Random thoughts...

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Rick Floyd
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Random thoughts...

Post by Rick Floyd » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:05 am

Medals/trophies instead of ribbons. Where did DHB get the nice pieces they handed out in 2007? I'd volunteer to gather funds to buy them, and even outright pay for them if it was in my realm of affordability. The World Champions should have a big-ass silver cup!!

We had top 32 for finals in '07 - seems like 16 will be too few and too fast - only 4 rounds, and a lot of folks who paid big airfare/hotel +car/entry fee/party fee/vaca time from work, only getting two runs per event in the TS/HY.

How were the above handled in Sweden last year?

Don't remember a Masters class in 2007 - was there one last year? IMO if one can earn points towards a Masters season ranking it seems to make sense that there would be a Masters division at the two biggest point events of the year. The Masters class is growing, so maybe at some point this can happen, produce viable exciting competition, and enough registrants to make it worthwhile.

-RF
Last edited by Rick Floyd on Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:24 am

A few random answers.

In '07 the DHB had Gordon Street without any limitations until 6 or 7 Sunday night. As such running 32-man brackets was more than feasible. Limiting the eliminations to a round of 16 could have a number of reasons, the most likely being time allowed on the hill.

The only other Worlds I attended was '02 at Avila Beach and Morro Bay. It was an FCR event and both the dual GS and dual hybrids for pros and ams was 16 qualifiers. What's more is all the qualifying was on Friday on the GS hill. Qualify there and race all weekend. Don't and be done. So that Worlds had 16-man brackets for two classes on Saturday and Sunday with no qualifying. Whether Jack opened it up to more racing in '03 and '05 I don't know.
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Post by Jani Soderhall » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:56 am

There was no Masters category in Sweden last year.

/Jani

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16 racer finals

Post by Jack Smith » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:21 pm

It's the Worlds.

Unlike so many other sports, our sport offers everyone a chance to compete in the World Championships, show up and pay your entry fee and you're in.

The round of 32 is useless when you are running the typical head to head, swap lanes, lowest overall time advances format.

If you qualified between 17 and 32, the writing is usually on the wall, and if you're reading this...you surely can read the "writing on the wall".

If you're worried about the number of runs you will receive at the Worlds, you should probably buy a plane ticket to a nice vacation spot, perhaps Hood River, I'm sure the organizers could use some extra volunteers.

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Re: 16 racer finals

Post by Rick Floyd » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:55 pm

Jack Smith wrote:It's the Worlds.

Unlike so many other sports, our sport offers everyone a chance to compete in the World Championships, show up and pay your entry fee and you're in.

The round of 32 is useless when you are running the typical head to head, swap lanes, lowest overall time advances format.

If you qualified between 17 and 32, the writing is usually on the wall, and if you're reading this...you surely can read the "writing on the wall".

If you're worried about the number of runs you will receive at the Worlds, you should probably buy a plane ticket to a nice vacation spot, perhaps Hood River, I'm sure the organizers could use some extra volunteers.
Jack - thanks for your input; as you know I respect what you have to say. however, as you said in another spot recently "Why is it that the things that bind us also tear us apart?" I don't know your intended tone in this post, but it seems a bit harsh in that vein. I don't plan to go to hood to "volunteer" for anything, unless I am asked to do so.

FYI my intended tone above was to put options out there for discussion - not to damn the organizers of this year's event. The other Worlds I attended in 07 used rounds of 32, so they obviously didn't feel it was "useless". We all know that when you get down to the 16 vs. 17 and 15 vs. 18 pairs that anything can happen, and in the close time diffs. in this level of event that 17 may even win the next round too, thus giving a MUCH higher finish in the top 8 even though they may have quali'd 17th.


I'm not worried about the number of runs I will get. But for people lower down, to me anyway, it's not that the "writing is on the wall" - I get that of course - but that they get a chance to race a top racer ONE more time. In 2007 it was a great thrill to me to get into the top 32 in the TS (Wesley too - you seemed pretty excited about that as well) and then to race the 7 seed, Kevin Dunne, who bested me easily. It wasn't about my eventual finish spot, but that I got to race someone that much better than me, learn more by doing so, and got to know Kevin a little and get some tips. Again, for the money I spent to go - it made my weekend. :-)

-RF
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Post by Rick Floyd » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:14 pm

Wesley Tucker wrote:A few random answers.

