[2004] Region East Atlantic: Europe
Moderator: Hans Koraeus
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- Corky - World Ranking Supervisor
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Are those places distant enough to avoid hearing Etienne and Guillaume preposterous comments? If they are count me in...Hans Koraeus wrote:Peter, you forgot...
Zürich (Switzerland)
Riga (Latvia)
Stockholm (Sweden)
And to continue the world tour...
Bangkok (Thailand)
Tokyo (Japan)
Sydney (Australia)
Honolulu (USA)
Los Angeles (USA)
Las Vegas (USA)
New York (USA)
jean paul aka POPOL:
"I was born yesterday...
but I stayed up all night!"
"I was born yesterday...
but I stayed up all night!"
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- Etienne
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Who's supposed to be Stan is of little interest, as all your nacissic mummie's son's little judgments.Guillaume Olivieri wrote:Ordinarily, i'm rather proud to be French but ,man i'm so ashamed right now....a sissy boy and a retard; looks like Laurel & Hardy to me...
life's cruel sometimes you know...

it's cruel to be yourself to yourself only, Guillaume.

Jean-Paul,
Whatever you call it "speak white" english speaking is generally out of place on the internet. Your love of the academic Oxford idiom is nothing you should be ashamed of... but this is not the place to share it.
Would i be the lowest meanest person on earth, these comments are however off topic. There is a "Dark Side..." section where to spurt those.
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- Claude Regnier
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Morro Bay _Open Spot
Micheal you are dead wrong. It wasn't localism! It was bullshit.
Many Happy Pumps!
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- Octane Sport (RIP)
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Hans. I did not shout at any little girls at Morro Bay. Despite my 'reputation'.
You wernt there.
It was very nice of Jani, (who wasnt there either) to put his nose in where it wasnt wanted, or needed on NCDSA.
You are fully aware that when in Antibes it transpired I was wrong, I apologised straight away, and I regret having lost it there. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. I wish others were man enough too.
BTW I forgive easily too, in case your wondering. And I give credit where it is due as well. Remeber that and you might find I'm not that bad.
You wernt there.
It was very nice of Jani, (who wasnt there either) to put his nose in where it wasnt wanted, or needed on NCDSA.
You are fully aware that when in Antibes it transpired I was wrong, I apologised straight away, and I regret having lost it there. I have no problem admitting when I am wrong. I wish others were man enough too.
BTW I forgive easily too, in case your wondering. And I give credit where it is due as well. Remeber that and you might find I'm not that bad.
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- Corky - World Ranking Supervisor
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Michael,
I know that guy. He is a great guy. I know you a little. You are a great guy. Doesn't mean you don't flip out now and then. And maybe he did too. Competition stress is high both for racers and organizers. Not acceptable maybe but the reality. When races are over and things cool down the two great guys are back in normal. The race is over Michael. Don't let it get to you. Sure it got you scared. But so was that little girl at Morro. It's not personal, it's stress. I hope you can understand and that someone can explain that to that girl and other officials at competitions too.
I know that guy. He is a great guy. I know you a little. You are a great guy. Doesn't mean you don't flip out now and then. And maybe he did too. Competition stress is high both for racers and organizers. Not acceptable maybe but the reality. When races are over and things cool down the two great guys are back in normal. The race is over Michael. Don't let it get to you. Sure it got you scared. But so was that little girl at Morro. It's not personal, it's stress. I hope you can understand and that someone can explain that to that girl and other officials at competitions too.
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- Octane Sport (RIP)
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Now thats a great idea Etienne.
The thought of being able to complain to non-partisan judges has me salivating. I am, of course, not implying that judges are partisan at the moment. Its just your suggestion can elimanate any paranoid thoughts skaters might have. Like the fact a US skater was given the spare place at Morro on Sundays tight. It was percieved as localism by some racers.
Mind you, I hope the bearded wierdy 'official' guy who threatened me at Paris isnt actually allowed out of the country. In fact I hope his nurses dont let him out every weekend!
The thought of being able to complain to non-partisan judges has me salivating. I am, of course, not implying that judges are partisan at the moment. Its just your suggestion can elimanate any paranoid thoughts skaters might have. Like the fact a US skater was given the spare place at Morro on Sundays tight. It was percieved as localism by some racers.
Mind you, I hope the bearded wierdy 'official' guy who threatened me at Paris isnt actually allowed out of the country. In fact I hope his nurses dont let him out every weekend!
