2010 ISSA Membership

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Gary Fluitt
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2010 ISSA Membership

Post by Gary Fluitt » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:19 pm

ISSA 2010

The new ISSA Board of Directors has been hard at work since the December election, figuring out how we can improve slalom – for both racers and race organizers. You may have heard about some changes. We'd like to spell those out here and let you know what's up for 2010.

New focus

In recent years the ISSA was focused on providing structure: rules, rankings and sanctions. A necessary foundation for sure, but now we want to focus on benefits – benefits for the racer and the race organizer. The ISSA has gone as far as it can go as just a loosely organized website/social network with a rule book and endless discussions. It's time for the ISSA to do something more.

Funding

Racers and organizers have asked the ISSA for numerous benefits and improvements via posts on the slalomskateboarder.com forum and in personal conversations and e-mails. We are committed to providing as many of these benefits as we can. However, providing these benefits will cost money. We intend to pursue funding from sponsors, but it will not provide all the money we need.

So in 2010, we will begin charging an annual fee for ISSA membership. Racers in Main and Major ISSA-sanctioned events in 2010 will be required to join the ISSA and pay this fee. The fee will be $25 USD (€20) if you pre-pay before going to your first race. If you choose to pay at your first race, the fee will be slightly higher: $30 USD (€25). The PayPal address for membership dues is issa@slalomskateboarder.com.

We encourage everyone to become a member of the ISSA, but it is only required for racers in the Main and Major events. All other event levels have no membership requirements. Basic, Plain, Prime, grass roots, invitational and outlaw races are all good for the sport, and we encourage these also. If you want to throw one of these events, let us know how we can help. We've done them all, and we encourage you to do so also.

Individuals who do not enter a Main or Major event in 2010 may also join the ISSA for 2010 by paying the membership fee, which will give them access to ISSA member forums and allow them to vote in ISSA elections in December 2010. For these “non-racing” members, membership dues for the 2010 calendar year must be paid by the registration deadline of the last sanctioned Main or Major event. Any current members who have not renewed their dues by this deadline will be dropped from ISSA membership and will not be able to vote in ISSA elections or access the ISSA member forums unless they renew their membership in 2011.

What are we going to do with the money?

The ISSA will use the money to pay for things like race insurance, the world ranking system, physical timing systems, marketing and promotions, upgrading and revising slalomskateboarder.com and helping race organizers with permits, registration, logistics and race costs.

Racer benefits

• World rankings will be managed by the ISSA. Thanks to the excellent work of Hans “Corky” Koraeus and other volunteers, the 2010 rankings will be part of your membership and will be updated every month.
• Points will actually matter: Racers with top points in each category will be recognized and awarded the coveted ISSA Championship Belt at the conclusion of the season.
• Recognition: Beginning with the Spring 2010 issue, the ISSA will have two pages in every issue of Concrete Wave magazine. Thanks to Michael Brooke, we'll be showing off the hottest racers in 2010.
• Racer discounts: Manufacturers are signing up to give ISSA members discounts on product. Details later on this racer benefit.
• Insurance: ISSA races will be provided race and racer insurance. This will help grow the race scene, providing more race opportunities for you.

Organizer benefits

• Insurance will be provided for ISSA-sanctioned races. This is the biggest hurdle in N. America to getting a road closure permit.
• Media coverage as part of the Concrete Wave ISSA coverage.
• Timing system: ISSA race organizers can use an ISSA timing system (dual-lane wired TrackMate 3) and timing spreadsheets.
• Mailing list: Market your race to the ISSA membership
• ISSA Rep assistance at race. We aim to have an ISSA board member or rep at every Main and Major ISSA race to help with logistics.
• Organizer assistance: From permits to road closure plans, to race-running tips, we're here for the race organizer. Let us help.
• Sponsor dollars: As part of an international package of races, sponsor dollars that flow into the ISSA will be used to help run your events.
• Marketing assistance: This includes website development, graphic design, T-shirt design and advertising. We have resources that can help race organizers.
• Points management: We will take results and get your event's points into the rankings for member racers.

Right now there is a unique collection of energized volunteers trying to do something new with the ISSA. We hope you're as stoked about the future of slalom as we are. And we look forward to an excellent season of racing with you. If you have any questions or concerns, please post your comments and discussions here, or contact any member of the ISSA board of directors below.

Gary Fluitt, President: fluitt@mac.com
Dan Gesmer, Vice President: seismicsk8@aol.com
Jonathan Harms, Treasurer: jbh123@gmail.com
Wesley Tucker, Secretary: Wtucker567@aol.com
Joe Iacovelli: iaco@att.net
Peter Klang: peterklang@telia.com
Joe McLaren: mclaren650@msn.com

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Post by Miguel Marco » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:26 pm

Some new members, like me, paid their fee in december 2009 so they could vote. Does it mean we have to pay again for 2010?

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Post by Guillaume Saint-Criq » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:31 pm

First of all, congrats to the BOD for their work...
I am happy to see changes coming in the ISSA and will be a proud ISSA member...
See all my coming points as feedback, i only want to be constructive, and i repeat i will be proud to be ISSA member

Some question already appear :

- as a racer, how will i prove my membership to Main/Major organizers?
Will i have "number" , a member card, or something like that?

