ISSA Membership Ranking for 2010 Season

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ISSA Membership Ranking for 2010 Season

Post by ISSA Board of Directors » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:37 pm

A provisional Ranking of dues-paying ISSA members, based on 2010 race results that we have so far received and processed, can be downloaded in PDF format at:

ISSA Member Ranking 2010 (Nov 24)

We will update the Ranking with more results as fast as possible. If you are the organizer of a 2010 race with official ISSA sanctioning and you have not yet sent your results to anyone on the ISSA Board of Directors, please contact us as soon as possible.
Jani Soderhall, ISSA President
Jonathan Harms, ISSA Vice President, ISSA Treasurer
Ricardo Damborenea, ISSA Secretary
Hans "Corky" Koraeus, ISSA World Ranking Administrator
Flavio Badenes
Ron "Fatboy" Barbagallo
Petr Janousek

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Post by Rick Floyd » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:38 pm

LOL :-X
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Post by Miguel Marco » Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:52 am

I have paid my dues, raced in a World Cup (Antrim), a National (Dovercourt), and 3 Regionals (Farm + 2 KHRT races). Statuses for those races are listed on the 2010 calendar. I don't even appear on the ranking....

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Post by Rick Floyd » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:08 am

Miguel Marco wrote:I have paid my dues, raced in a World Cup (Antrim), a National (Dovercourt), and 3 Regionals (Farm + 2 KHRT races). Statuses for those races are listed on the 2010 calendar. I don't even appear on the ranking....
Maybee your papers ist not orrderrr Herr Marco??
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Post by Miguel Marco » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:46 am

A lot of things are not in order with me, but that's another story... :D

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Post by Donald Campbell » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:05 am

wow
i just read that list hell yeah i shit my pants
so funny

dan you da man


are you on weed?

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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:48 pm

Rick Floyd wrote:LOL :-X
So what's the unofficial ranking with all the poor lads that don't have money for membership dues like Eurochamp Dominik Kowalski?

rmn
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Post by Rick Floyd » Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:50 pm

Hey, Glenn Bukowsky and Jeremy Coffman had GREAT seasons - right boyz? I mean, beating Louis Ricard, Adam Schwippert and Martin Reaves repeatedly...I was amazed. It was also so cool how Richy took out Joe M. so many times.
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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:56 pm

Sorry, don't get me wrong. I appreciate all the effort that is put towards a 2010 slalom ranking. But isn't it more work to exclude all unpaid racers rather than just have a ranking with everyone? Was it even communicated to everyone that they'd only be ranked if they paid their membership fees before the season started?

Do we automatically include membership fees on entry fees at a World Cup event so it's the organizer's responsibility if people entering his event will be ranked or not?

rmn
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Post by Jani Soderhall » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:02 pm

I have promised to present an alternative ranking (ie the "old" ranking with the 2010 years results. Like that we can compare the two and decide how to handle next year. Despite big efforts by members like Petr Janousek, Ricardo Damborenea, SJ Kalliokoski and Guillaume StCriq we're still not done yet, but it's on it's way. Corky is setting it up for us right now so that we can start uploading the results.


A fundamental problem with the ranking discussions over the years has been to have everybody aligned on what a ranking actually is. We should try to clarify that before we venture into 2011.

- For me a ranking is a measurement of skill level. Therefore I have always favoured the multiyear ranking over the one year ranking, as it takes into account your results over a longer period of time. A one year ranking is empty at the start of the year, and whoever wins the first race is all of a sudden ranked #1. Such a classification should be called a World Cup series (for example). The of course you are the leader when you win the first event. It would be great if someone organized and with good writing skills (JBH, WT?) could write such a description and we'll post that on the front page or at SlalomRanking.com to accurate describe what you're seeing in a ranking listing.

The 2010 ranking above has at least two major problems:

- one year only
- members only

but there are probably other problems too judging from the comments above of those reviewing the listing.

/Jani
Last edited by Jani Soderhall on Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:06 pm

Ramon,

In about 2 weeks time the election will be over and a new BOD will hopefully answer your question. The ranking being such an important matter, I suggest all nominees should let us know what they think should be done for next year.

