European Championships, Amsterdam, Aug 16-17 2008 [MAIN]

[Flavio Badenes]

I do worry. I think this really sucks.

I will provide him with another one. I do have a few in stock.


Let me know where I have to send it to.

[Martijn Nijs]

This must be a joke, your deck got stolen at the Euro's?!
Ok, it's a free for all!!

I'de like to "talk" to the MF involved!

Martijn

[Martijn Nijs]

Don, could you post a pic of the board in question, it would help to hunt it down!!!!!


Martijn

[Martijn Nijs]

Hmmmm, to be shure, were any sold in the Netherlands?

[Flavio Badenes]

Hmmmm, to be shure, were any sold in the Netherlands?

Not that I know of. I used to sell them in my skate shop back in the 90's and nobody else carried them then or carries them now. The only skater using a Alva board like that one is me, I use it for park riding.

It is a old school pig model. Very wide wood deck, if I am not mistaken this one had Alva printed on the bottom side in large blue letters.

[Donald Campbell]

i traded one with antonio which was not as wide as the pig deck but it had a very long wheelbase,like almost 18".henrik likes to ride those a lot and it had a green print underneath.
i would say it was max 9" wide.

[Jean-Sébastien Dennebouy]

Here are (at last) my pictures for the event !
http://js.d.free.fr/Photos/080816-Amsterdam/

The atmosphere was quite good all the week-end, except some thight moments about the timing system or the planning... That was the good point of this event, it remembered me a lot of GOG outlaw races that we have done since there !

That was also the bad point. I have done the last 2 Euros (Hannover and Grenoble), but never did Amsterdam.
And the point is, at Amsterdam i had the feeling to have entered on the prime event as it was supposed to be at the beginning. (Except for the high skill of all the riders which was the quite impressive - f*** i have to train myself !)

All events are open to criticism, it's always hard to set up everything, i deeply know that as an event organizer in France.

But when i see the organization level of Grenoble and the amount of debates for this event that is much better than Amsterdam...
I have to be fair : I had a good time, took some pictures, skate a little bit, but i prefer to do good outlaws races, and real and solid major/main events. I won't return next year.

[Martijn Nijs]

Here are (at last) my pictures for the event !
http://js.d.free.fr/Photos/080816-Amsterdam/

The atmosphere was quite good all the week-end, except some thight moments about the timing system or the planning... That was the good point of this event, it remembered me a lot of GOG outlaw races that we have done since there !

That was also the bad point. I have done the last 2 Euros (Hannover and Grenoble), but never did Amsterdam.
And the point is, at Amsterdam i had the feeling to have entered on the prime event as it was supposed to be at the beginning. (Except for the high skill of all the riders which was the quite impressive - f*** i have to train myself !)

All events are open to criticism, it's always hard to set up everything, i deeply know that as an event organizer in France.

But when i see the organization level of Grenoble and the amount of debates for this event that is much better than Amsterdam...
I have to be fair : I had a good time, took some pictures, skate a little bit, but i prefer to do good outlaws races, and real and solid major/main events. I won't return next year.

To bad you feel that way Jean!

the royal kingdom of the Netherlands is a flat country so we would have to move the venue to the eastern part of the country or use a bridge in one of the more major city's.....

What I want to say is the following;

For Dutch slalom skateboarding the "Euro's" were a success, the "community" has more than doubled (at least five new racers have made the transition from alpine slalom snowboarding to slalom skateboarding as summer training)!!!!!!!!!
There is a strong desire to train on a regular basis and also, quite a substantial amount of gear has been either bought or ordered!
So, Dutch slalom skateboarding is getting bigger, hopefully we can, as a result, create a bigger hype, gain the support of bigger sponsors and, as a result, organise bigger and better events!


Martijn

[Flavio Badenes]

And adding to what Martijn has very well stated above.

We had 2 and a half months to upgrade the event from a prime events to a main event. That proved to be too short.

However.....

The city has embraced the event for good, they were very happy with what they saw. This means a lot for next year's event.


