Let's make it tighter

Mike Johnson · Post by **Mike Johnson** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:25 pm

Kids have low weight CofG so they get through cones quicker....so short legged fat dudes also have low CofG's....the rub gets to a point where the course is longer and kids get tired faster.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 10:03 pm

Kids also have smaller calves- enabling them to cut a nice tight clean line....go KIDS!!!

Michael Stride · Post by **Michael Stride** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:51 pm

Hi. My degree is in Law, so i'll argue anything with anyone!

Tight courses are fun, and actually they get easier if you go faster. Odd, hard to explain, but true. Effort is rewrded ten fold. I enjoy the psychological battle of entering a course at extreme speed and trusting your body and brain to get you through. 4 cones a second has to be fun and challenging doesn't it? The course on Sunday at Morro was indeed tight, but not very offset, and as such was not an especially 'European' style course. The kids that did well had boards that turn, often tweaked that way because they need them that way for all courses due to their lack of weight. They all did exceptionnally well, but a good look at who won, who placed etc and who DQ'd will tell you that practice, skill and perhaps a little luck all played a factor. One other point is that the winners tended to pump and accelerate the whole course. Some skaters held back in order to control speed.

To my mind, tight, offset slalom, on the flat or hills is extremely exciting. Try it, you might just like it.

Claude Regnier · Post by **Claude Regnier** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 11:50 am

Hi Rich!

Both JG and Jon pretty muc hit what I was trying to express. The kids that did rank higher in qualifying then some of the other Open riders skated great.

The course was tight. Yes you are right about the feeling your knee's take. I used my Arthritis rub twice on Sunday along with several pain pills. I hadn't had to use many this year at all compared to the last couple of years.

Using a short set-up to run something Big is a little easier then ridding something big and driving it through something tight. Although as we have seen practice makes anything possible or alomost.

I do not hold a degree in either so congrats on yours.

Strides post beleow is also right on.
_________________
Many Happy Pumps!

[ This Message was edited by: Claude Regnier on 2003-10-02 12:03 ]

Jon Warburton · Post by **Jon Warburton** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 11:06 am

HI ALL
rich, although mass would not affect velocity in FREEFALL, skateboarding involves ROLLING. weight is a factor in reducing loss of momentum through wind resistance if nothing else. i dont know anyone who skates in a vacuum.

i dont care if the course is tight or open, its all skateboarding and an accomplished rider should be able to adapt. i used the same setup with a small truck adjustment to qualify in all 3 slaloms at antibes and i hadnt seen a skateboard in at least 3 months.
just ride the bloody things;)

Rich Stephens · Post by **Rich Stephens** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:46 am

Claude, my degree is in philosophy, not pyshics, but last time I checked, weight didn't have anything to do with downhill speed. Can you elaborate on what you mean?

John, I was stoked on the performance of the kids. My own 8 year old has started skating at the skatepark recently and perhaps he'll be inspired to join in the slalom stuff soon, too. We live just two hours from Morro Bay. I guess my aversion to the tight cone courses is that it looks too much like a sport like skiing, and less like the skateboarding I grew up with and practice (a more surf-style thing). This may also explain the difference in the California versus East Coast or landlocked European preferences to riding Skateboards (they don't have the surfing background). Or maybe I'm just afraid my knees wouldn't last two runs on a course like that, ha!

And as for the big boards, I felt that the size of boards ridden by the kids on the course Saturday, looked more appropriate for them than the size of board used by Luca (but I hope he keeps using it anyway). Something just looked right about the way the kids skated, especially this kid: http://free.inkfrog.com/pix/groff3/NathanMB.jpg who had the best style I saw all day Saturday (sorry Olson!). Once again, I think this is the surfing influence talking.

[ This Message was edited by: Rich Stephens on 2003-10-01 23:54 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Rich Stephens on 2003-10-01 23:59 ]

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:14 am

IMHO many of the kids ride TS decks and start with TS. Travel to a big hill is not always an option for a kid who gets home from school with no way to get around. So they set up cones and run TS. Also recent sales of GS decks probably have outstripped TS deck sizes. Kids naturally chose a deck that fits their feet- in most cases that would be a TS deck. I could see no reason why a kid with a size 5 mens foot would want to buy a 9.25+ inch wide slalom deck to start slaloming.

Claude Regnier · Post by **Claude Regnier** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:37 am

Rich, I'm glad to say that the kids skated great in the Tight Slalom. The ones that did finnish in the Top ten.

I believe there were 2 of them. 7th and 10th. They have trained really hard for these types of courses and thier equipment is shorter and does seem to fit through these gates a little easier with their present shoe sizes.

I'm sure when the stats are posted we will se that cones count likely played an integral part in the seeding.

The difference between Tight Slalom and other forms of Slalom (looser courses) is that Tight takes a lot of practice to ride it clean. You can ride it slow and make it through a little cleaner. I'm sure some chose that method and the kids moved right on right by them.

You can run a GS course on a big hill faster if your a big guy with less skill then a smaller racer with more skill. the wieght factor comes into play here.