/Jani

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Post by Cat Young » Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:01 pm

Let's not forget Kathrin, Lienite, Sandrine, Ella & Joy!!!!
Those women kicked booty this year!
Image

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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:26 pm

I just got word this is still work in progress. Never criticize work in progress. It's great that we at least get some sort of ranking, although I still think it's more work to double check who paid membership dues and who didn't.

A one year ranking on the other hand does not have to start on 1/1/XX. It can be 1 year back from any give date XX/XX/XX. You could even have display options.

- One year back from today
- One year starting 01/01/XX
- The proven 4-year (3-year respectively) ranking (that after all does make sense but needs to be accompanied by a one year ranking – or illustrated stats / tendency indicators etc…but this will get complicated)

rmn
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Post by Glenn Bukowsky » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:51 am

Yeah, Jeremy & I will be shopping for sponsors this winter for the upcoming season.

HaHa, I'll get right back to you!
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Post by Rick Floyd » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:43 pm

Glenn Bukowsky wrote:Yeah, Jeremy & I will be shopping for sponsors this winter for the upcoming season.

HaHa, I'll get right back to you!
I'll sponsor both of you if you promise to give me some of your secret racing tips. ;-)

-RF
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Post by Ron Barbagallo » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:34 pm

hehehehe - my name is next to Henry Hester's
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Rankings oddities

Post by ISSA Board of Directors » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:50 pm

An important note about the "provisional rankings" post at the top of this thread includes "...results that we've received so far".

IF your name doesn't appear in the ranking and you have.
1. Paid member dues
2. Raced in a sanctioned raced

THEN we haven't received any results for that race.

This is the case with Mig not appearing, and probably a couple dozen other due-paying-sanction-racing slalom skaters reading this post.

We only have results for seven races:
Texas Sizzler
Turri Road
Meze Slalom
St. Louis
Oregon State Games
Seismic World Cup
World Championships

If you raced in a sanctioned race not appearing on this list of seven, we need the results.

You can email results to issa.bod@gmail.com

We'll do our best to get all of these results entered by the end of the year.

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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:27 am

I am the organizer of the European Championships and I was asked to submit the results. I did sent them to several people who I think were involved in the process.

Ask Jani. Ask Petr.

rmn
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Post by Rick Floyd » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:36 am

The sanctions listed at http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=7082 are really hard to decipher. The list for North America at the top of the page does not include many of the sanctions listed next to races in the monthly calendar further down the page.

for the ranking so far, can you please list the sanctions approved for those races?

What point system is being used to figure these rankings? How many races determine each riders rank - i.e. best 6/best 4 etc.?

Will you publish all included race results, showing the breakdown of who got what in which race, so we can check and make sure it is correct, like Corky did with his system?

Have you contacted all organizers of sanctioned races and let them know that they need to submit results - and in what format, or are you just hoping they'll see the this thread? I would hope that given the way the ball was dropped on the rankings for this year, that if the rabbit is to be pulled out of the hat, someone would be pro-active and help pull this together, rather than just saying "if you raced, send us the results".

I applaud Dan for trying, and spending his time on it - but come on. What is the point of something incomplete and undocumented like this "after the fact" and the way this year went? If we can't do it right, let's bag it and move on to 2011, and try to do a better job next year. Jani is trying to put together a ranking using Corky's system, which would be better than a system in which nobody knows how it was figured, and it would keep the 4-year and historical rankings intact within an established system - complete with per race results and points earned.

Who cares who paid the $25 at this point? I for one don't want to be included in a ranking that doesn't include some of the best racers in the world, just because they had the foresight not to pay $25 for a ranking system that was never implemented during the season, and a "new" sanctioning system that was not even listed correctly on the contest calendar (at least for the US) until the middle of the summer. IMO this is NOT the way to "save the season" if that is the intent.

-R
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Post by Donald Campbell » Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:00 am

it seems that some of the members had good intentions but didn't really reflect on what they were doing there.
the ranking as provided now is a complete joke and a complete waste of time.
well,maybe not really a waste of time-the entertainment factor is there.
rick-you are so on the spot with what you wrote,nothing more to add-thanks!

