Let's make it tighter
Moderator: Pat Chewning
Now brady...why did you need to make such a nasty comment about my mom. I seriously doubt you have been skating that long, you don't even have any clue how old she is....that was just damn lame Brady.
And for that matter who cares how long you have been skating. I don't. I'm also not going to go down the typical road of slamming you (I'll let wesley do that). I've been skating off and on since 1985, snowboarding all the time since 1984. I didn't know about slalom until 4 years ago, I start slaloming then, I wish i knew about it years ago...I would ahve done it.
But who cares.
I said this last year, I mean it even more now. Slalom needs to move on from that past. We need to look forward and move on in new directions. This "reliving 1977" stuff is bunk...
If your trip is nostolgia go nuts 9it is alot of peoples right now)...but for slalom to grow it REALLY needs to move on.
Respect the past but don't live in it.....
And for that matter who cares how long you have been skating. I don't. I'm also not going to go down the typical road of slamming you (I'll let wesley do that). I've been skating off and on since 1985, snowboarding all the time since 1984. I didn't know about slalom until 4 years ago, I start slaloming then, I wish i knew about it years ago...I would ahve done it.
But who cares.
I said this last year, I mean it even more now. Slalom needs to move on from that past. We need to look forward and move on in new directions. This "reliving 1977" stuff is bunk...
If your trip is nostolgia go nuts 9it is alot of peoples right now)...but for slalom to grow it REALLY needs to move on.
Respect the past but don't live in it.....
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Just disappointed to read that Vlad and UR13 will not be attending the Worlds. Two fantastic skaters with a good chance of putting the East Coast on the podium. We ain't getting any younger and the sport ain't growing that fast....might as well get it while you can. I hope next years Euro tour is technical and tight. I truly hope to participate there and meet a few new friends. After all, slalom is about having a good time with good people. Don’t get me wrong, winning is cool too but for those of us who don’t have the time to practice a lot, (which is most of us) we still give it hell on race day hoping our much faster opponent will DQ. Personally, I could care less if it's STS, TS, Hybrid, GS, SGS...whatever it is… I'm gonna give it my best shot and have fun doing it.
Practice everything.
BTW...I got kicked off team Slacker.
Go figure.
JG practicing for the Worlds...
<p><a href="http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/Movie ... .MPG"><img border="0" width="233" height="162" src="http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/Racer ... g"></a></p>
Click Pic for video
Practice everything.
BTW...I got kicked off team Slacker.
Go figure.
JG practicing for the Worlds...
<p><a href="http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/Movie ... .MPG"><img border="0" width="233" height="162" src="http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/Racer ... g"></a></p>
Click Pic for video
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And that`s where we disagree Chris. I`ve been skating since before your mom had her first period. I`m not saying you don`t get it because you were born late. Heck, you probably GET IT more than I do.
The point is skating is skating. I`ve never snowboarded and haven`t skied since `78. Slalom is just another type of skateboarding that most that call themselves skaters don`t have a clue about.
I bet if you took 60 kids that skate regularly, and hold a slalom camp with them, a larger percentage would stick with it than with a comp of non-skaters.
And there`s nothing wrong with crossover from snow sports either.
The fact is, a lot of kids drop out of skateboarding because they lose interest in the dull, repetitive, flippy tricks. Teach the high of speed and g-force, and they`ll likely stick with it a lot longer, maybe forever.
Kids these days STILL race thier bikes, they still race thier mopeds, and with the right boards, I`m sure they`ll race thier skateboards. Even if it`s just a mad foot push to the end of the block.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-02 23:26 ]</font>
The point is skating is skating. I`ve never snowboarded and haven`t skied since `78. Slalom is just another type of skateboarding that most that call themselves skaters don`t have a clue about.
I bet if you took 60 kids that skate regularly, and hold a slalom camp with them, a larger percentage would stick with it than with a comp of non-skaters.
And there`s nothing wrong with crossover from snow sports either.
The fact is, a lot of kids drop out of skateboarding because they lose interest in the dull, repetitive, flippy tricks. Teach the high of speed and g-force, and they`ll likely stick with it a lot longer, maybe forever.
Kids these days STILL race thier bikes, they still race thier mopeds, and with the right boards, I`m sure they`ll race thier skateboards. Even if it`s just a mad foot push to the end of the block.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-02 23:26 ]</font>
Brady...On 2003-09-02 22:58, Brady Mitchell wrote:
But if all you want is free beer, heck, I have a fridge stocked with Wars, Buds, Hanks, and Red Stripes. Got`s 5 differant rums in the freezer. Let`s deep fry some conch fritters, through some crawfish (spiny lobster) on the grill and chill with sum Key Lime pie.
Slalom needs to get friendlier, and that means a course availble for newbies or longboarders, along with the specialized GS or TS.
Also, one other thing, let`s not drag that dead cat through hear again (ISSA) unless it gets a makeover and moves away from Olympics and towards more hardcore skating and big fat daddy corporate sponsors. Race promoters should have the rights to set thier own courses. If it`s bunk, then it won`t last long. If it`s hard core, then it`ll go off da top.
(Sorry Adam T, that`s just what I feel)
Peace out...
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-02 23:08 ]</font>
IMHO...you couldn't be more wrong. Slalom is ultra friendly right now. Slalom is as inclusive as it can get. The term "getting hardcore" and "friendly" don't go together.
What is the point of adding iron crosses and leather to slalom? None.....
The reason alot of people bring up the ISSA is that it worked, it has a great group of defined core rules that were not just pulled out of nowhere but organized and debated over by many countries with many agendas that all democratically agreed on them....
ISSA worked and is the only modern set of rules that exist that could even come close to an organizing body....do we have to use ISSA? no...but it there has not been anything else OR has anyone stepped up and defined anythign new. ISSA rules exist and they are a good starting point to work with right now. Any other options?
Slalom SERIOUSLy does NOT need this "skate and destroy" crap, hell most of the mainstream skate world has even moved away from that. Only the old guys hang on to it and it is sorta sad.
our market is NOT flipper guys or so called "hardcore" guys. No matter how much black leather, iron crosses, bloddy skulls, etc we use slalom will STILL do nothing for them.
Nor will making slalom all hiphop and ghetto do it either...
Racing, in general, doesn't appeal to those guys.
Our market is cyclists, skiers, runners, sprinters, drag racers, cart nerds....even if tony hawk himself start slaloming I doubt many kids would care.
Sure kids might like the glide of longboards and such but other than cruising around the appeal is limited for the most part.
I've watched kids in the two clinics I have been part of go from scared of trying slalom to full out racing in a matter of an afternoon...but that was with the help of three instructors and some pushing. Out of maybe 50-60 kids in both clinics i would say maybe three or four remember what slalom is....but that is all it takes. one here, two there...etc.
I would say of those 50-60 kids maybe 8 of them had ever stepped on a skateboard of any kind before. Most of the kids into it were either just normal kids more into playstation or kids who played other team sports.
I think the more we as slalom skateboarder distance ourselves from mainstream skateboarding the better off we are. We don't need them and they don't notice us....
Nor will making slalom all hiphop and ghetto do it either...
Racing, in general, doesn't appeal to those guys.
Our market is cyclists, skiers, runners, sprinters, drag racers, cart nerds....even if tony hawk himself start slaloming I doubt many kids would care.
Sure kids might like the glide of longboards and such but other than cruising around the appeal is limited for the most part.
I've watched kids in the two clinics I have been part of go from scared of trying slalom to full out racing in a matter of an afternoon...but that was with the help of three instructors and some pushing. Out of maybe 50-60 kids in both clinics i would say maybe three or four remember what slalom is....but that is all it takes. one here, two there...etc.
I would say of those 50-60 kids maybe 8 of them had ever stepped on a skateboard of any kind before. Most of the kids into it were either just normal kids more into playstation or kids who played other team sports.
I think the more we as slalom skateboarder distance ourselves from mainstream skateboarding the better off we are. We don't need them and they don't notice us....
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But if all you want is free beer, heck, I have a fridge stocked with Wars, Buds, Hanks, and Red Stripes. Got`s 5 differant rums in the freezer. Let`s deep fry some conch fritters, through some crawfish (spiny lobster) on the grill and chill with sum Key Lime pie.
Slalom needs to get friendlier, and that means a course availble for newbies or longboarders, along with the specialized GS or TS.
Also, one other thing, let`s not drag that dead cat through hear again (ISSA) unless it gets a makeover and moves away from Olympics and towards more hardcore skating and big fat daddy corporate sponsors. Race promoters should have the rights to set thier own courses. If it`s bunk, then it won`t last long. If it`s hard core, then it`ll go off da top.
(Sorry Adam T, that`s just what I feel)
Peace out...
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-02 23:08 ]</font>
Slalom needs to get friendlier, and that means a course availble for newbies or longboarders, along with the specialized GS or TS.