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- Etienne
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i'll beat you all sometime ! But probably not next season yetdonald campbell wrote:ah i see you're a keyboard racer
hahahahahahahahahaha

A purely utopic idea that goes thru my mind while reading Michael's post: what about judges exchanges ? european timer and cones judges in Morro Bay, US judges in Paris...
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- Octane Sport (RIP)
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I'd like to complain that my hotel in Antibes was 20m from the course. I find it unacceptable that a skater of my quality should have to cross a road to get to the race site.
Like wise, i'd like to complain about that big metal aerial that was constantly in veiw in Paris. When is the scaffolding ever going to come down?
Finally I'd like to complain that British races are orgainsed by british skaters, whats the fun in complaining if they can UNDERSTAND you? Thats no fun.
Like wise, i'd like to complain about that big metal aerial that was constantly in veiw in Paris. When is the scaffolding ever going to come down?
Finally I'd like to complain that British races are orgainsed by british skaters, whats the fun in complaining if they can UNDERSTAND you? Thats no fun.
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hmm, we're studying the question actually:That would be cool, for sure. we ain't got so many bad-ass/fancy-lookin' architectural shit as in Paris, but we do have some nice slalom spots and some nice skateparks .donald campbell wrote:what about marseille?
Fact: it never rains in summer.... sort of a Californian weather in a certain way...
So yeah, if you guys wanna help you'll be welcome.
Etienne : pretty please, with sugar on top, stop the fuckin jive, and jump on that skateboard...
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- Etienne
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donald campbell wrote:thank you,etienne,for proving your point and mine too.
i didn't want to get you in a typing frenzy.

donald campbell wrote:you'll see me and a few of my friends/team guys entering your race,make sure you bring some really good sparring partners.:lol:

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- Etienne
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donald campbell wrote:it is strange,but i can't shake the feeling off,that all you french guys try to push paris as much as possible.
is that so?

what are you supposed to interpret, that is the questiondonald campbell wrote:or am i just misinterpreting things?
allright, no need to say thendonald campbell wrote:saying that paris starts and morro ends the racing season sounds also very boring,sort of.
OK, you settle down there, get into some active longboard existing social life, federate local sleeping beauties old school champions together with those, start specialised importation/distribution/shop busyness from scratch, animate weekly sessions to get locals into slalom for a few years, and, if you are as lucky as i am, maybe all these people will offer their energy and skills for a competition, which, still with a bit of chance, will improve with time. Believe me, i'll do my best to help you.donald campbell wrote:why not try some new cities?
how about bringing something up in england.london maybe?
talk with the brits and try to arrange something new,something fresh.
i don't think that any city should have a "subscription" to host an event.
what about marseille?
Hope to see you in may, my fresh juniors need some sparing partners. 8)donald campbell wrote:don't get me wrong,but fresh air is always welcome and reviving.
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- Pavel
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it is strange,but i can't shake the feeling off,that all you french guys try to push paris as much as possible.
is that so?
or am i just misinterpreting things?
saying that paris starts and morro ends the racing season sounds also very boring,sort of.
why not try some new cities?
how about bringing something up in england.london maybe?
talk with the brits and try to arrange something new,something fresh.
i don't think that any city should have a "subscription" to host an event.
what about marseille?
don't get me wrong,but fresh air is always welcome and reviving.
is that so?
or am i just misinterpreting things?
saying that paris starts and morro ends the racing season sounds also very boring,sort of.
why not try some new cities?
how about bringing something up in england.london maybe?
talk with the brits and try to arrange something new,something fresh.
i don't think that any city should have a "subscription" to host an event.
what about marseille?
don't get me wrong,but fresh air is always welcome and reviving.
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- Etienne
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Yes I had just forgot the Euro championship was not in Koln ever. An Euro Championship halfway between the Baltic, Russians and Swiss looks fine to me.
As this major status seems somehow to anticipate a world tour, I am not sure one single competition should assume both status. But that is another, arguable, point.
Paris is called World Cup, which exactly expresses its transatlantic international ambitions, not World Championship.
The season ends in Morro B... The championship status of MB is not to be taken too litterally I guess, but it does end the season. (An outdoor race in Paris could not be scheduled after mid-september.)
So an opening major in May actually sounds perfect to me. This way Paris and Morro Bay draw a perfect basis for a forthcoming global tour.
As this major status seems somehow to anticipate a world tour, I am not sure one single competition should assume both status. But that is another, arguable, point.
Paris is called World Cup, which exactly expresses its transatlantic international ambitions, not World Championship.