- as an organizer (MEZE SLALOM 2010, Prime), i hear your talk about insurance...
But here in France, each slalom event MUST be covered by insurance provided by our NATIONAL Association.
I think this insurance stuff will be really specific to each country and it seems to be difficult to apply to all of us
(this problem should be solved if every country can make a national slalom association, raising funds from their national members -giving a % to the international structure- and dealing with insurance at the national level... ISSA then must be a association of associationS)

- as an organizer too, how can i profit from a timing system wich is in US, or Brasil?
Will ISSA take in charge sending it to me?
If not, it seems it will cost me half a brand new Trackmate in shipping cost :D...

- i am sad not seeing make the ISSA a real non profit organisation in short terms goals : it seems it was a money problem (lawyer fees etc etc) but if you raise funds from membership, why not make this a priority?
And who will deal with the ISSA paypal account?

but once again, congrats, we are moving !

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Post by Gary Fluitt » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:41 pm

Guillaume,
Thanks for your comments and suggestions. To answer some of your questions.

1. How will the organizer know your bib number?
We're hoping to hook the world ranking database to a contest registration application, so the organizer would have these numbers when you sign up. This might not be in place for early season 2010, so we'll work out a low tech means of communicating this to race organizers until the system is set up.

2. Local Insurance - we recognize that in country insurance requirements will prevent the current policy from being useful to all countries. In the meantime, this ISSA policy is providing insurance to maybe half the races globally. Some races don't require insurance at all where the country does not require it. We realize this benefit is not for all countries.

3. Timing system - We'll send it to you. Or have someone bring it to you. We haven't worked out the logistics on that. It seems to be a popular feature, so we will likely need to reserve it in advance. In the states we have had skaters from different regions shuttle the timer around and then it costs nothing and is pretty secure. When is your race?

4. Non-profit - we're not even incorporated yet, so the way we understand it, you must be incorporated first before you can become non-profit. But that is the goal for 2011 (non-profit status).

Thanks for your thoughts and encouragement for progress!
Last edited by Gary Fluitt on Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wesley Tucker
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:43 pm

Miguel Marco wrote:Some new members, like me, paid their fee in december 2009 so they could vote. Does it mean we have to pay again for 2010?
Mig,

I'm not speaking out of turn here. I specifically addressed the question of the 2010 SITE SPONSORS, of which you/Fullbag are one of twelve.

All of these 12 sponsors are 2010 members.

What we are tentatively planning for 2011 is specifying SS.com sponsorship will be separate from 2011 ISSA membership.

Yeah, we're gonna ask a few folks next year to cough up fifty large.
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Post by Guillaume Saint-Criq » Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:51 pm

thank you for answer Gary

i really hope the BOD will think about this federal structure... i think it s the best way to go (it will allow national independant budget), and it s the way it works in many other sports.

About the timer I don't need it for my race (at least this year), thanks!
We (France) already have at least 2 trackmate turning around (1 owned by ConeRacing, 1 owned by Riderz association)

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Post by Ricardo Damborenea » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:01 pm

I'm with Guillaume. It's very difficult to govern a decentralized sport with a centralized governance. Most developed sports have a country based, association of associations structure. It allows for faster decission making & more sources of financing, both for ISSA and for events.
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Claude Regnier
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Post by Claude Regnier » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:10 pm

As discused years ago each country should have their own slalom association. ISSA represents slalomers around the world as a whole.

In time ISSA would likely want to have timers available around the world to make sure races are easier to on.
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Post by Guillaume Saint-Criq » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:27 pm

ISSA must only federate and help creating more national associations.
For the ISSA, more national associations must mean much money...
Benefits from the ISSA must be for national structures, not for individuals

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Post by Gary Fluitt » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:34 pm

Guillaume,
I think National associations are a good thing for the reasons you mentioned, and we will get there, perhaps even this season. There is no reason you should not pursue this for France and we can use that as a model for other regions. What can we do to help?
Gary

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:40 am

Reminds me of the schema I did some 5 years ago for... Skateboard and Slalom Assocoations.

It would have been interesting for ISSA to gather info of how far different countries have come in their skateboard association development. That other could then use as means to move forward on their own homeground.

- What countries have national skateboard associations?
- How many of those are connected to national sport associations?
- What other sport association has skateboard integrated into itself? Or parts of it...
- Does slalom have any part in these associations?
- Is there any economic support for skateboard at all?
- Is there any economic support for slalom?

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Post by Greg Ambler » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:03 am

ASRA (Australian Skateboard Racing Association) here in Australia was originally made due to the increase and popularity of Slalom. More prody was brought in from overseas and the raise of the sport became second to none for a few years. We had a load of memberships which enabled us to hold a series of events but found it hard to grow any further than that. But as we were a "Racing Association" standup and luge (forseen from the start) crept in creating more memberships and interest into slalom and ASRA itself. This created even more product being imported to Aust and a need for a specialty slalom and downhill shop and online purchasing. The popularity of downhill has now pretty much taken over, in such a way that meets occur quite often and the organization of downhill comps are slowly on the rise. Insurances have not become a problem and there is no lack of enthusiasm towards the help needed or running of an event. We now have held a second and very successful Newtons Playground that runs for a few days and along with it a slalom comp. As a result of the first success of NP the government offered to part fund NP2009WC which aloud us to fulfill a total commitment to the event. It kind of sets up slalom very nicely, but... slalom has taken a back seat the last 18 mths or so. We are still holding our annual Conehead Cup race series which has now expanded into other states and has brought newbies and seen the raise of many a fast man become even faster but i fear that 2010 could see a slight decline in its popularity, we'll have to wait and see. The answer lies from what i believe, is in youth. Fix or find the secret behind that one and the problem is solved. End of story!