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Post by Rob Ashby » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:16 pm

Hear, hear Rick, Donald - I agree entirely!

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Post by Petr Janousek » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:29 pm

I have the same opinion as Donald, Rick and Rob.
The world ranking where is not clear how was done how were counted contests how was allocate to points and where aren´t best drivers is useless. I have to say for myself that it is hard work to get results for this year. The new BOD will have a lot of work next season to got us to the level of 2009.
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Post by Neil Orta » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:11 pm

It is obvious that the main problem is the method in which the ISSA conveys its message and the obvious probability that many either missed the information being released or never went looking (PSST, read the main page….)

Donald-Any idiot can criticize from the cheap seats but to be a non-paying member and come into the forums and blast others for any attempt at making the wrong situation right when you repeatedly decline shows the type of person you really can be. Quit hiding behind the keyboard, step up and accept the nomination to the BOD and SHOW US how good you can do.

It seems pretty clear that maybe the Ranking should not have been released while incomplete BUT we cannot fault the BOD for organizers not doing their part and getting results in to be tabulated.

We can however fault the BOD for:
Not making sure that the status’ were awarded in a timely fashion.
Getting the Contest Calendar updated in a timely fashion.
Making sure the website is current.

In my opinion the BOD- whether paid OR volunteer- should not be responsible for chasing down any results, imagine if everyone here mouthing off and the rest of the members went after each of the organizers for not getting our results in on time? The organizer is the one who elected to have the event be sanctioned by the ISSA and we attended THEIR race believing we were to get ISSA points awarded as a result, when those points don’t materialize and the ISSA says “we never received the results” we only have the organizer to look at. Either they show us a dated document to prove their case AND resend them or we should not support them by attending their races.

I attended only FIVE races this year and all of them show up on the contest calendar in some way or another and of those only one shows up on the list of the ISSA having received results.

The website shows Steve Collins is responsible for the North American sanctions- is this accurate? I see Peter Pletanek’s name and that he posts calendar change history showing what he is doing but only Wes’s name giving information on the North American side- Where is Steve? If he is no longer interested the BOD should have appointed someone else to keep this current. Why does the heading “North American Sanctions” show:
(4) World Cups
(4) Regionals
For a total of (8) races

When the calendar shows:
(3) World Cups
(1) Continental
(1) National
(9) Regional
For a total of (14) races?
Of those on the calendar these races I attended have not had results sent in :
The Farm- Joe Icovelli
Dixie Cup-Marion Karr (assumed by email address shown instead of name)
Cone Fest-Lenny Poage (Overall result shown on Main Page of Website…)
WOTT- Lenny Poage (Event was three days ago…)

Everyone was made aware of how the ISSA intended to operate and how the Rankings would be calculated as per the post on the Main page dated March 4th, 2010 yet there are still so many questions on the forum as to how instead of reading what the BOD spent time to write to explain- go back and read the main page- Obviously there are different points tables for each of the sanctions WC, Con, Nat and Reg and each PAID member of the ISSA who raced in a sanctioned race that has been completed (race was run and the organizer did their job by following through with results) received points according to their finish. The results are showing the four highest finishes of each of these racers so Glenn and Jeremy do not have to beat a Louis Ricard or Adam Schwippert just place as high or higher in an event the others were not racing in…..this will all be reconciled when in year two of this “new” system the Louis’ and Adams of the world continue to show their excellent abilities while the rest of us mediocre racers bounce around below, hell if my correct points were shown to date I would right there under Richy, doesn’t mean I could even come close to competing with him at his level, but looking at this same time next year I will be 150 or so places down right where I belong.

I for one also find it offensive that someone who has been nominated AND accepted is publically promising an alternative to the ISSA ranking on the ISSA site- If he were truly interested in seeing the ISSA work shouldn’t he be working to assist in making what has been decided right? It is stated he is against what the ISSA has decided for the 2010 year and is putting in time to undermine the work these volunteers are doing, one of which he is looking to become.

Ramon as you stated “never criticize work in progress”, you are absolutely right in your thinking of a multi-year ranking but go back and read the main page, so was the BOD- they stated back in March that a multi-year World Ranking may also be maintained- but seeing how this is a new system it all must begin here- this is the first year.