In '07 the DHB had Gordon Street without any limitations until 6 or 7 Sunday night. As such running 32-man brackets was more than feasible. Limiting the eliminations to a round of 16 could have a number of reasons, the most likely being time allowed on the hill.

The only other Worlds I attended was '02 at Avila Beach and Morro Bay. It was an FCR event and both the dual GS and dual hybrids for pros and ams was 16 qualifiers. What's more is all the qualifying was on Friday on the GS hill. Qualify there and race all weekend. Don't and be done. So that Worlds had 16-man brackets for two classes on Saturday and Sunday with no qualifying. Whether Jack opened it up to more racing in '03 and '05 I don't know.
Thanks Wes - I totally agree that you race withing the rules of a given event, or you just don't go. I'm hoping that we can always discuss what those rules are, for this or future events though, and I appreciate your info on other worlds I did not attend.

As I said to Jack above - I do remember you and I being pretty pumped and high-fivin' in Statesville when we were the last two to quali in the TS #25 and #26 or whatever it was...nobody after those positions even completed the course. :-)

Believe me - I am not going to pass on going to Hood just because it will be a round of 16 final.

I understand the time on the hill issue - and that may be part of it of course. One reason I liked Jack's format in Morro last year so much. We ran a bunch of different classes, each in their own finals rounds, double elim, and were off the hill before 5pm. Of course, we quali'd everyone the previous day for both TS/HY, then ran both TS/HY finals Sunday, and had presumable less racers (48 or so?). We were off the hill on Saturday by 2 or 3pm I think.

One problem with using GS to quali eveyone for the other disciplines is that people have different strengths in given disciplines. For example, I am much stronger in GS than the other events. At the Farm last year we used the GS results to quali for the TS (necessarily as it was a one-day event). I got 8th or so in the GS, but then was seeded in the A group for TS. Got ousted easily by Seb in the first round. Would much rather have raced Glenn / Danilo / Sydia in the B's for that one, and would have been a better "match" for that bracket. I of course enjoy racing Seb, and again learned more from doing so, and it was feather in my cap having an A class result (plus the better points if it had been a points race) - but if it WAS a points race, I feel that would be a little unfair to my brothers in the B group, whom I likely would have quali'd with had we done straight TS quali runs.

-RF
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Post by Rick Floyd » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:15 pm

Jani Soderhall wrote:There was no Masters category in Sweden last year.

/Jani
Thanks Jani - what is your OPINION on this? If you feel safe in giving it! ;-)
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:24 pm

Rick Floyd wrote:]As I said to Jack above - I do remember you and I being pretty pumped and high-fivin' in Statesville when we were the last two to quali in the TS #25 and #26 or whatever it was...nobody after those positions even completed the course. :-)
I was 27th.

After losing to Stryker in the first round I took great pride in announcing being the 27th fastest open tight slalom racer in the world!
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Too early

Post by Jack Smith » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:03 pm

Rick, a couple of things...I wrote that post way too early in the morning, and it wasn't directed towards you personally.

If I came across as "harsh", I apologize.

From my experience in putting on a few races, the round of 32 rarely produces an upset. What it does do, is subject the spectators to some very boring races, which usually results in the casual/walk-by fan walking away from the event before the action heats up. One thing that can help here is to run the qualifying on a separate day if possible.

The round of 32 also adds to the overall time it takes to run the event, thus causing organizers to cut "time corners" and hurry some of the other classes.

The World Championships should not be about the number of times a racer gets to race, it should be about the quality of the racing, seeing the best in the world go at it.

I'll use a pole vault analogy...So in my younger years I vaulted about 12', let's say the World Track & Field Championships were an open event with no qualifying standard, myself and a slew of other 12' vaulters show up. The spectators are expecting to see vaulters in the 17'-19 range, so while my buddies and I struggle to clear 12', the spectators become bored and the "world class" vaulters sit around in the sun having their energy zapped and getting frustrated. Fortunately, the World Track & Field Championships are not an open event, they require that you have reached a certain skill level, clearing a pre-determined qualifying height within the season.