Australia's slalom population as apposed to the States and Europe is very small, by % maybe its close, i dont know? Though if it were not for the downhill sector of ASRA i im sure that we would be struggling with funding events, forcing us to hold outlaw events only, scraping up $$ from entry fees and throwing on BBQ's which in turn is just enough to get you through.

Im not sure about a Global Association thing and giving a %. Its tight enough now getting people to cough up cash and any money that is profited, well it just goes back into the sport. That would be a tough call. Probably an unfair one.

Perhaps an expansion similar to what has happened here in Australia with ASRA, it could be worth looking into? People bring money and freedom will follow.

You guys at ISSA have put in a lot of hard work over the years to keep the association together and have done a fine job but as the years change we have to move with it, and that just means more hard work.

Greg Ambler
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Post by Ricardo Damborenea » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:47 am

- What countries have national skateboard associations?

Spain: We don't have a national one but several regional ones. Ours is Madrid Old Skool Skaters (MOSS - 80 paying members), the largest. I'm the founder and vice-president.

- How many of those are connected to national sport associations?

None. But all are incorporated under national and regional sports associations rules and registered in official registers.

- What other sport association has skateboard integrated into itself? Or parts of it...

None. In the past it's been associated to skating and surfing. Downhill being promoted by FDI, a gravity sports association.

- Does slalom have any part in these associations?

Yes. MOSS is the most active. We have a section that organizes Spanish Championship and local races (7 this year).

- Is there any economic support for skateboard at all?

Not specific, but plenty of local and regional funds available for sports activities and events. We are negotiating some support for races and for racers travelling abroad to compete.

- Is there any economic support for slalom?

See above.
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Jean-Sébastien Dennebouy
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Post by Jean-Sébastien Dennebouy » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:16 am

In France as we already explained (and after we did i heard the word "communist" if i'm remember well :)) the slalom skateboard along with the downhill gravity sports (longskate, streetluge, buttboard, roller skating) and the mountainboard are followed by a French Federation : FFRS.
And to gather all the donwhill sports together, the CND website.
It's the same thing in football, tennis, watersports, handball, etc, etc.

So all of the associations in France when they are created are registered first to the state. And after that in order to protect yourself, to an insurance company. Either an independant contract in the company of your choice, or to the Federation of your sport (which also provide insurance).

The cost of an individual insurance is about 140€ per year here, but at the first crash the company leave you by yourself... (i tested it)
The FFRS's insurance is cheaper (at least at the beginning) and reliable, they even refund money for hardware broken during a crash.

So the registration to the FFRS is not compulsory, but we need it to validate at least the French Championship and obtain help from the administration, citys (closed road, hardware or money). And to have a efficient insurance.


I have a few questions :

Don't you wondered about sanctioning the events instead of the riders ? (as the IGSA does, also known in other sports).
Giving money is a more easy thing to do when you are an organizer and you just have to raise the fees of the riders.

Another question, as i asked it to Jani sometimes : Does the ISSA have been officially regognized, registered in a country ?

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:34 pm

Jean Sebastien,

The BOD debated this topic for two months, both live via confernce call and in email. We decided there was no one perfect option, but that we needed to act and make some changes. It was important to us to try and make a step forward, even though we knew we could not please everyone.

As far as the membership fee goes versus a race organizer fee, I can tell you my perspective as a member of the BOD, an organizer of two larger (fifty plus skaters) and longstanding events (The Farm will turn 10 this year and Antrim 5), and also as a skater.

While slalom seems alive and well, with more skaters interested than maybe any other time in history, most of the races are continuing to be held by long standing groups or individuals. In general permits, insurance, haybales, fencing, and prize purses mean going into ones own pocket to make the race happen and somehow that money never gets realized back.

In my opinion putting a sanctioning fee on top of that burden is a good way to make sure that we have less races, or less ISSA races. I personally saw the 20 euro per member fee a good way of spreading this cost around, a little bit on a lot of people. It also has the added benefit of making sure that you are a registered participant when it comes to tracking points, and that it collects all members in one large group. Large groups are easier to market for vendor discounts and sponsorships.

Joe

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Post by Robert Gaisek » Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:46 pm

I will pay some more if I get a patch and a sticker.

Will you put up a list in time for the next payment? I find it hard to remember stuff like this........last time I payed two times.............bummer. ;)
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:03 pm

I've updated the member listing to reflect who's paid for 2010:

http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=6638

I'll keep this updated as payments come in AND as new members are added to the rolls. No one will be deleted from the rolls until after the last Main or Major of this calendar year.