Rich Stephens · Post by **Rich Stephens** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:01 am

From a spectator's perspective, it seems to me that tight slalom is totally unnatural for adult bodies. I think that fact that some of the young boys qualified as high as 10th in the open class in Morro Bay last weekend proves this: their bodies are more to scale with the course.

As a slalom spectator (and future competitor) and vert skater, I don't think the answer is to have the men train new ways of cramming their large bodies through these tiny courses. I think it's more appropriate to just stick to larger scale courses: Bigger hills, more speed, more danger, more all around skate skill needed, and more fun.

[ This Message was edited by: Rich Stephens on 2003-10-01 22:02 ]

Eddy Martinez · Post by **Eddy Martinez** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:03 pm

I have to agree with Vlad and John on this one. Experience counts. My first race was terrifying for me. But I have kept at this year. Several racers encouraged me to not give up and keep trying at the Luna Slalom Jam,Keith,Vlad,Goad,66,Byrdog,Rogue,GA Tom,John Harms. At the Georgia State Championships I was able to get 16th place in the tight slalom. There is nothing like being up on a start ramp with your heart beating 100mph and being totally focused on the course in front of you. Alexander Suvorov
also said " a good solution now is better than a perfect solution tommorrow". Eddy Tejas Outlaw

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:54 am

Actually I would be the first to try and win it on a Mountain board and then use the money to throw a real race.

I cringe when I see some of the older contests prior to ISSA.

And ISSA didn't stop promoters from throwing contests with substandard perameters. The Hamm Slamm had a surface so rough you would think they had just scarrified the pavement- not really an exaggeration. I know Hamm meant well- and people were excited to race- but bad hills, bad surfaces, dangerous or no run outs, are exactly the kinds of race perameters that we should not support.

Brady- your postulating on races is about the same as me telling you what type of bait is most effective for killing Oriental cockroaches - experience pays dividends. Get some local racing experience in- or at least go to the Georgia events. At lot of things make more sense after you have a few races under your belt.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 2:00 am

My Dear Brady.

I will organize a lil "nice-and-tight" ala "family-values" slalom cup in DC pretty soon. I thought of putting my $300 and naming it "win my money" Slalom Cup.

Ney. It shell be called the DC Open Brady Mitchel Slalom Cup.
That's all I could do for a dear friend like you at this point. I'm sure something good will happen if YOU try.

[ This Message was edited by: Vlad Popov on 2003-09-08 20:01 ]

Brady Mitchell · Post by **Brady Mitchell** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 1:44 am

Hans,
After reveiwing the ISSA site, I find more detail on who is picked for the course setting. It`s on the individual definitions for "special slalom" and giant slalom: that it states the pick is of *countries with the *team captain of those countries picking who from thier country shall set thier third of the course.

And yes I agree with you that USA gets the short end of the stick. I just don`t see an agreeable solution to this that would make it fair to the USA. And even if it were to be even viable in the USA by it`s self.

Can you imagine a race in california where states where the defining three parties, and course setters were to come from a team of each state?

Maybe for a "World title where associations have been in place a while. Currently, I still feel it should be the decision of the race organizer.

JG,
If someone plopped $100K to race on cobble stone, I`s bet you`d be the first to sign up.

Surface condition, slope, etc, can have a minimum standards set in as rules.

And Vlad,
What would it take to get your butt down here? JG came. So did PVD. Please tell me the PlankkR does not have limits?

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:24 pm

Brady,

About the course setting subject. This is a complicated one.

Here is the current ISSA rule

22. COURSE SETTING
The courses for special and straight parallel slalom should be set up by representatives from three countries selected by a lottery draw. This selection and the names of the representatives selected and their countries should be announced on the main information board the day before the contest.

The history behind the ISSA rule as I see it.

Whatever descision that was taken it was always a hot topic.
Soon we understood that there is no perfect way to do this without criticism.
When we realize that the critizism is something we will have to live with,
the question became more of:
"How do we solve this to minimize future criticism problem".
We should also remember that the rules was done for international PRO competitions.
For national competitions the rules and the way people looked at slalom normally was the same.
Between countries it wasn't.

In your case Brady when you say that if you where selected you wouldn't feel
ready for the task. No problem.
The ISSA rules atually minimizes just this risk by letting the country PICK a representative.
If the lott fell on you maybe you wouldn't be first in line to take on the job anyway.
Another representative from your country could be selected.
And if you where alone from your country you would still have 2 other pro's at your side.
Actually it happened all the time that someone didn't feel ready for the task.
Then the 2 others would do most of the work. That we could be in the situation that we
can't find any capable course setter in any of the 3 countries is theoretically true.
But I have never heard of it happen though.

So the current rule of selecting 3 racers I think is the best way to handle it.

But...

- The rules are not clear on describing how the selection is done.
If you are selecting 3 countries from a bowl of participating countries it wouldn't
be fair to a country like USA for example.
But what I remember that is not how it was done anyway.
You pick a participant from the start list until you have 3 countries.
So a country with many participants is more likely to have one representative.

- Now this is still not perfect today I agree because inside USA you (may) have different
course setting philosofies. There has been discussion of counting every state in US as
an ISSA country. Personally I don't think that is a bad idea.