Again- Go back and read the main page it answers most questions being asked EXCEPT why is the BOD NOT MAKING SURE THINGS ARE KEPT UPDATED???? (By the way the main page message is ALSO the “announcement” on top of this section of the forum!)

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Post by Donald Campbell » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:44 pm

good to have you here,neil orca!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

maybe i shouldn't even be allowed to talk to you as a non paying member?

who knows...

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Post by Neil Orta » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:16 pm

Neil Orta wrote:Donald-Any idiot can criticize from the cheap seats........

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Post by Jeremy Coffman » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:42 am

wow.
what a way to get my name known in the slalom world.

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Post by Rick Floyd » Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:37 am

Neil Orta wrote:It is obvious that the main problem is the method in which the ISSA conveys its message and the obvious probability that many either missed the information being released or never went looking (PSST, read the main page….)
Agreed on your first point - the method of conveying info needs to change. The website need a full navigation menu. Tabs for "Rankings", "Results" and "News" would be a good start. Yes, there is info on the "main page" but it is now halfway down a very long web page. This business of using the forum to get things done has to end ASAP. I'd like to point out that in that info on the "main page", under the sub-heading "What are we going to do with the (membership dues) money?"...it says..."The ISSA will use the money to pay for things like...upgrading and revising slalomskateboarder.com."
Neil Orta wrote:Donald-Any idiot can criticize from the cheap seats but to be a non-paying member and come into the forums and blast others for any attempt at making the wrong situation right when you repeatedly decline shows the type of person you really can be. Quit hiding behind the keyboard, step up and accept the nomination to the BOD and SHOW US how good you can do.
As far as non-paying members making comments in the forum, I don't believe that membership is a condition of being able to comment here. I also don't believe that releasing an undocumented ranking, without a points table, and without race results showing who earned what where, at this late a date, is "making a wrong situation right". IMO it is making a wrong situation worse. Again, the info on the "main page" says "The ISSA will use the money to pay for things like...the world ranking system..." and "World rankings will be managed by the ISSA. Thanks to the excellent work of Hans "Corky" Koraeus and other volunteers, the 2010 rankings will be part of your membership and will be updated every month." and "The specific number of points awarded for each placement will be revised...". NONE of this was done. None. I'm not placing blame - just stating fact since reality seems to be getting revised as time goes by. I don't know Donald personally, and he's not alone in posting inflammatory comments in this forum - we've ALL done it - but I know his "gang of three" had a reasonably complete and well-written proposal of how to change things next year. Why hold on to a system that was well-intentioned but essentially not implemented as proposed, or in a timely fashion, and block someone with new ideas from giving it a shot. I understand the ISSA has rules and processes, but what is the point of enforcing them if we just finished a year where those rules led to the sport practically falling flat on its face? I suspect that petty personal grudges got in the way, along with an attempt by some who have been in power far too long to hold onto that power. Good things were done by most current and former ISSA members - and personally I appreciate it, but maybe it is time to step down. That's why we need term limits in government, right? Why is there so much harboring of resentments in this sport - it seems nobody can let go of the past, they just keep dragging it around. I've had almost nothing but fun the last four years...I don't see why people are so damn surly.
Neil Orta wrote:It seems pretty clear that maybe the Ranking should not have been released while incomplete BUT we cannot fault the BOD for organizers not doing their part and getting results in to be tabulated.
Why would organizers submit results to be tabulated when there was no tabulation going on during the season as promised? Again - "the 2010 rankings will be part of your membership and will be updated every month". You can see from the numbers of skaters showing up at the big events this year that everyone pretty much saw the writing on the wall - that if one wished to compete for rankings, there were going to be none, so why spend all the money to travel to events. The ISSA specifically promised (main page) "We will take results and get your event's points into the rankings for member racers." Texas submitted theirs presumably in April (but I am guessing on that one) - and nothing happened...no posted results or rankings, and none for any other race for that matter, submitted or not, until this current ranking got released last week.
Neil Orta wrote:We can however fault the BOD for:
Not making sure that the status' were awarded in a timely fashion.
Getting the Contest Calendar updated in a timely fashion.
Making sure the website is current.
Yup - that too. And again - IMO maybe the right thing to do is just say "we failed, sorry"...and graciously give someone else a shot at it. Nothing wrong with that, and I think everyone understands the good intentions were there, but it didn't work out. Nobody got PAID to do the work - and while I don't believe "I was a volunteer, gimme a break" is a valid excuse, the fact remains it isn't an easy job. We can move on and not hold grudges, but trying to defend the situation isn't helping that process.
Neil Orta wrote:In my opinion the BOD- whether paid OR volunteer- should not be responsible for chasing down any results, imagine if everyone here mouthing off and the rest of the members went after each of the organizers for not getting our results in on time? The organizer is the one who elected to have the event be sanctioned by the ISSA and we attended THEIR race believing we were to get ISSA points awarded as a result, when those points don't materialize and the ISSA says "we never received the results" we only have the organizer to look at. Either they show us a dated document to prove their case AND resend them or we should not support them by attending their races. I attended only FIVE races this year and all of them show up on the contest calendar in some way or another and of those only one shows up on the list of the ISSA having received results.