Also, I'll do my best to play around with my FileMaker application and do what I can get the memberlist online as a searchable database. This way you can go to a link, type your name and determine your current status. Don't badger me about this feature, though, because I have got a LOT to learn in the next couple of weeks about doing the deed.
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Peter Harnischmacher
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Post by Peter Harnischmacher » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:24 am

Hello Issa team, we Bärliner slalomfu''ke# are the fastest growing slalomskatboarding community in Europe!
Pavel, GOG, and Concrate Wave have supported us last 2 years up here!
sure even the ISSA forum helped a little bit!
Now we are a nationally recognized association, which would use the Issa + berliner-kurvenrollsportler from each other?
We ourselves are working on sponsorship contracts...ect....!

sorry for my native english!

cheers prikel

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:52 am

Prikel,

Maybe we met in Dusseldorf two years ago? I met a bunch of guys from Berlin.

I'm interested in how all our associations can help each other. I agree that in the future we might have regional and national associations all under the ISSA.

In 2004 I used my USA beer sponsor to help get a beer sponsor for the Paris race. That is how it should work with all skaters helping each other.

We at the board of directors welcome your ideas and offers of help.

Joe

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:22 pm

Joe Iacovelli wrote:In 2004 I used my USA beer sponsor to help get a beer sponsor for the Paris race. That is how it should work with all skaters helping each other.
Many thanks Joe! We really appreciated your help! That relationship was really beneficial to our organization and it lasted many years. Now we're on halt with the Paris race, but it wouldn't surprise me if someone (like the inline skaters) are still benefiting from this sponsorship.

/Jani

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Post by Petr Janousek » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:47 pm

BOD doesn’t understand our problems. We (Europeans) can’t pride ourselves as good as American people. Suggestions of BOD will divide slalom racers into two groups. 1st group will pay to ISSA for membership and they will attend slalom contests Major (World and European Championships) and Main (World Cups). 2nd group will not pay to ISSA for membership. ISSA will forbid them to take part in Major and Main contests (I have no idea how they are going to do it.). These raiders will organize their open Championships (for example Donald Campbell). We will have two World Championships.
Raiders in the Czech Republic are helping organize slalom contests. I can’t imagine they wouldn’t be able to race on their own Major or Main contests.
ISSA should encourage for an establishment of the national associations! The National associations would be executive parts of the ISSA.
I have questions. What is the ISSA legal personality? Where is the ISSA established?
Petr Janoušek
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Post by Guillaume Saint-Criq » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:49 pm

I must agree on Petr post.
The problem is (quite) the same here in France...

To understand our situation, you understand the situation Jean-Sébastien described above...

Slalom Skateboard in France is under the aegis of FFRS (roller skating French federation) : FFRS deal with multiple disciplines : from skateboard (slalom, DH, street) to roller (all disciplines...).
Beside the FFRS, committes deal with each disciplines : the CND (Comité National Descente) is in charge of Slalom and Downhill skateboard (and mountainboard)!

We also already have clubs (Riderz, BLC, and others...) : each club must pay to "affiliate" into the FFRS (that's the 140€ Jean-Séb was talking about, isn't it?) and can get insurance solution for events, ask for money, it also help for road closure etc etc...

But each riders must also pay to the FFRS 35€ to get their "FFRS licence" : the licence give to the rider a personal insurance (with the FFRS contract) when skateboarding-not for organizing-, and it gives him the right to be ranked in the French championships.
But they can of course enter the events (without being part of the official CND ranking).

There is already 2 groups here in France :
- those few who pay these licences (around 20-30 racers each year)
- those who do not pay because they only enter one or two events a year (sometimes our local main/major events) and don't mind about our national ranking
We never choose to make the licence mandatory because we wanted to see slalom grow.

That was the context.
Here are some problems that can appear :

We will have 3 groups now including the few of the first group who will want to pay for the ISSA (you will probably be able to count them on your hand, the ones who each years go to some Euro events)

We are scared to see some racers not attending our main event (Grenoble WC) if they have to pay something to the ISSA.
And I think we will not exclude them!
They will enter the event, even if they are not included in the ISSA official ranking.

I really don't know (yet) what is the good solution for us and how to develop the ISSA membership (it's already hard to develop the national membership) and how to get benefits from this growing membership (we already have insurances... we need material helps to event -eg financing transport for starting ramps, finding sponsors -)...

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Post by Claude Regnier » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:53 pm

Petr with all due respect ISSA will not divide slalom. Egotistical people will divide slalom. In order to bring slalom where all of us want it to go for future events and the goodness of the sport this is just the tip of the iceberg of what will need to be done.

Some people will do their own thing, yes! People involved with ISSA will be working together to make it all better.

Remember ISSA started off in Europe and was left for dead. It was resurected upon the urging of many countries and it's participants. We reformulated the rules, races are better and more people then ever are participating.

A $25.00 annual fee is nothing to help promote a sport that you participate and believe in. We know times are tough and economics are different around the globe but $25.00 is very little to invest in compared to some of the overpriced equipment we race on. It is only priced so high because there are not enough sales. So having a sound organization can only do the sport, it's manufacturers and membership good.