The season ends in Morro B... The championship status of MB is not to be taken too litterally I guess, but it does end the season. (An outdoor race in Paris could not be scheduled after mid-september.)
So an opening major in May actually sounds perfect to me. This way Paris and Morro Bay draw a perfect basis for a forthcoming global tour.
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- Corky - World Ranking Supervisor
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Etienne,
If you are talking about the 2004 season Cologne was the choice because France had held the European championship and the Major status in 2003. The European championship should not be held in the same country two years in a row. The same goes for the Major status and even if there are no rules saying so this has been a consensus before.
Should the European championships always be the Major of the year? It has been so far but maybe there are cases where this is not a must. If someone would like to take on a World Championship it seems to me that it would be logical to give it the Major status and not the European championships. And even if there is no world champs in Europe maybe one could imagine separating the Major status and the European Championships. The problem with Paris is the timing. Don't misunderstand it. It is the perfect timing and event to kick off the season with but is it the perfect time for the most important and point desisive event of the year? There is a reason why world championships and European championships tend to be towards the end of the season.
Now, if it wasn't because of Paris this would not have been an issue. But since Paris has so many other good points it even balances this up. For 2005 everything is still open except for Germany that will not have the possibility for a European championships or a Major. I'm not personally against having Paris as a Major in 2005. But having a European championships or World championships in the middle of May will always feel strange to me. Just giving you my opinion. Everything is possible.
If you are talking about the 2004 season Cologne was the choice because France had held the European championship and the Major status in 2003. The European championship should not be held in the same country two years in a row. The same goes for the Major status and even if there are no rules saying so this has been a consensus before.
Should the European championships always be the Major of the year? It has been so far but maybe there are cases where this is not a must. If someone would like to take on a World Championship it seems to me that it would be logical to give it the Major status and not the European championships. And even if there is no world champs in Europe maybe one could imagine separating the Major status and the European Championships. The problem with Paris is the timing. Don't misunderstand it. It is the perfect timing and event to kick off the season with but is it the perfect time for the most important and point desisive event of the year? There is a reason why world championships and European championships tend to be towards the end of the season.
Now, if it wasn't because of Paris this would not have been an issue. But since Paris has so many other good points it even balances this up. For 2005 everything is still open except for Germany that will not have the possibility for a European championships or a Major. I'm not personally against having Paris as a Major in 2005. But having a European championships or World championships in the middle of May will always feel strange to me. Just giving you my opinion. Everything is possible.
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- Etienne
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i've just been rereading the whole topic: lots of people express the opinion that Paris is the most important event, nobody says Koln is more important than Paris. Seems hard to understand how Koln could be been choosen as major over Paris, certainly did not happen on this Forum !
So, like the priests say during weddings "- is there anyone who contests now ? if you have something to say, say it now !" : is there anyone here to defend that Köln is a bigger and a more important international event than Paris ?
So, like the priests say during weddings "- is there anyone who contests now ? if you have something to say, say it now !" : is there anyone here to defend that Köln is a bigger and a more important international event than Paris ?
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Hey guys, STOP it, the only ones allowed to rate the event are the competitors. I was in all but Antibes (unfortunately); I would have loved it I think, since I love France. I just want to clear something out. The accessibility to Paris over Antibes (It should still be run, great place, Pierre is GREAT, I love the guy) should make it France choice of Major/main event in 2005, see my view for the Euro races 2005. I stick by my opinion. Vive la France. Go schwizzzzzzzzz, unt du bist ok Hannover, själv ska jag försöka få Macster att hoppa så högt jag ber honom.
Dream locations of future major/main races.
LONDON
MOSCOW
PARIS always Paris
ROME
BARCELONA
LISBON
Dream locations of future major/main races.
LONDON
MOSCOW
PARIS always Paris
ROME
BARCELONA
LISBON
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- Etienne
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Stop teasing me you guys, this is not the Etienne de Bary topic ! 
If it is so, i'll go back to classical argumentation, and answer Pierre's point by point : 8)
2 Koln : Serious but smaller event, severe timer problems

If it is so, i'll go back to classical argumentation, and answer Pierre's point by point : 8)
1 Paris : Most ambitious event, enough time to face possible weather troubles, 2 rescue timing systems ready to be installed in a few minutes. Big organising team who all practice slalom on a serious amateur basis at least, backing Jani's experience.pierre samray wrote:That's why I think these 4 races might be the MAIN.
THESE RACES ARE : Paris, Grueningen, Koln, Antibes.
One of these 4 should be a major race.
I consider 11 points to make a choice : Organisation, the location, communication/media, level, racers, nations, history, public, road quality, why can it be a major, animation.
