"vlad" cones

Mark McCree · Post by **Mark McCree** » Tue May 20, 2003 1:37 am

VLAD, I set up one of your courses on the overpass in West Palm last weekend. 93 cones.

They are what we are used to.

SOOOOOOOO You are going to Breck-huh?

Better bone up on those clean runs- the cone count will kill ya.

It will be great to see you.

McCree

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Sat May 17, 2003 11:51 pm

Fron teh tight slalom forum

Posted: 2002-09-25 01:58 A "hip ripper" is when you set a Gilmourian curve and have one of the "outside" cones on that curve stick out further to the outside- this forces the skater to re-think his line as normally the skater would attempt to keep his hips inside the curve- but this stray cone "rips" the hips out to the outside temporarily and the skater has to fight to bring it back in (resulting is some really stretched out body contortions) depending on where you put "the Ripper" either early in the curve or later really affects the body position.

In order to have this be effective the curve has to typically have more than 8 cones to it so momentum is established.

So the Peak Zit on the curve is a hip ripper- because it rips your hips out of hte line of the curve. It is most vicious if set slightly after the peak of the curve- extreme angulation needed.

As for "Gilmourian curves". That term I think was coined by Hester. I set them many years ago on highwayhill I was 11- (so that is 1974) (now called Cat hill) in Central Park in NYC because it curves.

But true doccumented credit goes to Keith Hollien who had a video a few years back and shows his "titty" course which is all curves. The Gaphics on the Video refer to it as a titty course- but it is far more extreme than the simple curves I would set. So if you set a course that has curves that resemble a gra- It is "Hollien's Voluptuous Curves".

I could just see a course next year- that has mirrored cones one each course and the outline from above looks like Carmen Electra. lol.

I'm not having fun slaloming unless I set a course which is fast and unmakeable at speed- and it takes me a few slow runs before I can even make it- and then you CAREFULLY up the throttle......and keep you skin off the road surface.

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-05-17 17:54 ]

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Fri May 16, 2003 3:00 am

From the mouths of babes comes true and indisputable wisdom!!

Let all slalom skateboarders rejoice!

Henry Julier · Post by **Henry Julier** » Fri May 16, 2003 2:53 am

Brady, this is slalom skateboarding.

You cannot Ollie cones.

ESPECIALLY the Henry cone!

EVEN OLLIE DOESNT OLLIE THE CONES!

[ This Message was edited by: Henry Julier on 2003-05-15 22:01 ]

Brady Mitchell · Post by **Brady Mitchell** » Fri May 16, 2003 2:28 am

Ah,,,the Henry cone??

If I can`t make it and can`t afford the penalty, can I OLLie it? Does it then become the "OLLie" cone? Just lemme see how you judge which side I entered, or lept the side of the cone from...heh heh!!

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu May 15, 2003 10:00 pm

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome the Henry cone! This one is for criddling only, there is no way you can skate around it!

Henry Julier · Post by **Henry Julier** » Thu May 15, 2003 9:35 pm

A cone name after MOI??

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu May 15, 2003 8:47 pm

Henry, you didn’t get the point of that shot!

It’s supposed to be presented like that:

If you wish for the critical cone on the Gilmourian curve to be named after you (following Trahan’s new methodology), please repost the correct perspective.

Keep in mind that the Henry cone is gonna be unmakable no matter what for the reasons known.

Vlad.

Henry Julier · Post by **Henry Julier** » Thu May 15, 2003 8:14 pm

If you stack a bunch of Vlad cones together they will soon be higher than one Henry cone.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:57 pm

Noah,

Amature class is for those who can't do it
1. YET
2. ALREADY

But PRO sounds silly because most people who are PROs are loosing money instead of making money. And slalom is not, like, a job...

Which class to choose?

Gilmourian critical cones are now called MORRIS cones.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:52 pm

Here is another idea.

Adam randomized moderators for the Random subject forum. Why not take this new “Trahan’s” approach to the Gilmourian-course cones?

It’s been known as Noah cone for sometime now, but it is BP cone from now on.

Brian Morris · Post by **Brian Morris** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:50 pm

Those Vlad cones were tough. I'm aching like hell after bailing once on the Vlad section, and smashing the other elbow on the Gilmorian Curve.

Brian

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:49 pm

The Gilmourian curve critical cone is now called Noah cone.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:48 pm

Hmmmmm,

"Vlad Cones"
"O'Shei Offsets"
"Gilmourian Curves"

What's ironic is that Brian Parsons sets the best courses!

