup.com/rulebooks/2 ... _final.pdf - pages 26-34 shows the brackets that are used.
(2014 update: IGSA World Cup web site no longer available)

When the qualifying is over, the times/placing will determine your place in the race when being completely eliminated from the race.

I am a little too tired to follow my own thoughts now. Ask me about what is not clear. :)

[Miguel Marco]

What is the purpose of the "secs max head-to-head victory margin" field in Dan's dual racing spreadsheet?

What does it do and what should it be set at?

[Pat Chewning]

What is the purpose of the "secs max head-to-head victory margin" field in Dan's dual racing spreadsheet?

What does it do and what should it be set at?

The purpose: Limits the amount of time allowable for one racer to beat the other racer in a single run of Head-to-Head competition. (Used in some races in the past). It should be set to 0 (turned off) in order to comply with the ISSA rules.

[Pat Chewning]

By the way you may have the same rules in quals and elims that way but you can't have the same beep pattern with the new Trackmate, which probably makes it even more confusing for racers.

I disagree. If you get the latest Trackmate hardware, load firmware revision 6.3 onto it.

Now it communicates with Excelmate, has 4 standard evenly-spaced beeps, and provides the reaction time necessary.

You set it on mode 0 and leave it for the entire race. Same beep pattern for all races.

No mess, no fuss, no changing between Quals and Head-to-Head.

[Miguel Marco]

What is the purpose of the "secs max head-to-head victory margin" field in Dan's dual racing spreadsheet?

What does it do and what should it be set at?

The purpose: Limits the amount of time allowable for one racer to beat the other racer in a single run of Head-to-Head competition. (Used in some races in the past). It should be set to 0 (turned off) in order to comply with the ISSA rules.

With the spreadsheet that comes wih the latest version of Excelmate, it doesn't work when you set it to 0 or leave it blank. All winning margins become 0 and you end up with a bunch of ties (when a racer wins the first race and the other racer the second).

To get the real winning margins, it must be set to something high that won't limit the winning margins, like 999.

[Chris Barker]

By the way you may have the same rules in quals and elims that way but you can't have the same beep pattern with the new Trackmate, which probably makes it even more confusing for racers.

I disagree. If you get the latest Trackmate hardware, load firmware revision 6.3 onto it.

Now it communicates with Excelmate, has 4 standard evenly-spaced beeps, and provides the reaction time necessary.

You set it on mode 0 and leave it for the entire race. Same beep pattern for all races.

No mess, no fuss, no changing between Quals and Head-to-Head.

Pat, do you have firmware download for 6.3? My new clock came with it, but I don't want to upgrade to random beep 6.4/6.5/6.8? unless I knew I could downlevel back to 6.3.

But... Doesn't 6.3 also have the greater than 64K milliseconds problem?

As I posted in the other discussion, it would be nice to have a working firmware download with the cadence beeps or a physical way to switch between cadence and random...

The whole thing has turned into a giant timer abortion...

[Pat Chewning]

Chris:

Yes, I have firmware for all versions. Will send them to you.

Yes, FW version 6.3 has the problem of max 64.536 seconds..... That is why we had to manually record times in the GS at Hood River.

Yes, I agree that the Trackmate was updated without agreement from the slalom community as to what we really wanted.

In fact, when I finally got through to Dan at Trackmate he was VERY surprised that anyone would want to go back from the newer version 6.8 to the "inferior" version 6.3 ...

[Marcus Seyffarth]

Chris,

I think that once you have tried the 6.8 you don't wanna go back to 6.3. Its simply much better with the random beeps. No fuss, no learning to time the beep, no early starts, no lifting of wheels, just real reaction.

But having the opportunity is always good. Good to know that you have all versions Pat.

/Marcus

[Marcus Seyffarth]

I added a "refresh riders" button on the "race tab". It is only visible during qualification and single lane. If some rider arrives late (we know this never happens but IF) then you can just type in the name in the excelsheet, click the button and - bam the name is in the list and can compete. As simple as that.

I also changed so that the reaction is always visible unless you have actively selected the "Discard reaction times" checkbox. At swedish championships this year we used the random beep during single lane to make it more interesting and then it was good to see the reaction times so I think its good to be able to make the choice.

Now 3.4 is available. Same place;
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi


Thanks to all of you who are using this and making the races run smoother!

[Toby Warg]

Thanks to all of you who are using this and making the races run smoother!

Thanks for making the program!

[Miguel Marco]

I added a "refresh riders" button on the "race tab". It is only visible during qualification and single lane. If some rider arrives late (we know this never happens but IF) then you can just type in the name in the excelsheet, click the button and - bam the name is in the list and can compete. As simple as that.

Very very cool!

Thanks to all of you who are using this and making the races run smoother!

No man! Thanks to you for all your work on this fantastic tool!

[Marcus Seyffarth]

No one probably even used the 3.4 and already the 3.5 is here...

When the race is down to finals you had to switch back and fourth between consi and final round in the round selector and this felt like a drawback. So the 3.5 only have one "Final & consi" item in the dropdown.

All 4 riders who made the finals will appear in the "riders dropdown" but to make it clear who made it to the finals and who got to consi the program adds a "- (final)" or "- (consi)" after the name of the rider. I think it will make it easier to use.

3.5 is available at the same place as usual;
http://www.ettsexett.com/200/ExcelMateSetup.msi

I'm starting to get low on improvements, let me know if you have any ideas!

/Marcus

[Claude Regnier]

Can you add in my handicap for next season. I think it's .5 per year age difference once you turn 50.

Thank you in advance..................

[Marcus Seyffarth]

It'll be in the next version!

[Claude Regnier]

Please send me a reminder as I am likely to forget, EH!

Have a great winter. Hope to see you next season.

Thanks for everything. The system has been great at every event using it that I have attended this past season.