- Again remember that the ISSA rules where designed for the PRO's only.
There where no amateur groupings in the sence it had been used in the States.
Actually Europe amateurs was the Junior group.
Grown up amateurs is something new in Europe, and it was about time.
That's why the PRO/AM division never was used in Europe in the old days.
I think that for national competitions and amateur courses the course setting is not
such a hot topic and could very well be set by the organizers.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:03 pm

"I have no ambitions of holding a World class event."
Brady Mitchel.

"A soldier who doesn't dream of becoming a general is not a good soldier".
Alexander Suvorov.

Brady Mitchell · Post by **Brady Mitchell** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:50 pm

Thanks for the promoting Vlad. What`s the old addage? "No such thing as bad publicity"?

Seriously though, I have no ambitions of holding a World class event at this time. And if I were to have any part as a slalom race promoter, I`d probably leave the course setting up to others...GBJ, Brian Parsons, etc...

My point in regards is that it SHOULDN`T always be mandatory that 3 odd balls get picked. Think about it, you (Vlad) go through the effort and expense of hosting a race and pick me (Brady) as a course setter.

And JG, as for as the ISSA and the wording of europe contests while totally ignoring the USA is exactly my point, Rules are made so there are no what if`s, could be`s, maybe they meant,,,yadda, yadda, yadda......

Just because ir worked for some in the past (not all) doesn`t mean it will work today. And there are easy fixes to the exsisting problems.

[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-08 19:21 ]

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:07 pm

Down with all that Slalom Utopia stuff! Let’s get real! The Brady Slalom World Series! Accept no substitutes!

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:11 pm

Maybe we should always let the promoters set the courses. If the promoter feels we should have a ten cone tight slalom and wants to put up $100,000 who are we to stop him.

If the promoter feels we should run slalom on cobblestone or in a space the size of a basketball court and wants to put up the prize money- that is the promoters preogative.

Let's be real here. Would you want the Promoter of a Formula One race that has never raced Formula One before design a track without input from other racers? You want CURRENT input from the racers. You want input from racers who are near the top now- not ones that set courses in the past or newbies that might set a great course in the future.

ISSA made that lottery draw thing a rule for the reason that many promoters in the past had no idea as to how to set a good slalom course for the levels they represent. They had no idea about runouts, surface quality, ramp size- how far apart the courses should be etc.- Hill speed and how it acculmulates for newbies vs pros - the type of offsets that are negiotiatable at high speed etc.

Also it wasn't always possible to have the same guys travel around and set courses- and it could get a bit stale that way. Drawing from the list of Pro competitors seemed to make the most sense- at least they were physically there. At times this process can fail- but overall it is probably a good idea.
A pre-published course is also a good idea.

ISSA Racers demanded rules that made for better racing...this was one of the rules they voted for. The racers raced. They knew from experience. They wanted other racers that came after them to BENEFIT from the mistakes they ENDURED from well intentioned promoters who did not know the effects of certain rule changes and the like.

In regards to Europe having its own body. It could be said that since the bulk of the racers in ISSA were European that it was the defacto Governing body of Europe. It also could be said since it was the Last working large organization that it was the defacto world governing body.

I see things working somewhat regionally.

West Coast Series, East Coast Series, Non Coast series. That = USA Series.

French Series (they have funding), German Series (they may have enough racers), Former Iron Curtain series (currency strengths restrict much travel), Swiss Series. That = Europe Series. Jani has a much better feel on this I am sure.

World Series race travels to one of the Major regions. Usually to a promoter who held one of the National Majors. Annually or Bianually?

For now the only places to likely be able to handle a world Series are France and the USA.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 5:02 pm

If there's "Brady East Coast Slalom Series" next year, I will participate in every single round no matter how loose or tight the courses are. One condition, though. Brady sets the rules and the courses.

Brady rules!

Thanks.

Brady Mitchell · Post by **Brady Mitchell** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:07 pm

Adam,
I would gladly help in any way towards a series on the east coast as I`m sure the others mentioned would as well.

I wouldn`t even mind including a standard set of rules such as the ISSA`s.

But I, "ME", personally would do so AFTER the RULES section is updated.

I feel that race organizers should have the course setting rights and it should not be up to 3 people picked from some lottery, as long as it`s within the predetermined specs of the ruling body...(ISSA?)

I also feel the section that speaks of the "Worlds" being held every other year and all that talk about the "Euro" comp needs a major overhaul. I mean, is there supposed to be a euro comp and a US comp seeding into the "Worlds"? Isn`t all of europe like less the size of all the U.S.?

If the ISSA wants to be a true "Worlds" governing body, they should let the "Euros" have thier own sanctioning body so as to have no lop-sided representation.

And maybe we ought to give the USSSA a chance at governing our slalom races.

[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-08 07:17 ]

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:28 pm

The idea here is dialog.

Looks like plenty of that going on.

Gilmour has a good perspective on this and so does Jack, Vlad, Troy and Chris and there are others.

I think Jack is listening...