I take exception to the "mouthing off" characterization. I paid my membership, and was promised certain things. I spent a boatload of time/sweat/money on equipment, going to events, training, time off from work...and now I have no right to give my opinion?? The ISSA certainly shouldn't have to "chase down" race organizers, but they certainly could do a better job facilitating their submittal. A quick email or two after an event asking for results, how to format them and what the deadline for submission would be a good start. I had to "chase down" all the big USA results last year to help make the 2009 ranking a reality, and it wasn't a tenth as much work as formatting and submitting the results to Corky was - and I wasn't even on the BOD. I did it because I love the sport and I wanted to keep it vibrant and growing - something I feel should be a cornerstone of what it means to be an ISSA BOD member. Continually saying "I did my piece, it's everyone else who failed" is just coming off as excuses and sour grapes. When the racers - the life blood of the sport - say "we have a question" and the response they gat back is, in essence, "I already answered that question, get a life", instead of "sure, I'll help you out", it is no wonder people become disillusioned with racing.
Neil Orta wrote:The website shows Steve Collins is responsible for the North American sanctions- is this accurate? I see Peter Pletanek's name and that he posts calendar change history showing what he is doing but only Wes's name giving information on the North American side- Where is Steve? If he is no longer interested the BOD should have appointed someone else to keep this current. Why does the heading "North American Sanctions" show:
(4) World Cups
(4) Regionals
For a total of (8) races