1) Organisation : experience of the organizer. Number of persons in the organization
1 Koln : I was not there but heard only good things about it.
2 Antibes : some trouble with the schedule and the rules I note and change this year.
3 Grueningen : some confusion on Saturday with lost results.
4 Paris : rain come and disturb the event , but organizer save it well.
2 Koln : Serious but smaller event, severe timer problems
Whatever you think, Venice San Marco Piazza being not available, Paris still seems to attract people from all over the world, sometimes they even bring their spouses. Toilet facilities in the Musée de la Marine upstairs, not to mention dozens of cafés of the Place du Trocadero. Possible improvement next year on that point (too early to swear.)pierre samray wrote: 2) The location :
1 Paris for the Eiffel Tower
2 Antibes for the sea and the beach
3 Koln for the forest
4 Grueningen
3) Accommodation for racers.
1 Grueningen : everything was perfect
2 Antibes : I'm looking after cheap place to stay this year
3 Paris : WC closed, staying in Paris expensive!
3ex Koln : No informations
1 Paris : professional PR Soizic working full time on the event, numbers of TV and radio broadcasts, important posters and flyers distribution, website of course, huge Riderz internet presence and association mobilisation.pierre samray wrote:4) Communication/Media
1 Grueningen / Antibes : internet site, event previous early in the season,
registration on line. TV, papers...
3 Paris : Internet site and Jani contact.
4 Koln : Good communication in Germany, not enough in Europe.
1 Paris : one of the best tarmac in the world ! Vlad says it's a crime not to ride it with 90a front AND rear.pierre samray wrote:7) History : what the place of this race in the slalom world.
1 Paris : Trocadero famous place since the seventees
2 Grueningen : 4th edition
Antibes : first race in 79, 4th edition this year
4 Koln : 2nd edition
8) Public : Is there any public.
1 Paris : Amazing!
2 Antibes, Koln and Grueningen : good, but can be better
9) Road quality :
1 Koln : perfect
2 Paris, Grueningen, Antibes (good)
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- Pavel
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Jean-Paul, we know you own a particular mastership of proper english speaking, a skill that will actually be rather useless on the internet.
orthographic and crammatical correctness comments, in whatever idiom are absolutely contrary to the"netiquette". all the same, an excessive use of capital, bold and big letters is considered gross.
i am sorry my use of sociological techniques, unusual here, might have been somewhat obscure... Yet this is mostly a problem of context, and it has been answered yet.
I could have made it shorter, but now it is done and if you take a minute to actually read it i am sure you will find it interesting. Well of course i stink just a bit, but nobody's perfect, that's life.

orthographic and crammatical correctness comments, in whatever idiom are absolutely contrary to the"netiquette". all the same, an excessive use of capital, bold and big letters is considered gross.
i am sorry my use of sociological techniques, unusual here, might have been somewhat obscure... Yet this is mostly a problem of context, and it has been answered yet.
I could have made it shorter, but now it is done and if you take a minute to actually read it i am sure you will find it interesting. Well of course i stink just a bit, but nobody's perfect, that's life.

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Ok here we go, I do have some point. I organize Surf and Skate events in Sweden, been competing internationally in Surfing and Skateboarding on both sides of the Atlantic since 1979.
In my book the status for the European competitions 2005 should stand something like below.
Paris - Major (If run like 2004, incl Jani).
Hannover - Main
Gruningen - Main
Stockholm - Main
To receive Major or Main status the event must provide Prize money, a start ramp, accurate timing system and coneheads over 10 years of age.
Log on, log in, log off
The KLANGSTER
In my book the status for the European competitions 2005 should stand something like below.
Paris - Major (If run like 2004, incl Jani).
Hannover - Main
Gruningen - Main
Stockholm - Main
To receive Major or Main status the event must provide Prize money, a start ramp, accurate timing system and coneheads over 10 years of age.
Log on, log in, log off
The KLANGSTER
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- Etienne
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Michael's charging up and down the raceline by his complaining inspiration was really part of the show in Antibes. I really had a great time there.
Corky doesn't mean to take all decisions by himself, (correct me if i'm wrong
) he expects us to take part in his improving that system by our comments.
The values of the European races has to be rediscussed now, and i bring useful (and strong) arguments, i guess, though my analysis may seem kind of abstract at first reading.
i have been physically and in person in Paris and Antibes (to my very big surprise i actually got points just for that !). i haven't been in Koln, but i have had loads of precise reports from the team. Therefore i request that you allow me to dare comparing those three.
i think Koln is a very important race, it is where the swiss and all the north european naturally meet, and that makes a main share of the good european racers actually, so it has the capacity to attract the french too. That easily makes it a genuine european championship, a main event indeed.