I also think M.Dong has a good view of this but who is going to be able to put a series on in the East? I don't think it has to be a single person, it can be a series with people in the area of the race organizing. You guys need an organization, rules and you need representatives to run the races.

What FCR has done is honorable no doubt and I think your going to be hard pressed to eclipse it. I do think it can be done but the most likely way to get something going where you pull people from around the country, around the world in a East Coast series of races is to organize.

The answer has been discused ad naseum here. You guys who have thrown a race get together on organization, a set of rules and a calendar and do it. I bet you can do this and do it well. Your races will be from Florida to New York...

Gilmour, Kirby, Mitchel, Byrd, Tway, Bitner, McCree, Stanzial, Wes (there are others) are your organizers, ISSA rules, who has a calendar? The East Coast of America having a series from New York to Florida using an International set of rules that are founded in Europe? Sounds pretty good to me, anyone else have a better idea?

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:40 am

Michael, I'm all for the idea even though I'm having the golf world as my favorite for how to organize the world slalom scene.

In golf you have a whole lot of different tours going on. They all handle themselves quite independently. The two most important are the USPGA Tour and the European Tour.

During the year there are 4 majors. In the majors you expect to have the very best gathered whatever tour they play on. There are of course a lot of complex rules of how these persons are selected. Different tours and competitions have different status.

Each tour has its own ranking but on top of all rankings there is also a world ranking. It takes into account all competitions. Needless to say the Majors are the most important and prestigous and gives the most ranking points.

There are so much to talk about around this subject. Let's come back to this after Morro Bay and see if we can't get a master plan together for next year from an open discussion here at the forum.

Michael Dong · Post by **Michael Dong** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:06 am

I still envision something akin to Tennis. A grandslam series open to all countries:

For Example (in no particular order)

US Open
French Open
Italian Open
Swiss Open
UK Open
Swedish Open
German Open
_______ Open

Maybe trimmed down to 3 or 4 events. In each tennis grandslam event, it is implicit that the absolute best in the world will be at each event. Some players love French clay courts, some love the grass of Wimbledon, others kick ass on hardcourts.

Maybe some day for slalom?

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:22 pm

Wow- lets go tighter.

Well it is true in TS there are so many ways to express TS.

In Gs the question is.. How fast is the hill and what are the offsets like?

In TS we have-

-people who would like very tight flat courses
-people who would like very tight tech flat courses
-people who would like very tight flat straight courses
-people who would like no very tight but very fast courses
-people who would like semi tight very fast very technical courses
-people who would like very simple courses
-people who would like very widely spaced straight gates which are hard to find speed
-people who would like to run my courses (me)

I know this all looks like a lot of bickering.... it is.

But

I see it differently. I see it as passion for slalom and slalom's improvement.

Passion drives this sport. If we were impassionate about it....we wouldn't even bother to practice.

I am looking forward to the GS and slalom cross at the Worlds. I am not excited about TS on flat slopes. Frankly, I could hear that all of the courses were going to be 2 foot centers with 5 feet of offset for everything, and it still is worth flying there it to hang out with everyone and exchange ideas.

Hans said-
- You don't see it as a World Championship?
- You don't expect good course setting?
- You don't like the organisation?
- You don't like the athmosphere?

Currently Jack has the largest high talent pool of slalom skaters coming to this contest. So by attendance alone it is a contest which certainly can be considered a World Championship. Even if Jack did not call it the World Championship, and called it the USA championship liklely he wouldn't lose much attendance.

The good course setting issue. There people who like Don O'Shei's courses- Gary Cross for example. Some people liked Jack Smith's course setting of the TS at Catalina (voted best FCR course). I think Jack will set some of the best courses he has ever set this year at Morro Bay. I also think Jack not excited about last years Avila course- but I can't speak for Jack.

Jack's Organization is constantly improving. This year we will have qualifications (and for that to mean something ...it has to be on the same course we are racing). Jack is more open to suggestions - to the point of saying that if someone woud take over the reins that is fine. (sounds about as open to suggestions as anyone could possible be).

The Atmosphere.
Anyone not smiling in the photos from the last two years?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:04 pm

Brady...

"It may be the written word on a message board but "yadda, yadda, yadda" seems
very condescending."

I typed the yadda yadda yadda because we all know about FCR and the money issues and problems of putting one vents etc....it has been discused over and over...the yadda yadda yadda (as opposed to blah blah blah) was meant that I don't feel like typing AGAIn what is for the most part common knowledge. Nothing condescending about it....

I've said this all week. The issue isn't about tight slalom vs. giant slalom (for me at least) a good course is a good course, period....my gripe is I don't tink there is a balance of views or opinions. It seems everyone sees FCR as the only game in town (it is for the most part as a series) and we shouldn't look to change, add or improve upon the FCR series or a completely new series.

The attitude I talk about "over there" is only a few loud mouth bullies that have nothing better to do than infect which for most people is a positive thing. You know this better than I because you have dealt with it longer. Hell until I disagreed with the almighty himself over on the other site I was "good people" but now that I don't share the same views I am "dead" in his words...really mature. THIS is the attitude I am talking about and something I frankly don't want to deal with.