I feel that we are at a point in our sport where we probably need to decide if we want to continue with the "open" nature of the World Championships or move to some type of "qualifying standard". The racer part of me wants to stay with the open style of event, the organizer side of me wants to see a "qualified racer" system.

All the best,
Jack
PS - Rick, I'm going to Hood River as a volunteer, so try to keep the "hit cones" to a minimum so that I don't have to get out of my course side lawn chair too often.

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Re: Too early

Post by Rick Floyd » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:54 pm

Jack Smith wrote:Rick, a couple of things...I wrote that post way too early in the morning, and it wasn't directed towards you personally.

If I came across as "harsh", I apologize.

From my experience in putting on a few races, the round of 32 rarely produces an upset. What it does do, is subject the spectators to some very boring races, which usually results in the casual/walk-by fan walking away from the event before the action heats up. One thing that can help here is to run the qualifying on a separate day if possible.

The round of 32 also adds to the overall time it takes to run the event, thus causing organizers to cut "time corners" and hurry some of the other classes.

The World Championships should not be about the number of times a racer gets to race, it should be about the quality of the racing, seeing the best in the world go at it.

I'll use a pole vault analogy...So in my younger years I vaulted about 12', let's say the World Track & Field Championships were an open event with no qualifying standard, myself and a slew of other 12' vaulters show up. The spectators are expecting to see vaulters in the 17'-19 range, so while my buddies and I struggle to clear 12', the spectators become bored and the "world class" vaulters sit around in the sun having their energy zapped and getting frustrated. Fortunately, the World Track & Field Championships are not an open event, they require that you have reached a certain skill level, clearing a pre-determined qualifying height within the season.

I feel that we are at a point in our sport where we probably need to decide if we want to continue with the "open" nature of the World Championships or move to some type of "qualifying standard". The racer part of me wants to stay with the open style of event, the organizer side of me wants to see a "qualified racer" system.

All the best,
Jack
PS - Rick, I'm going to Hood River as a volunteer, so try to keep the "hit cones" to a minimum so that I don't have to get out of my course side lawn chair too often.
Thanks Jack - I figured as much. All good points. No hard feelings my friend. I'll try to run clean through your section, and when/if I get eliminated (:-), I'll help you out if you trade me some Ibuprofen!

I'm all for a qualifying standard actually. In my USASA snowboard racing I had to be the number one point getter in my division in my region to even get an INVITE to the USASA Nationals. Being number two was no good unless one was pre-qualified from being the previous year's champ, or invited when other 1st place qualifiers in other regions declined the invite.

I actually just read the Worlds official ISSA page and the TS/HY info says verbatim:
"16 highest qualifiers will be seeded into finals (this number may be altered for lower or higher attendance)"...so it's not written in stone for this year anyway. I'm sure if they get 50 AMs showing up there is a chance finals would be a round of 32. That likely won't happen, but I like to think there are 50 AMs in the world that people wouldn't get bored watching - maybe I'm wrong.

I though about the perception/promotion of our sport a lot over the winter. When I see FISHING competitions on ESPN, with BIG trophies and money, or Pro BOWLING, I wonder if we just aren't marketing things well - I mean REEEEEALY marketing, like with professional marketers. Who pays them? Right, oh well.

I have raced in some FIS-level Alpine Snowboard NorAms, where only the top 16 make the H2H finals after qualis, and finished like 36th out of 50. Even though "name" US/Canada/Netherlands team members like Chris Klug, Adam Smith and Nicolien Sauerbreij raced in those events, there were practically zero spectators, yet the FIS snowboard series are very well funded and organized compared to skateboard racing. I had an absolute blast racing with those caliber riders, picking their and their coaches brains for info/tips, and beating 15 or so riders half my age (I was the oldest by ten years at one event). So some of my perspective comes from experiences like that.

I hope the organizers will take my offer to get a pool together to pay for really sweet trophies/medals as what it is - a sincere grass roots offer to help make the event as special as possible. If they request that I drop the idea I will.

It's getting plenty warm to train here - three days in just the last week...the 2009 Vermont miracle continues!!