Also, one other thing, let`s not drag that dead cat through hear again (ISSA) unless it gets a makeover and moves away from Olympics and towards more hardcore skating and big fat daddy corporate sponsors. Race promoters should have the rights to set thier own courses. If it`s bunk, then it won`t last long. If it`s hard core, then it`ll go off da top.
(Sorry Adam T, that`s just what I feel)
Peace out...
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-02 23:08 ]</font>
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On 2003-09-02 15:20, Chris Stepanek wrote:
Slalom skateboarding will NEVER be big. It will never be a cash cow for the industry and it will NEVER be more than a small minority within the skateboarding world.
It ain't going to happen.
********************************************
I think it CAN be. There is so much going for slalom skateboarding that offers alot for both new participants and attraction to corporate sponsorship.
Everyone that sees or rides one of my slalom boards LUUUUVVVSSS the ride. The roll, the ability to turn, the carbon fiber decks, wild trucks, and smooth fast wheels. As for attracting the hardcore skaters on flippy boards, heck, they just need to see others of thier age doing the same. Maybe some pics in the mags of blood and gore from the spills? BLR belts with silver Iron Crosses across it at the PacSun in the mall?
Kids don`t ride hills these days because thier flippy boards aren`t designed to. But with the lower price, high performance boards now becoming available, who knows?
As far as being pidgeon holed into TS? That I have no problem with as long as other venues are being held, LBS, GS. Cyber Slalom, etc.
As far as UR13`s comments on TS races being held, I was under the assumption that you guys ARE running TS? Is it because most of the CAL contingient is running mostly GS courses? If that`s what they like, then let them ride it. My preferance is fast swervy courses with high body angulation, but maybe because I`m finding limits on this old busted up body. I`ll probably never be a true TS specialist. But it won`t stop me from trying.
If bigger $$ and more events are desired, well maybe we oughta hire a PR specialist (someone outside of the sport. Sorry Vlad) and see what it might take to bring big corporate dollars into the mix.
When I see beach volleyball with tournaments paying off 6 figure prizes, I wonder how and why? When I see checker tournaments with big payouts, I about spaz out, Heck, I just saw a plastic cup stacking tournament on t.v. that payed out more than all the prizes FCR has altogether (no offense Jack, John, Don, you guys have done great so far). Can you imagine? Blue cups against the red cups. "Go RCR" )Red Cup Racing, "We`ll kick yer arse"...BCS (Blue Cup Stackers).
Somewhere there is a missing link. Maybe it`s a now known skater pro that jumps into the mix, or a large corporate sponsor that through`s down silly money (Pepsi? Coke? Budweiser? Nextel? IBM? Sony? and how`s about NIKE?
Let`s make it ALL good!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-02 22:48 ]</font>
Slalom skateboarding will NEVER be big. It will never be a cash cow for the industry and it will NEVER be more than a small minority within the skateboarding world.
It ain't going to happen.
********************************************
I think it CAN be. There is so much going for slalom skateboarding that offers alot for both new participants and attraction to corporate sponsorship.
Everyone that sees or rides one of my slalom boards LUUUUVVVSSS the ride. The roll, the ability to turn, the carbon fiber decks, wild trucks, and smooth fast wheels. As for attracting the hardcore skaters on flippy boards, heck, they just need to see others of thier age doing the same. Maybe some pics in the mags of blood and gore from the spills? BLR belts with silver Iron Crosses across it at the PacSun in the mall?
Kids don`t ride hills these days because thier flippy boards aren`t designed to. But with the lower price, high performance boards now becoming available, who knows?
As far as being pidgeon holed into TS? That I have no problem with as long as other venues are being held, LBS, GS. Cyber Slalom, etc.
As far as UR13`s comments on TS races being held, I was under the assumption that you guys ARE running TS? Is it because most of the CAL contingient is running mostly GS courses? If that`s what they like, then let them ride it. My preferance is fast swervy courses with high body angulation, but maybe because I`m finding limits on this old busted up body. I`ll probably never be a true TS specialist. But it won`t stop me from trying.
If bigger $$ and more events are desired, well maybe we oughta hire a PR specialist (someone outside of the sport. Sorry Vlad) and see what it might take to bring big corporate dollars into the mix.
When I see beach volleyball with tournaments paying off 6 figure prizes, I wonder how and why? When I see checker tournaments with big payouts, I about spaz out, Heck, I just saw a plastic cup stacking tournament on t.v. that payed out more than all the prizes FCR has altogether (no offense Jack, John, Don, you guys have done great so far). Can you imagine? Blue cups against the red cups. "Go RCR" )Red Cup Racing, "We`ll kick yer arse"...BCS (Blue Cup Stackers).
Somewhere there is a missing link. Maybe it`s a now known skater pro that jumps into the mix, or a large corporate sponsor that through`s down silly money (Pepsi? Coke? Budweiser? Nextel? IBM? Sony? and how`s about NIKE?
Let`s make it ALL good!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-02 22:48 ]</font>
Hans...as much as I would love to see your plan work out I have my doubts. I agree we need an organized world tour with ONE sanctioning body. It can (should) be various race promoter organizations (FCR, GRASS, UKSSA, etc) under one sanctioning body (ISSA, etc) with a unified points system, ranking system and local course types (paris = tight/tech, la costa = SGS, england = flat and tight, breckenridge = GS, moscow = flat and tech, NY = super hybrid, switzerland = longboardy slalom ,etc...). This gives the series some local spice in course types and venues without favoring any one speciality. 8-10 stops for the season.On 2003-09-02 18:37, Hans Koraeus wrote:Chris, I don't agree at all. Look around you in this world of ours. There are many "idiotic" sports that are big business. I can't see any reason why not slalom skateboarding also could be there some day. I think it has an huge potential. And I think we have the people with the skills to make it happen. It's just not going to happen all in one step.On 2003-09-02 15:20, Chris Stepanek wrote:
Slalom skateboarding will NEVER be big. It will never be a cash cow for the industry and it will NEVER be more than a small minority within the skateboarding world.
It ain't going to happen.
I think personally to get it all going big time is to create a World circuit. This is our first important step towards a promicing future. It won't be easy but I think we are ready for it. All sports need something on the top to look up to.
Here are my golden steps to big fame. The first step being the key to it all is high and difficult.
1. World circuit.
2. More coverage in magazines, Web, DVD.
3. More skaters.
4. Big sponsor(s).
5. Coverage on TV.
6. More skaters.
7. More business.
8. Big bucks.
9. Influence
10. Olympics.
So if we do only 1 points/year that will give us hmm... 10 years until we are in the olympics (or simular status) after having started the world tour. So what are we waiting for.
"I have a dream..."
What do we need to make this happen?
1) big money (even middle money) sponsors. Like what Suzuki did for the US Open of snowboarding in the late 1980s....I see ford, honda, coke, snapple, red bull, etc. This will give the tour organizers money to work with overall promotion and local race costs/prize money.
2) prize purses $15,000US+ awarded to top four places (50/30/15/5%)...gives racers reason to come beyond fun. European racers make back their travel costs in US vis-versa for US in europe with some play money left over. This only comes from big money sponsors, entry fees don't help much
3) global points ranking and a true world champion based on most points in the series (like formula 1 or nascar) Points awarded places 1-16 count to world ranking over course of the season. US race points could count for US champion, European for european champion. Rookie of the year (rookie with most points).
4) some slalom superstars that have marketability in a mainstream market. Imagine Gilmour on a wheeties box, Chicken doing Target commercials, Luca pushing vodaphone, vlad doing vodka spots on russian TV, maysey doing sony commercials, Marcus Strobel for Tissot watches, Dylan Gordon is the shaun white of slalom...etc. This also gives the fans a chance to have their favorite rider or team (yes we need real organized teams, they can be as simple as two or three riders....) to chear for. Rivalries heat up...Gilmour the seasoned pro vs. Dylan Gordon the young gun, Maysey the american hope vs. Luca the dominant italian. These riders need to be great racers but also have something that can be marketed to make non-racers/skaters care. We have the riders/personalities, they just need to spotlight.
5) classic courses. permanent courses in certian venues. Paris is the first one that pops into mind. Courses run year in and year out, always the same. This gives younger riders a chance to compare to guys from 10 years ago, etc. It also adds spice to that race. "ladies and gentlemen, it looks like today Vlad Popov has a chance to break the paris course record of 13.2 set by Luca Gianmarco in 1995...qualifing times have been pushing 13.3 with some racers saying they are holding speed in reserve..." How cool would that be?
It is VERY ambitious but could happen with the right connections, who knows. We as slalom skateboarders could have a full on world tour for a fraction of the cost that other global race series have (cars, skis, bikes, etc).