Another point is that this was the SECOND event we organized here. You guys have been doing it for quite a while now.

And, by the way, you been here or not doesn't change anything. We could couldn't care less.

[Donald Campbell]

something more to add
question:why is it that so many good riders didn't go to grenoble?
answer:because the races are held on flat surface.

[Guillaume Saint-Criq]

Donald, I am really surprised about your hability to speak for all of us !
why are you talking about Grenoble when JS gives his feedback about Amsterdam?
Isn't it something really boring with this kind of "drooling" ?
I am sure JS is totally aware about Flavio works and involvment in this event, and we are sure he will make what he can to make it better next year.
JS can talk about the race : he was there. You did not come in Grenoble as far as I know.
And it's not illegitime to tell Amsterdam was not what we can ALL expect for the major event in Europe.


You don't like flat!
I don't like it much more.
But let people tell by themself what they think or why they did not come !


question :
why racers who WERE in Grenoble this year TELL US they will certainly come back next year?

answer :
Maybe because it was for sure one of the best organised event, for racers and for audience, and we all had fun there.
Or also because the race went smoothly without big timing issues...
Or maybe because organisers, timing table and speakers did not give up in the middle of the first day because they were tired (and they were tired for sure, like every organisers, even more when you have to move ALL your organisation, and not only starting ramps -see pictures-, to an indoor area because of rain)...
Or maybe because racers can have real meal after the race, and not only bananas or nothing...
Or also because what was announced was what happen, with money and free trip for a week for the winners in each categories...

[Guillaume Saint-Criq]

Last point : I am afraid that the only added value to your post is to make a really bad feeling between all of us...

Please respect the work from others...

[Flavio Badenes]

Last point : I am afraid that the only added value to your post is to make a really bad feeling between all of us...

Please respect the work from others...

That is exactly what Jean-Sébastien should have done regarding my work and more his post didn't add value either.
What he tried to do was to brag about himself by putting somebody else down. Bad idea, but coming from him this is not a real surprise isn't it?

Like they say you should not throw rocks at others if you have yourself a glass roof.

[Donald Campbell]

hmmmm
ok
guillaume

no bad blood intended.
i just wrote what a lot of people think about the grenoble venue.
it wasn't even meant to stir shit up,just stating a fact we all know about.
if you want these people to post here,you should call them,most don't post here because they really don't care about forums.
but you will surely see who those people might be looking at other races.
and...
you can keep any promise-this won't help if the venue itself sucks.
what's so complicated in moving a competiton to a slope?


a very simple question with a hopefully very simple answer.

[Martijn Nijs]

To be completely honest,

One of the more negative things that stuck after the "Euro's" in Amsterdam was the input from the pro's that a certain country (?!) always and everywhere complains to and hassles the organisers about the courses etc.
It seems to irritate the majority of racers as I was able to hear.
That seems to me to be a sanctionable offence!

I have had the privilege to race a couple of FIS sanctioned snowboard slalom races and this kind of behaviour would have NEVER been tolerated.

personally I would choose to argue about that kind of behaviour in stead of criticising an organisation that did its best to organise the best race within their competency.
Yes it could have and should have been better but, that's part of the learning curve.
That's a totally different issue than being an ass hole and always complain about just about everything!

Weather or not the Netherlands will host the "Euro's" next year or not, I'm sure that we will organise the best race ever in this country!

[Jean-Sébastien Dennebouy]

That's a totally different issue than being an ass hole and always complain about just about everything

Straight to my heart.

Ok you don't know me, the fact is that i take part of enough events in downhill or slalom skateboard to face a lot of criticism, so i know the feeling.
And i'm the only one to open my mouth, so maybe i'm that kind of guy. But check up my passive, and you will see, really i'm not.

As you see, i was disappointed about Amsterdam, especially compared to all the pollution that float around the french events. And the complete hush about some others...
So understand, it's not to brag myself. But i feel completely at ease being more agressive. Especially when i registered in the event, and as i organize others.
Hey guys, come in France to see our events !!!