Happy sk8'in!
-RF
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Re: Random thoughts...

Post by Marcus Seyffarth » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:05 pm

Rick Floyd wrote:How were the above handled in Sweden last year?
I wasn't one of the organizers but from what I know they wanted the best of the best to race during a short period of time during the best time of the day. This meant that the am/wo/jr had their riders meeting at 07.00 in the morning. The pros had theirs at 14 or 15 and there was 2 warm up runs, 2 qualify and then the top 16 went into finals. All to keep the focus of the audience and show close and fast racing. Of course there was some rain so times got changed around but this was the intention at least.

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Post by Robert Gaisek » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:10 pm

Yessss....................that was some early mornings for us noob´s, but the audience loved it and there was some great races with lots of people around.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFsFJ_L9 ... annel_page
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Re: Random thoughts...

Post by Rick Floyd » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:36 pm

Marcus Seyffarth wrote:
Rick Floyd wrote:How were the above handled in Sweden last year?
I wasn't one of the organizers but from what I know they wanted the best of the best to race during a short period of time during the best time of the day. This meant that the am/wo/jr had their riders meeting at 07.00 in the morning. The pros had theirs at 14 or 15 and there was 2 warm up runs, 2 qualify and then the top 16 went into finals. All to keep the focus of the audience and show close and fast racing. Of course there was some rain so times got changed around but this was the intention at least.
Marcus - I'd love to talk to you more about this. PM'd you.

-Rick
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A few changes for the better at the 2009 World Championships

Post by Pat Chewning » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:08 am

The organizers of the 2009 World Championships have decided to add a separate MASTERS class.

This is in response to the racers asking for this.

(We also eliminated the PRO Women's class). All of the Women will race in the Women OPEN (PRO/AM) class. (The women wanted to race all in one big group). We are still paying out for the top 1,2,3 racers in the Women's group.

Additionally, the # of competitors advancing to the finals (head to head) is not 16 racers .... the MINIMUM number advancing is per the ISSA rules [which dictates the # to be advanced based on the size of the group of racers who have qualifying times].

We have heard you and are making these changes.

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Re: A few changes for the better at the 2009 World Champions

Post by Rick Floyd » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:40 pm

Pat Chewning wrote:The organizers of the 2009 World Championships have decided to add a separate MASTERS class.

This is in response to the racers asking for this.

(We also eliminated the PRO Women's class). All of the Women will race in the Women OPEN (PRO/AM) class. (The women wanted to race all in one big group). We are still paying out for the top 1,2,3 racers in the Women's group.

Additionally, the # of competitors advancing to the finals (head to head) is not 16 racers .... the MINIMUM number advancing is per the ISSA rules [which dictates the # to be advanced based on the size of the group of racers who have qualifying times].

We have heard you and are making these changes.
Wow Pat - right on!

In re-reading the signup website - it DOES say "16 highest qualifiers will be seeded into finals (this number may be altered for lower or higher attendance)." My bad.

:-)

-RF[/i]
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Post by Martin Drayton » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:19 am

Well done Pat and thank you for listening.

MD

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Re: Random thoughts...

Post by Sebastien Leger » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:41 pm

Rick Floyd wrote:Medals/trophies instead of ribbons.The World Champions should have a big-ass silver cup! -RF
Yes they should!

my 2 cents

S

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Re: Random thoughts...

Post by Rick Floyd » Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:55 pm

Sebastien Leger wrote:
Rick Floyd wrote:Medals/trophies instead of ribbons.The World Champions should have a big-ass silver cup! -RF
Yes they should!

my 2 cents

S
I forwarded them the tropy/medal info for the company who supplied the killer ones DHB gave out in 2007.

-RF
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Post by Sebastien Leger » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:21 pm

Maybe the ribbon are trophy like this? These trophy are also call Ribbon. They look pretty cool.

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Post by Sebastien Leger » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:21 pm

Does any one from Hood River would know how much is a cab ride from the airport to downtown Hood? Car rental for 24h is around 75.U$

Please let me know

Thanks

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Post by Chris Iversen » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:11 am

Seb.