We need this to make it better. Donalds idea of the best competing is an old one in slalom it is nothing new. Many slalom leaders have had degrees of success. Many people have invested a lot of their own time and money and tried. It will take time and obviuosly we all the time to be now. Many of us of course would have liked it to be yesterday. :)
Last edited by Claude Regnier on Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Many Happy Pumps!

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Post by Jean-Sébastien Dennebouy » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:56 pm

Thanks for the answer Joe (and indeed, the beer sponsorship did help, even if it's not working anymore but hé... no slalom skateboard on the Trocadero this year again... Two in a row... :()

About the organizers vs riders fees, i understand your point, but as i'm also in downhill races and we could tell the same, in France at least. Everywhere it's always a few people in the head of the whole event, if it's not one and only person...

I'm afraid that Petr is right, ISSA is not official as i understand ? Not registered, and not recognized by the international FIRS federation.
Nothing can prevent organizers and riders to bypass it as Donald is peacefully showing to you. IGSA is in the same position, their only force is the reliance of the riders. Some people also wanted to set up new DH organization and circuit by their own against IGSA...

The value of the ranking and the Championship is made by the races AND the riders. ISSA needs to be attractive to everybody, the point is that charging the riders is harder to accept for more people than charging the events.

As in my personal experience with downhill events in France we hardly accepted the IGSA fees (first IGSA event in France=2006 i think, and we payed nothing, nobody wanted IGSA !).
But it's more easy to pay when you divide the fees by the number of riders registered on your event. And it's a bonus for the riders, who all accept to pay 10€ more to have the IGSA status and therefore more riders register.
Finally : more riders = more level for you and more money to pay IGSA.
It's a win/win trade, and it worked, now there are at least two IGSA races in France per year...

My 2 cents

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Post by Ricardo Damborenea » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:16 pm

I think we all agree in the following:
1. ISSA needs financing
2. We want more riders
3. We want more races

I think the question is not who -riders or events- should pay (my humble opinion is that in any sport you need a license to compete), but what's the "value for money" for the payer. To be honest I have already paid as I think this BOD deserves a chance: has been democratically elected, is motivated and willing to do things. But for me it's very difficult to see how ISSA can provide "value for money" to either individual riders or event organizers at large. In my opinion -and I agree with Jean-Sebastien, Peter and Guillaume but for different reasons- the way forward to drive that "value for money" is to go for a more federal & pyramidal governance structure (ISSA, national chapters, local associations).

Let me try to explain myself.

As in all sports, value can be created in the eyes of riders and/or organizers through several levers: My opinion is ISSA is not well position to use some of those because it tries to manage centrally issues that -by nature- can not be efficiently managed that way:
1- Providing sport rules: done
2- Providing sanctioning of events: done, but responsiveness really bad through 2009
3- Providing a "court" to resolve disagreements: done (?)
4- Providing a ranking: done
5- Providing insurance: Not today. How to do this across geographies?
6- Providing referees and timing/measurement equipment: idem?
7- Providing event organization support: idem?
8- Providing sponsorships & media coverage: Not today. Could be done, but will always be partial.

ISSA has not well defined "tentacles" into the grassroots slalom scene and that is needed to be able to provide real value to both riders and organizers.

Please try to imagine a different, more federated model:
- ISSA continues to do 1,3,4 and some 2 (rules) and some 8
- ISSA develops new roles:
> Endorsement/approval of ISSA "representative" associations in each country
> Define rules and/or endorse/approve ISSA "referees"
> Retains exclusivity to organize and/or grant organization rights for Continental and Worlds
- Country "approved" associations sanction rest of events
- Country "approved" associations do 5, 6, 7 and rest of 8 for the events they sanction

The financing model would be something like:
- ISSA commercially exploits Continental and Worlds championships
- ISSA gets a small fixed fee paid by the country "approved" associations for every licensed rider
- Country associations decide on their financing models (riders fees, event fees, sponsors, public help, etc). All riders in any competition sanctioned by ISSA or the country associations must have a license (can be easily embedded into event fees).

This model still needs more thought and will not be achieved from one day to another, but if we agree on the goals (money for ISSA, more riders, more events) I think is the direction to go. Nothing new, though, as this is how most sports are organized.
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:12 pm

Petr & Guillaume,

Peter Klang is the only representative on our BOD from the EU. Donald Campbell was also nominated, but removed himself from the ballot before voting ended. No one else from Europe ran for a seat. I would like to see this change, maybe some one else will volunteer at the end of this year.

We are incorporating the ISSA in Denver Colorado, because that is our cheapest option at the moment.

Let me say plainly - I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW WE ARE PREVENTING RACERS FROM ATTENDING RACES!?!

When you enter your first race it will cost the entry fee which will include the $20 Euro. Your next race will come at a discounted membership price. It is the same as Jean Sebastien's suggestion of having the race promoter raise the fees to cover a sanction fee, except we only ask you for that increased fee once.

Our intent is to use these racer membership fees to make races easier, more plentiful, and cheaper in the future. SO your fee now, will actually mean better, cheaper, and more races in the future.

When I was in paris I paid $9 Euro for a beer at a cafe. Is it really the $20 that will keep people from racing or are individuals opposed to the principle of investing in our organizational goals? Did you know that a major wheel manufacturer has already pledged a 25% discount to members? We are encouraging others to do the same. Does that soften the financial burden?