Noah Heinle · Post by **Noah Heinle** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:41 pm

races for amatures ARE jam sessions

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:35 pm

That one cone that sticks out in the middle (usually) of the Gilmourian curve and makes you extend beyond the limits... Is it a Gilmourian cone? Coz if the name isn't taken, I'm naming it! How about UR13 cone? Terry cone? Tway cone?

One thing I learned at ncdsa is to disrespect the past and not to give credits where they are due. Who cares about preGilmorian times?

I'm yet to see or hear of anyone besides Gilmour setting up and riding Gilmorian courses with Gilmourian curves. They are the fastest and most technical courses I've been on. "Vlad's cones" isn't for real. They are just offsets and transfers. I think it's just a Hybrid course. Or call it a special case of a Hybrid course. Or a special case of a Special slalom. Or Special slalom. Who cares.

As long as Gilmourian courses and curves are set exclusively by Gilmour, I say the label is his.

Any board is good on tech courses as long as it's narrow enough and its wheelbase is reasonable. I know a guy who intends to put up-to-an-inch labels on wheelbases depending on the course. But it's gonna be the same type of deal as we had with "what is tight slalom?” I ride a piece of plank with no flex. It has a direct response, but it doesn't store any energy like a camber, and it doesn't release it consequently. Not much help on wide/er gates. Superb feel on tighter straighter courses, though. The risers prevent wheelbite and allow the rider to take a faster line, because on TechSl courses every inch around the cones counts. I hope it's easy to understand why you can get much closer to the cones when you use risers. It has everything to do with the conical shape. And clearance.

Flex would help on offsets. Response would help on wider gates. Luca didn't have any of these and offten no one came close.

Vlad.

PS.
TK,
so I nailed the "FCR cones" without even skating FCR courses? Good!

PPS. I'm happy that people have seen the light.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:19 pm

So I slalomed the other day in the Arboretum- alone. First time I have skated alone in a long time. I set a few tighter wide offsets at speed. Of course the whole Jani move was very helpful to handle them.

In Vlads case those gates are hit with speed- lots of speed, so you can use an entirely different type of body angulation to handle them. In O'Sheins cones you have little speed and so you don't have the centripedal acceleration to hold you up to do a Jani type move. Also O'shei cones are SOOOOOOo wide you can't even bother to angulate around them- you must steer your whole body around the cone- your hips can not continue to face downhill with such wide offsets.....unless you have lots of speed- and then traction is paramount. Dunn did very well handling offsets at speed in Battle by the Bay single track- he used centripedal acceleratin to hold his hips near the middle of the course while he lightly steered the board around the large offsets with his ankles. That same move would be impossible at the top of the course.

Vlad set a fun course where it was challenging. Good to see everyone is thinking about those type of cones.

I would like to see more of a jam type session for techSL courses that way riders are more free to experiement and learn while racing.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:06 pm

On 2003-05-15 11:59, Jack Smith wrote:
Gilmorian curves?

Gee, I wonder what Hester, myself and others called these in the 70's?

It's so long ago that I have forgotten.

hahahaha....

"pre-gilmourian curves"?

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Thu May 15, 2003 5:59 pm

Gilmorian curves?

Gee, I wonder what Hester, myself and others called these in the 70's?

It's so long ago that I have forgotten.

Noah Heinle · Post by **Noah Heinle** » Thu May 15, 2003 5:14 pm

I don't think the board is as important for this kind of stuff as HEIGHT is. I'm hittin' the tops those last few offsets with my shins/calfs. This is why Vlad uses 7" of riser under each truck...or so he says...

Chris Eggers · Post by **Chris Eggers** » Thu May 15, 2003 4:58 pm

VLad will say his ugly board is the best, I haven´t tried them, but a Fibreflex light is a very good tight slalom technical board set up with indy 101 (offset in the back) or RTX and Powell blue hardcore bushings and Cambrias.
Personal taste though.

Jim Siener · Post by **Jim Siener** » Thu May 15, 2003 4:33 pm

Vlad, could you give us a board setup you think is ideal for this type of course? Deck, trucks, wheelbase, wheels? Anyone else please chime in, I think we all would like to know what could rip on these courses since we will probably see more of them this summer.