Only after we have this do i think we can think the level of olympics. Look at normal skating, x-games type. They have been growing the x-games for years yet you don't see skateboarding in the olympics, or even on the radar for it. Only in the past 2 years have they really even made the x-games a truely global event.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-02 21:54 ]</font>
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Chris, I don't agree at all. Look around you in this world of ours. There are many "idiotic" sports that are big business. I can't see any reason why not slalom skateboarding also could be there some day. I think it has an huge potential. And I think we have the people with the skills to make it happen. It's just not going to happen all in one step.On 2003-09-02 15:20, Chris Stepanek wrote:
Slalom skateboarding will NEVER be big. It will never be a cash cow for the industry and it will NEVER be more than a small minority within the skateboarding world.
It ain't going to happen.
I think personally to get it all going big time is to create a World circuit. This is our first important step towards a promicing future. It won't be easy but I think we are ready for it. All sports need something on the top to look up to.
Here are my golden steps to big fame. The first step being the key to it all is high and difficult.
1. World circuit.
2. More coverage in magazines, Web, DVD.
3. More skaters.
4. Big sponsor(s).
5. Coverage on TV.
6. More skaters.
7. More business.
8. Big bucks.
9. Influence
10. Olympics.
So if we do only 1 points/year that will give us hmm... 10 years until we are in the olympics (or simular status) after having started the world tour. So what are we waiting for.
"I have a dream..."
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Chris, I enjoy your words and I agree with them for the most part but I'm going to do what I can do to get the word out there about skateboard slalom and I'm going to keep an open mind about doing it. Right now, I'm concerned with setting up a reference point that will get us through the next down cycle. I'de like to see us get in the Olympics and have a International governing body for race organization.On 2003-09-02 15:20, Chris Stepanek wrote:
Slalom skateboarding will NEVER be big. It will never be a cash cow for the industry and it will NEVER be more than a small minority within the skateboarding world.
It ain't going to happen.
Please help me with this dream.
Fighting fire with fire or water, both work yet only one will burn you.On 2003-09-02 14:34, Wesley Tucker wrote:I said "f#@k you" on purpose.
#1. It's your fucking choice.
#2. It's your choice.
Life is full of choices.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: adam trahan on 2003-09-02 17:56 ]</font>
...er, I forgot.
Thank you all for participating here. I really enjoy reading your stories and opinions. It really makes me feel like I'm reading the old "Slalom" zines back in the day.
Pretty cool thing.
Remember this one thing Chris, I don't know what's going on at http://www.ncdsa.com I can't "see" that site. I would bet that what's his name is back and is at it again.
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It’s WesE’s unlimited kindness and appreciation and Wes Tucker’s humanitarian approach to this issue that, in my opinion, will save the tight tight slalom world. But just for a day.
UR, you've read “Who’s da best you’ve ever…?” thread on BoL. So different from what it used to be. Even a year ago. Toddy not kissing CmC’s anymore. Several others changing the favorites. For a reason. Cheap games. Easy to see.
Political maneuvering without any political power is weak. Esp. in the sport that doesn’t exist.
But it’s truly entertaining. For a day.
UR, you've read “Who’s da best you’ve ever…?” thread on BoL. So different from what it used to be. Even a year ago. Toddy not kissing CmC’s anymore. Several others changing the favorites. For a reason. Cheap games. Easy to see.
Political maneuvering without any political power is weak. Esp. in the sport that doesn’t exist.
But it’s truly entertaining. For a day.
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TK and Ur13... in my opinion, your recent posts have been right on the mark. Thank you. It's a pleasure to read intelligent, insightful commentary on issues that I believe will be of genuine importance to the longevity of the sport.
..and Noah, you make me laugh outloud.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Andy Bittner on 2003-09-02 16:41 ]</font>
..and Noah, you make me laugh outloud.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Andy Bittner on 2003-09-02 16:41 ]</font>
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I forgot something...
If you can't make to to MB for whatever reason, but can make it to DC for "Nice and Tight", do so.
I will put together a parallel and tight special slalom event. RFK racetrack or the Whitehouse roller/inline-slalom ground.
There is $$ to be won. And free beer after the comp. Details - later in the appropriate forum.
If you can't make to to MB for whatever reason, but can make it to DC for "Nice and Tight", do so.
I will put together a parallel and tight special slalom event. RFK racetrack or the Whitehouse roller/inline-slalom ground.
There is $$ to be won. And free beer after the comp. Details - later in the appropriate forum.
Wes...On 2003-09-02 15:57, Wesley Tucker wrote:Chris,On 2003-09-02 15:20, Chris Stepanek wrote:
When can we start being specialists? When can we start riding the courses WE like and not having to be made to feel guilty about it?
I don't know quite how to say this without sound like I'm being snooty or suggesting some people be EXCLUDED from an event. The answer to your question, though, is "we" can start being specialists when we start holding "INVITATIONAL EVENTS." In other words, people come to an event who are invited based on their particular preference for racing.
Again, I know that sounds exclusionary, but I hope you get what I mean in concept. If you and some of the Nor'easters wanted to hold an exclusive TIGHT RACING weekend, you would put out the word that only TIGHT RACERS would enjoy themselves. What's more is I think it would have to be announced in such a way that only people who practiced and enjoyed tight racing would make the trip. Coming to such an event to "find out" if someone "likes" tight racing isn't part of the program.
The same it true with Hybrid racing, Giant slalom or whatever. One of the things I've admired over the past few months is Mike Gorman's JPL races. He has a big hill with a gnarly surface and advertises a big giant slalom on a big hill. Someone who goes to his race knows what's in store. Don't go to Mike's race with little wheels and short boards and then complain afterwards there was nothing there that involved that kind of racing. In other words, a short board and small wheels wasn't invited. If someone insists on coming unprepared, everyone will still be hospitable, but don't gripe later about the course.
Of course, maybe my attitude about being involved in all kinds of events means I win nothing, but at least I might get asked to show up at all the parties and still be competitive!![]()
I don't think we need to go that far, though I have no problem with invitationals, but for other reasons.
I don't see a specialist as being limited at all. I see it more as the excel in a specific event. If you have a race with say a GS and TS event I see the TS specialist excelling in the TS and doing pretty good in GS. i see a specialist as favoring/being better at one event over the other but not to the complete exclusion to the other event(s). In that world the specialist would never race. Part of racing IS showing up on race day, figuring out the course and taking your skillset to the podium and adapting. In fact that is 50% of racing right there.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chris stepanek on 2003-09-02 16:46 ]</font>
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What's so funny?
You sound somewhat sceptical or rather sacrastic...You don't believe me? A good nutrition is a way to get your ass ready for TS. And Califonia Fruit and Nut mix gives me that something that none other mixes can.
I get a kick every time I swallow.
Good TS skills start with good training and good nutrition! Good nutrition is a balanced nutrition. Check it out for yourself:
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Should we all care about promoting TeeAss, we should all swallow the mix.
You sound somewhat sceptical or rather sacrastic...You don't believe me? A good nutrition is a way to get your ass ready for TS. And Califonia Fruit and Nut mix gives me that something that none other mixes can.
I get a kick every time I swallow.
Good TS skills start with good training and good nutrition! Good nutrition is a balanced nutrition. Check it out for yourself:
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Should we all care about promoting TeeAss, we should all swallow the mix.
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- 1961-2013 (RIP)
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Chris,On 2003-09-02 15:20, Chris Stepanek wrote:
When can we start being specialists? When can we start riding the courses WE like and not having to be made to feel guilty about it?
I don't know quite how to say this without sound like I'm being snooty or suggesting some people be EXCLUDED from an event. The answer to your question, though, is "we" can start being specialists when we start holding "INVITATIONAL EVENTS." In other words, people come to an event who are invited based on their particular preference for racing.
Again, I know that sounds exclusionary, but I hope you get what I mean in concept. If you and some of the Nor'easters wanted to hold an exclusive TIGHT RACING weekend, you would put out the word that only TIGHT RACERS would enjoy themselves. What's more is I think it would have to be announced in such a way that only people who practiced and enjoyed tight racing would make the trip. Coming to such an event to "find out" if someone "likes" tight racing isn't part of the program.
The same it true with Hybrid racing, Giant slalom or whatever. One of the things I've admired over the past few months is Mike Gorman's JPL races. He has a big hill with a gnarly surface and advertises a big giant slalom on a big hill. Someone who goes to his race knows what's in store. Don't go to Mike's race with little wheels and short boards and then complain afterwards there was nothing there that involved that kind of racing. In other words, a short board and small wheels wasn't invited. If someone insists on coming unprepared, everyone will still be hospitable, but don't gripe later about the course.
Of course, maybe my attitude about being involved in all kinds of events means I win nothing, but at least I might get asked to show up at all the parties and still be competitive!

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- Moscow-Washington
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for a more direct example of percentages of racers look at snowboarding. Snowboarding attracts the same type of person as skating (mostly) but look at how snowboard racing has fared over the years within the snowboard world.