Making this decision was very hard for the BOD. Racers want value from the ISSA. They want the points system, they want help at races, etc, etc. We cannot do that without raising funds. The BOD decided we wanted to place that responsibility on the racers in a small amount, not on the organizers in a big ammount. Better to have a few angry racers than angry organizers, since no organizers means no races.

Please believe that we do not think this plan is perfect and are willing to examine other avenues for 2011, but it was our time to act, and sometimes an imperfect act is better than no act at all. I guess the word will come from skaters. If they stay away from Majors and Mains because of the $20, then we will know our mistake.

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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:18 pm

Jani and Jean Sebastien,

No thanks needed for the Duvel, I drank plenty of it, my point is that we all need to take advantage of each other's vendor contacts.

My dream is that someone makes a contact at Pepsi, Swatch, Timex and we all start going to these contests for free, have paid (and attractive) coneheads, etc.

I think collecting all of us under one organization is our best way to this goal. That 1000 of us make more of an impression than 100 of us.

Joe

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Post by Petr Janousek » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:53 pm

Guillaume, Jean-Sébastien and Ricardo thank for your support.
Joe, yes, for anybody isn’t 20EUR or $25 big money. I’m going to pay it. I think that Guillaume, Jean-Sébastien and Ricardo are going to pay for membership too. I’m president the Czech Association of Slalom Skateboarding and I represent the interests 30 Czech riders here. 26 Czech riders never go to the slalom contest in France (sorry Guillaume) they never buy beer for 9 EUR because it’s more expensive for them, but these Czech rides want to work for organize the Czech slalom contests. These riders organized European Championship in Policka (Major status) in 2009. These riders could ride in this European Championship. It was their single payment. ISSA didn’t help us. The status marshals decided about status “European Championship” one month before this Championship started. It was too late for sponsors.
New BOD ISSA say us: “Racers in Main and Major ISSA-sanctioned events in 2010 will be required to join the ISSA and pay this fee.“. It isn’t acceptable for us (racers and staff in one person).
Joe wrote:”Peter Klang is the only representative on our BOD from the EU. Donald Campbell was also nominated, but removed himself from the ballot before voting ended. No one else from Europe ran for a seat. I would like to see this change, maybe some one else will volunteer at the end of this year.“. I would like to candidate to BOD, but I have handicap. My English is horrible.
Peter Klang wrote:” The application should be sent to me, Ramon and Dominik before 31-12-09 for process. Status will be announced in January 2010. This goes for all citys whom want any status 2010 in Europe.“. I’m reading in official ISSA web sides now: „Major: (candidate) WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS / Brixlegg, AU / 20-22 August“. I ask BOD:” How can the riders plan participation on contests when marshals status don’t work?”.
Petr Janoušek
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:26 pm

Petr Janoušek wrote: I’m going to pay it. I think that Guillaume, Jean-Sébastien and Ricardo are going to pay for membership too.

I'M GLAD TO HEAR IT.

I’m president the Czech Association of Slalom Skateboarding and I represent the interests 30 Czech riders here.

I'VE BEEN VERY IMPRESSED BY YOUR ABILITY TO ORGANIZE AND HOPE THAT WE CAN LEARN FROM THINGS YOU HAVE ALREADY DONE.

These riders organized European Championship in Policka (Major status) in 2009. These riders could ride in this European Championship. It was their single payment. ISSA didn’t help us. The status marshals decided about status “European Championship” one month before this Championship started. It was too late for sponsors.

YES, I AGREE THE ISSA HAS FALLEN SHORT IN THE PAST. THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS I HAVE VOLUNTEERED MY TIME TO THE BOD. I WANT THAT TO BE BETTER AND DIFFERENT AND WHEN YOU HOLD ANY RACE FROM VERY SMALL TO WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, IF YOU WANT HELP, I WANT THE ISSA TO GIVE IT.



I would like to candidate to BOD, but I have handicap. My English is horrible.

MY CZECH IS HORRIBLE. THERE ARE TRANSLATION SITES. PLEASE DON'T LET THIS KEEP YOU FROM PARTICIPATING. YOU HAVE MY OWRD THAT IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY, I WILL LISTEN AND HELP YU EXPRESS IT TO OTHERS


Peter Klang wrote:” The application should be sent to me, Ramon and Dominik before 31-12-09 for process. Status will be announced in January 2010. This goes for all citys whom want any status 2010 in Europe.“. I’m reading in official ISSA web sides now: „Major: (candidate) WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS / Brixlegg, AU / 20-22 August“. I ask BOD:” How can the riders plan participation on contests when marshals status don’t work?”

IF YOU WANT TO HOLD A CONTEST PLEASE MAKE ME OR ANY BOD MEMBER AWARE OF IT. WE WILL ASSIST YU IN THE PROCESS.


.
TO EVERYONE & PETR

AS I HAVE SAID THE BOD HAS DECIDED TO TAKE THIS BOLD STEP AND TRY AND MOVE SLALOM FORWARD. WE HAVE VOTED AND IT IS HAPPENING. IF WE OPENED THE DISCUSSION TO THE WORLD OF SKATERS, WE WOULD ONLY DISCUSS AND NEVER ACT. SO WHILE IMPERFECT, WE ARE MOVING.