When the calendar shows:
(3) World Cups
(1) Continental
(1) National
(9) Regional
For a total of (14) races?
Of those on the calendar these races I attended have not had results sent in :
The Farm- Joe Iacovelli
Dixie Cup-Marion Karr (assumed by email address shown instead of name)
Cone Fest-Lenny Poage (Overall result shown on Main Page of Website…)
WOTT- Lenny Poage (Event was three days ago…)
Agreed - problem. This was confusing all year, and for much of the year the status' read "Major/Main/Prime etc." Should have been an exceedingly simple task to get this right. So it wasn't done. It's over. What would lead anyone to think that it will be done right next year?
Neil Orta wrote:Everyone was made aware of how the ISSA intended to operate and how the Rankings would be calculated as per the post on the Main page dated March 4th, 2010 yet there are still so many questions on the forum as to how instead of reading what the BOD spent time to write to explain- go back and read the main page - Obviously there are different points tables for each of the sanctions WC, Con, Nat and Reg and each PAID member of the ISSA who raced in a sanctioned race that has been completed (race was run and the organizer did their job by following through with results) received points according to their finish.
Partly true. "How the Rankings would be calculated" is not explained on the main page, and there are no points tables anywhere to be found on the site - at least not easily. Again, a "Rankings" tab in site navigation with all that info is needed. I know of no other sport where the points system is announced (or in this case not announced) AFTER the season is over - that is ludicrous, not to mention of no use to the racers during the season, and is rife for tampering "after the fact". I absolutely doubt there IS any tampering, but that possibility should never even be allowed to be part of the equation. If the ISSA cannot be pro-active about getting results (not so hard as I point out above) then they should not publish an incomplete ranking - its not fair to the RACERS who spent their money and time to attend the races. This is a separate issue from organizers not submitting the results - that is unfair to the racers who attended their events too. Is the ISSA really going to give out awards to people based on partial results just because they didn't receive them, and apparently didn't even pursue receiving them? There should have been a clear process for how to submit, who to submit to, what the deadline is - and if the results weren't being received, then the racers who raced should have been notified and I'm sure the necessary pressure would have been put on the organizers to get with the program. I know that if I was made aware of the situation I would have gone after some results - but it appeared to me the ranking was not going to happen at all - because it wasn't. Period.
Neil Orta wrote:The results are showing the four highest finishes of each of these racers so Glenn and Jeremy do not have to beat a Louis Ricard or Adam Schwippert just place as high or higher in an event the others were not racing in…..this will all be reconciled when in year two of this "new" system the Louis' and Adams of the world continue to show their excellent abilities while the rest of us mediocre racers bounce around below, hell if my correct points were shown to date I would right there under Richy, doesn't mean I could even come close to competing with him at his level, but looking at this same time next year I will be 150 or so places down right where I belong.
I am friends with both Glenn and Jeremy, and privately we have already joked about this situation among ourselves - but show me where they raced in an event and finished higher than Louis or Adam, that had a high enough status to make them acquire more points. As far as "reconciled in a year or two"...are you kidding me? We have to wait three years to sse that Louis or someone similar actually deserved an overall award in 2010? Neil, I know you well enough to know that you don't really think that is the way to run things. "If your correct points were shown" you'd be right there under Richy (above Joe Mac?) - I know you don't mean that either...unless points for regionals are equal to points for World Cups, which I sincerely hope is not the case. Been a stressfull week, huh bro? ;-)
Neil Orta wrote:I for one also find it offensive that someone who has been nominated AND accepted is publicly promising an alternative to the ISSA ranking on the ISSA site- If he were truly interested in seeing the ISSA work shouldn't he be working to assist in making what has been decided right? It is stated he is against what the ISSA has decided for the 2010 year and is putting in time to undermine the work these volunteers are doing, one of which he is looking to become.
We're gonna disagree here. I don't find it offensive at all. Corky's system may not be perfect, but it is the best we've got, and it will at least keep the current 4-year ranking intact. Remember, the info on the "main page" says "World rankings will be managed by the ISSA. Thanks to the excellent work of Hans "Corky" Koraeus and other volunteers, the 2010 rankings will be part of your membership and will be updated every month." I am going to vote for Jani - like I would have voted for Donald, precisely because "he is against what the ISSA has decided for the 2010 year" - CHANGE IS NEEDED. If that isn't obvious to all involved then I don't know what else to say. I don't feel he is undermining anyone. How can you call it "undermining" when what was stated and promised was not not given - the ISSA undermined themselves IMO.
Neil Orta wrote:Ramon as you stated "never criticize work in progress", you are absolutely right in your thinking of a multi-year ranking but go back and read the main page, so was the BOD- they stated back in March that a multi-year World Ranking may also be maintained- but seeing how this is a new system it all must begin here - this is the first year.
This is not a "work in progress". There was never any work. There was never any progress. Nothing happened all year. I will reiterate my comment in the post above - "Who cares who paid the $25 at this point? I for one don't want to be included in a ranking that doesn't include some of the best racers in the world, just because they had the foresight not to pay $25 for a ranking system that was never implemented during the season, and a "new" sanctioning system that was not even listed correctly on the contest calendar (at least for the US) until the middle of the summer. IMO this is NOT the way to "save the season" if that is the intent.
Neil Orta wrote:Again- Go back and read the main page it answers most questions being asked EXCEPT why is the BOD NOT MAKING SURE THINGS ARE KEPT UPDATED???? (By the way the main page message is ALSO the "announcement" on top of this section of the forum!)
The MAIN PAGE also says (points already noted above removed):

Racer benefits

• Recognition: Beginning with the Spring 2010 issue, the ISSA will have two pages in every issue of Concrete Wave magazine. Thanks to Michael Brooke, we'll be showing off the hottest racers in 2010.
• Racer discounts: Manufacturers are signing up to give ISSA members discounts on product. Details later on this racer benefit.