I think slalom skateboarding/general skateboard racing woun't fare THAT bad as it did in snowboarding because slalom skateboarding is ALOT more accessable that snowboard racing (no lift tickets, no trip to a resort....) but still this is a direct parallel.
So should we all jus give up? Nope....the sport will hopefully grow with younger kids getting involved. But tight slalom is just as valid to get kids into the sport as longboard slalom, GS, etc....
I think slalom skateboarding/general skateboard racing woun't fare THAT bad as it did in snowboarding because slalom skateboarding is ALOT more accessable that snowboard racing (no lift tickets, no trip to a resort....) but still this is a direct parallel.
So should we all jus give up? Nope....the sport will hopefully grow with younger kids getting involved. But tight slalom is just as valid to get kids into the sport as longboard slalom, GS, etc....
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- Noah
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So i was thinking about this "growth of slalom skateboarding" issue as I sat over my vegan tofu wrap at lunch...
When can we start being specialists? When can we start riding the courses WE like and not having to be made to feel guilty about it? How many more people need to buy a slalom setup for this to happen? 1? 5? 50? 1000?
Slalom skateboarding will NEVER be big. It will never be a cash cow for the industry and it will NEVER be more than a small minority within the skateboarding world.
It ain't going to happen. Here is why.
Racing isn't for eveyone. Racing isn't easy (nor should it be) and racing can be cruel. In all sports that have people that race in them, unless the point of the sport is racing, people who race are a small minority.
Lets take downhill snow skiing as an example. Out of the millions of people who ski worldwide you probably hve less than 100,000 people who race...be NASTAR to Olympic level. Out of those 100,000 people worldwide you maybe have 10,000 who are REALLY into it and maybe only half of them complete at a top level and only maybe 50 of them are the very top level (Olympics). The majority of skiers are recreational, they go out and cruise around a manicured resort, the adventerous ones go out and ski in the backcountry. You don't see many recreational skiers out at the resort with a pair of highly tuned downhill sticks/boots in a speed suit... a setup intended for one run on a very specific course....even if you saw alot of those people how many would be happy.
the thing racing has done for skiing is improv the equioment. Advencements in constructions, shapes, materials (overall ski technology) have been taken alittle at a time out of racing and built into recreationa skis. Even the most advanced top level recreational skier's equipment has very little in common with top leve racer's equipment.
Look at cycling, motocycles, cars or inline skates for the same thing...
Racing IS innovation.
At best slalom skateboarding will move technology into mainstream skating. At best we will be a small minority of skaterboarders world wide.
What is wrong with that? Nothing. It is the way it is.
I don't think we will ever see many more people slaloming as we do now. We will see more but no the numbers people hope for. However what WILL (has to) change is the number of kids and women involved. The more young kids and girls we get into slalom the more the sport will grow. THAT is what slalom needs.
Unfortunately racing as a discipline is even LESS cool now-a-days with kids. Mainstream "extreme" sports are all about air and tricks and freestyle. 90% of kids (skaters in general) have no clue that people race skateboards (that includes standup downhill and luge/buttboards). of that 90% the number who would care or be into it is even less.
Racing in any sport is a small minority. What keeps it going is an influx of younger people starting and doing it each year.
Right now slalom doesn't have that. You can get all the 30 and 40s something together on weekends you want but eventually the sport will die. Get a bunch of 30-40 year olds out WITH alot of 10-19 year old kicking their butts they you have something.
Longboard slalom (and the other types I mentioned above) are a great gateway....but who is to say tight slalom isn't either? it got me into the sport and a few others I know.....all under 30 (which isn't that young but it is a start).
again the tme is now to be able to present all types of slalom without having to feel guilty for liking one over the other and only being interested in one or two.....specialists are a very good thing.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-02 15:24 ]</font>
When can we start being specialists? When can we start riding the courses WE like and not having to be made to feel guilty about it? How many more people need to buy a slalom setup for this to happen? 1? 5? 50? 1000?
Slalom skateboarding will NEVER be big. It will never be a cash cow for the industry and it will NEVER be more than a small minority within the skateboarding world.
It ain't going to happen. Here is why.
Racing isn't for eveyone. Racing isn't easy (nor should it be) and racing can be cruel. In all sports that have people that race in them, unless the point of the sport is racing, people who race are a small minority.
Lets take downhill snow skiing as an example. Out of the millions of people who ski worldwide you probably hve less than 100,000 people who race...be NASTAR to Olympic level. Out of those 100,000 people worldwide you maybe have 10,000 who are REALLY into it and maybe only half of them complete at a top level and only maybe 50 of them are the very top level (Olympics). The majority of skiers are recreational, they go out and cruise around a manicured resort, the adventerous ones go out and ski in the backcountry. You don't see many recreational skiers out at the resort with a pair of highly tuned downhill sticks/boots in a speed suit... a setup intended for one run on a very specific course....even if you saw alot of those people how many would be happy.
the thing racing has done for skiing is improv the equioment. Advencements in constructions, shapes, materials (overall ski technology) have been taken alittle at a time out of racing and built into recreationa skis. Even the most advanced top level recreational skier's equipment has very little in common with top leve racer's equipment.
Look at cycling, motocycles, cars or inline skates for the same thing...
Racing IS innovation.
At best slalom skateboarding will move technology into mainstream skating. At best we will be a small minority of skaterboarders world wide.
What is wrong with that? Nothing. It is the way it is.
I don't think we will ever see many more people slaloming as we do now. We will see more but no the numbers people hope for. However what WILL (has to) change is the number of kids and women involved. The more young kids and girls we get into slalom the more the sport will grow. THAT is what slalom needs.
Unfortunately racing as a discipline is even LESS cool now-a-days with kids. Mainstream "extreme" sports are all about air and tricks and freestyle. 90% of kids (skaters in general) have no clue that people race skateboards (that includes standup downhill and luge/buttboards). of that 90% the number who would care or be into it is even less.
Racing in any sport is a small minority. What keeps it going is an influx of younger people starting and doing it each year.
Right now slalom doesn't have that. You can get all the 30 and 40s something together on weekends you want but eventually the sport will die. Get a bunch of 30-40 year olds out WITH alot of 10-19 year old kicking their butts they you have something.
Longboard slalom (and the other types I mentioned above) are a great gateway....but who is to say tight slalom isn't either? it got me into the sport and a few others I know.....all under 30 (which isn't that young but it is a start).
again the tme is now to be able to present all types of slalom without having to feel guilty for liking one over the other and only being interested in one or two.....specialists are a very good thing.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-02 15:24 ]</font>
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- 1961-2013 (RIP)
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And while I'm at it, I'd also like to mention a couple of things about the Georgia State Race this weekend: I got to help set the hybrid course. Yippee!
Me, Byrddog and Parsons set up a course that in essence contained "segments" we preferred. We didn't really set the course by committee, but more by just grabbing a few cones and setting a section the way we wanted it to be. It had some offsets, some wiggles, a really cool wide open curve (my contribution) some more offsets and I included one of my "against the grain" diagonals that sent the rider across the centerline from left to right. All in all, a little bit of everything on a really good hill.
The concensus was that most everyone (except WesE,) liked the course. Hollien said it "alright" and that was good enough for me. If he found it worth riding at his skill level, then I figured everyone would have a good time getting down. It wasn't "too" tight and it wasn't "too" loose so as to be boring. Theoretically we probably could have made it tighter, but then only a few skaters in the race would have really been able to blaze on it and we would have seen more falls. Fortunately, I don't think we had a splatter all day and the racing was very intense.
What's the moral of all this? Well, I guess it's to say that "tighter" is a relative term. One man's tight is another man's boring cruise down a hill. I think we found a decent compromise at the race Saturday so that everyone was challenged enough to bring out the best in everyone. Of course, any course on a hill that is just right you can adjust cone distance with speed: theoretically, if the cones are too far apart for you then you should be able to increase velocity and make the cones appear closer. Theoretically, that is.
Where the problem comes in with some courses is cones too far apart on too shallow a hill and then you get neither speed nor a challenged competitor. Were the cones too loose at The Georgia State Race? Probably for some. Were the cones too close together at Da' Farm? Probably for some. The trick, I would suppose, is being a diversified enough skater so as to adapt to any course under any conditions and still be competitive.
I don't know about anyone else, but that's really what I'm aiming for.
Me, Byrddog and Parsons set up a course that in essence contained "segments" we preferred. We didn't really set the course by committee, but more by just grabbing a few cones and setting a section the way we wanted it to be. It had some offsets, some wiggles, a really cool wide open curve (my contribution) some more offsets and I included one of my "against the grain" diagonals that sent the rider across the centerline from left to right. All in all, a little bit of everything on a really good hill.