But it does not attract transatlantic racers, therefore it does not have the international representativity of Paris, which allows racers from both North/East Europe, including Italy of course, and the english speaking axe, to meet (where else do that happen, please tell me ???!!!)
-----
i also think the coefficient for frequentation is a bit high, while the average should be considered a little bit more.
These are my suggestion for 2005. 8)
Corky doesn't mean to take all decisions by himself, (correct me if i'm wrong

The values of the European races has to be rediscussed now, and i bring useful (and strong) arguments, i guess, though my analysis may seem kind of abstract at first reading.
i have been physically and in person in Paris and Antibes (to my very big surprise i actually got points just for that !). i haven't been in Koln, but i have had loads of precise reports from the team. Therefore i request that you allow me to dare comparing those three.

i think Koln is a very important race, it is where the swiss and all the north european naturally meet, and that makes a main share of the good european racers actually, so it has the capacity to attract the french too. That easily makes it a genuine european championship, a main event indeed.
But it does not attract transatlantic racers, therefore it does not have the international representativity of Paris, which allows racers from both North/East Europe, including Italy of course, and the english speaking axe, to meet (where else do that happen, please tell me ???!!!)
-----
i also think the coefficient for frequentation is a bit high, while the average should be considered a little bit more.
These are my suggestion for 2005. 8)
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- Pavel
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do you get extra points for complaining?
if so...i'm very good at it and also in stirring shit up.
on the complaining issue reg. races
complaining is cool and ok in my book,if the organizer or staff turn out to be complete dimwits.
bit if those people really try to give it their best shot-no sense in complaining at all.
i'll come to all the races in europe next year,i'm really looking forward to it.
besides your discussion,corky and etienne,especially,there's an outer,"real",world which differs from this forum.
i think you made your point etienne,but,since you really don't have any chance to change things which happen by mistake-accept em.
corky does his best to reflect on all complaints...but this is only a forum.
real life is and always will be different,see it from the sunny side of life.
go out there and race,meet friends,have a good time...
if so...i'm very good at it and also in stirring shit up.
on the complaining issue reg. races
complaining is cool and ok in my book,if the organizer or staff turn out to be complete dimwits.
bit if those people really try to give it their best shot-no sense in complaining at all.
i'll come to all the races in europe next year,i'm really looking forward to it.
besides your discussion,corky and etienne,especially,there's an outer,"real",world which differs from this forum.
i think you made your point etienne,but,since you really don't have any chance to change things which happen by mistake-accept em.
corky does his best to reflect on all complaints...but this is only a forum.
real life is and always will be different,see it from the sunny side of life.
go out there and race,meet friends,have a good time...
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- Etienne
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- Corky - World Ranking Supervisor
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So what you are saying is that Michael Stride had a very high "esteem" of the Paris organisation. I will tell him next time I see him. 
I can tell you that Cologne got its share of complaints too on place. If you were there your theory would prove that Cologne sure was a Major. As I said, what you see on the forum is not necessarily in balance with what is happening. You have to be there to know. And sometimes even that is not enough. You have to be at the right place at the right time to know.
I think you are right that a factor among all those I mentioned in my post and many others also are the expectation you have of the race.
What makes Americans choose to come to one European competition or another depends also on many factors. Why no Americans showed up in Cologne might have been simply because there were no lobbying for it. Having a bunch of Americans saying they want to come to your competition in Europe may be a factor to increase the chance of getting a higher status. But, how much that plays in together with all the other factors is impossible to say.
All I know is that we will have a vivid discussion for 2005 soon. As a matter of fact it has already started...

I can tell you that Cologne got its share of complaints too on place. If you were there your theory would prove that Cologne sure was a Major. As I said, what you see on the forum is not necessarily in balance with what is happening. You have to be there to know. And sometimes even that is not enough. You have to be at the right place at the right time to know.
I think you are right that a factor among all those I mentioned in my post and many others also are the expectation you have of the race.
What makes Americans choose to come to one European competition or another depends also on many factors. Why no Americans showed up in Cologne might have been simply because there were no lobbying for it. Having a bunch of Americans saying they want to come to your competition in Europe may be a factor to increase the chance of getting a higher status. But, how much that plays in together with all the other factors is impossible to say.
All I know is that we will have a vivid discussion for 2005 soon. As a matter of fact it has already started...