As for the worlds and what a "real" world champion is I've typed that over and over in this thread and msg brd. It should be clear by now

"I just don`t see any offering of
constructive critisizm."

huh? I don't follow you brady....I thin the same of your words. Responding to this post seems liek a waste of my time because I thought this was all clear. it is to most others....

Troy...
Again the issue ISN'T about tight slalom. If FCR set just stupidly tight courses for the worlds...i STILL wouldn't go. I like a good and challenging course. We have both run courses Gilmour has set that range from stupid tight/ech to open GS...they are a ton of fun, right?

I respect jack...and respect what FCR has done...but I don't see why everyone thinks it is above criticsism.

Also why is everyone's answer to that say "put on your own event"? I understand the realities of putting on events...and knowing that is why I would NEVER do it. Even if I doubt I doubt that anyone would enjoy the type of event I would stage. Anyone could criticize it all they want...that doesn't mean I need to listen.

My critique of FCR and such isn't meant even for FCR....rather others thinking of events and were to go with it. FCR is going to do what they do and that is fine. The more options we have out there for slalom the better.

[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-05 10:17 ]

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:31 pm

***************************************

What's the point? I'm done.

[ This Message was edited by: vlad popov on 2003-09-05 10:39 ]

Troy Smart · Post by **Troy Smart** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:26 pm

There's no bitterness there Chris. I just think a couple of you need a little reality check.
The FCR organizers are intelligent, capable men who have there reasons for doing what they do.
It only becomes touchy when you do what you are doing.
You're not "creating a dialog" and I don't think your words on this "inspire" anyone. What you do seem to be doing is coping a superior attitude and whineing.
Show a little respect and understanding or put your own series on.
Was the last FCR race Breckenridge?
I think that was the last one, anyway, I went (my only FCR race), and what I found was a pretty decent tight and GS course. Granted, I don't like my courses quite as tight as you do, but I do like tight slalom and I did like the courses and I think you would have too.
My only complaint is that I spent 150 bucks on entrance fees, then had to BUY a t-shirt that I later discovered was from last year.(what's up with that?).
So anyway, take heart. I believe that tighter is coming to FCR.
Maybe not as tight as you would like but tighter none the less.
I like and respect you (and even Vlad), and consider you to be a friend (Vlad, I consider to be something like an evil superhero).
Friends let each other know when they've got a boog hangin or a piece of mayonaise on there chin.

[ This Message was edited by: Troy Smart on 2003-09-05 07:11 ]

Brady Mitchell · Post by **Brady Mitchell** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:48 am

Chris,
You made a couple of comments in your post that I`d like to comment. Yes, I`ll be copying and pasting but not adding to. Maybe it might be taking your words out of context, but my point is to highlight what "I" perceive as non-constructive jibs rather than constructivr critisizm.

You said...

"I don't get this "FCR is above criticism" attitude. Sure they stepped up and have run a series, lost money, yadda yadda yadda...we know all that."

It may be the written word on a message board but "yadda, yadda, yadda" seems very condescending.

And also you stated...

"However my ideas are out here in the open if they inspire someone to move forward of help them I am glad I could help."

I`ve only garnered from your previous posts that the courses FCR sets don`t inspire you and because there is no regional, state, or country systems of which the worlds are the finality of. I also get the notion that you don`t like the attitudes of some from those that are from the current geological area of the 2003 "Worlds". I also get the impression the you feel the "Worlds" should be TS race.

I am not going to say your points are invalid. I just don`t see any offering of constructive critisizm.

And I probably don`t blame you for not doing so. Why? Remember early 2002 when I was the first to openly critisize the "Worlds of 2002" qualfying format? I then was beleaguered with an onslaught of false accusations of commenting on FCR races of which I never attended. I dare any say I did this (without lying).

Maybe Adam T is right, it`s the teflon shirts I wear...heh heh!! But if you are going to comment at all, counter on what YOU think the courses or qualifying or whatever, should be. Or don`t comment at all.

Just saying "my ideas are out there" don`t cut it.

As for me, I may not have the best people skills but I speak with no forked tongue. I never called myself a racer but I do like to race. Maybe i`m more of a "slalom enthusiast" (sp?).

*********************************************

OK Wesly and Slappy, I`ve just changed into a new T-shirt (fresh from the Dupont factory), let `em rip....

[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-05 00:26 ]

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:54 am

Troy...where does all this bitterness come from, my god you are worst than me and I am a big bitchy baby!

Should we be happy FCR happened? Yes, by all means. Is FCR perfect and above criticism? No, not at all. Can FCR be organized and run differently? Yes, no doubt about it.

I don't get this "FCR is above criticism" attitude. Sure they stepped up and have run a series, lost money, yadda yadda yadda...we know all that. I'm thankful for what they have done and have personally told Jack Smith this many times. However FCR has it's problems and I don't see why creating a dialog about these issues is such a god damn touchy issue.

Do I want to see one or two more major series run along with FCR....yes, it would be great. Am I the one to do it? Nope. However my ideas are out here in the open if they inspire someone to move forward of help them I am glad I could help.