Organizer benefits

• Media coverage as part of the Concrete Wave ISSA coverage.
• Timing system: ISSA race organizers can use an ISSA timing system (dual-lane wired TrackMate 3) and timing spreadsheets.
• Mailing list: Market your race to the ISSA membership
• ISSA Rep assistance at race. We aim to have an ISSA board member or rep at every Main and Major ISSA race to help with logistics.
• Organizer assistance: From permits to road closure plans, to race-running tips, we're here for the race organizer. Let us help.
• Sponsor dollars: As part of an international package of races, sponsor dollars that flow into the ISSA will be used to help run your events.
• Marketing assistance: This includes website development, graphic design, T-shirt design and advertising. We have resources that can help race organizers.
• Points management: We will take results and get your event's points into the rankings for member racers.

New focus

In recent years the ISSA was focused on providing structure: rules, rankings and sanctions. A necessary foundation for sure, but now we want to focus on benefits – benefits for the racer and the race organizer. The ISSA has gone as far as it can go as just a loosely organized website/social network with a rule book and endless discussions. It's time for the ISSA to do something more.

Some, but not much of that ever happened. Just a fact. For me, it doesn't answer many questions - it makes MORE questions.

I was told repeatedly by a board member last Jan./Feb. that 2010 would be the only year where racers could join the ISSA "after the fact" and as late as the last race in the year - a point I completely disagree with as it is unfair to paying racers - and now I'm being told the same situation will exist again next year. Quote - "In 2011 we will have a full membership accustomed to paying annual dues and we can set earlier and specific deadlines." Oh well. I also want to point out that early in 2010 I volunteered to be the "North American Rankings Admin", but as the season progressed and I saw there was no ranking system, I made it clear to a current BOD member on 6/12/2010 that I would resign that position, because nobody from the BOD ever contact me in over 6 months about the rankings, I was not interested in working within an undefined system at that late a date, or possibly spending 80 hours at the end of the year again gathering results and formatting rankings like I did last year. I was told at that time that the rankings database was "almost done".

Last year an email was sent out by the ISSA early in December saying "Congratulations go out to Donald Campbell. His spirited and engaging campaign the past three weeks energized and invigorated everyone associated with the International Slalom Skateboard Association." So why is he being hung out to dry this year for doing basically the same thing?

I provided a story and photos to the ISSA for one of our NESRA races back in May (within 4 days after our event), purportedly for inclusion in Concrete Wave, but I don't think anything ever happened with it. So before anyone else hangs me out to dry for speaking my mind, know this - I tried to help with what was outlined as trying to be accomplished - offering help with rankings if they indeed would be maintained all year, running a three race outlaw series in New England, and submitting a story and photos on one of our events. As time went by and I saw that nothing was happening, I gave up. Even one of my own NESRA series race organizers took 5 weeks to get me results and a race story. It was pretty depressing. I decide to just skate and have fun, ignore the points and pass on putting any more of my energy into races nobody else seemed to care about. I've been roundly criticized for caring too much about skateboard racing the last four years, but I didn't let it deter me or dampen my enthusiasm until this year, and for that I apologize. I can do better, but I think we all need to consider moving on and not trying to "save" something this year that never existed in the first place. Let's use Corky's rankings. Let's dispense with the failed idea of who paid $25 and who didn't - there wasn't much of the promised value delivered for the money, and as I said, I don't care to be included in a ranking that excludes many of the best racers in the world.

Thanks to all this year's BOD for making a go of it, and having a good plan to start out - maybe we can make it work next year.

And to anyone who managed to read all this...congratulations, you've passed the audition. ;-)

-RF
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- Jason Mitchell (Criddlezine Interview)

Neil Orta
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Post by Neil Orta » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:29 am

Without getting into details here, you and I have done that, I agree with most of what you are saying and in reading what I had written see if you can see that I am defending the individuals and not the structure? I was not, I see that change is needed and change is what the article was promising, the people in charge have failed the Sanctioning Body they accepted nomination to govern. I see what was written and was all for giving it a try but the collective BOD did not do what was said, it was the people who failed not the system and I for one have yet to see that the system would not work, replace the people.