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- Etienne
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:00 am
- Contact:
I'll try to make it clearer
I am not considering the complains as so, nor their legitimacy.
i am using the complains as a tool. I am only comparing the level of request, the complains actually reveal what the riders are ready to tolerate, and by so the esteem the actually have for the organisation.
By the level of their demands, one can see very clearly, that all riders, mostly international riders, ever though they might actually think otherways, have actually elected Paris as the major European world size event.
Even though lots of riders think Koln, or whatever other race is on the same level as Paris, by comparing the complains you can see they came to Paris with higher expectations by the very high and precise level of their complains. On the contrary, they were rather tolerant in other races, which shows that they did not take the organisation very seriously at first, and so they quietly took things as they come and just took as much fun as they could.
On the other hand Paris crew was also more able to face the problems, but this is actually secondary, from my point of view.
i am using the complains as a tool. I am only comparing the level of request, the complains actually reveal what the riders are ready to tolerate, and by so the esteem the actually have for the organisation.
By the level of their demands, one can see very clearly, that all riders, mostly international riders, ever though they might actually think otherways, have actually elected Paris as the major European world size event.
Even though lots of riders think Koln, or whatever other race is on the same level as Paris, by comparing the complains you can see they came to Paris with higher expectations by the very high and precise level of their complains. On the contrary, they were rather tolerant in other races, which shows that they did not take the organisation very seriously at first, and so they quietly took things as they come and just took as much fun as they could.
On the other hand Paris crew was also more able to face the problems, but this is actually secondary, from my point of view.
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- Corky - World Ranking Supervisor
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Etienne,
It is not very clear what exactly you are trying to say. And I don't know where I come in to play with some sort of hierchy. If I had a very low self confidence I could take it as you are trying to say that it's my fault that there have been problems at competitions. I don't think that is what you want to say. If I had a very high self confidence I could take it that you think that I have a magic stich to wipe away all possible misadventures that can take place during competitions. I don't think that is what you think either.
Hmm. Instead of answering something I don't understand let me give you my view of the season regarding some of the words you are using.
This year I have been at the competitions in Paris, Grüningen, Cologne, Stockholm and Antibes. None of these have been able to be run as they where planned. Either because of weather, technical problems or organizing problems. The best concerning this in my view was Stockholm which had a delay because of rain all morning but anyway managed to pull it off almost according to plan. Does this mean Stockholm was the better than the other ones? Does it mean that Stockholm should have had a higher Status? No. I think the statuses was set perfectly as they where. The 4 Main competitions had the best and largest field of racers. And the Major was set at the latest of them possible, Cologne, since Antibes had it the year before.
Now it's true that when going to a Main or Major competition racers expect more. That is ok and correct. But it is also true that complaints and problems does not always correspond. There can be a competition with few problems and much complaint. There can be a competition with much problems and few complaints. This is beacuse complaining takes factors into account like own involvment, your own personality, friendships, no friendship, is it good for the sport, did I place well or not, did I have fun apart from the racing itself, how much did this competition cost me in time and money and you name it. Some organizers get away easy other doesn't. That is not fair. You bet it's not but that's tha way life is. With this knowledge you should be very careful using expressions like "international riders expect a quality level in Paris that is that of a Major world class event more or less equal to Morro Bay". The grass is always greener on the other side of the valley as they say. Unless you have been attending both Paris and Morro it is easy to fall in the pit.
If you think that Paris got too much complaints than what was fair compared to the others you might very well be right. This can also have something to do with that it was the first big competition of the year and that expectations where higher than normal. Looking at it afterwards myself I think I would still rank Paris as the best event of the year and I know many others would looking back in the mirror. Antibes was also a very nice event even if you include the flaws. It may be a paradox that with this result it looks like it is going to be hard for France to have more than one top status in 2005. But than again factors like spreading high statuses out geographicaly and in time does also play in. So does prize money and letting other organizers have a chance. Also when talking Major status I tend to think the later in the summer season the better.
But, there are no rules. Just open discussion as far as we can take it and then trying to make a decision. The earlier in the season the better so that people can plan holidays and get cheap air tickets.
I don't know if this helped you, Etienne, or if I am compleatly off line.
Sure we could start to set up rules about what to expect from different competitions with a specific status and so on. And there it goes off again, the ISSA bell. I here it ring louder and more frequently every time. But why change anything when everybody seems to be so happy about the current situation. Let's continue to treat people who want to talk about problems for a bunch of whiners. That is certainly the best way ahead.