I think you should just chill out Mr. "baby on board"....

Troy Smart · Post by **Troy Smart** » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:48 am

What the hell is wrong with you guys??

You talk about ways to further the sport, what should happen, what it needs, blah, blah, blah, ad nausiem.
Then you talk shit about FCR. (and you definately are talking shit about them, I don't care how you explain that you're not).

FCR is the best thing to happen to the sport.
I would bet you any amount of money that neither one of you would be into slalom AT ALL, if not for FCR and the races they host.
At least be a little appreciative.
A good way to do that would be to shut the F*&k up.
Don't go to the worlds. No one cares, just don't whine about it, (and you are most definately whineing in the most pathetic, condescending way).
I have a couple of bumper stickers I found while cleaning my basement. I'd like to send them to you both. You could stick them to the bottom of your boards.
They say "Baby on board".
P.S. I'm not going to the worlds either. Maybe we could get together and have our own little skate contest.
We could call it the "Mr. Universe" contest or something.
What do you say??

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:24 pm

Too late. I already went there. I beat a Euro Chapm when I was 16!

Me +1000 points . That Euro Chapmp looser- minus 200! For life! I'm the greatest ping pong player in the world!

I ain't playing no loosers who's never beat a Euro Ping Pong Champ! My class is so not in your class, TK...

I can probably beat many champs in many sports I play. Jeff Gordon is gonna loose to some "king of the track" in carts (that he started with a while ago), who's an avarage cart club rider, a track record holder and all that...

Beginnir courses = for beginnirs.

Have fun...if you can.

Terry Kirby · Post by **Terry Kirby** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:20 am

Vlad, I will lambaste you in a Ping Pong match, swear to god I will. Don't even go there.TK

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:52 am

Vlad, if the moral is... have fun. Why aint you coming? I'm there. What could be more fun?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:42 am

Hans,
I agree the "world championships" SHOULD be the most important race of the season. Currently it is the biggest but IMHO Paris was a more important race this season given what I think it woke up.

I have no issue with going to california to race, it is a beautiful state. I have no problem racing on the courses I expect to see (and have been told will be set). I have no problem with ignoring the certian loud mouth bullies that think they are the be all end all of slalom. I like and respect Jack Smith (he knows this) and have no real issue with FCR any longer.

The "world championships" could be held in New York City next week and I probably still wouldn't go.

I don't want to go (there are a few other reasons involving limited travel budgets I want to save to race in Europe next season....starting a new job, etc...)

I am bummed I missed Paris. Sad I missed Gruningen. BUt not sad to miss "the world championships".

Technically they are a "world championships", Jack smith has stepped up to make it happen three years in a row...it has done ALOT for the sport...but in a real sense it is not a real "world championships". I outlines a few posts back what I see as a real world championship...this is not. BUt you know Jack is making it happen and it is as close as we have right now.

Everyone should go be "world champions", more power to you guys.

I wish you luck Hans...I was there last year, I had a great time, I got to see alot of people I call friends, I got to see Jani ride and s-camber I got to see the guy I train with (Noah) race Henry Hester....it was great. But what has changed since then? Not much, I'm a much different (and better ) rider...but I'm also alot more picky as to what I want to do in slalom....maybe next year I will go....who knows, it ain't happening this year.

enjoy Hans...se eyou in Europe next year.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:06 am

My classmate was a pingpong Euro champ. He was a pro when he was 16. We played pong in high school between class sessions. One time we got him to play with us. He lost to every single body. We gave him one of our rackets.

I beat PP Euro Champ!!!

I beat a Euro Champ!!!

I beat the Champ!!!

The moral is...have fun, Corky.

And if you don't get it at this point, it's too late to even start to guess.

All the best,
Vlad.

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:04 am

Hello Hans,

I agree that Californians should have a chance to win a World title somewhere other than California. It will happen as soon as someone else takes over the reigns.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:55 am

Chris, seldom I read long posts where I agree with everything someone says.
Well, I do with yours. A proof that you don't have to have been skating/slaloming
since 1895 to have good comments and ideas.

But... in your last post (and Vlads by the way) I finally found something alarming.
For me the Worlds aought to be the most important race of the year.
If some very good slalomers prefer to put there money on other competitions instead there is something wrong.
When you both say you don't want to go because you don't want to I think it's alarming.
If it was for the money I wouldn't have said anything. But don't want to?
For me that means you're sending a political message out.
But it's not clear what the message is?
- You don't see it as a World Championship?
- You don't expect good course setting?
- You don't like the organisation?
- You don't like the athmosphere?

Good to know to be able to take proper actions.

A World Championship will always favor the home crowd. If on the east coast it will favor you.
If in Europe it will favor Europeans. That is always taken into account.
A Californian winning Worlds in California is less impressing than a Californian doing it
on the east coast or in Europe. And vice versa. So look on the bright side.
You have more to win than the Californians.
That's why I think it's not fare to the Californians to have the Worlds on home turf too often.
They should be given the chance to win Worlds on foreign ground as well.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:34 pm

brian...I agree with you, somewhat. part of being a "racer" is showing up to a race course and dialing in yourself to that course, no matter what it is.