All of us who have voiced out are in agreement that change is needed and maybe that change is best to come from fresh meat in the seat. Maybe not.

Rick Floyd
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Post by Rick Floyd » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:00 am

Neil Orta wrote:Without getting into details here, you and I have done that, I agree with most of what you are saying and in reading what I had written see if you can see that I am defending the individuals and not the structure? I was not, I see that change is needed and change is what the article was promising, the people in charge have failed the Sanctioning Body they accepted nomination to govern. I see what was written and was all for giving it a try but the collective BOD did not do what was said, it was the people who failed not the system and I for one have yet to see that the system would not work, replace the people.

All of us who have voiced out are in agreement that change is needed and maybe that change is best to come from fresh meat in the seat. Maybe not.
I agree - that's why, besides feeling the need to defend/clarify what I said before - I wanted to say, hey, they gave it a shot, lets try again, but lets not try to make things up after the fact and pretend it can be saved. I think this kind of ranking at this point is obviously a joke - and I would hope they let Jani proceed, and rank anyone who raced anywhere. I would hope all current BOD would step down and give other people a shot. Many are clearly tired of it and jaded...why keep at it?
"All the money in the world can not buy sharing the excitement of life with other people. Nothing else matters."

- Jason Mitchell (Criddlezine Interview)

Steve Pederson
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Post by Steve Pederson » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:41 am


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Post by Guillaume Saint-Criq » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:57 pm

In every company I had to work, when you want to change a running system (here : change the slalom world ranking system), you first have to implement the new system, and test it to be sure there is only benefit from.
You must also evaluate costs (here : time to get results in the system)

Then you are able to decide on a GO/NO GO for the new system.
Are we?

I think Corky's system is one of the best achievment the ISSA made.
It was working well for years, and a V2 was just ready to go.
I think about the "Gang of 3 proposal" : most of the website items they listed are already implemented.
If we want to change it, or make it evolve, we always first must be sure the new system will be better.

As an organizer, i send results from my race to both ISSA Bod and Corky System.
As a racer, i only expect to see Corky's one, and try to help making this happen

It s another topic, but some are talking about paying/non paying and here is my thoughts :

if US and EU have SOME different needs, maybe we must operate 2 different associations!
Europe-SSA and North America-SSA, each one with different BOD (president, secretary,tresurier)
We also must try to develop south america and australia zone
Member fees are collected in each zone.
Each zone pay a % to ISSA to cover Ranking and Website costs, and maybe an ISSA prize money
Then each zone can spend the money with what's needed (insurance, timer, etc etc)
BOD in each zone is responsible to assign status and send results to the ISSA
National coordinators in each zone are responsible to transmit national races results to the BOD

Then we ALL vote for an ISSA President.
And ISSA BOD will be
- ISSA President
- and all zone Presidents (EU, NA, AU, SA...)
So we must start with 3 guys (ISSA president, EU president, NA president)
Australia and South America must be integrated together, to always keep un unpair number in the BOD
ISSA president can be also a zone president : then he get 2 votes power in the ISSA BOD.

Then each zone will be able to innovate in his organisation (more decentralised, with national associations, for exemple)
And it of course allow different zones to work together on other subjet in the ISSA (rules, media, sponsors) and benefit from each other best practices

We are creating conflicts but we all have the same goals : make slalom better recognised, make it easier for organisers and make it better for riders, make more people slalom, and make manufacterers produce more... it s call growth (and of course not only quantity, but quality)

Rick Floyd
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Post by Rick Floyd » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:32 pm

Couldn't agree more Guillame.

I'm also wondering if there is an outline of expected duties for BOD members somewhere. I'm betting people might be loathe to accept a nomination to a post with no clear guidelines as to what is expected/required of them. It's quite possible one exists and i just haven't seen it...so just asking.

-R
"All the money in the world can not buy sharing the excitement of life with other people. Nothing else matters."

- Jason Mitchell (Criddlezine Interview)

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