The point that matter is that the event and the local scene will continue to grow, so all is perfect ! As you say : with or without me, simple AM rider, that will be the same minus 50€ and some pictures, so let's skate ! And maybe, i will come back next year !

Donald, when will we see you in Grenoble, to be able to accept all the big speechs of yours ?

By now, i'm just really tired of that.

About the very simple answer : yes, i'ts complicated, otherwise be sure that we would do it.

[Guillaume Saint-Criq]

Dear Martin

Note that the "the majority of riders" and the "pros" (so funny quotes) doesn't need you to tell what they think about that "certain country" directly to the interested people, because it seems that this country held many races in the past, move to each one in Europe this year, like they did since years... and also like you did not.

So please talk for yourself, and keep insults out.

[Michel Dupont]

Martijn,

So, let’s see if I got this straight. You think that a rider does not have the right to complain and try to get things right when:
- you are told to ride on the white course and you get the time of the red course on the screen,
- you ride on the white course and you get the red course cone penalty,
- it’s qualification runs and the first riders get a “reaction time” added to their final time when it was announced at the riders meeting that “you leave when you want after the beep”…
Maybe you have forgotten or maybe you just didn’t notice that a lot of riders from different countries asked for reruns, don’t you wonder why? Don't you think they did it because there was a problem with something?
But what do I know, I’m new to slalom and maybe this is just how it should be.
Anyway, that’s what I and Christopher complained about and as you can see it has nothing to do with Flavio’s organisation of the event. His event would have been excellent as a Prime event and then he did the best he could in a short time when it was upgraded to Main.
So just to help out a poor old guy new to slalom, could you please be more explicit when you say that the French riders were assholes bitching about just everything.

[Martijn Nijs]

What I think is:

When you get to race against a representative field of racers you should always be thankful!
When you come to a race you should thank the organisers for taking the trouble to organise it!
When you have a complaint, bring it in a positive way as an improvement for next year.
When you feel compromised in any way, think about how it will have the same influence on other riders before you complain!
When feeling French, please be assured that this is not the only country in the world that deems itself vindicated to have it's own view on how things should be!
When complaining please be aware of the perception others will have, as perception is reality as many will know!

Further more I would like to state that my comments were out of line and inexcusable, sorry for that.....It seems to be a trademark of mine.........................

Martijn

[Martijn Nijs]

I was proud to see such an event take place in the Netherlands and it had a great impact as stated!
But, I'm disappointed at the "level" of the response!
Yes it could have been and should have been better but, and I mean but, it does not deserve the feedback that it was given!!!!!!!

Be positive and tell us what you would like to be changed instead of playing the raped teen groupie!

Martijn

[Martijn Nijs]

As it is, it's probably the most prestigious race ever held in the country!
Please be aware of the fact that we, the Dutch, are proud of that and would gladly
improve on this, what ever the status!

Martijn

[Martijn Nijs]

last thing I want to emphasise is that other governing body's like the FIS, would never, and I mean never, accept the kind of childish complaining as I've seen at the Euro's!

Martijn

[Guillaume Saint-Criq]

Martijn

Please, read the few posts some of us let after the race... it was not about conplaining but only about THANKS to Flavio and all those who help him.
I think all who were there are thanksfull, and like you we proud to see slalom events in new countries, and we are sure it will be even better next year.

But what you ask for Amsterdam should be the same for all other races : be thankfull to the organisers for their work... not always shitting on the same things (flat races), even more when you did not things in a perfect way!

Races facts are races facts : when you come from long distance to a race (even more "Euros"), the first thing you can ask is the results to be accurate (no timing error).
The race has to be fair and true : that s why half of the riders asked for re-runs on the first day.
Note that the second day run perfectly smooth and there were no complain about anything.

Regarding to your FIS statement, does it mean that when race results are wrong, nobody complain?
I never race FIS, but did a lot of other sports before : valid and fair results is a must be!
I can't see any "childish complaining" in what happen in Amsterdam... but maybe you can explain it better

By the way, i was really happy to read your last post and see some apologizes.
Be sure that guys from this certain country (I talk for myself) have fun in Amsterdam meeting people and skateboarding, are thanksfull to organizer, especially to Flavio, and will be glad to come again next year if they are always welcome .