My issue is that everything is so one sided. it isn't about GS or TS...just a mentality.

I've had the most fun over the past 3 years racing in DC. I agree with vlad, though choose my words differently, about racing out west and racing in DC being close to the same.

I am not boycotting the worlds....rather I don't want to go. I know what to expect and i know the attitude I will see (from a small but LOUD and annoying minority) and frankly don't want to deal with it. Beyond that I would rather save that money and race in europe next year.

I was at the worlds last year....what has changed? Not much. I wish Jack and Co. the best with the event.

Given the choice of traveling to california to ride a skateboard or traveling to Europe.....hands down europe wins, no contest. It costs close to the same for me from NYC, Europe is even slightly cheaper.

I'll see you all in DC this month, I think.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:09 pm

Brian, I have no problem with your courses and races. Your GS and Longboard SL have been my favorites.

There is no need for me to set your courses.

There is a need for me to participate in higher-level comps so that my potential is fully utilized. There are none/very small number of these competitions around. The years go by. We don't get younger.

I don't boycot MB. I just don't want to go. What's going on there is not for me. My current skill level is a little beyond that... DC is more fun. It's close and it's practiclaly the same thing. I've been to many DC races and it's the funnest slalom comps around. There is no need to fly coast to coast for a "DC Outlaw" replica with an added non-slalom twist that I reject with every cell of my body.

I'll stay in DC and I'll put on a slalom Cup in DC. With my own money.

Can I borrow your timer?

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:55 pm

I am not one to get involved in this type of posting but I am somewhat confused by this entire course setting soap boxing.

It is my opinion that as a slalom racer you should be able to race on any course on any hill on any surface and on any coastline. An individual’s ability level, finances and desire should be the only limits in race participation. I did not care much for the GS course at the 2002 LaCosta but it was more fun than skating by myself in a parking lot back in DC.

Ride everything; Slalom is such a small part of skateboarding why do you want to create an even smaller niche in slalom by restricting courses.

Vlad, Chris, I appreciate your desire to make slalom a more athletic sport with greater equipment enhancements. I am sorry that you have chosen to protest by not attending the Worlds. I personally believe you are only hurting yourselves. Slalom skateboarding is fun. Its not some high stress professional sport that is so competitive that all of the stoke gets sucked out of it. I really can’t comprehend the animosity that I am hearing on this board. I will say it again…. SLALOM IS FUN…win or lose, tight or GS.

I have been to 4 FCR races and about 15 East Coast races since this whole thing started. I have raced on almost every type of course imaginable. To me the course is just like a basketball court, football field or a racetrack. It is an even playing field for all participants. Courses don’t beat racers, racers beat racers.

OK, OK, Vlad the next Outlaw race you can set the course however you want it. And no one will complain. Except WesE.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:36 pm

What a fun thread.

I think we have to have all typoes of slalom represented... I think this thread exists because tight slalom has been under represented of late.

Last weekend Noah and I ran a super g type course on this fantastic hill he has at the PNC arts center. It got to the point where- I kept trying to squeeze in another run, another run another run- and in the end I ended up trying to pick up cones with my car on the way out as I was already late.

Hans brought up some steps to getting there larger appeal. They are logical and correct IMHO.

I also think we need a little luck.

You could imagine what would happen if Britney Spears said she likes to slalom skateboard in her spare time and attend races- we would be over run overnight. And if George Clooney started skating- well we might get more people racing in the women's class.

What if the son of ABC wide world of sports got into this- was a near pro level and his Dad wanted a place for his kid to shine. I believe Biker Sherlock's dad was/is an NBC executive.

If Lance Armstrong said he cross trains with skateboard slalom and says he bikes to stay in shape for slalom skateboarding...what then? Would Gareth, Chicken, Peggy, and Jack be crushed under huge sales orders from bike shops?

What if the US Government decided to put anti terrorist "look out slopes" in every major US city and they were perfect for slalom? (yeah right)

But I think we do need some LUCK to "stumble" into the limelight. The Internet was one lucky thing.

So where is it going to come from ...who knows?

But when the luck comes- I hope we are ready.

GS courses need to be fast and on better surfaces to show more body angulation- the equipment has to improve A tremendous amount for GS. We need more grip, more stability, more speed.

Super G courses could currently be run.

TS courses need excellent announcing and commentary. Football to some looks like two crowds running around- to others with great announcing they understand and get into what is going on. Television and DVD's + cheap editing software give us the chance to have a football type commentary with drawing on the screen ,form analysis, body positioning, nd close ups of wheel slides and stance changes and all the exciting stuff that people ussually don't see or understand unless they become a participant.

I think hill crusiing is what made skateboarding big in the first place. The fun is still there.

I think we can go tighter and have a smaller race for any specialists show up at a particular venue- provided we have time and the hill.

If Chaput, Brent, Hutson, and Biker show up for a race and there is a big hill available....by all means- try if possible to set up a monster super g - don't miss out on that jaw dropping experience. I was thinking how cool it would be to see some good downhillers charge the PNC arts hill.