The concensus was that most everyone (except WesE,) liked the course. Hollien said it "alright" and that was good enough for me. If he found it worth riding at his skill level, then I figured everyone would have a good time getting down. It wasn't "too" tight and it wasn't "too" loose so as to be boring. Theoretically we probably could have made it tighter, but then only a few skaters in the race would have really been able to blaze on it and we would have seen more falls. Fortunately, I don't think we had a splatter all day and the racing was very intense.
What's the moral of all this? Well, I guess it's to say that "tighter" is a relative term. One man's tight is another man's boring cruise down a hill. I think we found a decent compromise at the race Saturday so that everyone was challenged enough to bring out the best in everyone. Of course, any course on a hill that is just right you can adjust cone distance with speed: theoretically, if the cones are too far apart for you then you should be able to increase velocity and make the cones appear closer. Theoretically, that is.
Where the problem comes in with some courses is cones too far apart on too shallow a hill and then you get neither speed nor a challenged competitor. Were the cones too loose at The Georgia State Race? Probably for some. Were the cones too close together at Da' Farm? Probably for some. The trick, I would suppose, is being a diversified enough skater so as to adapt to any course under any conditions and still be competitive.
I don't know about anyone else, but that's really what I'm aiming for.
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- 1961-2013 (RIP)
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What's sad about all this is there is a good discussion going on here about the sport growing and seeing NEW TYPES of courses.
Someone will then come along and announce, "f#@k you. How dare you discuss something different? If you don't like what is happening, then do it yourself!"
And then someone else will stick their nose into the conversation and exclaim, "anyone who wants something different should be flogged in the public square!"
And all of this goes on while at the same time there's the ever constant cry of, "we want your feedback because only knowing what people are thinking will we ever be able to make things better!"
The good thing about SS.com is that at least we can determine what someone else THINKS without a litany of abuse from someone else who decides what is and isn't acceptable THOUGHTS about slalom.
P.S. And yes, I said "f#@k you" on purpose. Sometimes very nasty sentiments can only be described with very nasty words. If a 12-year old comes to this site and reads my words, all I can say is have you been in a Junior High School recently?
Someone will then come along and announce, "f#@k you. How dare you discuss something different? If you don't like what is happening, then do it yourself!"
And then someone else will stick their nose into the conversation and exclaim, "anyone who wants something different should be flogged in the public square!"
And all of this goes on while at the same time there's the ever constant cry of, "we want your feedback because only knowing what people are thinking will we ever be able to make things better!"
The good thing about SS.com is that at least we can determine what someone else THINKS without a litany of abuse from someone else who decides what is and isn't acceptable THOUGHTS about slalom.
P.S. And yes, I said "f#@k you" on purpose. Sometimes very nasty sentiments can only be described with very nasty words. If a 12-year old comes to this site and reads my words, all I can say is have you been in a Junior High School recently?
I agree with you TK....that is why I think all types of slalom SHOULD exist.
Longboard slalom is a good gateway for the sport....as is park slalom and banked slalom...even slalom/boarder-cross. However I personally have zero interest in racing any of those five types. That doesn't make those forms of slalom any less valid (or fun for some) just because "I" don't want to do them. Add some of the current mentality of "if you don't like our type of slalom you are a kook and suck" or "if you don't like it you aren't a slalom racer" or best yet "if even one person disagrees with the way we say it is we are taking our cones and timer and giving up/going home"...THAT becomes a problem and I am commenting on that attitude mainly.
Over the past 3 years there has been a very inclusive attitude to course setting and such, which is great, it has gotten some people into slalom. it should continue.
That being said.....we also need to make sure diversity exists in slalom. Right now, unless you dig for it is hard to see anything other than longboard slalom (or one type of slalom to be more PC). Only recently have we seen events billed out of the norm (i.e. the Georgia race selling the fact it had an ISSA parallel slalom).
The gathering this past May was another extreme. Some of us had a great time on the main courses. Most couldn't make them or even felt their skill level was good enough to try. That was not good given what the event is billed as. BUT! Those who were there and riding/racing those courses DID have an amazing time and commented on wanting more racing like that.
Events like Da Farm have done a good job blending alot of skill levels and course types, it has from day one. However this event is unique for that (among many) reasons.
I think slalom is at a point where specialists again can come forward. If people see riders killing an insane tight/tech course that may get them ito it in the same way as longboards do for some people. There is enough people riding at a moderate to high skill level right now where events can be run with very tough courses and limited qualifiers. if you don't make the cut, practice harder.
The inclusive "everyone goes home with a prize" type of racing is great to get people involved (also some people want no more from slalom that just that). But racing that only a handful of people can make the course and winner takes all has it's place now too.
We just need to keep this entire thing balanced. If we favor any one side or type of racing the ship will eventually tip and sink. None of us want that.
Variety is good and it has to start somewhere and at sometime. Now is a good time.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-02 14:27 ]</font>
Longboard slalom is a good gateway for the sport....as is park slalom and banked slalom...even slalom/boarder-cross. However I personally have zero interest in racing any of those five types. That doesn't make those forms of slalom any less valid (or fun for some) just because "I" don't want to do them. Add some of the current mentality of "if you don't like our type of slalom you are a kook and suck" or "if you don't like it you aren't a slalom racer" or best yet "if even one person disagrees with the way we say it is we are taking our cones and timer and giving up/going home"...THAT becomes a problem and I am commenting on that attitude mainly.
Over the past 3 years there has been a very inclusive attitude to course setting and such, which is great, it has gotten some people into slalom. it should continue.
That being said.....we also need to make sure diversity exists in slalom. Right now, unless you dig for it is hard to see anything other than longboard slalom (or one type of slalom to be more PC). Only recently have we seen events billed out of the norm (i.e. the Georgia race selling the fact it had an ISSA parallel slalom).
The gathering this past May was another extreme. Some of us had a great time on the main courses. Most couldn't make them or even felt their skill level was good enough to try. That was not good given what the event is billed as. BUT! Those who were there and riding/racing those courses DID have an amazing time and commented on wanting more racing like that.
Events like Da Farm have done a good job blending alot of skill levels and course types, it has from day one. However this event is unique for that (among many) reasons.
I think slalom is at a point where specialists again can come forward. If people see riders killing an insane tight/tech course that may get them ito it in the same way as longboards do for some people. There is enough people riding at a moderate to high skill level right now where events can be run with very tough courses and limited qualifiers. if you don't make the cut, practice harder.
The inclusive "everyone goes home with a prize" type of racing is great to get people involved (also some people want no more from slalom that just that). But racing that only a handful of people can make the course and winner takes all has it's place now too.
We just need to keep this entire thing balanced. If we favor any one side or type of racing the ship will eventually tip and sink. None of us want that.
Variety is good and it has to start somewhere and at sometime. Now is a good time.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-02 14:27 ]</font>
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- Moscow-Washington
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Er'rite. We enjoy goo teknikal GeeAs as much as da goo teknikal TeeAs.
Itz hard to grow slalom anyway you look at it. Segregation will not get it anywhere. And so won't loU-tek longboard crawling down a steep hill at over 30 MPH (There are alpine snowboards for that. And 50 MPH is not that uncommon. Inna turn!)
Glad.
Itz hard to grow slalom anyway you look at it. Segregation will not get it anywhere. And so won't loU-tek longboard crawling down a steep hill at over 30 MPH (There are alpine snowboards for that. And 50 MPH is not that uncommon. Inna turn!)
Glad.
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- Team RoeRacing
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Slalom as a sport is far to small to have dissention in the troops.
If our goal is to grow the sport which I hope it is, we need to embrace ALL types of Slalom. What good is true TS if only 3 guys can do it well? Longboard slalom is the gateway to slalom.Case in point, Lisa and her daughters. Hardcore longboarders introduced to slalom on a course they could ride their LB's on. Now, 6mo later they are attending races, buying gear, spreading the word. I'm not saying don't be a specialist, thats fine. But support it all, GS, TS , LBS. In 5 years you'll have enough good racers to have the true TS you yearn for.
If our goal is to grow the sport which I hope it is, we need to embrace ALL types of Slalom. What good is true TS if only 3 guys can do it well? Longboard slalom is the gateway to slalom.Case in point, Lisa and her daughters. Hardcore longboarders introduced to slalom on a course they could ride their LB's on. Now, 6mo later they are attending races, buying gear, spreading the word. I'm not saying don't be a specialist, thats fine. But support it all, GS, TS , LBS. In 5 years you'll have enough good racers to have the true TS you yearn for.
vlad...you are alot more militant about alot of these issues than I and I love you for it...
I know things get twisted and such everywhere, I do it daily for my job with images and graphic design. The bigger issue is the common mentality in slalom right now that bigger/faster is better or more manly (the "more manly" part being a good 80% of it) is bunk. Ride what you like, race organizers can set what they like...more power to them. However riders can voice their opinion the best when they show up to certian races and not to others.
it is actually good to have race series that favor different course types. It gives everyone and outlet to ride what they like. We already have a series that favors bigger/faster/more manly courses. That is great for people who like that! I want to see a series that favors more technical tighter courses. That too will be great for those who favor that.