What time are you guys getting into Portland? I might be able to make something happen for you guys. We are driving down from Vancouver on the 16th (Thursday). We are planning to leave Vancouver in the morning, putting us there sometime in the afternoon. If we can time it right, we might have room for two in our vehicle. Us Canucks have to stick together right?

Shoot me an email:

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Post by Jonathan Harms » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:07 am

Seb, you can take a bus from Portland to Hood River (and back!) for about 20 dollars. (You also have to take a metro train from the airport to a bus transfer station, but that's only about five bucks or less.)

Check out the bus company's website at www.greyhound.com . Or send me a PM and I can tell you more.

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Post by Sebastien Leger » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:48 pm

Chris Iversen wrote:Seb.

What time are you guys getting into Portland? I might be able to make something happen for you guys. We are driving down from Vancouver on the 16th (Thursday). We are planning to leave Vancouver in the morning, putting us there sometime in the afternoon. If we can time it right, we might have room for two in our vehicle. Us Canucks have to stick together right?

Shoot me an email:

chrisiversen@shaw.ca
Thanks for the help on this. Unfortunotly we are 3 + 2 board bag and you only have room for 2. It's all good I think I'm good to go with the car rental. Joe I and Rick gave me some good site to find great deal. Can wait to meet you!
JBH quote...Seb, you can take a bus from Portland to Hood River (and back!) for about 20 dollars. (You also have to take a metro train from the airport to a bus transfer station, but that's only about five bucks or less.)
Thanks JBH!

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CArs

Post by Marty Schaub » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:23 pm

Seb

2 other cars sites. Breezenet.com is the best as they compare all of the companies out of PDX. Be sure to click" see more companies" once the first set of sponsored rates comes up. They also have a last minute rental section that links to Alamo.

That and Hotwire.com. They are a major dumping ground for cars at the last minute.
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Re: CArs

Post by Sebastien Leger » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:29 pm

Marty Schaub wrote:Seb

2 other cars sites. Breezenet.com is the best as they compare all of the companies out of PDX. Be sure to click" see more companies" once the first set of sponsored rates comes up. They also have a last minute rental section that links to Alamo.

That and Hotwire.com. They are a major dumping ground for cars at the last minute.
Thanks!!

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Post by Chris Iversen » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:38 am

Sebastien Leger wrote:
Chris Iversen wrote:Seb.

What time are you guys getting into Portland? I might be able to make something happen for you guys. We are driving down from Vancouver on the 16th (Thursday). We are planning to leave Vancouver in the morning, putting us there sometime in the afternoon. If we can time it right, we might have room for two in our vehicle. Us Canucks have to stick together right?

Shoot me an email:

chrisiversen@shaw.ca
Thanks for the help on this. Unfortunotly we are 3 + 2 board bag and you only have room for 2. It's all good I think I'm good to go with the car rental. Joe I and Rick gave me some good site to find great deal. Can wait to meet you!
JBH quote...Seb, you can take a bus from Portland to Hood River (and back!) for about 20 dollars. (You also have to take a metro train from the airport to a bus transfer station, but that's only about five bucks or less.)
Thanks JBH!
NP... See you there!
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Post by Pat Chewning » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:09 pm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39089904@N ... 770006436/

Did you see the medals and the overall awards at the event?

Did they match up to your expectations?

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Post by Rick Floyd » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:42 pm

Pat Chewning wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/39089904@N ... 770006436/

Did you see the medals and the overall awards at the event?

Did they match up to your expectations?
Absolutely perfect! Nice job with everything Pat - thanks again. It was so cool to be back in Hood for the first time since I lived there back in '88-'91.

-RF
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Post by Sebastien Leger » Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:03 pm

Pat Chewning wrote:http://www.flickr.com/photos/39089904@N ... 770006436/

Did you see the medals and the overall awards at the event?

Did they match up to your expectations?
Thanks for everything Pat! Great job last week-end!

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Hood River Rocks

Post by Bob Harper » Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:42 am

Pat
Great event
This was my first time racing Hood. It was great seeing old friends, and meeting new ones. I even hooked up with my Step Brother who I haven't seen for 13 yrs.
The racing was hot and the venue was spectacular. I hope I can make it next year. Thanks for the awesome weekend.
Bob

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