If Martin Sweeney, Simon Levene, Clingfilm, Anatoly Matsukevich, and Keith Hollien sign up for a race - damn...try to have them set a ultra tight tech TS and stand back in awe.

But Dual racing has a big cost.....time. Single track allows many races to go on simultaneously with spectators and racers being able to go from one course to another to check in on the slalom 3 ring circus. Less waiting for everyone.

I think one thing that must happen if we are to offer tighter courses in conjunction with other types of racing is that we must either
limit the duals bracket to 8 (perhaps 16 at the biggest contests) ....or come up with another format for duals other than the knock out system which must be run in order.

Brady Mitchell · Post by **Brady Mitchell** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:23 pm

slappy maxwell

Joined: Dec 02, 2002
Posts: 98
From: DC
Posted: 2003-09-03 02:06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brady why do constantly continue to post on slalom sites?

Why do keep posting the 'We need bigger events' stuff when you and everybody else knows you don't race???

********************************************

Aw gee Slappy,
I`d have thought you might be above this.

Have I seen you slalom lately? Does that mean you don`t race?

And because a handful don`t agree with what I say, should I change be like them?

With this kind of thinking, maybe it`s YOU who should be posting on ncdsa.

"Bigger is better and more manly, you don`t skate here so you`re a non-racer" "Me and my friends don`t like you so go away"

Gee, where have I heard that before?

Slappy Maxwell · Post by **Slappy Maxwell** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:06 am

Brady why do constantly continue to post on slalom sites?

Why do keep posting the 'We need bigger events' stuff when you and everybody else knows you don't race???

Don't you think it's a clue when 99% of the replies to your post are negative?

Normal people would start to think 'Gee, maybe this site isn't for me. They don't appreciate my input."

Can't you just read what's here and continue to post only at NCDSA?

Is your ego that large that you have ruin it for everybody else?

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:04 am

Jack: I apologize for the profanity, really. I've got two young kids of my own and well, there are some posts here that I'm glad they won't be reading. I'll make the choice not to use profanity in the future. As an editor for a skateboard slalom racing website, I'm going to make a choice NOT to filter such words and let that be the choice of the participant.

Wes: I'm hearing what your saying about profanity.

Again my apologies for using the "f-word"

*more grinning*

Chris: I enjoy reading your posts even though I may not agree with some of your points, thanks for investing your time here.

Brady: No apologies necessary. Where do you get those teflon coated t-shirts?

We all have opinons and I'll focus on things such as the ISSA and making a dedicated spot for skateboard slalom racing enthusiasts, to me it's sort of a goal that hopefully I'll be able to be a part of.

Duty now for the future.

Brady Mitchell · Post by **Brady Mitchell** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:21 am

For the record...I haven`t had a drink since friday, Haven`t smoked (burned) in over a year.

The comment about your mother was off color and I didn`t think you were so thin skinned so I guess I had the drinking/smoking comment coming.

I think we all can agree that we want to have more and bigger events to participate at. And thats gonna take $$. Are you willing to fork out thou$and$ ??

It`ll probably take corprate $$ to take this to the next step and you have to realize they won`t do that unless they think they can can get thier name out there visible to a target audience. And that`s usually a younger crowd with loose spending habits

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:59 am

Brady ... I don't mean to belittle your opinion (this is a msg brd open for discussion)...but you REALLY need to stop drinking and posting...or smoking or whatever....

Brady Mitchell · Post by **Brady Mitchell** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:55 am

aw, c`mon Cgris, it wasn`t a dis on your mother, it was a graphic statement directed towards you to show just what the other spectrum is on skaters with differant ideas on what skateboarding is. And I bet there are a lot of young guns that veiw the sport much like us geezers.

And honestly, those times I loan my boards out to some young fellars and see that look in thier eyes, I am puzzled why they aren`t catching on to it sooner.

While I agree with you that most that are attracted to our sport, are of our upperly age, that`s not to say that the youngsters won`t get it too. How can they get it? They don`t even know it sxsists?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:43 am

Brady...you assume to much.

We should add jumps and flaming hoops to slalom...that way it will look cool to kids.

Slalom is what it is. If it doesn't look cool to kids so be it. No matter how many bells and whistles we add. If anything park slalom is something kids can relate to right now. The kids that will be into slalom will be into it no matter what.

William Tway · Post by **William Tway** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:40 am

Brady, you scored a 4:20 on your last run.

13, Let's practice soon damn it!!!! Looks like the rain is finally letting up. I hope to get a Radikal soon to replace my Mids and Halfs so we can set some killer STS courses. Let me know when your home course is set and I'll sneak out. (After 8:30pm)

_________________

[ This Message was edited by: william tway on 2003-09-03 03:23 ]

Brady Mitchell · Post by **Brady Mitchell** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:38 am

You have me wrong there Chris. I am also against the skate and destroy mentalty. What I was trying to say was that, and maybe I wasn`t clear on it, was if we want to garner large corporate $$ we need to attract more youth to our sport. And that means things they can relate to....a sport that looks cool.

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