Terry Kirby · Post by **Terry Kirby** » Thu May 15, 2003 4:13 pm

Vlad cones are nothing more than O'shea Offsets at the other end of the course.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu May 15, 2003 4:11 pm

Vlad....I know others have said this. But that dual course was probably one of the best courses I have ever ridden. I would also say it was one of, if not the best, course I have ever raced "duals" on.

I just wish I had the correct board instead of a GS deck. It won't happen again.

Oh and making the last few vlad cones....the only way I did it was to baby the section ahead of it, slow as death!

AND FCR tribute cones....you got it all wrong. You need to add the three sick offsets at the start of the course so you scrub all your speed at the top....

[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-05-15 10:15 ]

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu May 15, 2003 6:41 am

I’m not sure if there is anything special about these cones. But I think the vast majority of people liked that racecourse I set on Sunday.

Here’s a story and a course layout. I’m tired, I need to sleep, so I’ll probably add/edit tomorrow. But I feel awkward when my name is mentioned and I don’t respond…

On Saturday at the end of the day I moved some cones around, offset here and there, transfer, curve, tight, loose, rhythm, a really short course. Basically, the entire TS slalom (that 5ft Red one) upper course section was reworked, while 6+ feet gates at the end remained attached. After a couple of runs and a couple of modifications made to make sure one MUST slide in some gates at full speed, Florida boys tried it out. Keith said that it was exactly the type of courses that they used to run in Florida. What a coincidence! Nothing unusual, really, as we are all humans, and some of us just know what the fun courses are. I’m sure the British run fun courses, even though I’ve never seen their courses, but I read a lot about them (saw some pictures too).

So, on Sunday during a break we’re deciding on the next race. The Florida team and others ask me to set a dual course. I took the assignment pretty seriously as it is an actual racecourse, not just some practice exercise. I calculated the position of every single cone. The first series were 6 ft straights for getting/controlling the entree speed. Then some 7 ft with 0.5 ft offsets, then 8s with 1 ft offsets, then straights (for gaining/scrubbing speed depending on condition/desire), then a transfer, then straights, a transfer back, a mellow curve, a transfer and an FCR-tribute section- sick GS offsets that look unmakable (with a naked eye). A little **** you at the end. Think you can cruise or pump your way to the finish line? Think again! And do that Jani move! There were 3 sections in the course to match the 3 slopes of that hill. At least that was the idea.

After I dropped the cones they were circled and no modifications were made. This course was set absolutely "blindly". Chris Chaput tried to run it when it was half done, but his board wasn’t really fitting. Keith kept everyone with suggestions and complains away from me, so I could concentrate on the job. I kept everything the way it was first set. Untouched.

Chris Stepanek runs the course and curses at the offsets. I smiled. BrianP and Ohm (?) fall. I felt guilty, but many people cheered, so I hoped it was still fun. The course seemed a bit slow for that hill, but with time people started skating it at full throttle, and in the race UR13 ended up skating the last 4 offsets better then me (I missed those gates twice! In the race!)

This is the kind of slalom I like and these are the courses I’d like to see more often in the SERIOUS competitions. Be it GS or TS. Every gate has a meaning. I don’t want to extrapolate and speak greatly of myself. But I’ve noticed that good skaters set good courses. And vice versa. Good courses are usually set by good skaters. You draw your conclusions.

I liked my course very much. And I liked the fact that I haven’t moved any cones after they were dropped, and I especially liked the fact that I’m not alone in my desire and ability to skate TechSL. We can as well start the East Coast Slalom Empire! With Gilmorian curves, "my" cones and (your input here)

Vlad.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu May 15, 2003 5:46 am

So the term "a Gilmourian curve" is pretty much accepted in the vocabulary of course setting. Some of us can refer to a "gilmour section" (insanely technical section) of a course.....but now I and a few others find ourselves using the term "vlad cones"....those being insanely offset yet tight'ish cones, usually at the end of the course or at the max speed areas.

Example;

Noah and I were skating tonight on one of Noah's sweet hills. I set a course, mixed 6-9' with offsets and hips and a Gilmour section....but found myself setting 3 REALLY offset cones at the bottom, ones you not only have to throw you feet out for but line your hips up for too. Noah asked what they were. I said "Vlad cones"...Noah laughed and agreed.

I overheard people at the gathering refering to certian areas of a course as a Vlad area too. GIlmour and Vlad areas....

Vlad your famous!

[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-05-14 23:48 ]

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