Slalom should grow beyond what my personal narrow interest is. It should go beyond that...but that doesn't mean I HAVE to go race in races with courses I know I won't do wellin or enjoy in because I never practice said course. If I did go race on such a course I would be prepared for said course type in advance. The thing is that I no longer care to prepare myself for those "manly" courses. That is my opinion and my interest....if someone doesn't agree fine.
The more we as racers have to choose from the better. There should be more than one game in town. Currently there is only one (and before they start complaining to me about it kudos FOR that one race series being out there...)...but it seems another one or two are sprouting up lately.. they seem to be favoring different courses types. That is cool. Why do we need to replicate the same type of thing everywhere.
Besides racing IS about specialization. Sure you can have those few natual savant like talents that can dominate in any given event but they are few. Most people focus on their interest or what they are good at, if those two things are the same it is a win/win for the person. I enjoy riding a plank in tighter or more technical courses...I have no interest in riding longboards, skating a pool, riding a park, crusing on a cruiser, racing on a downhill board, etc....
if I want speed and big turns I like my snowboards (hardboots)....I look for other things on my slalom skateboard.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-02 13:28 ]</font>
I know things get twisted and such everywhere, I do it daily for my job with images and graphic design. The bigger issue is the common mentality in slalom right now that bigger/faster is better or more manly (the "more manly" part being a good 80% of it) is bunk. Ride what you like, race organizers can set what they like...more power to them. However riders can voice their opinion the best when they show up to certian races and not to others.
it is actually good to have race series that favor different course types. It gives everyone and outlet to ride what they like. We already have a series that favors bigger/faster/more manly courses. That is great for people who like that! I want to see a series that favors more technical tighter courses. That too will be great for those who favor that.
Slalom should grow beyond what my personal narrow interest is. It should go beyond that...but that doesn't mean I HAVE to go race in races with courses I know I won't do wellin or enjoy in because I never practice said course. If I did go race on such a course I would be prepared for said course type in advance. The thing is that I no longer care to prepare myself for those "manly" courses. That is my opinion and my interest....if someone doesn't agree fine.
The more we as racers have to choose from the better. There should be more than one game in town. Currently there is only one (and before they start complaining to me about it kudos FOR that one race series being out there...)...but it seems another one or two are sprouting up lately.. they seem to be favoring different courses types. That is cool. Why do we need to replicate the same type of thing everywhere.
Besides racing IS about specialization. Sure you can have those few natual savant like talents that can dominate in any given event but they are few. Most people focus on their interest or what they are good at, if those two things are the same it is a win/win for the person. I enjoy riding a plank in tighter or more technical courses...I have no interest in riding longboards, skating a pool, riding a park, crusing on a cruiser, racing on a downhill board, etc....
if I want speed and big turns I like my snowboards (hardboots)....I look for other things on my slalom skateboard.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-02 13:28 ]</font>
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- Moscow-Washington
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Mr. Stepanek! Lucky you!
You are being quoted.
Ask yourself this question: how cool is that that you're being quoted by anyone?
If a pro-media were to post an interview with you anywhere, or show you on TV, they'd twist things in a way to make their story. Not to deliver yours. Twisting the truth and ripping stuff out of the context is used everywhere by practically everyone. If some cockroach without any writing skills (hell, without even Proper English!) does that, why should it be any different?
1. Attention is grabbed
2. An issue is created
3. Truth – twisted
4. Attention- channeled
Good stuff for slalom. At least a powerful source of propaganda spreads the joy of slalom for free!
___________________________________________
Now between you and me.
I think you're getting famous JUST for speaking out your thoughts! It's not really fare, but is rather cool.
And the * who twists your words doesn't even know what he's doing.... When in fact he's doing the same thing we're - Putting an ASS back in TS. Or whatever
The more that * and his * and *s talk/s shit, the better it is.
And UR famous...for just saying the naked truth...or whatever YOU believe the truth is.
Longboard crawling around the cones stops here.
Begin slalom.
Cheers.
You are being quoted.
Ask yourself this question: how cool is that that you're being quoted by anyone?
If a pro-media were to post an interview with you anywhere, or show you on TV, they'd twist things in a way to make their story. Not to deliver yours. Twisting the truth and ripping stuff out of the context is used everywhere by practically everyone. If some cockroach without any writing skills (hell, without even Proper English!) does that, why should it be any different?
1. Attention is grabbed
2. An issue is created
3. Truth – twisted
4. Attention- channeled
Good stuff for slalom. At least a powerful source of propaganda spreads the joy of slalom for free!
___________________________________________
Now between you and me.
I think you're getting famous JUST for speaking out your thoughts! It's not really fare, but is rather cool.
And the * who twists your words doesn't even know what he's doing.... When in fact he's doing the same thing we're - Putting an ASS back in TS. Or whatever

The more that * and his * and *s talk/s shit, the better it is.
And UR famous...for just saying the naked truth...or whatever YOU believe the truth is.
Longboard crawling around the cones stops here.
Begin slalom.
Cheers.
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- Corky - World Ranking Supervisor
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When persons are using the forums only for their personal vendettas they will tend to twist things to whatever they like, to be able to get at you.
Chris, you could actually see that the postive way. It means you are probably right. If you where wrong someone would have aimed at your mistake. Since no mistake was found they will go for "the twist".
Chris, you could actually see that the postive way. It means you are probably right. If you where wrong someone would have aimed at your mistake. Since no mistake was found they will go for "the twist".
Adam,
I try not to drag anything over to this site but somehow it follows me. I just have a problem with people twisting my statements for their own purpose and wanted to make sure the record is straight here for those that are come here looking for it.
Otherwise I could care less what people I have no respect for think of me.
as for TS....it is what I enjoy. Part of what excited me about slalom in the first place is the dscipline needed to be a top racer. You look at the 90s european courses and riding and see it. When you watch Luca, Jani and Gilmour and now Vlad run a slalom course like that you can see it all. Those skillsets are intensified in tight/technical courses.
The big drawn out GS courses are fine..but if I want to make big long turns at those speeds I'll do it on my snowboard(s) where I have MUCH better grip on the surface and can do it twice as fast. I raced super-g and normal slalom on snowboards for years a long time ago. Replicating that on skateboards isn't my interest.
I'll run big courses. I own a 36" deck with 75mm wheels...but I myself am happiest on tighter more tech courses that require a plank...
Lucky for me I skate with some people who share that opinion.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-02 12:29 ]</font>
I try not to drag anything over to this site but somehow it follows me. I just have a problem with people twisting my statements for their own purpose and wanted to make sure the record is straight here for those that are come here looking for it.
Otherwise I could care less what people I have no respect for think of me.
as for TS....it is what I enjoy. Part of what excited me about slalom in the first place is the dscipline needed to be a top racer. You look at the 90s european courses and riding and see it. When you watch Luca, Jani and Gilmour and now Vlad run a slalom course like that you can see it all. Those skillsets are intensified in tight/technical courses.
The big drawn out GS courses are fine..but if I want to make big long turns at those speeds I'll do it on my snowboard(s) where I have MUCH better grip on the surface and can do it twice as fast. I raced super-g and normal slalom on snowboards for years a long time ago. Replicating that on skateboards isn't my interest.
I'll run big courses. I own a 36" deck with 75mm wheels...but I myself am happiest on tighter more tech courses that require a plank...
Lucky for me I skate with some people who share that opinion.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-02 12:29 ]</font>
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- Phoenix, AZ, USA
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Chris,
I read your post, there is nothing wrong with it.
Don't worry what other people or web sites think or write about you. Do what you do, have fun and don't drag that shit over here.
*grin*
Tighter more technical courses demand faster decisions. I see a Tight Slalom course as a MUCH FASTER course regarding decisions than ANY Giant Slalom course.
Both are cool.
Do what you do, you do it well and I am happy to be able to give you a choice in where you spend your time online, YOUR words are welcome here.
adam
I read your post, there is nothing wrong with it.
Don't worry what other people or web sites think or write about you. Do what you do, have fun and don't drag that shit over here.
*grin*
Tighter more technical courses demand faster decisions. I see a Tight Slalom course as a MUCH FASTER course regarding decisions than ANY Giant Slalom course.
Both are cool.
Do what you do, you do it well and I am happy to be able to give you a choice in where you spend your time online, YOUR words are welcome here.
adam
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- Jim Slater
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Skateboard Slalom VS Ski Slalom
I used to Ski in the winter months to keep in shape for Skateboarding in the summer.
The balance points are different, "feel those knees burning" and when I should have been "planting the pole" to turn I was raising! (On a left turn I was lifting my left arm - as in Skeateboarfing- instead of planting. I ended up fitshing the poles and skating the snow.