THE BOD AND I WILL BE HAPPY TO DISCUSS THIS MORE WITH YOU IN THE FUTURE, BUT WE NEED TIME TO IMPLEMENT OUR PLANS AND DO OUR BEST TO MAKE IT WORK. I APPRECIATE YOUR PASSION AND HOW YOU CARE ABOUT THE SPORT. I HOPE WE CAN WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE IT BETTER.

JOE

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Post by Petr Janousek » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:49 pm

O.K. Joe. Thank you for your answers.
Petr Janoušek
Czech Republic, Prague
http://www.sk8slalom.cz

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Post by Rick Floyd » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:10 pm

Bravo for the ISSA BOD!!
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I support the ISSA

Post by Keith Hollien » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:32 pm

I want to thank Gary, Joe, Wesley and the rest of the BOD for moving slalom forward.

I have been slalom skateboarding since 1976 and I think we need an org. like ISSA. I have supported the ISSA since the 1980's and in fact I was on the cover of #5 Slalom! magazine in May 1988.

I have seen a lot of in fighting since March 2003. I have been to almost 80 cities(over 160 races) since then for races and I think we really need to band together for slalom and do what is best for the SPORT of Slalom Skateboarding. The time is now.

The ISSA has laid a lot of ground work for slalom and I plan on supporting it any way I can. I payed my dues and have no problem paying such a small amount if it will help Slalom Skateboarding advance. As I said I think we need the ISSA and it would be a waste to not support an org. that has done so much for Slalom Skateboarding over the last couple of decades.

Keith - Teams Radikal, AXE ARMY & Oust.

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Post by Ricardo Damborenea » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:42 am

I think we all share the same goals: more skaters, more contest, more money. We (myself and the +80 members of our association MOSS) surely will help from this corner of the world to achieve that.

I'm also a "doer", Joe: I set up an association 1 year ago; we've organized the first Spanish championship (57 riders participating); we have a 7 stage outlawslalom series; we have sk8trips every couple of months; we have mobilized Spanish riders to go for the first time to the ISSA circuit... Very similar story could be told for Peter, Gullaume and Jean-Sebastian. They (we) are no moaners, they (we) are doers and they (we) are -also- the reason why this sport moves forward. We have earned the right to express our point of view. We are also the guys that will have to make happen whatever plans ISSA makes.

So if you and /or the BOD needs help, count on me and my association.

But ask for it.
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Post by Neil Orta » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:29 pm

I joined and have been watching the actions of the ISSA for several years now and with everyone else have seen MANY things I have not liked or agree with and some things that are plain stupid but of course that is my opinion.

The current BOD deserves praise and applause for the actions they are taking to improve the ISSA which WILL improve slalom across the world.

The changes needed in the current ISSA structure to enable the BOD to make any improvements are not always going to be appreciated or liked or whatever term you wish to apply but that is life and we must deal with it. ATLEAST THEY ARE TAKING THE STEPS.

Those who support SLALOM around the world should show support of these acting BOD members who have responded to the cries for a better sport, go with the flow and keep the ideas coming it is obvious they are listening!

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Question

Post by Cyril Schardijn » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:31 pm

Tried to find an answer in all the text above, but couln't find it.
Do the rules comply for kids aswell?
I have two 13 yr old girls and a 11 yr old who probably will compete in a main event coming year.
I'd rather spend my time between

sillycones

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Post by Gary Fluitt » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:39 pm

Cyril-
Yes membership applies to Juniors as well as adults.
Thanks,
Gary

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Post by Sj Kalliokoski » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:16 am

I would propose to re-think membership payments for juniors, ISSA really needs them.
-pokkis
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Post by Petr Janousek » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:10 am

Sj Kalliokoski wrote:I would propose to re-think membership payments for juniors, ISSA really needs them.
Yes, we agree with this idea. We need juniors. Sk8 slalom will be dead without juniors. We propose that juniors don´t pay for membership.
Petr Janoušek
Czech Republic, Prague
http://www.sk8slalom.cz

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:20 pm

When I think about my kids 10/11 yrs old who can only just barely go through the course I would vote for no fee for juniors. However when you consider juniors like Viking/Viktor/Dupont/Gustavs etc racing in their later junior years, it seems more acceptable. Anybody who is racing at a world level is probably motivated to pay a membership fee, and it would be easy to require it. We have to think more about those first timers and the small kids. Maybe we should have an age limit for when juniors pay or don't. A reasonable limit might be 15 yrs.

/Jani

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Post by Neil Orta » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:10 pm

Gary Fluitt wrote:ISSA 2010

So in 2010, we will begin charging an annual fee for ISSA membership. Racers in Main and Major ISSA-sanctioned events in 2010 will be required to join the ISSA and pay this fee.