It is not very clear what exactly you are trying to say. And I don't know where I come in to play with some sort of hierchy. If I had a very low self confidence I could take it as you are trying to say that it's my fault that there have been problems at competitions. I don't think that is what you want to say. If I had a very high self confidence I could take it that you think that I have a magic stich to wipe away all possible misadventures that can take place during competitions. I don't think that is what you think either.
Hmm. Instead of answering something I don't understand let me give you my view of the season regarding some of the words you are using.
This year I have been at the competitions in Paris, Grüningen, Cologne, Stockholm and Antibes. None of these have been able to be run as they where planned. Either because of weather, technical problems or organizing problems. The best concerning this in my view was Stockholm which had a delay because of rain all morning but anyway managed to pull it off almost according to plan. Does this mean Stockholm was the better than the other ones? Does it mean that Stockholm should have had a higher Status? No. I think the statuses was set perfectly as they where. The 4 Main competitions had the best and largest field of racers. And the Major was set at the latest of them possible, Cologne, since Antibes had it the year before.
Now it's true that when going to a Main or Major competition racers expect more. That is ok and correct. But it is also true that complaints and problems does not always correspond. There can be a competition with few problems and much complaint. There can be a competition with much problems and few complaints. This is beacuse complaining takes factors into account like own involvment, your own personality, friendships, no friendship, is it good for the sport, did I place well or not, did I have fun apart from the racing itself, how much did this competition cost me in time and money and you name it. Some organizers get away easy other doesn't. That is not fair. You bet it's not but that's tha way life is. With this knowledge you should be very careful using expressions like "international riders expect a quality level in Paris that is that of a Major world class event more or less equal to Morro Bay". The grass is always greener on the other side of the valley as they say. Unless you have been attending both Paris and Morro it is easy to fall in the pit.
If you think that Paris got too much complaints than what was fair compared to the others you might very well be right. This can also have something to do with that it was the first big competition of the year and that expectations where higher than normal. Looking at it afterwards myself I think I would still rank Paris as the best event of the year and I know many others would looking back in the mirror. Antibes was also a very nice event even if you include the flaws. It may be a paradox that with this result it looks like it is going to be hard for France to have more than one top status in 2005. But than again factors like spreading high statuses out geographicaly and in time does also play in. So does prize money and letting other organizers have a chance. Also when talking Major status I tend to think the later in the summer season the better.
But, there are no rules. Just open discussion as far as we can take it and then trying to make a decision. The earlier in the season the better so that people can plan holidays and get cheap air tickets.
I don't know if this helped you, Etienne, or if I am compleatly off line.
Sure we could start to set up rules about what to expect from different competitions with a specific status and so on. And there it goes off again, the ISSA bell. I here it ring louder and more frequently every time. But why change anything when everybody seems to be so happy about the current situation. Let's continue to treat people who want to talk about problems for a bunch of whiners. That is certainly the best way ahead.
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- Etienne
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:00 am
- Contact:
You should change this hierarchy, Korky
After a season of racing, it comes to a point where it seems that we have to reconsider which events are main and which is major.
We have all noticed that international riders in Paris have been little tolerant towards organising problems, such as: Jani had to switch from one timing system to another, or, then riders had to run over the tapeswitch and some did not, etc.
Meanwhile in all other main and major events, when there is several hours lasting timing crashes (only one system available), cone judges that do not know rules, judges unable to identitfy riders, cancelled or shortened races, terrible pavement, set-up not fitting discipline definition... everybody is actually quite cool... as a matter of fact it does not seem to matter so much to say things in a plain way.
Let's face up to the facts: international riders expect a quality level in Paris that is that of a Major world class event more or less equal to Morro Bay. The tension is extremely high, and the organisers manage to assume this level, while riders are much more tolerant in other competitions, and they have to.
We have all noticed that international riders in Paris have been little tolerant towards organising problems, such as: Jani had to switch from one timing system to another, or, then riders had to run over the tapeswitch and some did not, etc.
Meanwhile in all other main and major events, when there is several hours lasting timing crashes (only one system available), cone judges that do not know rules, judges unable to identitfy riders, cancelled or shortened races, terrible pavement, set-up not fitting discipline definition... everybody is actually quite cool... as a matter of fact it does not seem to matter so much to say things in a plain way.
Let's face up to the facts: international riders expect a quality level in Paris that is that of a Major world class event more or less equal to Morro Bay. The tension is extremely high, and the organisers manage to assume this level, while riders are much more tolerant in other competitions, and they have to.