In England in the 70's there were two schools, Gowl riding was surf orientated and Slalom was ski orientated.
That was not necessarily true, but it was the mindset.
I believe that Skateboard Slalom is unique but it has roots elseware.
Tarmac and concrete is not snow and Ice and snow and vice-a-versa.
I can skate true parralell A-la Bob Piercy. but it is a crowd pleaser only.
The two cannot be compared but they do have similarities.
Snowboarding?....... now that's another story.
Keep it up guys, this site and all who post on it ROCK, big time
JIM SLATER
I used to Ski in the winter months to keep in shape for Skateboarding in the summer.
The balance points are different, "feel those knees burning" and when I should have been "planting the pole" to turn I was raising! (On a left turn I was lifting my left arm - as in Skeateboarfing- instead of planting. I ended up fitshing the poles and skating the snow.
In England in the 70's there were two schools, Gowl riding was surf orientated and Slalom was ski orientated.
That was not necessarily true, but it was the mindset.
I believe that Skateboard Slalom is unique but it has roots elseware.
Tarmac and concrete is not snow and Ice and snow and vice-a-versa.
I can skate true parralell A-la Bob Piercy. but it is a crowd pleaser only.
The two cannot be compared but they do have similarities.
Snowboarding?....... now that's another story.
Keep it up guys, this site and all who post on it ROCK, big time
JIM SLATER
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- GBJ
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Hans, I think that we probably enjoy the same things, and could agree on most. Clearly skateboarding originally seems to stem from surfing, and I have no evidence to the contrary. I simply believe, based on the quotes of many of the slalom racers who were my heroes back in the days of my youth, that slalom came into skateboarding as an influence from ski racing. I'm not saying that skateboarding originated from a skiing influence, just the slalom skateboard racing discipline.
What I don't understand is why you said, "Aha, and that's maybe why I don't like parallell stance in slalom skating. Because then it becomes skiing." Why are you so committed to resisting the existence of a ski influence? Is skiing bad and surfing good? I only know this... in the small world of my youth, my family, there was absolutely nobody who ever surfed before skateboarding came along, but most of us had skied. Furthermore, of the four of my family members who either did or do skate slalom, only one of us has ever surfed, me, and that was more than eight years after I skated through my first slalom course.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Andy Bittner on 2003-08-31 22:12 ]</font>
What I don't understand is why you said, "Aha, and that's maybe why I don't like parallell stance in slalom skating. Because then it becomes skiing." Why are you so committed to resisting the existence of a ski influence? Is skiing bad and surfing good? I only know this... in the small world of my youth, my family, there was absolutely nobody who ever surfed before skateboarding came along, but most of us had skied. Furthermore, of the four of my family members who either did or do skate slalom, only one of us has ever surfed, me, and that was more than eight years after I skated through my first slalom course.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Andy Bittner on 2003-08-31 22:12 ]</font>
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- Corky - World Ranking Supervisor
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Andy, and others.
Nice post by the way Andy but I still don't agree that skateboarding and skiing is the same. As I see it they are in two different branches, surf and ski. On the surf branch we have surfboarding, skateboarding, snowboarding, sandboarding, skimboarding and even waterskiing when using only one ski to name a few. On the ski branch you have skiing, rollerskating and rollerblades, waterskiing (with two skies) and the likes. Come to think of it maybe it's the stance that make the difference. Mono skiing for example is skiing whilst snowbarding is surfing. And that is so depending on stance. Even if they used the same board the stance and the different technique would separate them. Aha, and that's maybe why I don't like parallell stance in slalom skating. Because then it becomes skiing.
Maybe there are many skaters thinking "big deal". I know there are many who likes the two branches and if you do maybe you don't see the difference. But it's there weather you see it or not.
Then of course I exagerate when I say that they have nothing to do with each other. Of course there are things that resambles. But then again skate slalom can resamble car driving as well. Who hasn't been doing slalom with his car?
A little ski/surfing branch story
In Paris this year the competition was organizing the two branches together. Skateboard slalom and rollerblade slalom. Not only did I get the feeling that it's two different kind of people/worlds doing these disciplines, even though JG tried his best to build bridges by doing some Travolta dancing on a pair of rollerblades, it also looks compleatly different. Not to talk about their one foot slalom but even when they where running our slalom course it was... something else.
As I have said before I don't like mixing these branches but I'm afraid it will happen again next year. Because in France rollerskating belongs to the French surfing association as do skateboarding.
Especially sad it will be if it will be considered as the World skateboard slalom championships. I don't see any place or reason having rollerblades connected with that. As I think the rollerbladers would think too if it was the other way around.
Nice post by the way Andy but I still don't agree that skateboarding and skiing is the same. As I see it they are in two different branches, surf and ski. On the surf branch we have surfboarding, skateboarding, snowboarding, sandboarding, skimboarding and even waterskiing when using only one ski to name a few. On the ski branch you have skiing, rollerskating and rollerblades, waterskiing (with two skies) and the likes. Come to think of it maybe it's the stance that make the difference. Mono skiing for example is skiing whilst snowbarding is surfing. And that is so depending on stance. Even if they used the same board the stance and the different technique would separate them. Aha, and that's maybe why I don't like parallell stance in slalom skating. Because then it becomes skiing.
Maybe there are many skaters thinking "big deal". I know there are many who likes the two branches and if you do maybe you don't see the difference. But it's there weather you see it or not.
Then of course I exagerate when I say that they have nothing to do with each other. Of course there are things that resambles. But then again skate slalom can resamble car driving as well. Who hasn't been doing slalom with his car?
A little ski/surfing branch story
In Paris this year the competition was organizing the two branches together. Skateboard slalom and rollerblade slalom. Not only did I get the feeling that it's two different kind of people/worlds doing these disciplines, even though JG tried his best to build bridges by doing some Travolta dancing on a pair of rollerblades, it also looks compleatly different. Not to talk about their one foot slalom but even when they where running our slalom course it was... something else.
As I have said before I don't like mixing these branches but I'm afraid it will happen again next year. Because in France rollerskating belongs to the French surfing association as do skateboarding.
Especially sad it will be if it will be considered as the World skateboard slalom championships. I don't see any place or reason having rollerblades connected with that. As I think the rollerbladers would think too if it was the other way around.
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- Octane Sport (RIP)
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- Jim Slater
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I was an avid skiier before picking up slalom skateboarding and had raced a lot. The first time I skated cones I was amazed at how similar it was to skiing. In particular, bump skiing, but also slalom.
Because it is reminiscient of skiing is in large part why I do it.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Troy Smart on 2003-08-31 10:12 ]</font>
Because it is reminiscient of skiing is in large part why I do it.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Troy Smart on 2003-08-31 10:12 ]</font>
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- GBJ
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Hans... my bad. I hate these little symbols, put I probably should've put one of these
on my post. There's no question that the meaning of "slalom" has evolved well beyond the root meaning. Slalom waterskiing has existed for years, and that's about as flat as standing water can get.
However, the statement "What I mean is that (ski) slalom has nothing to do with skateboard slalom." couldn't be further from the truth. In my own personal experience, the first skateboard that came into my family home did so when I was about four years old (1967). It was a gift from my father's skiing buddies to my father, as a snowless skiing alternative, and one of the earliest things my Dad and older brother did with it, once they were proficient in basic riding, was to begin setting slalom courses. In my family, skateboarding was originally directly related to skiing, which is why the first thing I ever learned to do on a skateboard (1970) was race on slalom courses. Ski slalom in the winter and skateboard slalom in the summer.
Furthermore, you should know that most of the 1970s-era Skateboarder interviews with the pioneers of slalom skateboarding make direct reference to the influence of skiing slalom. I actually investigated this several years ago, for a discussion on Ncdsa.com, and found that there were references to skiing's influence on slalom skateboarding in interviews with Hester, Piercy, Skoldberg, Ransom/Evans and maybe some others (Hutson?). In fact, if I recall correctly, it was Ransom or Evans who said they were actually watching a ski race on television and decided to take it outside and give it a rip on skateboards.
Having said all of that, I really do agree that slalom is a discipline, while pumping is a skill. One needn't be doing one in order to be doing the other. I hope slalom keeps using hills AND I hope slalom always retains the need for pumping as an important, basic racing skill. I hope skateboarding evolves to include distance-type pumping races that aren't slalom-like. I like it all, but through roughly 20 years of slalom-type skateboarding on my own, I found two things caused me to become bored: cones in a neat, straight, even line and cones on flat. I find that these two situations can be extremely beneficial for training, but if all slalom skateboard racing became flat and straight, it wouldn't interest me any more than waterski slalom racing does, and waterskiing slalom doesn't interest me in the least.