We encourage everyone to become a member of the ISSA, but it is only required for racers in the Main and Major events. All other event levels have no membership requirements.
Jani Soderhall wrote:When I think about my kids 10/11 yrs old who can only just barely go through the course.....
/Jani
It seems as though many are not getting the whole premise behind having an association that will be there to provide value to slalom racing as well as promote growth and that it cannot exist without income on which to operate. Many who have posted agree that the Worlds should be the best riders in the world and that racers must qualify in order to compete at that level, with those ideas in mind juniors (or any rider for that matter) who can barely make it through the cones should be starting at a basic or prime level event. Of course they should be and will be welcome to race in any event they choose but it should be understood that in order to race at a Main or Major it comes at a higher cost.

Developing any sport needs to happen from the ground up therefore when organizing races not everyone should be aiming to have their event a Main or Major, there should be a tier in each area as to the number of events and of which level they are. Of course this will make more sense when the sport grows but we have to start somewhere.

Say for example there should be 10 Basic, 5 Prime, 3 Mains and 1 Major in each area. When we can get the sport to this level then all racers will have the option to race the lower cost events when beginning the sport.

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Post by Stephen Lavin » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:23 pm

Hey, I hear you all on the relax dues for juniors however my mom always paid for my association fees for hockey, football, and other organized sports as a kid. They were ALWAYS higher that $25 even in 1969 dollars. Momma gotta' pay it... OR we get volunteers from the membership pool to offer dues for a fund or something. I would pump a few bucks into a program like this for recognized hardships, etc. Heck I will even propose it and run a fund for the association if it is agreeable and we figure out how it will function.
LAVIN

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:42 pm

Neil Orta wrote:...juniors (or any rider for that matter) who can barely make it through the cones should be starting at a basic or prime level event. Of course they should be and will be welcome to race in any event they choose but it should be understood that in order to race at a Main or Major it comes at a higher cost.
I agree with you Neil. I even refused to have a juniors class at the Trocadero races because I really wanted it to be a high level event (also the place is not really suitable for juniors/beginners) but when a Main race comes to your home town it's a pity if there are kids that will not participate due to the cost. I know it's not much but still think it's worth considering how to encourage junior participation.

In a way, Major and Main races will in most cases naturally remove any participation from juniors and beginners as most likely they will be unable to make it through the courses (or down the hill), but let's say the organizer really sets up a separate Junior (or rather boys/girls, up to 12 or so) class, should that be run according to the same rules? Maybe there could be some allowance here. Maybe event organisers can find their own way around it, by not making the junior class official, but if that at the same time means that we don't get the new kids into the ranking.

I encourage the BOD to consider these aspects (sorry to put more burdon your already busy agenda!)

/Jani

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Post by Guillaume Saint-Criq » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:50 pm

From what i understood from this rule, not being an ISSA member doesn't exclude you from participating at the event, it only exclude you from official ISSA ranking for this event

Other way to say it : i can enter a main event without being ISSA member (if the organizer is OK) but my results will not be included in the ranking.

Am I wrong with this?

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Post by Neil Orta » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:30 pm

Jani:
I agree with you that we need to consider how to encourage junior/beginner participation with few events being held as of now but there is an answer and communication in an open forum such as this lets all voice their opinions so an answer can be found.

Organizers can "find a way around it" but by it are you speaking of the ISSA, and what we are trying to accomplish?

Why are you so concerned about "new" kids being in the ranking? Plain and simple if you want to be ISSA Ranked and race in an ISSA race then you should join the ISSA.

Guillaume:
Official ISSA Ranking is one of the benefits of becoming an ISSA member, so is the ability to race at an ISSA main or major event.

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Post by Rick Floyd » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:26 pm

I'm with Lavin...and as an example (you knew it was coming) USASA snowboarding has kids from 5 and up, each paying $75/yr. before even one race is run/attended...and over 1500 riders at Nationals, mostly kids...it does not kill the sport, quite the opposite - a financially healthy and well-run governing body grows the sport like you can't believe.

Having said that, the forum here will, again, get us basically nowhere. We all just publicly disagree and that is all that ever happens here. Take your ideas directly to the BOD folks.

And I'll say it again because I just don't get it at all - all this ridiculous crap about the member fee....

IT IS TWENTY-FIVE DOLLARS!!! IF YOU, OR A PARENT, DOESN'T HAVE THE $25, THEN YOU LIKELY HAVE IMPORTANT FINANCIAL ISSUES WHICH MEAN YOU/YOUR KIDS SHOULDN'T BE SKATEBOARDING AT ALL, MUCH LESS RACING.

All this member fee discussion makes me embarrassed to be part of the sport.
Last edited by Rick Floyd on Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jani Soderhall » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:44 pm

Neil Orta wrote:Organizers can "find a way around it" but by it are you speaking of the ISSA, and what we are trying to accomplish?
I meant organizing a small non-ISSA (so to say) for the kids at the location and time of the big race, but not making that part official.
Neil Orta wrote:Why are you so concerned about "new" kids being in the ranking? Plain and simple if you want to be ISSA Ranked and race in an ISSA race then you should join the ISSA.
It's for us, it's not for them. They don't know much about the internet, rankings etc. They just think it's fun to go through the course. So it's really for us: I'm really proud that the ranking currently holds about a 1000 skaters. I'm afraid that will drastically drop with the new measures in place. If we can get some juniors and kids in at no expense, then it may be worthwhile.

...but it's a complicated equation and juniors is only a really minor part of the whole deal, so let's not spend too much effort on them.

/Jani

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