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- Corky - World Ranking Supervisor
- Posts: 2075
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
Europe event statuses 2004
Unless I don't get hold of any more information these are the only European events that will get included in the world ranking for 2004. My intention is to have an updated ranking before the World Championships in Morro Bay.
[Major] European Championships [GS, TS] July 31 Cologne, Germany Contact: Axel Fischer
[Main] Paris Slalom World Cup [Special, Straight, GS] May 29 Paris, France Contact: Jani
[Main] Grüningen 2004 [TS, Special] Jun 19 Grüningen, Switzerland Contact: Jadranko Radovanovic
[Main] The Cone Festival [Straight, Special, Giant slalom] Sept 11 Antibes, France Contact: Pierre Samray
[Prime] Silverstone Grand Prix [Hybrid, TS, Super-T, GS] Jun 5 Silverstone, UK Contact: Chris Linford
[Prime] Baltic Slalom Cup [Special, Straight] July 10 Jurmala, Riga, Latvia Contact: Gints Gailitis
[Prime] Swedish Champs [Straight, Special, GS] Aug 28 Stockholm, Sweden Contact: Marcus Seyffarth
[Prime] Brands Hatch Classic [Special, TS, Super-T, GS, Super-G] Sept 18 Brands Hatch, UK: Chris Linford
[Basic] Monaco Cone 2004 [Special] April 24 Munich, Germany
[Basic] Valberg Slaloms [GS, TS] May 9 Valberg, Cote d'Azur/France Contact: Pierre Samray
[Basic] Lush Longboard Street Slalom [Super-T, TS, Straight] May 9 Sheffield, UK: Chris Lindford
[Basic] Slalom Brunch [Slalom] May 16 Zürich, Switzerland Contact: Chris Hart
[Basic] St Germain slalom & downhill freeride 2004 [TS, GS] Jun 19 Rennes, France
[Basic] Bude Classic [GS] July 3 Bude and Hayle, UK Contact: Chris Linford
[Basic] Eastbourne Flatland [Cyber, TS] July 25 Eastbourne, UK Contact: Chris Linford
[Basic] Latvia Open [Special, Straight] Aug 7 Jurmala, Riga, Latvia Contact: Gints Gailitis
[Basic] Pastended [Straight, Special] Sept 11 Pastendes, Latvia Contact: Gints Gailitis
Unless I don't get hold of any more information these are the only European events that will get included in the world ranking for 2004. My intention is to have an updated ranking before the World Championships in Morro Bay.
[Major] European Championships [GS, TS] July 31 Cologne, Germany Contact: Axel Fischer
[Main] Paris Slalom World Cup [Special, Straight, GS] May 29 Paris, France Contact: Jani
[Main] Grüningen 2004 [TS, Special] Jun 19 Grüningen, Switzerland Contact: Jadranko Radovanovic
[Main] The Cone Festival [Straight, Special, Giant slalom] Sept 11 Antibes, France Contact: Pierre Samray
[Prime] Silverstone Grand Prix [Hybrid, TS, Super-T, GS] Jun 5 Silverstone, UK Contact: Chris Linford
[Prime] Baltic Slalom Cup [Special, Straight] July 10 Jurmala, Riga, Latvia Contact: Gints Gailitis
[Prime] Swedish Champs [Straight, Special, GS] Aug 28 Stockholm, Sweden Contact: Marcus Seyffarth
[Prime] Brands Hatch Classic [Special, TS, Super-T, GS, Super-G] Sept 18 Brands Hatch, UK: Chris Linford
[Basic] Monaco Cone 2004 [Special] April 24 Munich, Germany
[Basic] Valberg Slaloms [GS, TS] May 9 Valberg, Cote d'Azur/France Contact: Pierre Samray
[Basic] Lush Longboard Street Slalom [Super-T, TS, Straight] May 9 Sheffield, UK: Chris Lindford
[Basic] Slalom Brunch [Slalom] May 16 Zürich, Switzerland Contact: Chris Hart
[Basic] St Germain slalom & downhill freeride 2004 [TS, GS] Jun 19 Rennes, France
[Basic] Bude Classic [GS] July 3 Bude and Hayle, UK Contact: Chris Linford
[Basic] Eastbourne Flatland [Cyber, TS] July 25 Eastbourne, UK Contact: Chris Linford
[Basic] Latvia Open [Special, Straight] Aug 7 Jurmala, Riga, Latvia Contact: Gints Gailitis
[Basic] Pastended [Straight, Special] Sept 11 Pastendes, Latvia Contact: Gints Gailitis