I trained dead-straight, flat courses for years. I ran 'em at 4 ft., 4.5 ft., and rarely over 5, and I believe the experience was valuable to my riding and my health. My current racing and my health would probably be well-served if I were to resume such training, but that doesn't mean that I hope slalom skateboard racing goes that way.
My personal belief is that the greatest potential for slalom skateboarding's longevity lies in not allowing the definition of "slalom skateboarding" to become too narrow in any particular direction. This is our sport. We're going to decide what it is and what it isn't. If we define our sport into a narrow, little pigeon-hole, we're going to kill it... again.
As for "TS" on a hill... anyone who ran the tight course I set for The 3rd Gathering, on Friday of that weekend, knows what I think tight, hill slalom should be. If I recall correctly, there were a significant number of good slalomers who were calling it too tight, too hard, and who just couldn't make it. I could run that course clean. I don't understand how others, who I regard as being better slalomers than I, couldn't manage it. That course was what I consider to be an expert-level, tight slalom course.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Andy Bittner on 2003-08-31 09:36 ]</font>

However, the statement "What I mean is that (ski) slalom has nothing to do with skateboard slalom." couldn't be further from the truth. In my own personal experience, the first skateboard that came into my family home did so when I was about four years old (1967). It was a gift from my father's skiing buddies to my father, as a snowless skiing alternative, and one of the earliest things my Dad and older brother did with it, once they were proficient in basic riding, was to begin setting slalom courses. In my family, skateboarding was originally directly related to skiing, which is why the first thing I ever learned to do on a skateboard (1970) was race on slalom courses. Ski slalom in the winter and skateboard slalom in the summer.
Furthermore, you should know that most of the 1970s-era Skateboarder interviews with the pioneers of slalom skateboarding make direct reference to the influence of skiing slalom. I actually investigated this several years ago, for a discussion on Ncdsa.com, and found that there were references to skiing's influence on slalom skateboarding in interviews with Hester, Piercy, Skoldberg, Ransom/Evans and maybe some others (Hutson?). In fact, if I recall correctly, it was Ransom or Evans who said they were actually watching a ski race on television and decided to take it outside and give it a rip on skateboards.
Having said all of that, I really do agree that slalom is a discipline, while pumping is a skill. One needn't be doing one in order to be doing the other. I hope slalom keeps using hills AND I hope slalom always retains the need for pumping as an important, basic racing skill. I hope skateboarding evolves to include distance-type pumping races that aren't slalom-like. I like it all, but through roughly 20 years of slalom-type skateboarding on my own, I found two things caused me to become bored: cones in a neat, straight, even line and cones on flat. I find that these two situations can be extremely beneficial for training, but if all slalom skateboard racing became flat and straight, it wouldn't interest me any more than waterski slalom racing does, and waterskiing slalom doesn't interest me in the least.
I trained dead-straight, flat courses for years. I ran 'em at 4 ft., 4.5 ft., and rarely over 5, and I believe the experience was valuable to my riding and my health. My current racing and my health would probably be well-served if I were to resume such training, but that doesn't mean that I hope slalom skateboard racing goes that way.
My personal belief is that the greatest potential for slalom skateboarding's longevity lies in not allowing the definition of "slalom skateboarding" to become too narrow in any particular direction. This is our sport. We're going to decide what it is and what it isn't. If we define our sport into a narrow, little pigeon-hole, we're going to kill it... again.
As for "TS" on a hill... anyone who ran the tight course I set for The 3rd Gathering, on Friday of that weekend, knows what I think tight, hill slalom should be. If I recall correctly, there were a significant number of good slalomers who were calling it too tight, too hard, and who just couldn't make it. I could run that course clean. I don't understand how others, who I regard as being better slalomers than I, couldn't manage it. That course was what I consider to be an expert-level, tight slalom course.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Andy Bittner on 2003-08-31 09:36 ]</font>
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- Corky - World Ranking Supervisor
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Funny little tight story from Paris.
The Audience in Paris found often that the AM tight slalomers where faster than the PRO's. What they didn't know was that the PRO's had a tighter cone distance (2,0m) compared to the AM's (2,5m). So let the PRO's have tighter courses if they want to. It will only make us AM's look better.
The Audience in Paris found often that the AM tight slalomers where faster than the PRO's. What they didn't know was that the PRO's had a tighter cone distance (2,0m) compared to the AM's (2,5m). So let the PRO's have tighter courses if they want to. It will only make us AM's look better.

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- Corky - World Ranking Supervisor
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First of all my comment on cheating when pumping downhill was of course only to tease JG.
But it did lead us into a very interesting topic. The definition of skateboard slalom. Another subject that would fit the missing "Rules and regulations" section by the way. I checked my Swedish dictionary and there slalom means a slope with poles. But what wasn't mentioned above was that it refers to skiing. Slalom is skiing. Not skateboarding or even snowboarding. And even if we disregard that it means that we should all follow those Japanese guys setting up slalom courses using poles. I already sense Stride heading for the Reply button.
What I mean is that (ski) slalom has nothing to do with skateboard slalom. Some of you may remember competitions in the not always so good old times when they set courses with double cones. Just like they did in (ski) slalom. The course in front of you looked like a bomb hade scattered the cones all around. Horrible. And all because someone had done the fatal mistake in believing that (ski) slalom was the same as skateboard slalom.
I think nowadays those connections don't exist anymore. And slalom skateboarding on flat or downhill or even uphill still would fit into MY definition of it. But it's true that we don't have a dictionnary version explaining it. I'll leave that to you English speaking persons.
A few words on pumping. It's true that I wouldn't like to call what we are doing for PUMPING instead of slalom (from now on slalom is always referring to skateboard slalom
). For me there is no connection between the two. Slalom is a discipline description. Pumping is a technique. You can slalom without pumping. And you can pump without doing slalom.
But slalom without pumping, is that the slalom we are aiming for? For me that is the beginner slalom. And the more you learn how to pump the course the better you get in my eyes.
That's why I like flat courses in a way. Because it shows beginners what it is all about. Howcome Mr Flat Newbie doesn't have speed to make it to the end of the course while Mr Hotshot is coming out of the course much faster than he goes into it. Mr "Flat" Newbie will quickly understand that there is more to slalom than turning.
For Mr Hill Newbie that is not so obvious. He is doing fine just turning so why change anything.
Don't misunderstand me now. I like doing slalom on downhill courses. But what I don't like is when you can't pump them. And downhill and tight slalom together tends to result in turning/wiggle slalom more than pumping slalom. Unless you are extremly good of course. I don't say that one is more right than the other. I just say I prefer when I can pump them. And when I start to wiggle it's telling me this hill is too steep for the slalom I want to do. Maybe it only shows that I'm not good enough to take on certain hills. So be it. It doesn't make me cry at nights. Because I know I'm not the only one.
But it did lead us into a very interesting topic. The definition of skateboard slalom. Another subject that would fit the missing "Rules and regulations" section by the way. I checked my Swedish dictionary and there slalom means a slope with poles. But what wasn't mentioned above was that it refers to skiing. Slalom is skiing. Not skateboarding or even snowboarding. And even if we disregard that it means that we should all follow those Japanese guys setting up slalom courses using poles. I already sense Stride heading for the Reply button.
What I mean is that (ski) slalom has nothing to do with skateboard slalom. Some of you may remember competitions in the not always so good old times when they set courses with double cones. Just like they did in (ski) slalom. The course in front of you looked like a bomb hade scattered the cones all around. Horrible. And all because someone had done the fatal mistake in believing that (ski) slalom was the same as skateboard slalom.
I think nowadays those connections don't exist anymore. And slalom skateboarding on flat or downhill or even uphill still would fit into MY definition of it. But it's true that we don't have a dictionnary version explaining it. I'll leave that to you English speaking persons.
A few words on pumping. It's true that I wouldn't like to call what we are doing for PUMPING instead of slalom (from now on slalom is always referring to skateboard slalom

But slalom without pumping, is that the slalom we are aiming for? For me that is the beginner slalom. And the more you learn how to pump the course the better you get in my eyes.
That's why I like flat courses in a way. Because it shows beginners what it is all about. Howcome Mr Flat Newbie doesn't have speed to make it to the end of the course while Mr Hotshot is coming out of the course much faster than he goes into it. Mr "Flat" Newbie will quickly understand that there is more to slalom than turning.
For Mr Hill Newbie that is not so obvious. He is doing fine just turning so why change anything.
Don't misunderstand me now. I like doing slalom on downhill courses. But what I don't like is when you can't pump them. And downhill and tight slalom together tends to result in turning/wiggle slalom more than pumping slalom. Unless you are extremly good of course. I don't say that one is more right than the other. I just say I prefer when I can pump them. And when I start to wiggle it's telling me this hill is too steep for the slalom I want to do. Maybe it only shows that I'm not good enough to take on certain hills. So be it. It doesn't make me cry at nights. Because I know I'm not the only one.
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