[Donald Campbell]

ok...
i remember the whole dupont family constantly complaining,same thing they did in gothenburg too.gothenburg for example you wanted your registration fee back from henrik...remember?
i remember the dupont family constantly standing in front of the table looking at the screen,whenever they had the chance,i repeat constantly.also very often complaining!
even though i asked them to stay away from the table or move to the side,they came back again and again
i must say that this really helps when you are sitting there trying to control a race and having the very same people all the time in front of your face,arguing,blocking your sight.

when you are new to the circuit as you say here is lesson #1 :
respect what the race director asks you to do,don't show him that he is a stupid idiot by simply ignoring him.
help him by not constantly blocking his sight and help him to focus on the race instead of focussing upon you.

maybe you take your time to understand me...

i know you can also be nice guys....

[Michel Dupont]

Why do you take it personally Donald?
Don't you think a rider has the right to ask for results to be corrected when they are wrong (I'm not talking about a cone counting mistake by cone judges which is understandable and happens now and then)? And what were we “constantly complaining” about Donald? Or “arguing” about? :
- wrong time, wrong cone penalty,
- other lane cone penalty,
- “reaction time” in qualifications, but not for everybody.
Were we the only ones asking for this? How many re-runs did you have? Did you get the right people to the finals? And we were for sure not the only ones checking that the person in charge got the right cone penalty on the screen.
If you think we were “constantly complaining” about everything does that mean we should not ask for results to be correct?
Asking for results to be corrected is not equal to “constantly complaining”. Give us one more thing we in your words were “constantly complaining” about. Nothing. Because there was nothing else to complain about.
I also remember that not at one moment did we stand alone in front of the screen, but we were about the only ones at who you told to get away. Some other people standing “in your way” didn’t seem to bother you much. If something bothers you, then treat everybody the same way.
What does Gothenburg have to do with Amsterdam? What registration fee did we ask back for in Gothenburg? We did think it was a bit too much to ask for juniors to pay double entry fee, that is 160 € (more than PROs!), if they wanted to also race with the AMs, and then cancel their finals early instead of waiting until the end of the competition to be sure there really was no time to have them do to bad weather or other important delays. We were more talking for the others that did not race with the amateurs than for ourselves. Only means that we think that if juniors pay as much as AMs then they should be treated the same way. If juniors are not as important as AMs(which is the way it should be) then their entry fee should not be the same (which is also the way it should be and until now has been elsewhere). Double entry fee also lead to the fact that really good juniors (and good enough amateurs to maybe race the AM finals) like Nico from Switzerland or Olle from Sweden didn’t have enough money to also race with the amateurs.

No hard feelings Donald, we also know you can sometimes be a nice guy, like you were in Dusseldorf when we first met you.

[Jean-Sébastien Dennebouy]

Flavio, Donald, who were the Race Director at Amsterdam ?

[Flavio Badenes]

Guys,

I know it has not been a perfect contest.

I also know that a lot people were happy with it too.

I can also understand people complaining at that time. You were right, you had the right to complain and I do believe your complains were taken into consideration and fixed too.

I just do not understand why bringing it up all over again.

It has been talked about. I am working at next year's contest. A lot was learned a lot will be improved.

I am also working on a few other skateboarding projects.

So....

I will concentrate on those projects and my dearest contest.

I just ask you to stop it here and lets go on from here.

What is the point of coming to this forum and writing:

I not going to Amsterdam next year.

What is the point of bring that up here? Just tell me what is the point of doing it? Then you get reactions like these in this forum. Don't you think this sucks??? This bla bla bla...man it sucks big time.

Like I said I will stop it here.

I do hope that next time we see each other in France, where I do hope to go next year, Germany or even Hell that we can talk to each other in a appropriated way and more important than anything else that we go SKATEBOARDING !!!!!!!!!